シャドーイング練習: RTÉ DG says reclassification of Derek Mooney's role as a producer "justifiable" | RTÉ News - YouTubeで英語スピーキングを学ぶ
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Now as you've been hearing,
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Now as you've been hearing,
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another pay controversy has emerged for RTE.
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The broadcaster has revised its top 10 highest earning presenters for 2024 to include Derek Mooney,
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presenter of Mooney Goes Wild,
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after it said it reconsidered what constitutes a presenter.
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RTE says Derek Mooney was designated by RTE as a producer and not as a presenter from 2020 to 2024.
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And then this year, it said it made the decision to consider all personnel holding dual roles
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for inclusion in the top 10 presenters list.
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That meant that Derek Mooney,
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who earned over €200,000 last year, made the list.
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Well, to talk about this and some other issues,
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we're joined now by RT Director General Kevin Backhurst.
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Kevin, you're very welcome.
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Morning, Sarah.
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Hi.
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Anyone in the country, I think,
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who's familiar with RT and if they were asked what Derek Mooney's job is,
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they'd say he's a presenter.
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So can you explain why RT decided in 2020 to classify him as a producer?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, Derek's been a member of staff for nearly three decades with RTE,
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and he's actually been on a radio producer and then an executive producer contract with RTE for a couple of decades now.
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And there was a view taken around 2020 that when they considered whether to put him on the top ten,
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whether he should be classified as a presenter or a producer.
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Now, they took the view that he should be classified as a producer, not a presenter.
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You know, that view, and he's classified in our account system as a producer.
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But when we came to look at it again,
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and we're constantly ratcheting up our efforts to be transparent and as thorough as possible,
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when we came to look at it again,
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we took your view, which is although the majority of Derek's work is actually producing,
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he's best known as presenter,
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and therefore we've now decided that people in hybrid roles where they're producing and presenting
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if they qualify for top 10 should be included as a presenter.
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So are you saying
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when this decision was made in 2020 it was made in
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the context of a discussion as to who should be included in the top 10 list?
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Yes, that's my understanding of it.
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Obviously that was made some time ago by people who are not there anymore.
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But we actually took independent legal advice
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when the issue arose in the last few weeks about the decision that was taken in 2020.
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And the legal advice was that it was a perfectly justifiable decision given that Derek's contract is as an executive producer.
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But we take a different view.
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We think transparency is really important and most people know Derek as a presenter
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and I think we'd expect him to be classified as a presenter even though,
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as I say, I think the majority of his work is as an executive producer.
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Who made the decision?
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A decision was made by me and the leadership team.
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No, sorry, to reclassify him in 2020.
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Oh, well, it would have been made by the then executive team.
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And is anybody who made that decision still working in the organisation or on the leadership team?
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No, no one was aware of the decision and there's only a couple of people left.
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But as has been the case with a few things,
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decisions that were made then were not fully discussed at the executive in some cases.
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I don't know about this one,
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but certainly no one was aware of the decision until we looked into it
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when it arose in the last few weeks as part of the process.
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So no one on the current leadership team was involved in the decision in 2020 to reclassify Derek Minney?
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Okay, you're talking about his role,
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the max salary for a producer in 2021 on the RT pay scale was €90,000.
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So it looks to me like even if he was being paid the absolute maximum for a producer of €90,000,
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the majority of his salary must have still been coming from his presenting role.
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Yeah, look, it's, you know,
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with someone like Derek Way,
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he's had a number of roles,
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and I think as you alluded to earlier on the programme,
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you know, he was an afternoon presenter five days a week on Radio 1,
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for a long time.
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His roles changed over the years.
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Now when people's roles change quite often their salaries change with them.
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I mean certainly during that period where he was on the five days a week on Radio One.
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You know I would say the majority of his work was as was presenting and he's on the staff.
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He's on the staff contract so you know the salary is agreed at the time
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and yes you know but as I say now.
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Sorry Kevin I'll just be clear the question can you confirm
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that when he was reclassified as a producer the majority of his salary was coming from his presenting role?
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No I can't because his salary always covered both those things
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and his role changed over the years and changed
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when he came off the weekday slot on RT1
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and it changes at the moment when he's doing a bit more TV and in the coming days.
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But say he was getting paid the maximum of £90,000 for a producer
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and we don't know exactly what he was on in 2021
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but it would have been close to £200,000 given what it is now.
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Then most of his salary,
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the presenting role must have taken off most of his salary.
