Shadowing-Übung: “I’ve seen how governments suppress freedom” | Telegram founder Pavel Durov at Oslo Freedom Forum - Englisch Sprechen Lernen mit Video

Laden...
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Thank you.
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Passengers of the Titanic actually didn't want to leave the ship for almost two hours after it hit the iceberg.
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People thought the Titanic was unsinkable.
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Lifeboats left half empty.
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Only in the last half an hour people started to panic, but by that time it was already too late.
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Not enough lifeboats, nowhere to hide, nowhere to run.
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I came here today to tell you that we find ourselves in a similar predicament, in a similar situation.
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Our ship has already hit the iceberg.
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we have already started to sink without even realizing it.
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And I'm talking about the ship of our personal freedoms.
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Personal freedoms have been eroded everywhere in the world, almost without exception.
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I know this from personal experience.
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I've been running large social media platforms for almost 20 years.
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Actually, exactly 20 years.
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And I witnessed first-hand which methods governments use to suppress our freedoms and to take away our basic rights.
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I've seen all the tricks, the PR tricks, the legal tricks,
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the political tricks, the manipulations, the official excuses.
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I've become an expert at this.
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And the thing that bothers me most today is that some of the same tricks that have been employed
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by authoritarian regimes in places like Russia or China and Iran are now being also used in some Western countries.
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But maybe I'm exaggerating things, right?
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Let's look at the facts.
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Thousands of people are getting arrested every year in the United Kingdom for social media posts.
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You say something politically incorrect online, you may end up being fined or spend some time in prison.
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In Germany, the largest country in the European Union,
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people get arrested and persecuted for insulting politicians online.
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thousands of people every year.
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You call a politician a pig or a thief online, and you can serve up to three years in prison.
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So now people are afraid to use their real identities.
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People stop using their real names when they make comments online.
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And the European Commission is pushing for a new measure,
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a measure to require that all social media users present their IDs before they can access social media sites.
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Their official justification is child protection.
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They want to ban social media services for everybody under 16,
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and for that, they need people to verify their age by presenting their ID.
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But what will happen if social media sites are banned for teenagers?
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Will it bring harm or good?
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Actually, we know the answer to this question.
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Why?
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Because it has already been tried.
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This experiment has already been conducted, it has been carried on.
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In Russia, so Russia banned Telegram, the largest social media platform at the time,
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for all of its citizens, because we refused to comply with their demands for mass surveillance and censorship.
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However, 95% of Russian teenagers still use Telegram every month.
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How?
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They use VPNs.
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They bypass the entire thing.
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And there's very little you can do with VPNs.
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Russia is trying very hard.
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They have invested billions in trying to fight VPNs.
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They're banning hundreds of VPNs every month, using IP addresses and traffic patterns.
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They even installed surveillance hardware into every data center of every Internet provider in the country,
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trying to monitor all the traffic and trying to prevent people from using VPNs.
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And they failed.
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Despite all this effort, they failed.
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The majority of the population of Russia still uses Telegram.
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The majority of the population of Iran still uses Telegram as well.
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Despite the fact that Iran has been blocking Telegram for all of its citizens since 2018.
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So we know exactly what happens when you ban social media for part of your population.
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they just switch to VPN.
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The problem is, once we force teenagers and children to use VPNs, all kind of nasty, illegal,
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fringe content gets unlocked for them.
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Certain websites that have been banned years ago all of a sudden become available again.
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will the children end up being in a larger danger than they're in now?
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And you can ask yourself, so if this policy is destined to fail, and obviously we see how it played out in other countries,
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why is the European Commission and the United Kingdom and Australia and Canada and some other countries are pushing with this measure? Is it incompetence?
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Maybe.
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But the British government seems to have given an answer to this question.
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Publicly, they promoted the Online Safety Act as a set of laws to protect children,
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to force people to verify their age in order to access social media.
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They needed to protect children.
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Privately, though, they offered a different explanation.
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In their submission to the High Court of England published last year,
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the British government said that the principal part of the Online Safety Act had nothing to do with protecting children.
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Instead, they said, and I quote,
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the main part of the Online Safety Act was aimed at capturing large platforms with significant influence over public discourse.
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Now, let's think about it.
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They used protection of children as a pretext, where in fact, in fact,
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they wanted more control over political speech online.
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And this is very sad,
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because protecting children is exactly the same justification that has been used in countless other cases by authoritarian regimes
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over the course of the last century.
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Why?
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Because once somebody says, child protection, all of a sudden it triggers very ancient,
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very deep parts of our brain.
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Who would be against protecting children?
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Everybody is scared for the future of their offspring.
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Once somebody says, we need to protect the children, they're in danger, it completely bypasses logic,
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it bypasses debate, it bypasses rationality.
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All of a sudden people are ready to give up everything,
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and authoritarian regimes were able to smuggle all kinds of repressive legislation under the guise of protecting children.
