Shadowing-Übung: Why Success Still Feels Empty | Jane Marie Chen, Founder of Embrace - Englisch Sprechen Lernen mit Video

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There's this pressure that creates healthy drive.

And then there's the point where it tips into being unhealthy drive.

What would it look like if you went on a healing journey of your own?

To even just like consider it is something that I think most people have never done.

It didn't matter how many degrees I got or accolades I want or babies I saved.

There was always this void that nothing could fill.

And so it was that sense of like not enoughness.

Trauma isn't just something that lives in your past.

It's actually something that rewires your brain and your nervous system such that you bring the past into the present.

I'm Sheree.

I'm Jean.

And we're the Tiger Sisters.

We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters.

And we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy.

Hi, Tiger fam.

Welcome to Tiger Sisters Director's Cut episode.

This is our director's cut episode where we're revisiting some of our favorite conversations

and we're bringing you the best of the best and some of our new takeaways, which after, you know, several months removed from the original conversation, we have new thoughts.

This week, we are revisiting our conversation with Jane Marie Chen, which Sheree and I both believe is one of the most important conversations that we've ever filmed.

Jane Marie Chen was the CEO and founder of Embrace, which is a company whose goal was to save 1 million babies around the world through this revolutionary product

that they designed to help save preemie babies in developing countries.

And she's the author of Like a Wave We Break, which is her memoir as she details her experiences growing up in a traumatic environment, how she grew out of that,

and how she's actually created her own healing journey, which she shared with us very candidly on our conversation.

what i loved about this conversation with jane marie chen is

that on the outside you can see all the accolades

and the linkedin resume features she's gone to harvard she's gone

to stanford she's the ceo of this non -profit an incredible

company yeah she was like honored by president barack obama yeah the list goes on it looks absolutely incredible

because it is but she also details the sacrifice

and what it took on her mental health on her relationships to get to where she was.

And this conversation really peels back the layers of perfectionism, of using achievement as a coping mechanism,

which maybe you and I and maybe some of our listeners know a little bit about

and can really relate and have so many good takeaways from this conversation.

Yeah, I think if you identify as an overachiever in any way, this episode is really important to watch

because Jane goes through her whole healing journey and it's not

that everyone necessarily needs to do their own healing journey

but just watching her talk about hers is almost like a

proxy it's like a ghost way of like going through it

yourself like very very lightly without having to fully examine yourself

it's really helpful to watch her fully examine herself well i

think it's a kicking off point right it she brings up

so many good anecdotes so many good stories

and a lot of i think like research and books

and mentors she she cites where you're like oh maybe I should think about

that or oh am I burying myself in work in career in all these different aspects to avoid

or escape something that's deeper within so I think it's just really good fodder so

that you start using it as a way to hold up

a mirror to yourself as like do I do some of these things

or do I have any of these thought patterns

that maybe I should introspect and work on yeah yeah oh such a good way of putting it.

So, okay, before we give everything away, we'll dive into the episode.

So what's going to happen is we'll play the episode

so you guys can watch the interview

and then stick around until the very end because Shereen

and I have more thoughts that we're going to reflect on and share with you in the special director's cut episode.

So let's get into it.

If you're watching this episode and you aren't already subscribed, what are you doing?

Hit the subscribe button.

It only takes three seconds.

And once you subscribe, you get notified whenever a new episode of Tiger Sisters drops.

This is one of the hardest conversations we've ever had on Tiger Sisters

because it's something that we carry but we rarely talk about.

Childhood trauma, forgiveness, and the process of healing from people who raised us.

If you've ever wondered how to forgive your parents, this episode might change the way you see them and yourself.

Jane Marie Chen has a resume that is untouchable.

Harvard, Stanford, non -profit founder that saved over a million babies, honored by President and Obama, the list goes on.

Her memoir, Like a Wave We Break, shares about what happens when achievement is a coping mechanism.

It's about what it takes to forgive the people who broke you

when they're also the people that made you and loved you.

Trigger warning, we talk about abuse and self -harm in this episode.

And if you're struggling, please know that you're not alone.

We've linked helplines and resources in the description.

jane marie chen welcome to the tiger sisters podcast yay thank you for having me yeah

so jane we're gonna dive right in to our questions sure

so in your memoir you describe moments of physical

and verbal abuse like being hit by a belt being slapped

so hard that your glasses flew off many things

that immigrant children experience

but rarely talk about how did you find the courage to not just talk about it

but to write about it in such a public way

hmm well i think i really wanted to share the journey

as a way to help anyone else who has been through similar experiences

and that meant sharing the whole journey

and the hardest part of the journey the hardest parts of the journey um

and what had happened in my upbringing with regards to physical abuse

which i didn't even recognize as abuse until probably my late 30s So it was a wake up call to me.

And as I started sharing my story, I met so many others who had had similar experiences.

And that's what gave me the courage to do this.

It was in order to help other people and extend a lifeline to others who are struggling with the same issues.

You know, the book begins 10 years into the journey of my company,

Embrace, which builds low -cost baby incubators for preemies in developing countries.

It was a technology that my team and I invented at Stanford back in 2008, and we turned it into a company, and then I moved to India.

And we made a goal to save a million babies with our incubators.

And I basically made that mission my life.

So I gave my soul to this work.

And in that process, you know, I experienced so many setbacks and challenges and really was burned out,

you know, at the end of this 10 year period when we faced a setback that was so big, we had to shut down the company.

And at that point, I was just absolutely devastated.

You know, I felt like a complete failure.

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And so I decided to go on a healing journey.

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And I packed up a surfboard, a suitcase.

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I bought a one -way ticket to Indonesia.

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And I threw myself into healing, you know, with the same intensity I'd once poured into building my company.

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And so as I went through this journey, I finally connected the dots that feeling

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so powerless through my childhood that's what had given me the

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drive right the fuel to help the most powerless people in the world

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but there was a shadow side of that in

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that it also drove me to work to really unhealthy levels at the expense of my own mental health

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and well -being i mean i just want to say

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that i respect and like venerate what you have done

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so much to like put yourself out there in such a true

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and open way and like really be vulnerable about your past like i just know you are helping

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so many people out there and that's also why we were really really excited

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and looking forward to this conversation

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because i don't think i've ever like read a book

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that had that level of like honesty and exploring these topics like yours

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and it's important it's important to to talk about it to like put it down on paper

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and like put it into words otherwise yeah otherwise it doesn't

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get addressed before recording this episode i was doing some reflecting and i think this is the most important conversation

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that we're going to have on tiger sisters because of course there's

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so many podcasts out there that talks about the business world

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and career and all these things to like up level

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but like once you're there and reflecting on how you got there

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and often the very painful ways to do

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that i'm like this is a conversation

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that i don't think anyone else is having

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and i think it starts with you sharing

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so vulnerably in your book yeah thank you guys

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and i actually see this particularly with high achievers you know

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and we think people yeah right

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and we think of people with perfect resumes they've got it all together

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but often people with these like perfect looking outsides come from from histories of trauma, right?

