Prática de Shadowing: Israel-Hamas War: Piers Morgan vs Bassem Youssef On Palestine's Treatment | The Full Interview - Aprenda a falar inglês com vídeo

Joining me now to discuss the conflict in Israel and Gaza is the TV host and satirist Bassem Youssef.

Bassem, it's great to have you back on the program.

I wish it was under different circumstances.

First of all, what is your reaction to what happened on October the 7th?

Oh, it was terrible, of course.

I mean, we kind of get our news kind of also secondhand because, you know, my wife's family, they live in Gaza.

They have cousins and uncles there, and their house also was bombed.

We haven't been able to communicate with them for the past three days.

Communication is lost.

So, we don't know, actually, what is the...how they're doing.

But you know, we're used to that.

I mean, it's just like...it's very repetitive.

We're used to that.

We're used to them being bombed every time and moving from one place to the other.

You know, it's just like those Palestinians, they're very dramatic.

Ah, Israel killing us.

But they never die.

I mean, they always come back.

You know, they're very difficult to kill, very difficult people to kill.

I know because I'm married to one.

I tried many times, couldn't kill her.

I mean, there's a dark humor there, and I understand why.

Oh, it's not dark humor.

I really, I try to get to her every time, but she uses our kids as human shields.

I can never take her out.

Again, I understand the humor.

But to be serious, Bassem, about this, tonight there is...

I will be serious.

I was watching your interview with Ben Shapiro, and I will tell you one thing.

I think that Ben Shapiro is one of the smartest people who ever walked this earth.

He's very, very smart.

I follow him, and I believe everything he said.

And when he came in on your show, his solution was, and I quote, his solution was, that the solution for this is for Israel to annex Gaza

and to kill as many sons of bitches as possible to make sure that this will never happen again.

And anyone, anyone who calls for a ceasefire will be a terrorist sympathizer.

So God forbid, I don't want to be labeled as a terrorist sympathizer.

So I agree with Ben Shapiro.

I think we should kill as many sons of bitches as possible.

Well, let me, okay.

So far, 3,500 people were killed,

including 5,000 sons of bitches in the bombing of the Baptist hospital as we speak right now.

One third of those 3,500 were children.

So my question to Ben Shapiro is, how many more son of bitches do we need to kill so Ben Shapiro is happy?

Because it changes from one year...

Vasem, let me just stop you there to say...

I'm sorry, please listen to this.

I'm really at a disadvantage here.

I'm looking at a camera.

I don't see you.

I can hear you on my ear.

The reason I'm interrupting is...

I think you're conflating different interviews with Ben Shapiro.

He didn't use the phrase sons of bitches with me.

Let me play to you what he actually said on my show.

He did.

Go back to your interview.

No, he didn't.

That was another interview.

But let me play what he said to me here.

Well, frankly, I don't believe in proportionate response to terrorism.

I believe that the way that you stop terrorism is with wildly disproportionate response.

That doesn't mean in terms of targeting civilians.

It means in terms of killing as many terrorists as humanly possible

and allowing them to dictate the terms of engagement by hiding behind civilians in areas

that they are supposedly responsible for MEANS

THAT THE ONLY OPTION FOR ISRAEL IS TO SURRENDER TO HAMAS'S HATRED OF ITS OWN CITIZENS.

IT'S WILLINGNESS TO USE ITS OWN CHILDREN AS HUMAN SHIELDS.

NO COUNTRY WORTH ITS SALT COULD EVER DO THAT.

NOW THAT IS SUBSTANTIVELY DIFFERENT TO WHAT YOU SAID HE SAID, RIGHT?

HE'S TALKING THERE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HAMAS TERRORISTS.

I AGREE WITH HIM.

THE THING IS THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS A PROPORTIONED RESPONSE?

BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN DIFFERENT FROM ONE TEAR TO ANOTHER.

SO IF YOU LOOK TO THIS GRAPH, for example, this is the death of Israeli and Palestinians, and it's changing from one year to year.

It's like fluctuating like crypto.

So my question is today, what is the going rate today for human life?

I mean, 2014 was a great year for Ben Shapiro.

88 Israelis were died, and there was 2,329 Palestinians killed on the other side.

That is one Israeli for 27 Palestinians.

That is a very good exchange rate.

What I'm saying is, what is the exchange rate for today?

