Практика Shadowing: What's being done to save the Amazon rainforest? - What in the World podcast, BBC World Service - Изучайте разговорный английский с YouTube

It is really hard to wrap your head around just how big it is.

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It is really hard to wrap your head around just how big it is.

So I looked it up. 6000000km², doesn't mean anything to me - three Mexicos, that is a massive amount of forest and home to so many beautiful species of animals.

What I wish people knew about the Amazon is how important it is for all of us, regardless of where we are.

Hello, it's Hannah here, and welcome to What in the World, your podcast for the stories that get people talking from the BBC World Service.

When you picture the Amazon, you probably think of this - rich biodiversity, billions of trees, creatures you can't find anywhere else on Earth.

But some parts of it are a bit more like this.

And this year's big climate summit, Cop30 is taking place in Belém, in part of the Amazon in Brazil, and it has put the global spotlight back on the world's largest rainforest.

So we have teamed up with The Climate Question, the BBC's go to podcast for everything climate related, to understand how important the Amazon is to our planet and what's being done to save it.

And here with me in the studio is Graihagh Jackson, who hosts the Climate Question. Hey welcome back.

Thanks so much for having me.

So can you give our listeners an idea of just how big the Amazon is?

You say it's the largest tropical rainforest in the world, it is really hard to wrap your head around just how big it is.

So I looked it up. 6000000km², doesn't mean anything to me - three Mexicos, that does mean something to me.

That is a massive amount of forest and a massive amount of trees, and home to so many beautiful species of animals, but it's also home to so many people, and I really had no idea until I started looking into this.

I've got here 47 million people live in the Amazon, of which two million are indigenous.

So it's hugely important for people that live there, but also for the world, as I'm sure we're getting into.

When we talk about the Amazon, we often really focus on Brazil.

And the reason for that is because around 59/60% of the Amazon is in Brazil.

So what they do really matters for the Amazon as a whole.

And I read that the Amazon has 390 billion trees.

Yeah, I always like to picture the poor person who has to go out and count all those trees.

I mean, they don't do that. They take it, obviously, take a data set, they work out how many and then they extract by satellite.

But it is mind boggling how many trees there are there.

I feel really lucky to have visited part of the Amazon.

It was in Peru and while I was there we saw these amazing pink river dolphins.

They were kind of mottled grey pink and apparently they get pinker as they get older.

The Amazon is so important for biodiversity.

It's the most biodiverse place on Earth, and we've been hearing from someone who is passionate about the Amazon Dr Erika Berenguer, who's a senior researcher at Oxford University and who's also from Brazil.

The most striking thing about the Amazon, when you are there, it's how all your senses get really overwhelmed.

Of course, your eyes, because the amount of life that is there, there's always insects buzzing around, birds crossing your paths, and so, so, so many trees of different shades of green that keep glinting under the sun.

Just in terms of species of trees.

We still don't know how many there are.

Estimates are that across the whole Amazon basin, which occupies nine different countries, there are about 16000 species of trees and just 11000 has been described by scientists like myself.

And in the middle of all these unknowns, there might be, for example, some plants that might be useful for different reasons.

They might be useful for medicine, cosmetics.

What I wish people knew about the Amazon is how important it is for all of us, regardless of where we are.

The Amazon generates so much rainfall that it irrigates fields even in Texas, or as south as the La Plata Basin in Argentina and Uruguay.

The Amazon store so much carbon in its trees that if it was to be completely deforested and then burnt, all the carbon would go to the atmosphere as CO2 and would be equivalent to 15 to 20 years of global greenhouse gas emissions - certainly make us fail to keep us below the 1.5 degree of temperature increase since industrial times.

Graihagh, as well as the amazing biodiversity that we have just heard about, why else is the Amazon important? It's important for everybody.

I'll talk about the region first though, because it's really interesting.

So the Amazon - well, you've been, what does it feel like when you walk around. What's the climate like?

It's sticky.

It's wet, it's humid and it's hot. So what's happening?

The sun's shining down and that's causing all the water to evaporate and then also evapotranspiration if it's coming from the leaves.

Yes, I think I was evaporating too.

And that goes all up into the sky.

And you can think of it as like flying rivers going all across the continent, which then come down as rain elsewhere as far as Argentina.

And that's really important for agriculture, I think crops, but also places like Brazil are really highly reliant on hydropower, right?

And you've got to have that rain in order to have that hydropower.

So it's really important for the local weather, the region's weather.

But globally it's so important.

And that's because it puts the brakes on climate change. Now why is that?

So climate change - we talk about this key planet warming gas, carbon dioxide.

It's released when we drive our petrol cars or when we burn coal to heat our homes or gas, whatever.

Those are all key drivers of climate change.

Now, what trees do is they absorb that carbon dioxide.

They suck it all in to put it in a very basic way and they use it to create energy.

And it gets stored in the branches and the leaves in the soil.

And that means that CO2 is no longer in our atmosphere, acting as a blanket and trapping all that heat, so effectively without nature, without places like the Amazon, we would be experiencing a much hotter world as a result.

The Amazon also has lots of really valuable resources, right?