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And achievement becomes a coping mechanism.

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Achievement becomes a trauma response because we feel like we're not enough, right?

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And so we feel like we have to do more and be more, improve more.

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And we completely burn out in the process.

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And I see this particularly with entrepreneurs, with social entrepreneurs, but with also just a number of the high achieving people that I'm surrounded by,

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but we live in a culture in which we try to escape our pain.

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Right.

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The moment we feel something painful, we turn to social media, we turn to substances, we turn to our work.

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Right.

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And so a lot of what I've had to learn is how to really face those painful experiences and sit with them.

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And that's the only way through to the other side

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and I think you know another aspect of this is what happens in in Asian culture

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and I think there are cycles of abuse that become normalized

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because they're considered a part of the cultural norm and

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so that's why as I went through this journey I felt it really imperative to to call it out

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and to be more open about this right so others feel more seen validated and less alone

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and jane why why do you think it is

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that children of immigrants or you know first generation people feel

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that drive to achieve it's a way for them to feel

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safe it's a way for them to sort of escape these other things

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that are going on in their lives what what do you

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think is behind it i think there's a lot i think

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a lot of the cultural expectation is around high achievement right whether

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that be in school or in our careers yeah um i think there's also this pressure

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that our families gave up everything to come here right and

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so we we want to excel we want to show that

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that was all worthwhile uh and

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so we take it upon ourselves to you know to be the best

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that we can i think that's that's all kind of tangled up in here um

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and then there's this like phenomenon i I see this, especially in Asian culture of like, nothing's good enough.

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Right.

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And so that's certainly how I felt for most of my life and all my upbringing.

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And it didn't matter how many degrees I got or accolades I want or babies I saved.

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There was always this, this void that nothing could fill.

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And so it was that sense of like not enoughness, which I didn't know how to articulate back then.

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Um, but I think that was also a result of, again, the, the abuse from my childhood right that

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that as a child you can't really make sense of it

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and so you you wonder well what's wrong with me

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and then as an adult you want to prove that

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that you're okay that you're worthy and

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so i think that's what was was driving me

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and it was i really believed in the mission of the organization

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and as i said my pain really became my purpose right it gave me

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so much drive have to do the work that I do.

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And at the same time, there was this like dark shadow side of that.

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So it was both things simultaneously.

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Do you think the context of like coming from a background where your family

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or your parents gave up so much and sacrificed so much for you to get you where you are,

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do you think that is a helpful driver or is it a lot slash too much weight to hold and carry?

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I think it's both.

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I think it's both.

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And I think, you know, there's this pressure that creates healthy drive.

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And then there's the point where it tips into being unhealthy drive.

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Right.

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And so in my case, there was the drive of like wanting to do something good for healthy reasons.

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And then there was this other part of like needing to prove.

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And so I think once it gets into that needing to prove category

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or feeling like you should be doing something that's

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when it can feel unhealthy and that's where i think we need to develop

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that awareness around like what our motivations are

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and is this healthy for me just like from my mental health

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and well -being perspective yeah i think sheree

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and i we actually talked about this topic a little bit

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on a really really early episode of tiger sisters like first season ever

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or something i think maybe the way that we put it is

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that you kind of feel like the weight of all of your ancestors

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and like all of the generations that came before you

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and it's like it's helpful to know your family history

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but sometimes when parts of the family history can feel so heavy

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and I think this is true for like a lot of people a lot of communities not just AAPI

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but people who have some sort of history of like overcoming

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or like trauma

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or like escaping a terrible situation in their ancestral chain like

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you almost feel like you owe it to them you're like

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i am living out my ancestors dreams like even just in my day -to -day life

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and it's like how can i not like make it up

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to them like i need to do the most with my

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life i need to make the most of my life i need to save a million babies

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because i can right and they never could

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so like it's you feel almost this this like level this like imperative inside you yeah um i think that's Right.

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Yeah.

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Achievement also ends up becoming safety.

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right?

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Because we grew up in these environments where we're wanting to belong and we don't necessarily, like we were with the only Asian family,

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one of the only Asian families in my neighborhood, right?

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So we didn't belong.

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My parents didn't speak English.

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I moved to the U .S when I was four years old.

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I didn't speak a word of English.

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And so you feel like an outcast and achieving gives you a sense of belonging, right?

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And so there's kind of a safety in that that we're also seeking.

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I want to talk a little bit more about your work with Bessel van der Kolk, the author of The Body Keeps Score.

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You wrote in your memoir that the imprint of your father's violence was lodged in your body, stuck in a survival loop.

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Can you explain what that means and how does trauma actually live in the body?

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Sure, yeah.

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I think this was one of the big turning points of

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my healing journey was reading The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk

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and up until that point I I think I had the belief

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that what happens in your past just leave it in the past right why why deal with it

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and I remember um in business school actually I saw a therapist

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and he wanted to dive into my childhood

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and I was like I don't want to talk about

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that I'm not I don't want to play the role of the victim

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or villainize my parents I have a life now let's move on um

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and what I that's such a classic like coping mechanism right yeah exactly it like helps you survive.

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It helps you survive.

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You'd rather just kind of sweep it under the rug.

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Yeah.

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And so reading this book was like completely eye -opening for me

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because what I learned is trauma isn't just something that lives in your past.

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It's actually something that rewires your brain and your nervous system such

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that you bring the past into the present and it affects every part of your life, right?

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Trauma gets stored in your body in that way.

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Trauma is also stored in the limbic system.

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So this is the part of our brain that is responsible for emotions, for connections, not thinking.

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The thinking part of our brain is the neocortex.

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And so this is a big realization I had.

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For me, talk therapy never worked because you can't talk your way out of trauma.

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You have to feel your way through it.

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And that was something, again, that was so eye opening for me.