So you guys will be happy.

That's my question.

Well, it's not me, guys.

I'm not on either side here.

No, no, not you.

When I say you guys, I say people on the other side of that.

I know that you don't think like that.

You're one of the good guys.

But let me tell you something.

I mean, the reason that I'm using this is that, I mean, I can't remember what happened in 2014.

And there was no music festival.

But there must be something.

I mean, they must do something.

It is their fault.

It has to be something.

I mean, 2018, 300 Palestinians died.

100

Ah, who's counting?

101

You know?

102

So the thing is, my question is, let's find what is the exchange rate for human life today so we know,

103

expect the future death of Palestinians and we'll be happy to it.

104

My response to that would be this, Bassem.

105

I thought carefully about this

106

because I think it's very tricky for people like me to immerse ourselves into a conflict where we're not directly involved.

107

And I thought carefully about what I feel about this.

108

I feel that the scale of what Hamas did on October 7th supersedes anything else I've seen in this conflict, really, ever.

109

The savagery, the butchery, the slaughter of 1,300 people, the shooting of babies, the kidnapping of grandmas and so on.

110

So if we can agree on that, which I think is inarguable, then the question then becomes, again, about proportion.

111

I don't disagree that there's been a lot of bad stuff on both sides going back historically for decades.

112

But if we agree that this was on a different level altogether, quite deliberately by Hamas, designed to provoke...

113

No, here's my question.

114

Let me ask you a question.

115

And the question, because you raised it earlier about proportion.

116

I honestly don't know what the proportionate response is.

117

I honestly don't.

118

I don't.

119

I've been watching the airstrikes.

120

What's your question?

121

Well, I would ask you, if you were Israel, what would you...

122

If I was Israel?

123

If you were Israel and that had happened to you, what would you think would be the appropriate way for the country to respond?

124

I would do exactly like Israel did, kill as many people as possible since the world is letting me do it.

125

I mean, I can do it because I can, you know.

126

But the thing is, you know what, I agree with you.

127

And you know what, I'm going to be even ahead of you because I see the question coming.

128

Do you condemn Hamas for the atrocity?

129

Yes, I condemn Hamas.

130

I condemn Hamas.

131

I condemn Hamas is the source of all evil.

132

There are reasons for everything.

133

And you know what?

134

Let's for a minute imagine a world without Hamas.

135

What will this world look like?

136

Let's give this world a name and let's name this world the West Bank.

137

Hamas has absolutely no control in the West Bank.

138

And since the beginning of this period, only through August, 37 Palestinian kids were killed.

139

No music festival, no paragliding, no Hamas.

140

Since the occupation of the West Bank, 7,000 Palestinians were killed.

141

No music festival, no paragliding, no Hamas.

142

I can go on and on and on and on.

143

No, no, but you don't need to, because in a way, in a way you're preaching to the choir.

144

I've followed this crisis.

145

Oh, no, you're not preaching.

146

So the thing is like, I know that what you're saying has validity, of course.

147

Pierce, Pierce, by the way, Pierce, Pierce, Pierce, Pierce, I am at a disadvantage here.

148

I can hear you.

149

I cannot see you.

150

I am in a callostrophobic room.

151

And so please cut me some slack and don't interrupt me and interrupt my points.

152

Sure.

153

So because this has to be fair.

154

I understand.

155

Because if you want to only hear your opinion, I can just condemn Hamas and go home.

156

I can do that.

157

So do you want to do that or do you have a much more nuanced conversation?

158

No, I absolutely want to have a nuanced conversation.

159

I wasn't aware I was interrupting you.

160

I thought I was having to speak.

161

Amazing.

162

So let's, I mean, I would say I really applaud Israel for doing one thing

163

that no military force in the world does.

164

Because I heard Ben Shapiro and I heard Ron DeSantis.

165

And they said, they said, Israel is the only military force in the world that warns civilians before bombing them.

166

I mean, how fucking cute.

167

That is so nice of them.

168

Because with this logic, if Russian troops started warning Ukrainians before bombing their houses, we're cool with Putin, right?

169

I mean, okay, Habibi, you have warned them, go invade.

170

It's fine, you have done your job.

171

I mean, the thing is, and I understand, and I also heard Ben Shapiro talking about Human Shield.

