ฝึกพูดภาษาอังกฤษด้วยเทคนิค Shadowing จากวิดีโอ: 5 Steps to Clear English Pronunciation with Hadar Shemesh - All Ears English Podcast 1447

Hello, and welcome to this episode of All Ears English.

In today's episode, we have a guest.

We have Hadar Shemesh from the Influency Podcast, and she also has a YouTube channel called The Accents Way with Hadar Shemesh.

So in today's episode, we're talking about pronunciation.

It can be frustrating when you learn a new skill, a new pronunciation sound, and you're not able to implement it and see the results in real conversations.

There are some things you need to do first.

So in today's episode, Hadar will show us her five -step system for learning pronunciation

and then making sure that you are able to implement it in a real conversation.

So guys, I hope you enjoy this episode and let's get started.

Hello, Hadar.

How are you today?

So excited to have you on the show.

I'm so excited to be here.

Thank you so much for having me.

Anytime.

Guys, I'm excited to introduce our guest for today, Hadar Shemesh.

She's on the show from the Influency Podcast.

Tell us a little bit about where you're from, Hadar, and what you're doing in the ESL world.

Okay, so as you said, my name is Hadar.

You pronounced it perfectly, and I live in Tel Aviv,

Israel, and I'm a fluency coach and a speech and pronunciation coach, and I'm a non -native speaker of English.

So actually, I am teaching everyone what I have learned myself.

And that's it.

I live in Israel and I work all around the world online.

Awesome.

I find it so inspiring that you have learned English and now you're able to teach us from that experience.

I think as a native speaker, we may take it for granted sometimes, right?

We don't know how we've learned our native language.

And so I appreciate this perspective.

This is awesome.

And today, Hadar, you're going to tell us about how our listeners can take their pronunciation learning out into the real world.

Is that right?

Have you seen this struggle for listeners, for your students?

Absolutely.

So first of all, a lot of people understand that pronunciation is important,

but they don't know exactly how they can actually use it and integrate it into their real life speech.

Also, I see a very common mistake that people think that, okay, once they learn a certain sound on YouTube or in a private coaching session,

they feel like, okay, now I've mastered it.

I know how to use it.

And they expect themselves to use it, you know, effortlessly when they're speaking and they get really frustrated with themselves for not being able to do that.

And I want to say that the part about learning how to make a sound is just the first step, right?

Or maybe second step.

And most of the work is about the implementation and the repetition.

And that part is usually overlooked.

So I want to talk about that today.

Yeah.

I'm glad you're here today to talk about this.

This is so fresh.

Cause again, when we put so much time into something, right.

And we think it should work, right.

We think it should work because everything else, we can kind of learn it and make it happen most of the time, but language is a special case.

So I understand that you have kind of a framework

that you've been working with students on that seems to work based on student experience.

Can you show our listeners how they would go about making sure they learn the pronunciation sounds correctly, and then really getting out there, putting it into action.

How can we do it?

Absolutely.

So first of all, the most important step is perception.

That means that before even attempting at trying to pronounce a certain sound, it is so important to be able to hear it and to recognize it.

Why am I saying that?

Because if someone doesn't have a certain sound in their native language, it's very likely that they won't even hear the nuances of that sound or they'll hear it,

but their brain will analyze it as a different sound.

So it's important to understand that what they're hearing is not exactly how they categorize it

or how they perceive it in their brain.

So they need to perceive it as a new sound.

And as such, that means

that they need to kind of like treated differently in how they think about it and use it.

Yeah.

So perception is really important.

Yeah.

And, and also sometimes there are very subtle nuances in English, like sheep, ship, pool, pool, bed, bad, like, you know,

vowel sounds that don't exist in many different languages, like two different, very close vowel sounds.

And then people usually merge them.

So before you're even trying to make them, they need to hear.

Yeah, exactly.

Again, like you said, we can't hear what we don't know.

And maybe that's why it's so intense for beginners to really understand fast, natural English, because you don't have a sense of any of those sounds.

You don't know what you're listening for.

I love that.

Right.

I love that.

Okay.

Exactly.

And one of the things about improving your listening skills

and understanding native speakers better is like it has to go through your mouth.

When you do it, then this is why pronunciation is so important because when you do it, you're able to understand it better too.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Okay, so this is an important first step.

I feel like it's kind of the foundation, building our house here.

All right, so perceptions number one, Hadar, what will be the next one then?

Well, the next one is very simple pronunciation.

It's the production of the sound.

It's very technical.

It's what you do exactly with your lips, with your tongue, with your jaw, with your cheeks, everything about your mouth.

And every human being can pronounce any possible sound in any language.

It's just a matter of understanding what to do with your articulation organs, which is what I discussed, right?

So let's say you want to practice or improve your R in American English.

So you need to know what the tongue does, right?

Yes.

So you pull the tongue back, the sides of the tongue touch the sides of the teeth.

100

The lips need to round.

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The tip of the tongue shouldn't touch anything.

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So we have these steps that you need to go through.

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And then ideally you practice it a bit and then you get to the right sound.

104

Okay.