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Even on this healing journey, I basically like put on my CEO hat and I wanted to try every healing modality.

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I had a spreadsheet of all the modalities.

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Yeah, you did.

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If something didn't work, I would pivot to the next thing.

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And I wanted to find that magic elixir that was going to fix me.

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And what I learned is that instead of doing more, I needed to slow down.

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And I needed to feel.

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I needed to feel my heartbreak.

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I needed to feel my fear, my anger, all of it, everything had been running away from right and

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so it wasn't until i i did that and and did

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that through the help of teachers healers friends who created a safe space for me to go there that's

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when my healing journey truly began yeah i really empathized

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when i was reading this part of your memoir

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because i am such a doer

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and fixer i have like such a fixer mentality i'm like okay whether at work

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or in a relationship or anything i'm like okay here's a challenge how do i fix it

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and like what are the top five things

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that i can do like you know and a b test them

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and go through all of them see if they work

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and pivot if they don't so like

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when i was reading this part of your memoir i was like this is

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so me and it turns out the solution is not

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or one of the solutions is not to be you know bringing my product manager ceo momentum into it

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but actually slowing down is so hard and quite possibly the solution to turning inwards.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it's hard, especially because we disconnect from our emotions as a survival mechanism

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when we're younger because it's too painful to feel those things.

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Well, also because when you're younger, you don't have the tools to process it.

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You don't know what to do with those feelings.

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So I think the safest thing is to like put them

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away yeah you don't know how to productively process them yeah i think exactly

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exactly yeah so as an adult it's like learning all of that again you know and and there's such

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beauty in that because that's what makes us human

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and alive you know is is being able to reach into the depths of those emotions

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and there's so much wisdom to our emotions is this what is this what people call inner child work.

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Well, yes, we can get to that too.

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Yeah.

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That's part of it.

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I think the other really helpful part of my healing journey was discovering something called parts work or internal family systems.

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And this is a therapeutic modality that's based on the premise that we all consist of a multitude of parts, right?

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So you guys might have the overachiever part, the control freak, the perfectionist, the inner critic.

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I'm making this all up, but we all have these - Sounds plausible.

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Yeah, it doesn't sound that made up.

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So we have these parts that are there to protect us

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and they're there to protect us from the parts that carry more painful emotions like shame, rejection, abandonment, right?

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And so the goal of this practice is to recognize these different parts of ourselves.

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I had this like warrior part that one of my exes nicknamed Genghis Khan.

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But the goal is to recognize and have compassion for each of these parts rather than to shame or to banish them,

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to understand that they've all played a role in our life, right?

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And so how do we develop self -acceptance and self -compassion based on this?

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And what I learned through this process was that part of me that was all about trying to, you know, do more and achieve more and save the world,

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that was protecting the part of me that never felt like I was enough, you know, that very young part of me.

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And so really pivotal part of my healing journey was having a relationship developing a relationship with that part of myself

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and for most of my life i wanted the rest of the world to show this part of myself

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that i was worthy that's what all the external achievements were about but

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when you're relying on the external the goalposts will just keep

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moving nothing's going to be good enough right everything you're seeking

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externally you have to find internally yeah i think we have a lot of people in our community

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that i think are probably also really high achieving

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and can be really hard on themselves so like what is something

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that they could do today to like stop being

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so hard on themselves and show themselves that level of like compassion

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that you say is important for for healing

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and growing yeah well this is where coming back to your question about the inner child work

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um i have a picture of myself on my desk as a five -year -old

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and i will literally just have conversations with this five -year -old me you know

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and and at one point in my healing journey

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and this is through vessel's retreat

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so to come back to vessel with my little overachiever hat on i after i read the book i became

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so obsessed with him that i stalked him until he agreed to become my therapist yeah

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and so did some like really important work with him over the last couple years, but at one of his retreats, he did something called, um, a psychodrama.

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So this is a group, uh, healing like modality where you pick people in the group to play the role of your parents

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and they enact what happened.

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And then you go back and you play, you, you find new people to play the role of your ideal parents.

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And the idea is to give yourself, um, the experience of a more loving or nurturing alternative to what happened.

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And so I watched this happen at Bessel's retreat and I was like, I became obsessed.

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I was like, this is the thing that's going to fix me.

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If I just heard the right words from the ideal father, I, you know, I would be whole and free.

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So I went around looking for the perfect ideal father, you know, and at one point I recruited a man who looked like Santa Claus to play the role of my ideal father.

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Turns out the big jolly white man was not my ideal father.

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Um, but in the, in the last chapter of the book, I talk about like, I, I, I recruited a friend to play this role.

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I wrote out every line that I wanted him to say to me.

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And, and so he did this, he said all these lines and I felt nothing, you know, I felt nothing.

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And so I took this picture of myself as a five -year -old

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and I took that piece paper and i read every line to

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that little girl i just said you're enough you're worthy

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you know i'm so sorry that happened to you um

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and i said all the things to this little girl

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that i wished someone else had said to me

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and it was only when i said those things to myself

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that i finally felt something you know and i realized

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that again all the things we're looking for from other people have to come from within.

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So how do we develop that relationship with ourselves?

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Right.

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And that for me, that has literally been having these conversations with me as a child.

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And I've become like parts work is something that's been so helpful to me.

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It's something I recommend to everybody.

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So for people who are interested, there's a wonderful book called No Bad Parts that I recommend.

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On my website, there's a bunch of free resources, including an exercise around parts work that people can download

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and try on themselves but those that practice has been the most groundbreaking for me in terms of self -compassion

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If you guys enjoyed our recent episode about communication with Professor Matt Abrahams, you should check out his podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart.

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Yes, this was one of my favorite conversations.

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And Professor Matt Abrahams was my speaking coach when I did my TED Talk last year.

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We basically manifested this episode because we literally talked about him in an episode the year before.

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And then now here we are besties with him and recommending his podcast.

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Check out Think Fast, Talk Smart.

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It's a podcast that comes out twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays.

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They go over everything about communication and speaking, whether it's presenting, small talk, networking.

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They cover it all.

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And communication is such a universal topic.

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There's something for everyone.

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In turning to your family and your parents, how do you find peace,

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internal peace, um, in loving the people who, who made you, but who also deeply hurt you.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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I think for me, that was really, um, having compassion for my family history was a really big part of this writing process.

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And in the book, I explore the way that my parents grew up, what happened to them.

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And so I started to understand the way that seeps into family systems and into lineages, right?