172

So, you remember my wife, Sameli, they live in Gaza.

173

So I asked them, I told them, when Israel give you the nice warning,

174

the cute warning, does Hamas force you to stay in your home so you can be bombed and use as human shield.

175

You know, Hassan here, my wife's cousin, he's a loser, you know?

176

He told me, you know, when I asked him, does that happen, he told me, no. The lying son of a bitch lied to me.

177

I told him, you don't understand.

178

Ben Shapiro and Ron DeSantis keep saying that Israel warned you and Hamas asked you to stay put.

179

So I told you, he's a loser, he never kept a job.

180

He even, like, failed in all of the interviews to become like a human shield.

181

I would believe Ben Shapiro.

182

Let me ask you this, Basak.

183

So let's go with that.

184

No, no, no. Let me ask you this.

185

At some point, I must be able to ask you questions.

186

It's not a monologue for you, Basak.

187

If we agree, if we agree that for the 14,000 casualties, I mean, who's counting?

188

Our human shield.

189

Does that mean that every single one of those civilians was standing, obscuring a military target behind them?

190

Because that's a lot of weapons.

191

I mean, Hamas is packing.

192

No, of course it doesn't.

193

And look, you know.

194

So there is some collateral damage lots of collateral damage.

195

It's fine.

196

You kill some to save some and then kill some more.

197

Yeah, I agree.

198

Let me ask you this.

199

Again, it comes back to proportionate response.

200

When the world decided it had to get rid of ISIS because of the appalling butchery they were carrying out,

201

it did so by also killing, very sadly, a lot of civilians along the way by doing airstrikes against places which help ISIS.

202

But killing civilians are inevitable.

203

You said that in the beginning.

204

The point is, once Israel has decided that they want to get rid of Hamas, and Hamas is embedded with civilian population,

205

I'm very concerned about what's going to happen next.

206

I've written a column tonight saying, I remember the Iraq war, which I opposed, right?

207

I remember all this.

208

So my question to you is, what would you think would be an appropriate response by Israel to what happened?

209

Well, these are years of disproportionate responses of Israel.

210

Did it solve the solution?

211

Did it solve the problem?

212

Did it work before?

213

So it will work.

214

What will be the surprise this time?

215

What will be the twist that will make this work this time?

216

What?

217

What will be different this time?

218

Seriously, I mean, like, this is only the last 15 years.

219

I mean, because it's too many papers.

220

I just got this.

221

But how will this will be different?

222

And the thing is, I am so glad in the introduction that you mentioned the Iraq war.

223

I applaud you, Pierce, for saying that because you were honest about it.

224

You said that spreading lies like WMDs make people look at those people as less of humans

225

and they would accept the death of a million Iraqi, whether by sanctions or by invasion, right?

226

You are a good man.

227

This is amazing.

228

And you know what is similar is when you spread the lies of 40 decapitated babies, although it was refuted.

229

So what happens when people hear that, you know, killing babies is horrible.

230

But when you say decapitated 40 babies, you are planting a certain image.

231

Who has said that?

232

With a certain trigger in people's mind.

233

Who has said that?

234

Who has said 40 decapitated? Who has said that?

235

You have said 40 decapitated?

236

No, no, I haven't.

237

What?

238

I've never said that.

239

You haven't said on your show 40 decapitated babies?

240

Never.

241

Ben Shapiro didn't say it?

242

No. Ron DeSantis didn't say it?

243

Nobody has said it.

244

Okay, Pierre.

245

No, they haven't.

246

Nobody said it?

247

No. Oh, okay.

248

Okay, maybe I am wrong.

249

Decapitated.

250

You're wrong.

251

I've never said that.

252

The thing, what happened, yeah, no, you're wrong.

253

But the thing is, when Iraq, the thing is, the same thing is happening in Iraq.

254

Ben Shapiro once tweeted, not even about Gaza, about the West Bank, when Israel continued to build the illegal settlement,

255

he said, 2017, Israel likes to build things, and Arabs, not Palestine, not Hamas,

256

Arabs, like the bomb crap and live in open sewage.

257

Yeah, I thought that was very, very...

258

The Israeli defense minister, he said, those are human animals.

259

And the thing is, Ben Shapiro should know better because, you know, long before the Holocaust, before Jewish people were thrown in the gas chambers,

260

the Nazi propaganda called them rats.