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Do you recommend that students kind of mimic, they watch someone pronouncing it and they kind of try to mirror what they're seeing, the way it's being formed in the mouth?

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Or is there, is it more about understanding where to place the tongue and move the lips?

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How would you go about it?

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That is such a great question because it really depends different learners learn

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and improve differently right

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so sometimes I would be like explaining to a student what they need to do

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and they'd be like what and then I just say the sound

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and they'd be like oh you know and repeat it

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and imitate it quickly others need to see a diagram

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and see exactly what the tongue is doing right others need to the the entire explanation

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and some just need a lot of examples and repetition and just, you know, I help them fine tune it by giving them some more imageries or notes.

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So like, you know, sometimes I say stuff like, imagine like you have a hot potato in your mouth, right?

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For some people it'd be like, what?

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And for others, boom, you know, that's what, exactly.

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So it really depends.

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And as a coach, I try to go back and forth

121

and see what resonates with the student and what gets them to make that sound.

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And then I just continue with that.

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Yeah.

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That's so important because there's not one way of learning to make these sounds.

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Everyone learns in a different way.

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And that's so key to really speak to students where they're at, how they learn.

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I love it.

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Okay.

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So we're at the practice stage.

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Hadarsha, then what would be the next step once we've done perception and pronounce, I guess, and then what would be the next step?

131

Well, the next step is building pronunciation confidence, which is also practice, right?

132

Got it.

133

So basically practicing the sound.

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Now, practicing the sound doesn't mean to just say 10 words with the same sound and that's it.

135

Right.

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So you want to be very intentional about the practice.

137

A lot of people practice and drill words, but they repeat the same patterns that they bring over from their native language. Of course.

138

So for example, going back to the R, let's say you're a Spanish speaker and then you have a tendency of saying R instead of R.

139

So right instead of right.

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Right.

141

So you know how to say the R, maybe you have practiced it before, but then you drill sounds and you keep saying run red right

142

and you keep tapping that tongue against the upper palate yeah

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and you don't even notice so and then you just perpetuate that mistake

144

and you build you build the muscle memory of the mistake right like of the it's not a mistake

145

but it's a mispronunciation let's say right like it's not the american r um or the British are.

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So as a result, the person might be practicing, but without seeing the results that they're after because the practice wasn't intentional.

147

So you want to make sure that when you practice, you have some guidance or tools.

148

And it doesn't mean that you have to go and seek for coaching, but you need to just pay attention to look in the mirror,

149

to feel your tongue if needed to record yourself, see if it's different.

150

If it feels too comfortable, usually you're going back to patterns, right?

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If it feels weird and artificial, you're probably on the right track because doing something different will make you feel a little,

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you know, it's going to feel a little awkward, but you practice it enough times and then you make your own.

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I love that.

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That's so important.

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Muscle memory is so powerful in both ways.

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If we do it wrong, we're teaching ourselves very bad habits.

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They're getting cemented, right?

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I mean, I know this in the opposite direction of having studied Spanish for a long time

159

and having lived a little bit in Latin America and then now starting to lose my accent, unfortunately.

160

And so I'm going in the opposite direction.

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And so I can feel that when I pronounce Spanish words, it just doesn't feel natural anymore.

162

And so it can happen in both ways, for sure.

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And it's also the muscles, right?

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Let's not forget that these are muscles.

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So you need to strengthen them.

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It's not like, okay, you're not going to the gym for two years.

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How would you expect to be in shape, right?

168

Exactly.

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I mean, we can build new muscle fibers in our biceps after a few weeks at the gym.

170

So why couldn't we do it with our mouths with making those sounds?

171

I love that mentality.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

174

It should be addressed exactly the same way.

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I love it.

176

And also it's like ongoing work.

177

Like you say, you know, you haven't done it in a while you get rusty

178

and then you're not as sharp and it doesn't feel as smooth and effortless.

179

Yeah.

180

We have to nurture this skill.

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A hundred percent.

182

A hundred percent.

183

Okay.

184

Absolutely.

185

So then this is great.

186

So I love this framework.

187

So then what's our next step?

188

I feel like there are a couple more steps to really make sure we bring it out there with, uh, with out in a conversation really.

189

Right.

190

So now you need to start implementing what you have practiced.

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Let's assume that you've practiced the R and you were intentional about it

192

and you drilled it in words and phrases and sentences, and you tackled challenging transitions,

193

but you feel that you're still not using it in a conversation, right?

194

It's not there for you.

195

You go back to your old habits.

196

So the next step is still like, that's a buffer step, which is, okay, don't use it yet in real life because there's the whole aspect of judgment.

197

And then you think about your English too, and about how to structure the sentence and vocabulary.

198

There's a lot that goes into it.

199

So you want to make it automatic, but also it doesn't happen on its own.

200

So the next step would be to practice on your own.

201

So to record yourself speaking freely or to read out loud,

202

but to focus on one or two sounds and to make sure that you are actually using them, right?

203

So to start using it, not in drills, but in real, you know, in real conversation but I recommend that it's still you on your own, right?

204

Like not you speaking to other people.

205

So there's less judgment and more permission.

206

Yeah.

207

And then, right.