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Yeah, but as I say,
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that probably was a historic salary from
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when most of his role was as a presenter
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because his salary would have gone up when he was moved into doing five days a week on Radio 1,
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which was a long time ago now.
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Let's go back to the why of this because 2020 was the same year that a number of presenters,
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including Ryan Turbidey, were asked to take a pay cut.
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And we know now that the management at the time did side deals to ensure
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that Ryan Turbidey's pay was actually higher than was revealed to the public.
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Was this another side deal?
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No, I don't think it was.
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As I say, we've taken independent legal advice on the facts that we know that were available at the time.
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The legal advice is that it was actually a very,
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it was a perfectly rational decision to take at the time.
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As I say, we take a different view because we want maximum transparency for the audience,
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for politicians, you know, who pay for RT.
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We want maximum transparency.
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We want to do what we think appears correct.
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And as you'll have seen yesterday when we published details around the top 10 for 2025,
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First of all, we've done it early because it's emerged.
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We wanted to get it out into the public domain so that people could say, sorry.
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It's very important to say that there was...
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I do want to get back to the timing of all this
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and what has been published and what might be published in the future.
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But if I can just stick on why this decision was made,
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because I think people are really trying to get their heads around that.
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You're saying it was rational and you're saying it was legal.
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I still don't really understand why all of a sudden in 2020 it's decided
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that presenter Derek Mooney should be reclassified as producer Derek Mooney.
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At the time, RT had promised the government to cut presenter pay by 15%.
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So, by reclassifying Derek Mooney as a producer in 2020,
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did that mean he didn't get a presenter pay cut?
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I don't think he got a pay cut,
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but he was on a staff salary.
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He was on an executive producer role already by that stage.
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So, you know, they had been clarified as a presenter when he was doing more presenter than Radio 1.
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All I can say is his contract,
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and I've seen his contract, is as a producer.
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And, you know, that is,
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I'm sure that is at the root of it.
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Okay, I'm just going to try and lay out,
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because it's very complicated for listeners.
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Okay, I'm just going to try and lay out the situation as may have happened, right?
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So we're entering into 2020,
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and it looks like, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong,
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but it looks like Derek Mooney is going to be in the top 10 presenters' paylist in 2020.
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Unless he's changed.
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And suddenly, a decision is made to reclassify him as producer.
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We're being told that's rational and legal,
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but we're not being told why the decision was made to reclassify him as producer.
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I suspect, Sarah.
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And as a result, sorry, I'll just keep going.
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As a result of being reclassified as producer,
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he doesn't get a 15% pay cut.
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Is that right?
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No, I don't think that is.
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I think that's a very unfair gloss to put on it.
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And people are looking for unfair ways to portray this.
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And believe me, like, you know,
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when I've seen things, I've called them out.
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I think the rationale was he fell out of the top 10 presenters in the few years up to 2020.
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As I understand it, in 2020 he would have been back in to the top 10
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and they would have had to take a decision at
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that stage whether he was working majority of the time as a presenter or as a producer.
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And clearly they looked at the balance of his work as we have done recently and the majority of it is producing.
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And you know that was as I say,
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the advice is that was a rational decision to take.
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We just have taken a very different decision because we want a higher degree of transparency for the organisation.
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Okay and just to be very clear then,
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are you saying that that decision didn't affect either way whether
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or not Derek Mooney got the 15% pay cut that would have been handed out to other presenters in the top 10.
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I can't say definitively I wasn't there at the time but I've seen no evidence to show that it did.
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Okay, in terms of the publication of all of this then,
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RT chair Terence O'Rourke said last night that this came to light
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when it was decided to do an extensive check to make
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sure the people who should be in the top 10 list were actually there.
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A lot of people scratching their heads this morning,
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I think Kevin wondering how was this not done three years ago when the first payment scandal hit,
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how do people in the organisation who are in the organisation now not say do we have this right now?
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Do we have everyone who should be in the list on the right salary out in the public?
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Well I think so.
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I mean I think the first thing to say is the last couple of years the focus has been as you'd expect,
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on making sure that those presenters who are in the top ten,
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their salaries are absolutely correctly declared.
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And, you know, because that was where the issue arose before.
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You know, as I started to say to you before,
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we've put a lot more guidelines now
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and we've released them publicly around what qualifies you to be in the top ten and what is included and what isn't.