261

Now, as a human being, I will never accept that another human being being thrown into a gas chamber, but a rat, kill a 10, kill a thousand, 3,500.

262

They are son of a bitch.

263

They are human animals who live in open sewage and decapitate babies.

264

And because of that propaganda, Mr. Morgan, that guy in Illinois, the 71 years old guy,

265

he killed stabbing the six years old Palestinian kid in Illinois 26 times.

266

And he used to play with him.

267

They used to be friends.

268

But he went in, marching into their apartment, stabbing his mother and killing him, shouting all Muslims could die.

269

It took you 80 years to change one word from Jewish to Muslim.

270

And then you transferred your guilt to us and took away our land.

271

Masam, let me ask you a question.

272

That deal sucks, man.

273

Let me ask you a question.

274

How do we get from where we are now to peace?

275

Well, first of all, you need to change the perception.

276

Nikki Haley, the American presidential candidate, said, We are in Israel in this because it's a fight between good and evil.

277

Now, if you already decided someone is good, he can do no evil.

278

And if you decided someone is evil, it's good to kill them.

279

Killing them is good.

280

You see, the thing is, it is not like something new.

281

I mean, I look at history and I see, I'm sorry to say, and I'm sorry to say this, but Westerners have always dealt like this with indigenous people.

282

You first treated them like savages, you know, Native American, first nation aboriginal, they're savages.

283

Kill all the savages.

284

And then when they're almost extinct, you start feeling sorry for them, you know, like animals.

285

So maybe, maybe the solution is that we kill as many Palestinians as possible

286

so that few of them that remains do not bother you.

287

And maybe Netanyahu, for another hundred years, he'll become a tree hugger.

288

And he will I'M NOT SURE YOU ARE.

289

I'M NOT SURE YOU ARE.

290

YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT WESTERNERS LIKE ME.

291

LET ME RETURN THE FAVOR.

292

HAMAS IS DEDICATED TO THE COMPLETE ERADICATION OF JEWISH PEOPLE.

293

I'M NOT THE SPOKESMAN FOR HAMAS.

294

I'M NOT SAYING YOU ARE.

295

I'M NOT THE SPOKESMAN.

296

I FUCKING HATE THEM.

297

FUCK HAMAS.

298

ARE YOU HAPPY?

299

YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT.

300

YOU ARE TALKING IN A GENERALIZED WAY ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE WEST WHO ALWAYS TALK I'm talking about Western media.

301

I led the media campaign in this country against the Iraq war.

302

Okay, so I don't see people in the Middle East as savages.

303

You are one of the good ones.

304

I'm not talking about you.

305

You're great.

306

No, no, it's not about me being great.

307

You're amazing.

308

We love you.

309

It's about the way Hamas behaved on October 7th.

310

It was like savages, like a pack of savages.

311

It was the worst atrocity against Jewish people since the Holocaust.

312

There has to be... Of course.

313

There has to be a response.

314

They should be eradicated.

315

They should be killed until the last one of them.

316

What is the proportionate response?

317

But I don't know.

318

But there's no Hamas in the West Bank and they're still dying there.

319

So what's your excuse?

320

I don't have any excuse.

321

Okay.

322

What's your explanation?

323

Sorry.

324

Sorry.

325

My earpiece went down.

326

Listen, I don't make any pretense that this hasn't been a massive problem between Palestine

327

and Israel They're going back to the mid-40s.

328

We all know this, right?

329

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Pierce.

330

Pierce, Pierce, listen.

331

I'm not saying that you're making excuses, but if you are adopting a certain point of view, you have to at least defend it.

332

I'm telling you there is no Hamas in the West Bank.

333

What is the excuse?

334

Not your excuse.

335

What is the excuse to kill those people?

336

Well, listen, this question of proportionality is one that...

337

No, no, no, answer my question!

338

I've been answering your question.

339

You answer mine.

340

It's actually not my job to answer your questions.

341

It's not.

342

Okay, not your job.

343

I agree with you.

344

I'm more interested in you.

345

I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.

346

I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.

347

I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

348

IT'S NOT MY JOB TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

349

IT'S NOT.

350

OKAY.

351

NOT YOUR JOB.

352

I AGREE WITH YOU.