208

So because people are a lot better, you know, they say after there was a research that showed that people who have a glass of wine,

209

their pronunciation improves because not that I'm encouraging people to consume alcohol, but it says that when you're less judgmental,

210

there is more freedom, especially when it comes to pronunciation and English and fluency in general.

211

Interesting.

212

That is such an interesting insight.

213

Yeah.

214

I think this is a step that a lot of students skip and this may be the problem, right?

215

They go from classroom learning, drilling to let's go into the middle of a conversation

216

and a crowded nightclub or party and I should be able to do it, right?

217

And of course not.

218

So I like that you're adding in this step.

219

Right.

220

And so you do it on your own, but you simulate like a real conversation, but you're still safe.

221

And ideally, if you record yourself, I would recommend to listen back to it and to observe your performance. So good.

222

Going back to, you know, the physical activity, even athletes, you know, when they're on the field and they, you know, after a game,

223

they will watch the videos of the game and see their performance because when you're in your body doing whatever it is, when you're on the field,

224

then you're not aware of many of the things or many patterns that you, um, that you tend to go into.

225

And when you listen back to it, like listen to your recording, you can notice a lot of things and then it's a lot easier to, to decide if you want to keep it or change it.

226

To tweak from there.

227

Yeah, that makes total sense.

228

Okay.

229

So now after we've done all of this, we've learned the sounds, we've pronounced them, we've done our, our practice recording ourselves, listening for sounds.

230

What do we do next?

231

I'm guessing that we want to go into the real world.

232

And then, and, and then, you know, so on one hand, if you've done all of that, a lot of the work will show up for you spontaneously.

233

That's the great part about practicing or building pronunciation confidence, but it's going to show up for you.

234

And sometimes you won't even notice that it's there.

235

You'll start getting feedback from people, right?

236

Fantastic.

237

Yeah.

238

But if you want to really seal the deal, then use it intentionally.

239

Every time focus on, as I said, not everything, don't try to integrate everything that you've learned.

240

That's just not going, that's going to make you feel overwhelmed and frustrated.

241

So let's say you worked on R and intonation and TH.

242

So you say, okay, you go into conversation or a meeting.

243

And probably it shouldn't be the most important meeting of your career, right?

244

So you go into a meeting and you have that small talk at the beginning, be intentional about using one or two sounds that you've learned and you've practiced.

245

Because when you're aware of it and you have that voice in the back of your head saying, R, remember the R, then it's easier to integrate it.

246

And then you become confident speaking to other people using using those sounds.

247

Yeah, I love it.

248

I love that we're isolating sounds too, because I think a lot of students just want to improve all of their pronunciation all at one time

249

and go into that meeting, be able to pronounce everything perfectly, which is completely unrealistic, right?

250

It's just not possible guys.

251

So this is a really good strategy.

252

Isolate a couple of sounds, go into that meeting and only judge yourself based on how well you do with those sounds.

253

Nothing else, right?

254

Adar?

255

Yeah.

256

Okay.

257

Awesome.

258

I love it.

259

Do you find that most of your students that you work with are learning American English or British English or Australian English, what is the go -to pronunciation, the accent they look for?

260

That's a good question.

261

I think I mostly attract American students who are more into American pronunciation, but I have a lot of students who also live in the UK and Australia.

262

And then I just help them understand how to tweak it a little bit.

263

But to be honest, it's more about their confidence and being able to be clear, right?

264

So it's less about, oh, sound like an American, sound like a British speaker.

265

So it's just like, understand what are the sounds that are,

266

um, that are preventing you from being clear and delivering your message confidently, right? Or clearly.

267

And it's not just pronunciation.

268

It's also prosody, intonation, rhythm, stress, all of that.

269

So more than like learning certain accent, we learn the building blocks of spoken English, right?

270

Whatever dialect that is.

271

Cause the R is the same, you know, it's just like, there's a few features.

272

It has dropped in British English or Australian English, but it's mainly, you know, the key sounds, the most important sounds are the same across all languages,

273

across all dialects, you know.

274

Yeah.

275

So, so that's, that's important to remember.

276

So I bet our listeners are going to want to hear more from you, Hadar.

277

So let us know where we can find you, find your podcast or where should our listeners go to learn more?

278

Because this is really good stuff that we don't dive into quite as much on All Ears English, but I want to encourage or listeners to pursue this more.

279

Yeah.

280

Well, thank you.

281

And I would love to have your listeners come and join me.

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My website is hadarshemesh .com and they can come and tune in to the Influency Podcast on whatever platform you prefer.

283

You're on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts, all the places.

284

Is that right?

285

Okay, great.

286

So guys, go and find the Influency Podcast with Hadar Shemesh.

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And thank you so much, Hadar, for joining us today.

288

This has been fantastic.

289

I've really enjoyed chatting with you.

290

Thank you so, so much.

291

It's been a pleasure.

292

Absolutely.

293

See you soon.

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ฝึกพูดภาษาอังกฤษด้วยเทคนิค Shadowing จากวิดีโอ: 5 Steps to Clear English Pronunciation with Hadar Shemesh - All Ears English Podcast 1447

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