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And as that work was being done,
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only in the last few weeks,
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someone raised the question of Derek Mooney,
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someone in finance, and we said we need to look into it properly to see,
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you know, how much is he earning,
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would he be in the top ten,
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and if so, is he correctly classified,
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because they said he's classified as a producer.
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So we looked at that.
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The answer was he would be in the top ten.
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Our view was people know him largely as a presenter,
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even though he does a lot of production work,
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and we think he should be in the top ten.
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So what prompted this search to make sure everything was right with someone in finance spotted it a couple of weeks ago.
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Yeah, well, it was a part of all the work that's been going on for the end of year accounts,
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you know, and there's a lot of rigorous work going on,
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not just around the top 10,
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but also around the accounts generally for the organisation.
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This is partly in, this is part of the process to prepare for the annual accounts,
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which are not due to be published until the summer.
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But as I say, as part of that work,
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you know, the top, we,
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you know, we, since I've come in,
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the top 10 salaries are now included in the accounts
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and therefore they have to be verified and agreed by our auditors
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and there's a very rigorous process around it and it was during that process that someone raised that question.
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Have you spoken to Derek Mooney?
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I haven't but my colleagues spoke to him yesterday
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and I think it's important to say Derek played no role in this at all.
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I mean he's you know we told him this was happening
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and he agreed that that was our decision
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but he's played no no role in this at all you know he's just just carrying on with his work really.
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Can you assure the public that this finally is the right information, all of it?
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Well as I said previously,
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it's the very best information that we have available,
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but you know we're working through a lot of information all the time
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and I think the really important thing is if we discover something like this,
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that we're very open and we say we've discovered it,
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we come out quickly.
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I mean literally this was discovered in the last three or four weeks,
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so we put it into public domain yesterday straight after the board meeting.
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Will revised salary lists for the last five years be published,
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the correct salary lists?
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Well they were correct, the previous ones.
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We've revised last year because it's a comparator to this year which is the regular way of doing things in the accounts.
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As I say for the previous years you know there was a judgment made at
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that time which was you know the judgment was justifiable correct at
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that time but we don't we don't agree with the judgment we think there should be different
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So we can't go back and rewrite it because we changed the rules.
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Yeah, I know I understand what you're saying,
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but if you've changed the judgment as to who should be in the top 10 list,
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should you not then change the top 10 list if
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that person was in the top 10 list for the last five years?
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No, as I say, I mean, we've changed it.
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We can't go back retrospective every time we change something,
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go back and rewrite history.
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You know, it is it is there.
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We change what's what's the comparator in the last in the last
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so people can look back to last year for the top 10
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and that's the way that these things are normally done
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but it's not like there was a mistake um at the time
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that we've identified as i say there was a decision we've just taken a different decision
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because we want to be more transparent i want to move on to a separate issue
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because it also emerged yesterday that orti continued to pay claire burn
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and ray darcy after they ceased to work for the organization
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claire burn stopped presenting on rt at the end of october but she was paid 47 000 euro after that
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Ray Darcy stopped presenting on October 9th.
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He was paid €50,000 after that date,
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so it was nearly €100,000 in total.
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This is what RTD Chair Terence O'Rourke had to say about all of this on Prime Time last night.
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Well, their contract said that they were contracted to present until the end of the year,
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and there were different decisions made about when they would stop presenting.
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But if we had, for example,
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if we ceased to pay them,
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I think we would have had some interesting solicitor's letters and all the rest.
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So I think it was a wise,
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right thing for the organisation.
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You paid two people for a couple of months 100,000 euro and you got nothing out of them?
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I didn't do that.
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Management did that and I'm happy to...
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But the organisation did and you were the chair of the organisation.
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Yes, I know.
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And I know the organisation that the management made the decision.
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We questioned the ceiling and challenged the decision.
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I'm happy they made the right decision.
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You're happy that the organisation paid two people 100 grand to do nothing for a couple of months?
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They weren't doing nothing.
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They were available.
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If anything had happened, they would have still been under contract to present.
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So it wasn't that they were doing nothing.
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They were available kevin are you happy
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that management made the right decision oh yeah it was totally the right decision
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and terence is totally right about um presenters although they paid
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a lot of money they also have contracts like like anyone who has employment rights in ireland
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and if they have a contract we need to respect
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that contract you know
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so you know obviously we made the decision in both cases
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um you know they were for different reasons claire was leaving
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and She stayed on after she told us she was leaving for a period.
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But we wanted to take her off there to launch the new Radio 1 schedule,
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so that was our decision.