353

I'M MORE INTERESTED IN YOU WHO HAS FAMILY IN GAZA WHO IS AN EGYPTIAN IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

354

I'M MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

355

I'M TELLING YOU.

356

I THINK HAMAS IS THE PROBLEM.

357

Hamas, Hummous, Hassan, everyone...

358

Guys, say, wait.

359

I can't hear you.

360

The earpiece...

361

Damn, okay.

362

Okay.

363

Yeah, okay.

364

I didn't hear that.

365

I think...

366

Is he there?

367

You go back.

368

Can you hear me?

369

Okay, go.

370

Thank you, guys.

371

Can you hear Basel?

372

Yeah, yeah, now I can hear you.

373

Okay.

374

So, here's the thing.

375

Can you hear?

376

Okay, so, I do that.

377

Let's say, for example, Hamas ceased to exist.

378

Okay?

379

Do you hear me?

380

Yes.

381

Yeah, Hamas ceased to exist today.

382

Now, right now in Palestine, in West Bank and Gaza,

383

20% of Palestinians go through Israeli prison system, whether imprisonment, whether interrogation, whether torture,

384

and the rest of them, they live a life of daily loss of land, of homes, of life, and they are suffocated by this.

385

So let me ask you something.

386

If you are a Palestinian living into these conditions for decades.

387

Would you sympathize with your oppressor or sympathize with the people who claim they resist them even if they are terrorists?

388

I have made no secret that I think the conditions Palestinians have had to exist under are completely unacceptable.

389

I've said that for years.

390

So the question then becomes, how do you forge peace between two warring parts OF THAT REGION, WHO FOR DECADES HAVE APPROACHED PEACE,

391

IN MY VIEW, WITH MUTUAL SLEDGE HAMMERS, WITH NO ACTUAL DESIRE TO HAVE PEACE.

392

I THINK IT COMES DOWN IN THE END TO GREAT LEADERSHIP.

393

I DON'T THINK THERE'S GREAT LEADERSHIP ON EITHER SIDE.

394

WHERE IS THE NELSON MANDELA FIGURE HERE TO COME THROUGH ALL THIS HATRIED ON BOTH SIDES?

395

I don't know.

396

Nelson Mandela?

397

Where is that figure?

398

Nelson Mandela actually have criticized Israel for being a horrible state.

399

All of the South African activists have actually put Israel.

400

I know.

401

My point is about how he responded to a country that was so divided

402

is a template for how you get to peace, isn't it?

403

I haven't met Nelson Mandela, so I wouldn't know.

404

THERE'S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT HERE.

405

YOU KNOW, I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE LOGIC OF ISRAEL CARPET BOMBING GAZA.

406

I MEAN, IF THERE'S A LOGIC, IF THIS WILL MAKE ISRAEL SAFE, I WANT TO HEAR THE LOGIC.

407

SO IF THEY CONTINUE BOMBING, WHAT ARE THEY HOPING TO ACHIEVE?

408

WE KNOW WHAT THEIR STATED AIM IS.

409

THEIR STATED AIM IS TO ERADICATE AND WIPE OUT HAMAS.

410

THEY BELIEVE HAMAS ARE LIVING PREDOMINATELY IN NORTHERN GAZA.

411

THEY ALSO ARE AWARE THEY'RE LIVING AMONG CIVILIANS.

412

So it's an incredibly difficult thing.

413

As I said in my monologue, it is very, very difficult to see how they do this without massive collateral damage.

414

So if I can understand this correctly, basically Israel is doing this to pressure the Palestinian community in Gaza to turn against Hamas.

415

Is that right?

416

I'm sure that's part of it, yes.

417

That's part of it.

418

So this is exactly what terrorist organizations do because terrorist organizations will have no chance beating a whole nation in battle.

419

So they terrorize and they kill the civilians in order to spread fear

420

and terror so they can turn against the government to change their policy or to resign.

421

You have just compared Israel with ISIS.

422

No, I haven't.

423

I don't I don't see any comparison.

424

It's going to be the headlines tomorrow.

425

Piers Morgan, Israel is ISIS.

426

Only amongst people who weren't listening.

427

The comparison, which is more apposite, is ISIS and Hamas.

428

They are both nihilistic terror groups intent on killing as many Jewish people and others as they can possibly kill.

429

And you can't get peace with people like that.