Yeah. So many. I really had no idea.

I mean, I'd heard about the gold, obviously timber, given the number of trees there, but there's also rubber and coffee and loads of medicine.

So for instance, quinine comes from the bark of a tree and quinine was used to treat people for malaria for like 300 years before synthetic versions were created.

So there's lots of things there. Fishing is also really important there.

Diamonds. I'm just looking to see if you're wearing any diamonds.

You are. Were they from the Amazon, who knows?

But the other - that's sort of like the interesting thing about the Amazon, it's so important for us globally and that it helps prevent or puts the brakes on climate change and affects our weather.

But it's also a huge source of income. And lots of people indeed want to develop the Amazon for exactly that reason.

I mentioned several million people are living in the Amazon, and they see it as a source of income, a way to develop and be lifted out of poverty.

Scientists are now warning that the Amazon is actually at risk of disappearing.

Yeah, so there are a number of different reasons for that.

So the number one biggest driver of tropical deforestation in the world is cattle ranching.

So that's beef products.

It's our beef burgers but it's also leather for our shoes, right?

So that's a huge driver of tropical deforestation around the world.

And I don't think - it often gets overlooked quite often, so I think that's really important.

There's also a lot of illegal activity, especially in the Amazon going on.

So illegal mining, illegal logging, it's pretty hard to enforce any sort of protections because it's so wild, big and remote.

But double whammy is because climate change is increasing temperatures and reducing rainfall as well in the Amazon, you've got a double effect.

So deforestation is causing that.

And climate change on top of that is causing that.

And what that means is, you know, you've said you've been in the rainforest.

You will remember that the floor is covered in leaf litter, right?

Lots of leaves. And that is typically very wet.

But now the Amazon is drier, it acts like tinder.

And that means fire can spread so quickly and so easily in the Amazon in a way that it hasn't been able to.

So I was looking at some data between 2001 and 2023, and fires in the Amazon region are now burning at least twice as much as they were in the early noughties.

Last year was a particularly bad year, a record breaking year in 2024.

So we've heard how important the Amazon is for all of these different reasons and that it's at risk.

What's being done to try to protect it?

So back in 2021, there was a global agreement.

More than 100 world leaders signed up to end deforestation by 2030.

And there were several countries in the Amazon that signed up to that pledge.

So Peru, Brazil, Ecuador, Guyana, Suriname, they all pledged, signed that pledge.

But there are a few countries I didn't mention there that do have parts of the Amazon in.

And so Colombia, Bolivia, French Guiana, Venezuela, those countries did not sign up to it. And I was looking as to why.

And Venezuela and Bolivia have both said that they want to develop the forest.

And this is a really sort of big contention.

We see a lot of people living in the Amazon live below the poverty line, right? They want to develop, they want to have access to good healthcare.

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And a way to make money is to chop down the trees and sell it.

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So there is this really difficult line to tread between protecting the forest, but also protecting the people that live within it.

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To reduce the forest fires that we talked about earlier, that's a really big global issue, because that means we have to get a handle on our emissions.

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The only way to stop those forest fires is not only to stop emitting, but it's also to take some carbon dioxide out of the sky to create a cooler planet.

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And the sort of argument there is over who pays for that, who does that, right?

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And historically, it's been the rich Western countries that have done most of the carbon polluting.

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And the argument goes from countries like Brazil 'well, you need to pay.

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You need to pay us to protect this vital resource, the Amazon.

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But you also need to pay us damages that have been caused as a result'.

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And so that's why in the last few years, these huge climate summits, they've been really focused on finance and money, and how that money is distributed among everyone in the world.

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Money is one of the things that's talked about every year at the Cop, the International Summit on Climate Change, and this year it's going to be held in the Amazon for the first time, with a particular focus on the Amazon.

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Are there going to be any agreements made in order to protect the Amazon?

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What can we expect from this conference?

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Yeah, so there's been a lot of talk of something called the TFFF, which is the Tropical Forests Forever facility.

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This is a money mechanism basically, and it's set to launch at Cop30. It's led by Brazil.

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And it basically seeks to compensate countries and help them preserve the forest. But the interesting thing about it is that 20% of that money will go to indigenous peoples who, you know, have a really strong track record of protecting the forest, the biodiversity and the carbon that's stored within it.

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But it is worth saying that more widely this is ten years on since the biggest climate and most ambitious actually climate agreement we've ever had in Paris, which agreed to sort of ideally keep temperatures to 1.5 degrees warmer than pre-industrial times.

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That is so important for a place like the Amazon, as we discussed, because if we want to protect it, if we want to reduce the forest fires, we do need to reduce our emissions.

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So that really is on all of us, isn't it? Graihagh.

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Thanks so much. Thank you. That's it from us.

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But if you want to find out more about Cop, do make sure you listen to The climate question.

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You can find it wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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And it's also right here on YouTube.

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Make sure you check out their brand new playlist.

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If you have thoughts on this or any other episode, drop us a line in the comments below. We're also on WhatsApp.

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We're on Instagram at @bbcwhatintheworld - I'm Hannah.

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This is What in the world from the BBC World Service.

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And we'll see you next time.

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