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And having a great deal of compassion for both my ancestry, my history, you know, the history of the country,

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the history of my parents, all of those things.

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And so what it's allowed me to do is to have an understanding and to have compassion.

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And that doesn't make certain behaviors right.

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You know, I don't condone abuse of any kind, but but i have an open heart towards my family you know

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and i have peace with my parents

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and i know they did the best they could within the within the means

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that they had within the context that they that they grew up in

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and so that was really really important to me to understand their whole stories

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and my practice then is how do i both have boundaries for myself and be open -hearted to do both things simultaneously.

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It's really challenging to be able to hold both at the same time.

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Yeah.

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It's really challenging to be able to hold both.

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And part of

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that for me has been tuning into my body in terms of like what feels right and what doesn't feel right.

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And so when I'm around certain behaviors that feel toxic, I feel that now.

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We talked earlier about kind of disconnecting from emotions now my body i tune into

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that and i start contracting

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and i realize okay i don't want to be around these behaviors

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and then i have the choice to not be right and

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so it's kind of tuning in to what's right for me as i decide what are my boundaries um

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and at the same time like practicing that open -heartedness

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which i think is so important because ultimately that's what gives you inner peace right

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when you're angry and resentful and by the way i think those are really important emotions to feel and process.

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But when you kind of carry on, carry a hold that resentment, um, you hurt yourself in the process.

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And I think my greatest freedom has been feeling all of those things and then being able to let them go.

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One of the big turning points that you talk about in your book is

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when you and your younger sister actually sort of confronted your, your family about this for the first time.

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And like you kind of said, this was my experience.

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This is why it wasn't okay.

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Um, like actually having that conversation.

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Do you think that now that the context has changed for your family or for people's family members, like what is the level of sort of expectation

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that you have of them to like develop themselves

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and grow versus just kind of holding the onus on yourself and being like, you know what?

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I can control myself.

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I can have my boundaries.

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Yeah.

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How do you think about those two things?

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Yes, that's a really great question.

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I remember one of my mentors, my leadership coach, Diana Chapman, she's the founder of the Conscious Leadership Group.

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She was the one who said to me, you have to talk to your parents.

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And I was like, no, that would never happen.

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You know how Asian parents are.

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Talking with them?

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Yeah, right.

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About like deep emotion.

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Yeah.

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Like that's crazy.

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I was like, that's never going to happen.

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Accountability?

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Yeah. Where?

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yeah so she kept like encouraging me to do this and then i remember what really

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kind of pushed me over the edge in terms of having the courage

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which was um about maybe this was like six years ago five

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or six years ago a friend

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that i had grown up with he was a year above me in high school also taiwanese american um

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and i knew there was violence in their home, he took his life.

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and it really woke me up to something and I started to realize

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that my silence was complicity and if I didn't raise this issue with my parents

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and with the community at large then I was complicit in what was happening right

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and again in these cycles of abuse

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and so I decided to talk to my parents

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and it was super scary right it was like the scariest thing

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that i've ever done um

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and as i did it the way i prepared for it was to really remind myself

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and again this this uh diana my leadership coach said this

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is not about changing your parents it's about taking the hand of

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that little girl and standing up for her right and

440

so it was more yeah which is am also that's a lot yeah yeah yeah yeah

441

so and so that was that's that was the point of

442

that exercise like i didn't go into it thinking my parents are going to change

443

and i know who they are who they are yeah um

444

and they've also tried to like hear me and and

445

and listen you know but i didn't walk into

446

that with the expectation that suddenly you know everything was going to change every night

447

but i did feel that it was really important for me to establish

448

that relationship with myself such that i could trust myself okay right

449

and so that was the most important thing that came out of

450

that so your goal for that was more to be listened to

451

and to have that actual dialogue as opposed to necessarily being like having any expectations of the other person

452

coming out of the conversation yeah

453

and i think everyone's on their own journey right we can only control our part of this.

454

Yeah.

455

And when we expect someone else to behave a certain way and they don't, that creates great disappointment and suffering.

456

And so what I believe is like the best I can do is put my truth out there.

457

And the more I put my truth out there, the more others can stand in their own truth.

458

Yeah.

459

Right.

460

And that's that's the best I can do.

461

I think that's something that can be applied not only to relationships with your your your family

462

and your parents

463

but also relationships with friends relationships with you know your your

464

partner yeah like that's something yeah i think gets sort of

465

debated a lot yeah expecting someone to change versus putting

466

that i guess onus more on yourself or just not putting

467

that onus on them

468

or speaking your truth my interpretation actually of what jane said was less being like listened to

469

or heard and more just speaking and just for yourself and for your inner child, like standing up for yourself.

470

And if the other party wants to listen to you, whether it's a parent or a partner or whatever, like that's kind of on them, like they can or cannot,

471

but like, at least you've said your piece and you've stood up for your inner child.

472

Like, I think that is probably so helpful for um yeah self -reflection like

473

that in itself is the therapeutic modality yeah yeah

474

that is the saying it out loud to the person whether

475

or not they're actually even listening or absorbing it

476

because it's kind of your takeaway yeah

477

because they might not have the capacity to absorb or listen

478

and that's not really on you that's right yeah i think that's absolutely right

479

but there's something about speaking our truth out loud right especially

480

when it's painful there's just some there's some power to that

481

and i think it allows us coming back to this idea of self uh acceptance

482

and self -compassion you know again when we

483

when we are able to do

484

that it allows us to accept all these parts of ourselves

485

yeah yeah i i often think about the balance of obligation

486

and boundaries i'm still figuring that out because i know holidays are coming up

487

and people are going to be around their families whether

488

or not you want to like you might go home

489

and it's often really hard for people to establish boundaries with their families

490

if that's not something they grew up knowing how to do yeah no i think that's absolutely right

491

and it's very hard to establish boundaries with family

492

because we want to love our families you know and

493

and the more we can say no to certain things the stronger our yeses also become

494

and so I think that that's been really healthy for me from a family perspective is like

495

when I have healthy boundaries for myself, then I can engage with my family more wholeheartedly because I don't have kind of that underlying angst or resentment.

496

So again, this has been like a new practice for me to tune into.

497

What does that feel like?

498

One of the most useful practices, and again, this is something I've learned through like leadership coaching.