430

Absolutely.

431

You know what?

432

I'm going to do something that nobody done on your television.

433

You know what I'm going to do on your episode?

434

I'm going to pretend that I'm an Israeli citizen.

435

I'm going to put myself in the place of an Israeli settler in the caputs.

436

and I want to speak to my Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

437

Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu, I have voted for you because you have promised us peace and prosperity and security.

438

On the 7th of October, those son of bitches, Hamas, they went into defense that is regularly heavily guarded.

439

Usually if there's like a dove that comes close to it, it will be shot.

440

Those people went in and they went for six hours before IDF forces was deployed.

441

killing our friends, our families, kidnapping our grandmothers and babies, and went in.

442

I want to ask you, Mr. Prime Minister, after you have fractured the Israeli community and you have fucked our courts, our Supreme Courts, what are you doing with the money being given to you,

443

to the United States?

444

Also, you are carpet bombing Gaza with absolutely no regard to our hostages, our people.

445

I heard a rumor in the Kiputs that you were doing that as an excuse.

446

You let that happen as an excuse to carpet bomb Gaza, so you push them into Sinai.

447

And I didn't believe it.

448

That's not my prime minister.

449

He can never do that.

450

And then I watched an interview for Danny Ayalon.

451

He was your chief advisor.

452

He was also the Israeli ambassador to the United States.

453

And you know what he said, Mr. Prime Minister?

454

He said that the solution for those Palestinians is to go into a vast land of Sinai

455

and live into tent cities temporarily, huh?

456

Temporarily, wink, wink, until we build Gaza again and then we invite you back.

457

We've seen this movie before.

458

So, when I saw this, I couldn't explain to my fellows in the kiputz how come

459

our Israeli government is trading human lives for another piece of land.

460

So as an Israeli citizen, I need to hold my Israeli government accountable.

461

And as an American citizen, I want to know, All of these money that we are giving to Israel, we're giving them $4 billion every year.

462

Joe Biden said it's the best investment America ever done.

463

Well, if I am in the place of Joe Biden, I would say, sorry, don't speak.

464

I would say if I was Joe Biden, I would go down and whisper in the ears of Netanyahu and tell them I hate bad investments.

465

They haunt me, you know, like Littlefinger in Game of Thrones.

466

But the thing is, the thing is, this is the problem.

467

Israel always victimizes itself, and I have never seen a victim putting their oppressor under siege and bombing them 24-7.

468

Israel wants you to believe that they are the victim.

469

Dealing with Israel is so difficult.

470

It's like being in a relationship with a narcissistic psychopath.

471

He fucks you up, and then he makes you think it's your fault.

472

You look at Israel as Superman, but they're really homelander.

473

They are like...

474

They are shooting fish in a barrel, and they are annoyed with the splashes.

475

Basim, I want to say two things.

476

One, if you could just slightly mound your language.

477

We are uncensored, but if you keep swearing...

478

I'm very sorry.

479

I have to apologize to viewers.

480

You may be offended by that.

481

I apologize.

482

But I understand passion's run high, so let's not get too bogged down about the odd swear word.

483

I apologize to the viewers.

484

I apologize to the viewers for my language.

485

My second question is this.

486

The sight of dead civilians.

487

After the break, we have the managing director of The Daily Wire, which is Ben Shapiro's company.

488

We were going to interview him on his own, but he's happy to come on and talk with you directly, if you are prepared to stay?

489

Well, of course, I can stay, but again, I am...

490

Fuck!

491

I am at a disadvantage, and I would like to have my space to respond.

492

Okay, we'll come back after the break.

493

Say that, Bassem.

494

Because here's the thing.

495

Bassem, we've got to go to a break.

496

When we come back from the break, it'll be you and Jeremy Boring from The Daily Wire.

497

I have news for that...

498

We're taking a short break, Bassem.

499

We'll be back.

500

Welcome back to Uncensored.

501

For more on the situation in Israel, I'm joined now by the CEO and co-founder of the Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's partner, Jeremy Boring.

502

Jeremy, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

503

I'm sorry we demoted you earlier to Mir MD.

504

You are the CEO and co-founder.

505

You know Ben Shapiro better than anyone, really.

506

I did a big interview with Ben, obviously, the other night, which went around the world, and has sparked a big reaction,

507

including from our guest Bassem Youssef, who's still with us.