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Now, the same justification is being used by the European Commission the European Commission to push for a set of surveillance laws,
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the so-called chat control, the chat control initiative.
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For five years, the European Commission has been trying to force a new set of laws
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that would require every messaging app to implement a backdoor to their encryption so that everything that we share online,
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every private message, every private photo that we sent using apps like Telegram or WhatsApp or any other,
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would be automatically monitored.
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And if the system detects that we are trying to do something illegal, it alerts the authorities.
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The justification here again is child protection.
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And this has been tried on the European level and also on the national level.
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The French government has been trying to pass a similar law that would basically mandate mass surveillance on the national level.
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The French Senate has approved this law.
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It got stuck on the level of the National Assembly,
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but the French Senate thought it was a reasonable and a good idea to enact mass surveillance.
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So this shows how dangerous it is and how close we are,
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even here in Europe, to a stage where we end up being monitored.
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Now, the French used slightly different justification.
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They said, we need to combat crime.
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We need to do something about terrorism.
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We need to do something about drug trafficking.
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And that's why we need to spy on you.
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For your own protection, you have to give up your essential right to privacy.
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And this again has been tried countless times in the history of humanity, where we, or different nations throughout history,
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have been offered an exchange.
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Give up some of your essential liberty in exchange for some temporary safety.
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And this deal, this offer, is always a scam, and it always turned out to be a scam.
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It was Benjamin Franklin who said,
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those who are willing to give up their essential liberty for some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. And we see that.
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We see that in countless places.
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Ask people living in Russia or living in Iran whether they feel safer today than they felt 10-15 years ago.
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They definitely lost a lot of their freedoms in the last decade or two.
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Have they gained any safety?
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I doubt that.
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Once you allow law enforcement, police, have access to your messages.
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You will not prevent crime.
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The criminals will be the first to switch on to other tools, more secure.
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They will use VPNs, they will use private secret apps.
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They can even vibe code their own encrypted messaging app now in the age of AI.
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The criminals will be fine.
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It will be the law-abiding citizens who will be put in danger.
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It will be the ordinary people that will have their privacy taken away from them.
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Not the criminals.
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Well, how do I know that?
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Maybe I'm inventing things.
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Again, from my experience in Russia, 15 years ago, when I was still running VK, the largest social network in Russia at the time,
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we started to receive weird data requests from the Russian police.
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Back then, VK actually disclosed, in some cases, contents of private messages.
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Unlike Telegram today, which doesn't disclose it ever, VK, back in the day, did that, provided there was an official justification.
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And we started to notice something weird.
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Something was off about this data request coming from the Russian police.
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we realized that the people who were included in these investigations had nothing to do with the crimes that were described there.
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So we started to investigate the investigators.
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And we came to a conclusion, pretty fast, that the police was corrupt.
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They were trying to access private messages of innocent people in order to then blackmail them
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and sell their private data to criminals.
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They used it for harassment and other things.
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So you could say, okay, you had this traumatizing experience in Russia,
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but surely nothing of the kind can happen in the civilized West.
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Well, I have bad news for you.
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Last year, a French tax official was caught stealing the financial data
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of people who held large amounts of crypto assets and other wealth.
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So, a French tax bureaucrat was selling personal financial data of French citizens to criminals.
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Now, as a result of this leak and countless other leaks from French government systems,
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you have a catastrophic rise in the number of kidnappings in France.
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Just in the first three months of 2026, you have over 40 victims of kidnappings in France.
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People getting tortured, harmed, harassed,
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humiliated, all because the government wanted too much data and failed to protect it.
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And now they want more of the data.
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The situation is already catastrophic as it is, but they don't want to stop there.
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They also want to access your personal messages, they want to access ideas of everybody who's using social media.
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Imagine the damage it can inflict if they get what they want.
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Now, this is already completely insane and unbelievable.
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But there is a third method, a third issue.
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A trick that has been used by authoritarians for decades.
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And now it is being increasingly exported from the East to the West.
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I'm talking about selective enforcement of laws.
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Now, the way it works is pretty straightforward.
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First, you need to introduce a large number of laws.
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You need to overburden a certain industry with excessive, mutually exclusive, contradictory regulation.
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As a result, you make compliance impossible.
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Now you can treat every entrepreneur, every CEO, every business owner in this country,
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in a certain industry, as a criminal.
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But then the government carefully starts to choose who to persecute.
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If the business owner is loyal, if it complies with the moral or unlawful demands from the government,
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gives certain political favors, then the law enforcement system and the judicial system look the other way.
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They don't do anything.
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But if the business owner decides to stand up for the constitutional rights of his or her fellow citizens,
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if they refuse to cave in to political demands from the authoritarian government,
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then the persecution and the enforcement of laws comes in full.
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And when somebody starts to criticize the government for doing that, the eternal, perennial response is,
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we're just enforcing the law.
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You don't want to live in a country which is lawless.
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We're just enforcing the laws.