499

And now that I've like transition into leadership coaching something i love to teach

500

and it's this concept of what is a whole body yes oh right

501

so think about something in your life that you really wanted to do

502

maybe it's a trip you wanted to go on

503

or friend you wanted to see a meal you wanted to eat what does

504

that feel like in your body right when when your head your heart and your gut are all aligned

505

and for me that often feels like a straight line of energy just up

506

and down my body and everything's like almost like you know feels effervescent

507

and i feel energy lifting upwards right that's a whole body yes

508

so anything that doesn't feel like that you have to question do I really want to do this

509

that's a high standard that's a very high that's a very high standard yeah

510

and it doesn't always mean no you don't but it's just pause

511

and question yourself yeah like why to what end to what end right

512

and what is this telling me

513

so I'll give you an example um I've been on book tour the last six weeks

514

and when my book came out I went to New York for an event like two or three days later

515

and I had an opportunity actually to do three events on that day.

516

Old me, no problem.

517

I would have done all three events and just been white, right?

518

But tuning into my body, I was like, I felt that contraction.

519

It wasn't a full body, yes, right?

520

And so I had to really ask myself, do I want to do this or not, right?

521

Is this going to be healthy for me?

522

Am I going to burn out at the very beginning of my book tour?

523

And I ultimately decided, and I was very proud of myself for this, but I ultimately decided to do one event and that was it.

524

And I'm so glad I did that.

525

Right.

526

And this is so contrary to like the overachiever part of me, but having that awareness of, okay, that doesn't feel quite right or aligned.

527

So it's then pausing and asking yourself, do you really want to do this?

528

And then you might decide yes or no, but at least having that moment of lausing.

529

Yes.

530

Right.

531

You have more intention and consideration.

532

And I think that, again, is what leads to a health, healthier mental state.

533

I think it's kind of funny that, like, for people who identify as overachievers, like the achievement is to not overachieve.

534

Yeah.

535

Is that like instead of doing three, you did one like that was your version of outperforming.

536

Yeah you know but it's totally true it makes

537

so much sense yeah

538

if you're like default state is to be like yeah i

539

can do it i can do more like i can always

540

achieve more i can always do more i can i have to be the best

541

and perform the best

542

and like stretch myself as much as possible that's not healthy no it's not healthy

543

and guys like i have to say at the end of

544

that you know 10 year period

545

when we had to shut down embrace i was in the

546

worst place of my life like I had a complete mental and physical breakdown.

547

Menti B?

548

Yes.

549

Yes, totally.

550

Menti B.

551

It was like, I didn't even know that my mind could be that fragile.

552

Like up to that point, I thought I'm invincible.

553

I could take on anything, you know, and then that happened.

554

I was like, oh, wow.

555

It took me probably a good year and a half to recover from

556

that and i realized through that that like when we drive

557

that hard you know in unhealthy ways yeah you can burn bright for a

558

while and then you totally burn out yeah and then what you know and

559

so for me in my career now like i know i

560

want to have impact for the rest of my life i want to have sustainable impact

561

so how do i take care of myself day to day such

562

that that's possible yes you know and i don't wish

563

that upon anybody that they get to

564

that such a a low place to learn this right and

565

so if we can care for ourselves even in small ways um i think

566

that really leads to our ability to do all the things

567

we want to do over the long run it's really clicking

568

for me there's this saying for high achievers like what has

569

gotten you here will not help you get to where you want to be next.

570

And all of this is the context is making so much sense because for the last,

571

I don't know, decade, it's like pushing so hard and like holding things with your hands gripped, white knuckled, teeth clenched to get through it, to grind and work so hard.

572

But coming out the other side, there's a meant DB or there's a breakdown.

573

But getting to the next level of where we want to be for growth means letting go.

574

Totally.

575

And there's this beautiful thing i've discovered in surrender right like control is illusion an illusion

576

that we think we can control everything

577

and we can't like look what happened during covet right um and

578

so to me success looks very different today than it did

579

in the past before success was all about external outcomes today

580

success for me is about living my values you know i

581

saw you guys did a post on this recently I loved

582

it you know it's like am I living with love every day am I giving to others am I growing

583

these are all things I can control.

584

Yeah.

585

Right.

586

So if I give something my all, that's the best I can do.

587

And then I kind of have to let go of the rest.

588

I have so many thoughts.

589

So on the concept of control, I think I saw a tick tock recently where someone said,

590

like, you know, we want everything to be in our control because we're trying to optimize things.

591

Right.

592

We're so used to trying to make things as good as they can possibly be, because that's just our operating mode.

593

But what, what happens when you do that is you don't leave room for like serenity.

594

Yes.

595

You don't leave room for, um, like magical things that can happen that it's like,

596

you kind of need a little bit of a situation that's out of your control in some ways.

597

Like you can't, you're trying to make it the best situation that's possible, but sometimes you can't imagine the best situation possible.

598

Like it might be something that's outside of your imagination.

599

So like sometimes you need to have situations where you can let that happen.

600

Totally.

601

And that's exactly what happened with Embrace.

602

Just like closing the loop on that was for 10 years, I was trying to control everything and we just kept encountering like all these setbacks.

603

And then, you know, we had to shut down the company.

604

And the minute I let go of control, magic started to happen.

605

You know, like Tony Robbins came in out of nowhere

606

and saved the company like I would have never expected

607

that in a million years and

608

so now you know my my belief as I said is is giving something your all

609

and then you you surrender the outcome

610

so like in the writing of my book I was getting really overwhelmed leading up to the launch

611

because I had all these overachievers telling me you have to make this a bestseller

612

and you know that means you have to sell this many books

613

and do this and that and I just was feeling really overwhelmed

614

and so a friend came to visit me in honolulu where i live

615

and we had a little ceremony

616

and i only had one copy of the book at

617

that point and i threw it in the ocean this is funny i love

618

that and it was so beautiful symbolic yeah i was like i gave this my soul

619

and now i give it to the universe

620

and you know i watched as the waves kind of carried it

621

and i thought that's what i want i'm going to trust

622

that the wave will take this message to where it needs to go copy others like i needed

623

that yeah and i fished it out i didn't litter like i you know i plucked it out afterwards

624

my friend and i actually like burned it and buried it under a tree with this whole thing

625

but it was just like there's something so beautiful about surrender right

626

that again i think helps us with our with our mental well -being

627

and coming back to what you said i think you hit the nail on the head

628

so tony robbins says this he says success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure right

629

and how many people do we know who outwardly are

630

so successful but are empty on the inside

631

or chasing something right chasing the fulfillment

632

but it's not there right i think that's the the disconnect

633

or the misalignment yeah exactly exactly they're always comparing themselves to the next person

634

and as i said the goal post keeps moving

635

so happiness is just like this illusion it's this thing

636

that you can never attain and back to the idea

637

that you said of like self -compassion of that being like really important

638

when you were saying

639

that whole thing i had this really strong image in my

640

mind where i imagined like us as like a glass ball

641

and And self -compassion is like the layers of like plastic coating,

642

like bouncy rubber coating that you put on the glass ball so that like if you, you know, fall, if you fail, then you don't, the glass ball doesn't break.