508

First of all, you've been listening to Bassem and what he's been saying.

509

What's your response?

510

Well, first of all, I make it a point not to speak for Ben Shapiro.

511

He's got 20 IQ points on me and speaks for a living professionally, so he's much better prepared to defend himself.

512

But as his business partner, as his best friend, I do feel like I have to respond to the things that Bassem was just saying.

513

First of all, the question of how many sons of bitches have to be killed in order to end this conflict, I suppose that the answer is as many of them as it takes.

514

That doesn't mean that I or Ben or any decent person in their right mind is happy with the killing of civilians.

515

I posted at the very beginning of this conflict that a woman

516

or a child blown apart in Gaza is just as tragic as a Jewish baby killed in one of the settlements.

517

That doesn't mean that Israel's actions and the actions of Hamas are morally equivalent.

518

The tragedy is the tragedy, but the moral equivalency is nonsense.

519

If you entered Israel with the express purpose of targeting and murdering civilians with your own hands and cold blood,

520

that is not comparable to Israel bombing targets in the Gaza Strip and killing civilians as a terrible, tragic consequence.

521

War is terrible.

522

War is an awful thing.

523

That's why decent people don't lightly engage in war and why Hamas should not have incited this war.

524

We can talk about the history of the Israeli conflict.

525

I'm not a professional political commentator.

526

I'm a CEO.

527

I'm a screenwriter.

528

And I'm certainly not Ben Shapiro.

529

I'm not here to discuss the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but we all saw what happened on October 7th.

530

And the idea that Israel was not going to react severely to that, or that Israel should not react severely to that, is ludicrous.

531

Jeremy, let me ask you the question.

532

Ben Shapiro should be a moderating voice, that Ben Shapiro should be, what, saying, no, Israel should not respond in this situation.

533

That's nonsense.

534

Let me ask you, though, Jeremy, the question which I think is the big question, what is a proportionate response to that outrage on October 7th,

535

which is the worst attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust.

536

What is proportionate?

537

If it's true, as reports are suggesting tonight, that there may have been a hospital hit by an Israeli strike and up to 500 people or more have died,

538

that would seem to me, if that is verified, and it's not verified yet, we don't know exactly what has happened other than there's been a hit on this hospital,

539

but if that is verified to have been an Israeli strike, that will strike many people as disproportionate.

540

Certainly.

541

But first of all, I don't know what a proportionate response is or why we would want it.

542

I suppose a proportionate response would be for 3,000 Israelis to go through the fence, gun down innocent Palestinian women and children, burn their bodies, burn them alive,

543

take hostages, rape their women.

544

No one wants a proportionate response.

545

No moral person could possibly call for a proportionate response.

546

The purpose of war is to defeat your enemy.

547

The West has, in my lifetime, forgotten the purpose of war because the true cost of war is so terrible.

548

The last time the West engaged in war and won it was World War II, and they did it through incredible brutality.

549

They did it by bringing their enemies to heel.

550

That is not a thing to rah-rah about.

551

That's not a thing to look forward to.

552

As I said, all decent people should avoid war.

553

But I think the sort of lie of the post-World War II, the post-war consensus lie, is that somehow war in which you kill a bunch of people

554

and don't secure victory is morally superior to war where you do secure victory.

555

I would say that the only way to morally justify a war is to win it.

556

Otherwise, the very argument that brought you into the war, this enemy must be defeated, ends up being proven a lie.

557

I mean, Afghanistan, I think America had every right to go into Afghanistan.

558

The Taliban was harboring Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

559

Al-Qaeda flew planes into buildings in the United States, killed thousands of our citizens, brought the nation into untold agony, pain and horror.

560

America had every right morally to go in and destroy the Taliban and destroy al-Qaeda.

561

But the Taliban now rules in Afghanistan.

562

The war was not won.

563

But that's my point, actually.

564

I've done a column about this tonight for The Sun here in the UK, which is I was editor of a newspaper when the Iraq war happened.

565

I opposed it very aggressively as the editor of the paper.

566

And sadly, we were borne out by events.

567

It was a complete disaster, the Iraq war, in my view.

568

It was illegally contested, I think.

569

And the consequences were appalling in terms of loss of life, a million people, in terms of ISIS being allowed to breathe and create their merry hell around the world,

570

in terms of complete dismantling of Iraq itself as a functioning country.