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I personally experienced that in my days in Russia.
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I had a criminal investigation against me in 2013.
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I believe I have a criminal investigation against me in Russia today.
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But interestingly, this is something that we see increasingly in the West as well.
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And you can say, there is no way it can happen.
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It's something from the world of the barbaric East.
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Well, I have bad news.
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Elon Musk said that the European Commission offered him a secret deal where they demanded that he conducts censorship
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of certain political narratives on his platform,
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and in exchange the European Commission promised him not to enforce certain fines and laws on his company.
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Elon Musk said that he refused that offer.
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But most other platforms accepted it.
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Then Elon's company was hit by a 120 million euro fine from the European Commission for seemingly unrelated issues,
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something that has to do with transparency.
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We can doubt the words of Elon Musk, maybe he was inventing things, right?
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But unfortunately, his words are at least indirectly confirmed by the results of the investigation conducted by the US Congress.
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The US Congress published emails between the European Commission officials and managers of large social media platforms during the pandemic.
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These emails included attempts to pressure all these networks to silence political narratives and accounts
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that were inconvenient for the European Commission at that time.
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So, you had Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and others.
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Ban, censor, downrank, shadow ban,
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demote, accounts and narratives that spread inconvenient truths or inconvenient narratives.
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The official justification for that was that the European Commission was trying to combat misinformation and conspiracy theories during the pandemic.
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Well, now years after, it seems that many of those so-called conspiracy theories turned out to be at least partially true,
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and in any case, were worthy of a public debate.
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Now, everything from the artificial origins of COVID
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to the limited nature of the anti-COVID measures to the immense harm done to the young generation by school closures,
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all of it once considered conspiracy theories,
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is now becoming part of the mainstream debate and the mainstream view of what happened during COVID.
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So those narratives were silenced not because they were untrue.
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They were silenced because they were inconvenient by those people in power.
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And if this is not political censorship, I don't know what is.
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Now, I myself have been personally exposed to selective enforcement of laws,
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also in Europe, not just in Russia.
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And I talked about it last year on this stage,
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after I was arrested in Paris for reasons that are still unclear in 2024,
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I got offered a secret deal by the head of the French intelligence who asked me to silence certain political voices.
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Well, I refused that deal, and I'm still under this investigation, and still facing many years in prison.
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But I don't want to talk about this today.
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I want to conclude by telling you a related story,
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Something that happened during these days when I was detained in Paris
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and I was spending a few days in this police custody, basically a jail cell.
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I was interrogated for almost three days, and there was this translator that was helping us.
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He was appointed by the judge.
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And after three days of translating, during one of these pauses between sessions,
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the translator was sitting there seemingly shocked.
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Perhaps she was shocked by the selective and political nature of the charges brought against me.
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But she looked at me, she looked at the police officers present and she said,
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I left the Soviet Union in the 80s because I wanted to escape an environment where my freedoms are limited.
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I wanted to escape an environment where human rights are disrespected.
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But now, after witnessing what I've witnessed,
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I feel like the Soviet Union is catching up with me.
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I feel like I'm back in the Soviet Union.
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In that room in Paris,
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that woman who escaped the Soviet Union felt she's back in the Soviet Union.
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And of course, perhaps she was being overdramatic, perhaps she was exaggerating things.
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But if we let the current trends continue, we can end up in a place much worse than the Soviet Union of the 80s.
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You know, when my parents sent each other letters
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or sent telegrams to their relatives in the Soviet Union of the late 80s,
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sometimes they expressed hope that the KGB would not open the letters,
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that the KGB would not have enough resources to read everything that they have to write.
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After all, there was a human limit to surveillance.
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There were only so many KGB officers, only so many hours in the workday, only so many letters they could open.
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Now we don't have this luxury.
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In the world of AI, if we give up our right to privacy,
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you can be certain that every message that you send will be monitored, will be analyzed, every draft,
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every thought, every idea will be scored, every relationship will be mapped.
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The future can become much darker and more dystopian than the Soviet Union of the 80s.
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So we don't have this luxury that the passengers of the Titanic had.
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We cannot afford to have this ship sunk.
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See, there is nowhere to escape.
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In the past, dissidents from authoritarian countries could flee to the West.
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But if the current trajectory continues, in a decade or two from now,
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they will have a hard time trying to understand whether they have already left their repressive homeland,
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or they are just entering another open-air prison.
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Now, I hope it will not come to that.
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But we need to realize the gravity of the situation.
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We need to start acting.
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We don't have a backup plan.
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We don't have lifeboats.
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There is no second West.
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There is no backup civilization.
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For decades or centuries, the West has been a guiding star for everybody who loved freedom, and we need to preserve that.
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If the ship of Western freedom sinks, the rest of the world is likely to follow.
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We will lose freedoms everywhere.
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So we cannot let this happen.
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We cannot let this ship sink.
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The only way forward is to fix this ship.
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Let's do that.
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Thank you very much.

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