643

Right.

644

Like you're just like, oh, that's okay.

645

Like I will literally bounce back.

646

I can, it doesn't matter.

647

Like the outcome of this one speech doesn't determine who I am because I already am sure of who I am.

648

I know I'm amazing in these ways and whether or not, like if it goes badly, then that's a fluke or like it went badly for whatever reason.

649

It doesn't matter.

650

I'm not my, my, my, you know, my ego or my, my conception of myself.

651

That is this glass ball doesn't shatter.

652

I love that.

653

It's untangling your achievement with your identity.

654

Yep.

655

From your identity.

656

Yeah.

657

Yes.

658

We are worth more than the sum of our achievements.

659

Yeah.

660

Right.

661

We are worth more than how many likes we get on social media.

662

And I really worry about this with a younger generation, right?

663

That they, they put a post out there and they don't get

664

that many likes and it like destroys their sense of self.

665

Yeah.

666

You know?

667

So I think this, this idea of resilience, I love that rubber ball image, but that that's even more important in today's world.

668

Yeah.

669

So Jane, to wrap up with something more tactical for our audience in your memoir, you write, we cannot heal what we cannot feel,

670

but what about people who've been numb for so long or pushing aside the emotion, sweeping it under the rug,

671

and they don't even know where to start how do you begin to feel again?

672

Again, taking that time to pause and sit in stillness.

673

And at first you might not feel very much.

674

I certainly didn't.

675

But the more I sat with myself, the more I'd start to feel little sensations.

676

And that's the thing, every emotion is correlated to a physical sensation.

677

So can we start tuning into that?

678

And can we allow ourselves like the grace and be patient enough with ourselves that we do that slowly?

679

That's the first thing I would suggest.

680

The second, which I said earlier, is really about the power of community, right?

681

Healing doesn't happen in isolation.

682

And so the more we can surround ourselves with, whether it's friends, therapists, teachers that can create that sense of safety for us,

683

then the nervous system relaxes enough to start feeling and to access those emotions.

684

So these are small practices, but that there are things that have been, you know, really, really huge in my life.

685

Okay, so last question, Jane, is can you tell us a little bit more about what you're working on today

686

and then also where we can find you online and where people can find like a wave we break?

687

Sure.

688

Yeah, so I stepped down from Embrace in May.

689

We finally reached our goal of saving a million babies as of this year.

690

Oh my God, that's incredible.

691

Yeah.

692

It's like inconceivable.

693

Yeah.

694

Yeah.

695

So it feels so good.

696

And it feels so good to say that doesn't define all of who I am.

697

Right.

698

And I think what I'm most proud of is actually learning how to embrace myself.

699

Yeah.

700

And so what I'm moving into now is leadership coaching

701

and development and really teaching all of the things that I've learned in my journey,

702

both with embrace and my healing journey to others to help them step into their fullest selves,

703

for them to step into alignment, to teach how do you feel your feelings?

704

You know?

705

Um, and so these are all tools that I have gained so much from, and I feel so passionate about doing this with others.

706

And so I'm doing that both like on a corporate level and on an individual level as well.

707

And so for people who are interested in that, um, my website is jainmariechen .com.

708

I've got lots of resources there for people who want to go down a development or a healing path.

709

And then, um, yeah, you can reach out to me there for any inquiries on the leadership coaching as well.

710

Amazing.

711

I feel like you're a professor or a lecturer.

712

Like if you have like a course on this, I'm like, people would do office hours for sure.

713

This was office hours for us.

714

Yeah.

715

Honestly.

716

I mean, you're a guru.

717

You've like studied under the, you've literally studied under the best.

718

I feel so lucky.

719

And I feel like writing the book, I got to bring a little piece of all my teachers into the writing of the book.

720

So for For those interested in picking up the book, it's called Like a Wave We Break.

721

It's available at any bookstore and on Amazon.

722

I really hope you guys get something out of it, but it's a message that truly came from the depths of my soul.

723

Yeah, it's a beautiful book.

724

And there's a lot of learnings in it too.

725

A lot of takeaways.

726

Awesome, thank you so much.

727

Yay.

728

Hey guys, so it's come to my attention that many of you don't know, Jean and I have a matcha brand called Sister's Matcha that we created and founded ourselves.

729

What?

730

No way.

731

A matcha brand?

732

Yeah.

733

We started it in October 2024.

734

Jean and I have worked and lived on this matcha farm in Japan.

735

It's sourced from Wazuka, Japan, which is an hour and a half outside of Kyoto.

736

And the brand means the world to us.

737

It is a small family owned farm.

738

And we actually travel back to the farm and handpick the matcha ourselves.

739

So you can find out more about sisters matcha to try

740

it check it out buy it buy it at sistersmatcha .com that's sistersmatcha .com

741

and already back to the show and we're back wow sheree

742

that was a powerful episode i mean we said it in

743

the conversation with jane to her we warned you well i mean we said it to her face

744

and i'll say it again i think this is one of the most important conversations we've had on tiger sisters

745

because people don't talk about it and also like honestly at

746

that level of ceo founder harvard stanford accolade accolade like those people don't talk about it

747

and it looks so beautiful so shiny on the outside

748

but like you know we'd be hurt you guys need it

749

the most come on we'd be hurting on the inside i

750

don't know it's just like it was such a good conversation because it really peels back the layers.

751

And I don't think we really talk about the sacrifice it takes to run towards something that you love.

752

And I think it can look really gorgeous and amazing on the outside, but on the inside, people are working through things.

753

Yeah.

754

I mean, do you have any takeaways that you want to share?

755

The conversation really resonated with me when Jane talked about slowing down.

756

Okay.

757

Because I am such a go, go, go person.

758

I have so much trouble slowing down.

759

And that often might be a coping mechanism, right?

