쉐도잉 연습: how to trust yourself when you overthink everything: understanding OCD ft. Tara Montazeri - 영상으로 영어 말하기 배우기
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A lot of people who live with OCD deal with it only in their heads and in their mind, and that can feel incredibly lonely.
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It's basically a condition where you deal with either unwanted thoughts, it could be images, it could be feelings,
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or discomfort that you want to get rid of.
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Sometimes I wonder how many women have ADHD or OCD or another mental struggle, but they've been rewarded for it for so long.
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With OCD, you can feel like every little thing that someone might look at you and think,
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that's like not a big deal, why do you care?
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It genuinely, I'll say this your body responds as
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if it's a very urgent community is a threat to OCD why
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so I hope anyone who hears this who lives with OCD
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or experiences it knows that you didn't choose this
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and you didn't deserve any of this
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and at the same time you are deserving of living a life
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that feels fulfilling and whatever
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that may look like for you despite it with it even though it's there I'm
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so excited to have you thank you I want to give a little disclaimer to my girls before we start
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because this episode for my ladies listening
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and seven percent men this episode is not meant for you to diagnose yourself okay
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this is not for you to diagnose your husband your situationship your dog anybody in your life okay
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we are here to well
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you are here to increase awareness about ocd to explain to
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us a little bit more about what it actually looks like
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and feels like and just just to have a conversation about it and if anyone feels identified if anything resonates
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let's use
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that as an invitation to be curious not as like a diagnosis okay
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that's all I want to say by the way thank you for
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that well I just feel like these conversations are so layered
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and the questions I'm going to ask you they lack all the nuance in the world
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because we can't talk to every single person.
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You know, I thought we could kick off with a little rapid fire.
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Oh, just like first thing that comes to mind.
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And then I'm sure we'll like unpack it all in the episode.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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One of the biggest myths about OCD is I could say so many,
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but I will say the common one that many people think it's just like a personality quirk.
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Like you're just clean and organized or that it's like a fun thing to have.
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And I'll say this not to like start on a very dark note
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but like most people
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that you talk to who live with OCD not to speak
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for everyone's experience would probably tell you they do not wish
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it on their worst enemy it's not something they probably enjoy having
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and then just to add one in there
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because this is a huge one OCD is not always external
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and obvious a lot of people who live with OCD deal with it only in their heads
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and in their mind and that can feel incredibly lonely and it isn't always external and obvious to anyone else.
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Oh my gosh, I can't wait to unpack that.
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And also my next one was OCD is not.
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So you're ready for that one for me.
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I'm like, I'm doing everything.
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OCD is often mistaken for?
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I'd say generalized anxiety.
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Intrusive thoughts do not mean?
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Intrusive thoughts do not mean that they're true or aligned with who you really are.
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Reassurance feels helpful because?
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Because it relieves anxiety and discomfort in the moment
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and it only adds to a cycle that makes us usually feel worse overall.
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People with OCD need less blank and more blank.
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Less judgment and assumptions about their experience and more curiosity and compassion for what they're going through.
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I love that.
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A beautiful thing about OCD is that you're not alone.
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And for anyone who thinks they're alone in their experience
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and thinks that they're the only one going through the thoughts and themes and it's so specific, you are not alone.
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One thing I wish everyone understood about OCD is?
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Ooh, I'd go back to the beginning that it isn't always obvious
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and you could appear as if you're thriving externally and really, really struggling with it internally and no one would ever know.
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How would you explain OCD to someone who has never experienced it?
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So if I had to kind of put it into words that made a little more sense,
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OCD, I want you to imagine it's basically a condition where you deal with either unwanted thoughts.
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It could be images.
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It could be feelings or discomfort that you want to get rid of.
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So as if something's stuck on you and you just can't let it go.
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And then as a result, we perform a compulsion or an action behavior.
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That's basically what a compulsion is to relieve that feeling.
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So if we imagine the OCD cycle, It's basically an unwanted thought or feeling or discomfort, anxiety.
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And then we do something in response to try to get rid of it.
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And then that creates temporary relief.
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But then that basically feeds back into it.
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And so what we think is supporting us in
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that moment to get out of it is actually feeding into the cycle of whatever you want to call it, right?
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Like with kids or even adults, you can call it a monster.
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You can call it an ex that won't leave you alone.
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Yeah.
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You can call it whatever you want
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but basically it's a cycle of discomfort anxiety whatever it may be relieving
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that trying to relieve that and then adding to the cycle.
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The vicious cycle.
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The vicious cycle of wanting certainty too, which is really hard.
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What do compulsions look like?
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Because I know there are some that are more internal.
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Yes.
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And then some that are more outwardly, you know, that we can see.
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Yes.
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So we have, there's so many compulsions, right?
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But I will say compulsions can be any action or behavior where the function of it is to relieve it.
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So some compulsions will be the ones you hear
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and see like you know you go check to make sure the doors are locked right right or
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reassurance seeking from a loved one constantly asking are you upset with me are we okay
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it could be mental too where we're replaying an event
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or we're constantly trying to figure out the reason to something
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and all of that it could be the most random thing for example like i'm making this up
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you tap your pillow three times and then you go ask someone
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and then you do something like you turn the water bottle a certain way
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and then you say a word in your head so i say
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that because someone might listen and think a certain compulsion doesn't sound like my experience right
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but it can be so random
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but it's just about the function of it what is the function of the behavior
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and so it doesn't have to look one specific way
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but what is underneath it
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and that's what any compulsion can look like it's not a defined list by any exactly it's whatever
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that person is doing to seek momentary relief.