571

And I think Afghanistan, again, 20 years of attacking an enemy, which is now running the country again, seemed to me, again, to be kind of pointless.

572

And I do wonder whether Israel, in its blind fury, which I completely understand,

573

has thought through the consequences of actually launching a full air,

574

ground, and sea offensive into Gaza as to actually what happens at the end of that.

575

Well, I suppose Israel wasn't really given the opportunity to fully contemplate what the consequences of

576

that action might be because Israel didn't instigate this war.

577

This war was instigated by a horrible terrorist attack on Israel, and a state is put in a position where it has to respond.

578

Now, one might argue that the very fact

579

that Israel has yet to actually launch their ground invasion means

580

that they are actually making a calculation about what the cost will be, what victory looks like.

581

Any rational person, any decent person can engage in a conversation about what is the appropriate response for Israel.

582

Of course they can.

583

But this sort of moral equivalency thing I don't think is

584

a sign of decency to engage in a conversation about moral equivalency.

585

Let me bring Basim back in.

586

You've been listening to this Basim.

587

What's your response to what Jeremy's been saying?

588

I'm sorry I didn't catch a gentleman's name.

589

It's Jeremy Boring.

590

He's the chief executive of The Daily Wire and co-founder with Ben Shapiro of The Daily Wire.

591

Hi Jeremy.

592

Please say hello to Ben Shapiro and please tell him

593

that I do think he is the smartest person to ever walk the earth.

594

Thank you so much.

595

So as response to Jeremy, I agree with everything you said.

596

I mean, what is disproportionate?

597

I mean, he just used the examples from Second World War and America showing that civilian casualty is...

598

I mean, I heard his voice.

599

He was very sad.

600

And he, as he was telling us, it is so inevitable to kill so many civilians, because it's something that we cannot avoid.

601

I hear the sadness in his voice.

602

And I know that it's a very difficult decision to kill all of these civilians, because that's for a higher cause.

603

And I understand.

604

But my question, I have two questions.

605

The question is, how can you justify the killing in the West Bank where Hamas does not exist?

606

And if the disproportionate response during all of these years have actually worked,

607

what will be new this time that did not happen before?

608

I just want to, that was my question.

609

Okay.

610

That was my question.

611

Okay.

612

So now, So now if I ask the question, can I say something on my side?

613

A little bit personal?

614

Basim, with respect, I gave you half the show to have your side.

615

Jeremy's had a lot less time.

616

I'm going to have to move on.

617

You want me to leave?

618

Basim, I'm going to have to let you go because we've been on air with you for 40 minutes.

619

Okay.

620

Bye-bye.

621

But listen, I'd like to talk to you again and thank you for joining the program.

622

I appreciate it.

623

Oh, by the way, my wife's family is all right.

624

And they sent us a house.

625

It's bombed.

626

It's beautiful.

627

It's going to be a good, like, Halloween theme.

628

Well, I'm very sorry for what your family are going through in Gaza, and I mean that very sincerely.

629

By the way, I don't know them, by the way.

630

I haven't actually met them.

631

They didn't even come to my wedding.

632

They couldn't because they are stuck in Gaza.

633

And she never saw them because, you know, Gaza is not a destination.

634

Bassem, as I say...

635

We hear their voices, and they die.

636

It's fine.

637

It's fine.

638

Bassem, I wish your family all the very best.

639

Thank you for joining me.

640

I appreciate it.

641

I don't.

642

Thank you.

643

Thank you.

O que é a Técnica de Shadowing?

Shadowing é uma técnica de aprendizado de idiomas com base científica, originalmente desenvolvida para o treinamento de intérpretes profissionais. O método é simples, mas poderoso: você ouve áudio em inglês nativo e repete imediatamente em voz alta — como uma sombra seguindo o falante com 1-2 segundos de atraso. Pesquisas mostram melhora significativa na precisão da pronúncia, entonação, ritmo, sons conectados, compreensão auditiva e fluência na fala.

Prática de Shadowing: Israel-Hamas War: Piers Morgan vs Bassem Youssef On Palestine's Treatment | The Full Interview - Aprenda a falar inglês com vídeo

Sobre esta lição

O que é a Técnica de Shadowing?