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And in the case of Ray,
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this was effectively his notice period.
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And I think anyone would appreciate that people have notice periods.
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So if you had decided to wait to launch the new schedule until January,
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you'd have been able to get the services from both Claire and Ray, wouldn't you?
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Well, they were available to work until then,
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but we took a decision.
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We wanted to launch the new schedule.
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It was important.
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The work had been going on.
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And Claire had told us she was leaving anyway.
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So we wanted to get ahead and launch that.
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And it's launched very successfully.
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And there's been very positive feedback about it.
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But people have contractual rights if they've paid a lot of money.
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I mean, the only thing I would say overall is that,
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you know, across the Radio 1 schedule,
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you know, we are now paying less for the total of all the presenters than we were with the old schedule.
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So, you know, we are constantly trying to drive costs down.
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Yeah, a lot of people find that a bitter pill to swallow,
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won't they, looking at 100,000 euro pay to two presenters who weren't working for two months
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because it was made to launch the schedule?
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Well, I think they will if you want to dress it up in that way, Sarah.
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But I think on the other hand,
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everyone, including you, has employment rights.
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And, you know, if we decide that we're going to stop someone working for RTE,
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you can't just chop off their salary that people have notice periods
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and you have to abide by that and
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if people are paid a lot of money unfortunately it costs money
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but you know we have to abide by employment rights and
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if we hadn't by the way
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and we got into a legal fight it would cost us a shed load more money than it did.
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You said the Radio One schedule has been very well received
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there's plenty of coverage in the papers today about the listenership figures
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that were released yesterday they show almost every Radio One show has lost listeners since the new schedule was launched.
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Now I know management have said
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that they expect a fluctuation in listenership given all the changes but was this level of listenership last expected?
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You never know what to expect with Gen Lars
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because the numbers go up and down with each quarter
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so you know we've had a few very strong quarters you
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know the recent figures for Radio 1 were less strong
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but I think you know I think we're right
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that you know new schedules are not the only factor sometimes it can be the news agenda
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or or what else is going on in the world.
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And sometimes, you know, if there's a lot of miserable news,
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people choose not to listen to a lot of news on radio stations.
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So there's a lot of different factors.
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If it continues as a trend,
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say in August, if listenership figures are down again,
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will RT consider changing tack?
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We were very confident in the new schedule.
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And we think, you know,
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we certainly know the feedback is very good.
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We're extremely pleased with how the new presenter lineup is performing on air.
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So, of course, you know,
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you always review things over time.
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But, you know, for now,
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you know, you need to hold your nerve when you make these kind of changes.
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And, you know, I and the leadership team and Radio 1 team are very confident in the changes we've made.
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And as I say, the feedback from listeners,
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which is really important, has been extremely positive.
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Can I ask you finally,
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Ireland won't be taking part in the Eurovision at the final due to air,
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of course, tomorrow night.
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And I know you explained
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that decision last December you said this is on the basis of the massive civilian casualties
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that had taken place in Gaza and also the 200 journalists that were targeted and killed in Gaza.
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So if we look at where we are now,
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there do continue to be significant civilian casualties in Gaza,
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but of course it's a much smaller number than it was before the ceasefire.
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Israel has killed more journalists this year,
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but again, a much smaller number than previously.
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So does that change your calculation for Ireland's participation next year?
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We haven't started to think about it next year and there's a long way to go.
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So, you know, our rationale still holds and civilians are still dying in smaller numbers,
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but they're still dying in significant numbers,
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you know, in Gaza and also in Lebanon.
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And journalists are still being targeted and they still have been up to recently.
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And, you know, for us as a public service broadcaster who believes in the importance of protecting journalists
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and believes in human rights,
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you know, there's no reason at the moment to change our decision,
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but we'll review it in the coming months.
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Kevin Backhurst, I appreciate your time this morning.
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Thank you very much.
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重要な語彙とフレーズ
- 再分類 (reclassification) - 役割や地位を新たに定義すること。
- 人員 (personnel) - 組織における全ての従業員やスタッフ。
- 透明性 (transparency) - 情報が明確で、隠すものがない状態。
- 制作 (producing) - プログラムやコンテンツを作り出すこと。
- プレゼンター (presenter) - 情報を提供する人、特にテレビやラジオで。
- 意見 (view) - 特定の物事についての考えや見解。
- 執行プロデューサー (executive producer) - プロジェクトの総指揮を取る製作責任者。
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シャドーイングとは？英語上達に効果的な理由
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