760

When you're grinding, whether it's at work, your hobbies, your friendly, your passion, whatever, oftentimes like you're doing the most because the second

761

that you slow down and like sit on a freaking beach and like have no distractions, you're like, oh i'm in my thoughts and oh that's really scary

762

and oh why do i go back to this you know um repeating thought in my head okay

763

and so i think the meditation the um slowing down

764

that jane talks about it's important to weave that into your every day

765

if possible having a moment of introspection daily weekly at least having a practice of it because

766

if you ignore it for too long like jane there might

767

be a point of reckoning where she talks about having like a mentee b

768

and like actually needing to find herself in very extreme ways

769

because she's never had the mindfulness practice daily in her life the way that she now does.

770

Yeah.

771

I actually reflecting on it, it is really brave of her to put herself out there like that.

772

And almost, especially in like Asian culture, you're supposed to save face.

773

Like you're not supposed to reveal your failures or your problems, your problems, hardships and your, it's just considered to be really embarrassing.

774

So I respect her all the more for really revealing herself and sharing.

775

She's like, I had a mental breakdown.

776

I had a physical breakdown.

777

She's like, I needed to escape to the other side of the world.

778

She's like, I injected myself with frog venom and frog poison, frog poison in order to like try to find myself.

779

She was like, I was so effed up that I needed to try every single modality of therapy that I could find.

780

I really respect Jane and admire her because writing her book,

781

coming on our podcast and talking about all these things that, you know, these emotional turmoils and things that are happening behind the scenes like in her head,

782

it is helping so many more people

783

and making it more OK to talk about because it my goal is

784

that like I love Jane on the podcast because

785

if one person feels less lonely in their life because they've seen this conversation.

786

If you are in a hard space, I'm like, this makes it so worth it.

787

Okay, I actually just wanna read out some of the quotes from the episode from Jane that I wrote down.

788

She said, the concept of achievement as a coping response and as a trauma response to your childhood.

789

I mean, that hits so, so deep because I mean, the need to do more and be more and prove more.

790

Yeah.

791

It can be really good to help propel you and give you

792

that determination towards a goal

793

but jane also talks about having a dark shadow it's like

794

to me it's like a very thin line it's like at one point you can use it to help you

795

but at another point like the other side of the coin is

796

that like it can also really drag you down and give you

797

so much pressure yeah it's the shadow analogy is interesting

798

because you're like oh like you're suppressing the shadow like you don't ever want

799

that shadow to like come out and like take over.

800

Yes.

801

Right.

802

So it might always be there too.

803

Yeah.

804

If you push yourself too far or if it comes from an unhealthy place.

805

Yeah.

806

And then the way to address that is by doing these sort of wellness practices,

807

like you said, like reflecting on yourself and meditation and slowing down.

808

It's doing the work to be like, I'm achieving a lot, but also asking yourself, like, where does my need to achieve come from?

809

Yeah.

810

And if it comes from a place

811

that you're comfortable with like good on you use

812

that as the grit and courage to leap into the thing you want to do

813

but if it's coming from a place to prove out something to the exterior world yeah it can

814

be you know the darker the darker side of the shadow

815

okay let me hit you with another another quote i have more

816

so she says as a child you wonder what's wrong with me

817

and you carry

818

that into adulthood into what you into what she calls the sense of not enoughness um why did

819

that resonate with you you good say more okay the next quote wait why did you pick out that quote

820

because i connect with it yeah yeah okay one last quote

821

i'm gonna share with you from jane is she says my

822

pain became my purpose again why what what about this quote resonated with you Well, she's just saying that, like,

823

all of her childhood difficulties is what drove her to be so excellent.

824

And that's what drove her to even set this goal for herself of saving a million babies, right?

825

She was saying that these babies who are preemies are the most helpless, vulnerable people in the world.

826

And she was like, my goal is to help them because no one else is helping them in the developing world.

827

Yeah, I mean that's really beautiful because her purpose came from

828

maybe I mean a place of pain and hurt but she developed like an incredible mission and vision

829

that came out of a bad place um and

830

so I mean the takeaway there for me is

831

that like something beautiful came from something not beautiful

832

and she was able to really make such big impact for the people around her

833

and around the world yeah and

834

so the last thing I'll say about this episode before we wrap up is just

835

that I think it is so brave and so incredible that Jane was able to go on this really deep healing journey.

836

And I think what's great is that we can learn from her healing journey, which was over the course of years.

837

It wasn't just like she took a two -week sabbatical break from work and was able to find herself.

838

She really did the thing and spent years doing it, learning all these different modalities learning from all these different sort

839

of like masters of different therapy uh types of therapy

840

and i think what's helpful for us to take away

841

and for the audience is

842

that i would just kind of ask you like what would it look like

843

if you went on a healing journey of your own like you don't even have to plan it

844

or be like i am going to do a healing journey

845

but what would that look like to even just like consider it is something

846

that i I think most people have never done.

847

Yeah.

848

I mean, also like consider the tools that Jane used as well, like meditation, journaling, speaking to a trusted person,

849

a trusted adult, a trusted person, a therapist.

850

I think there's a lot to take away from the healing journey she went on

851

and how we may apply that to our own lives.

852

And she talks about all these different books that she read and used as part of her journey, which we are going to list out and link so

853

that um everyone can refer to these books thank you guys

854

so much for tuning in to this director's cut episode with

855

jane marie chen we'll catch you next time on tiger sisters bye

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Wortschatz und Sprechhinweise zu dieser Lektion

Diese Sprechübung auf Niveau B2 basiert auf dem Video „Why Success Still Feels Empty“. Dieses Video enthält 855 Sätze und 10254 Wörter zum Nachsprechen. Der gesprochene Teil dauert 57:24. Der Sprecher spricht in natürlichem Tempo, etwa 179 Wörter pro Minute, ähnlich wie im Alltagsgespräch. 85 % der Wörter gehören zu den 3.000 häufigsten im Englischen; den Rest solltest du dir vor dem Üben ansehen.

Wichtiger Wortschatz in diesem Video

Die 15 anspruchsvollsten Wörter aus dem Video, mit Aussprache und Bedeutung:

Wort	Aussprache	Bedeutung
heal Verb	/ˈhiːl/	heilen
trauma Substantiv	/ˈtɹɔm.ə/	Trauma
emotion Substantiv	/ɪˈməʊ.ʃən/	Gefühl, Empfindung f Emotion
compassion Substantiv	/kəmˈpæʃ.ən/	Mitleid, Erbarmen
modality Substantiv		Modalität
memoir Substantiv	/ˈmɛmˌwɑː/	Memoiren, Lebenserinnerungen
boundary Substantiv	/ˈbaʊndɹi/	Grenze
podcast Substantiv	/ˈpɑdˌkæst/	Podcast, Audio-Internetsendung
embrace Verb	/ɛmˈbɹes/	umarmen
matcha Substantiv	/ˈmɑ.t͡ʃə/	Matcha
overachiever Substantiv		Überleister, Überleisterin
takeaway Substantiv	/ˈteɪkəweɪ/	Gaststätte mit Außer-Haus-Verkauf, Restaurant mit Essen zum Mitnehmen
unhealthy Adjektiv	/ʌnˈhɛl.θi/	ungesund, gesundheitsschädlich
accolade Substantiv	/ˈæk.əˌleɪd/	Anerkennung, Lob
expectation Substantiv	/ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/	Erwartung

Phrasal Verbs, die du hören wirst

Wort	Aussprache	Bedeutung
slow down Verb		verlangsamen
come out Verb	/ˌkʌm ˈaʊt/	herauskommen
shut down Verb		herunterfahren
check out Verb		überprüfen
give up Verb		aufgeben, sich ergeben
grow up Verb		aufwachsen, erwachsen werden
stand up for Verb		eintreten für, sich einsetzen für
turn out Verb		sich herausstellen als/dass, sich erweisen als

Sätze zum Wiederholen

Kurze, vollständige Sätze aus dem Video, die du im Alltag wiederverwenden kannst:

Trauma isn't just something that lives in your past.
We've linked helplines and resources in the description.
You don't know what to do with those feelings.
How do you think about those two things?
Is this going to be healthy for me?

Grammatik in diesem Video

Die Strukturen, die der Sprecher am häufigsten verwendet, mit den genauen Worten aus dem Video:

Struktur	Im Video
Present Perfect Continuous have/has been + -ing – eine Handlung, die früher begann und noch andauert	has literally been having · has been tuning
Present Perfect have/has + Partizip Perfekt – eine vergangene Handlung, die jetzt noch wichtig ist	have never done · we've ever filmed · we've ever had
Passiv be + Partizip Perfekt – wichtig ist, was geschieht, nicht wer es tut	aren't already subscribed · being hit · was burned
Relativsätze who / which + Satz – eine Zusatzinformation über eine Person oder Sache	Embrace, which is · Break, which is · people who raised

Aussprache, auf die du achten solltest

Der Sprecher verwendet 178 Kurzformen und abgeschwächte Formen, zum Beispiel don't, you're, I'm. Sprich sie in der kurzen Form, so wie du sie hörst.

Die „th“-Laute: unhealthy /ʌnˈhɛl.θi/, therapist /ˈθɛɹəpɪst/, therapeutic /ˌθɛɹ.əˈpjuː.tɪk/
Die Laute „sh“ und „zh“: emotion /ɪˈməʊ.ʃən/, compassion /kəmˈpæʃ.ən/, expectation /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/, illusion /ɪˈl(j)uːʒ(ə)n/, meditation /mɛdɪˈteɪʃn̩/
Lange Wörter – auf die Betonung achten: expectation /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/, incubator /ˈɪn.kjuːˌbeɪ.tə(ɹ)/, imperative /ɪmˈpɛɹ.ə.tɪv/, therapeutic /ˌθɛɹ.əˈpjuː.tɪk/, entrepreneur /ˌɑn.tɹə.pɹəˈnɝ/

Laute, die Deutschsprachigen schwerfallen:

/w/ — mit runden Lippen, nicht wie das deutsche „w“ (/v/): memoir /ˈmɛmˌwɑː/, takeaway /ˈteɪkəweɪ/, overwhelm /ˌoʊ.vɚˈwɛlm/, rewire /ɹiːˈwaɪə(ɹ)/
Stimmhafter Auslaut — /b/, /d/, /g/, /z/, /v/ am Wortende nicht verhärten: accolade /ˈæk.əˌleɪd/, dive /daɪv/, imperative /ɪmˈpɛɹ.ə.tɪv/, pause /pɔːz/, void /vɔɪd/
/æ/ — offener als „ä“: compassion /kəmˈpæʃ.ən/, podcast /ˈpɑdˌkæst/, accolade /ˈæk.əˌleɪd/, ancestor /ˈæn.sɛs.tɚ/, setback /ˈsɛtbæk/

So übst du mit diesem Video

Höre dir das ganze Video einmal an, ohne zu sprechen, und notiere die Wörter, die du nicht kennst.
Beginne mit 0,75-facher Geschwindigkeit, sprich Satz für Satz nach und wechsle zur normalen Geschwindigkeit, sobald es leichtfällt.
Nimm dich auf und vergleiche mit dem Original; achte dabei auf Wörter wie heal, trauma, emotion.

Was ist die Shadowing-Technik?

Shadowing ist eine wissenschaftlich fundierte Sprachlerntechnik, die ursprünglich für die professionelle Dolmetscherausbildung entwickelt und durch den Polyglotten Dr. Alexander Arguelles populär gemacht wurde. Die Methode ist einfach aber wirkungsvoll: Du hörst englisches Audio von Muttersprachlern und wiederholst es sofort laut — wie ein Schatten, der dem Sprecher mit nur 1–2 Sekunden Verzögerung folgt. Anders als passives Hören oder Grammatikübungen zwingt Shadowing dein Gehirn und deine Mundmuskulatur, gleichzeitig echte Sprachmuster zu verarbeiten und zu reproduzieren. Studien zeigen, dass es Aussprachegenauigkeit, Intonation, Rhythmus, verbundene Sprache, Hörverständnis und Sprechflüssigkeit signifikant verbessert — was es zu einer der effektivsten Methoden für die IELTS Speaking-Vorbereitung und reale englische Kommunikation macht.

Shadowing-Technik: die vollständige Schritt-für-Schritt-Anleitung lesen →

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Wortschatz und Sprechhinweise zu dieser Lektion

Wichtiger Wortschatz in diesem Video

Phrasal Verbs, die du hören wirst

Sätze zum Wiederholen

Grammatik in diesem Video

Aussprache, auf die du achten solltest

So übst du mit diesem Video

Was ist die Shadowing-Technik?

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