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Yes.
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And so you'll see online
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and I post too about like general lists of ways it may show up and like mentally reviewing things, checking all these ways.
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But overall, it could be anything that is relieving that feeling or trying to seek certainty.
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Could someone have, again, this is not a diagnosis, but could someone have OCD, but they don't know it because their compulsions are so internal?
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Yes.
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And that's incredibly common.
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And both personally, from my experience, that's what my life was.
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I work with many individuals who experienced that.
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I know many people who messaged me who experienced that.
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And generally, that is incredibly common and why a lot of people with OCD don't get diagnosed later until later in life,
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because it can be so internal or they may be rewarded for it.
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So for example, if their compulsions have helped them, you know, in their career or have helped them show up as a great friend
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but internally it's really really difficult for them
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that in itself wouldn't be many reasons for people to go
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and seek support i love that you said that
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because i was going to bring
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that up later of you know i find there are similarities between adhd
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and ocd there are a few overlaps of course they're very different but be it the maybe overthinking,
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the ruminating, perfectionist tendencies, reassurance seeking, right?
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Like there's a need for control, a want for certainty.
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There are certain overlaps.
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So I'm like, oh, because again, not that I'm diagnosing myself, but so many times when I am consuming your content or reading more about OCD,
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I'm like, wow, I feel so identified.
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So it's like, they're so common.
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A, how do we distinguish them?
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B, is it common to have both?
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And C, sorry, so many questions, but going back to the perfectionist,
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what you were saying is sometimes I wonder how many women have ADHD or OCD or another mental struggle,
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but they've been rewarded for it for so long, which I feel like is my experience.
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I'm a very high achieving, high functioning Capricorn perfectionist love that and
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so you know no one thought there was anything wrong with me
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but like inside i'm like guys i'm not okay like i need to do this
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or else but it's what you just said it's like i was rewarded for being
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so type a being so organized getting good grades doing everything it's like yeah
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but inside there's turmoil and the only reason i'm doing
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that is because i am deadly afraid of making a mistake
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or like letting someone else down yes i so many questions no i I so appreciate that.
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And that's like so complex.
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And I will say, you know, I don't have one specific answer on differentiating them, but they have many similarities.
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And very often, even with my posts, people in the comments say like, oh, I thought this was ADHD or this and that.
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And of course, I always make it clear.
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This is just how it can look.
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It doesn't necessarily mean it's one or the other.
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But especially with ADHD, like rejection, rejection sensitivity is such a common thing.
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And with OCD, there's the overthinking and there could be feeling like you need to figure things out.
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So there is a lot of overlap at times.
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And at the same time, that's something I 100 % if whether it's a psychiatrist
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or a therapist working with because it can also manifest differently for people.
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Right.
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And sometimes it could be both or one or the other
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or it could be something else or could be other things that come up from it.
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But I do appreciate you mentioning that.
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And I think many people who listen to that can relate
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because externally you might be rewarded or people might say, that's amazing.
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How do you do that?
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And then when you're constantly rewarded for that, it's almost like, how do I not keep up with that?
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Yeah.
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Right?
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And at the same time, for many people with OCD, it could be a mental prison.
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Right.
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Right? And yeah.
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I had to learn how to reframe.
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I did this in therapy a few years ago.
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I would talk so negatively negatively about my anxiety
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and my therapist was like okay we've already
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we know why you don't like it we know the things
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you don't like about having anxiety being super anxious etc can we just talk about a few of the things
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that are great about it and she made me sit
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and it took me a few sessions to think about what I actually liked about my anxiety
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there are a few things
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but you know there are also beautiful things about it where an example for me is like I listen
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so carefully to what people are saying sometimes I almost hyper focus on the tiny little details
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that maybe some people just don't care about
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but I hold on to the tiny little details
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and then I'll be like at an airport three months later
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and I see this like random hot sauce
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and I'm like oh my god I remember she said this weird her dad loved this hot something like
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that and then I'll get it and then it's a beautiful thing
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because to me I'm like damn is gonna think i'm crazy
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that i remember this but then my friend is like oh my god you remembered you know
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so i'm like well okay i love
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that my my anxiety helps me remember really special tiny my new little thing details about people
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and then i can make them feel special i'm wondering what are things about your ocd
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that you actually love hmm that's a great question
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if there are any if there are and yeah i love
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that and i i will say and i'm sure many people's ocd can resonate
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that it's been such an intern it's been confusing through my own experience
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because there was a point where it really took me especially after understanding
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it was OCD where I had to sit
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and think like is this part of like who I am
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and what I value my personality or has it been OCD
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and that in itself is like another layer of trying to find certainty
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and at the end of the day that part doesn't necessarily matter
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but there can be before I answer that question there can be grief with
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that of trying to understand the parts where it's held me back maybe from experiences
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and other parts where it's helped me show up in ways that I'm thankful for.
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And for me, honestly, there are similar things where like, I feel like I really like to think I'm thoughtful and I remember things.
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But the biggest thing I'd say is really just the community of knowing that other people are not alone.
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And I post and people say they feel less alone, but they don't know that I then feel less alone from their comments or their experiences.
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And so I think just in general, like I'll be cheesy here, the human experience of knowing that as hard as it is,
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we aren't alone in it.
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And I do post a lot of content with humor, not to diminish anyone's experience or minimize how difficult it can be.
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But it's like when people say like, I'm going to either laugh or cry, you know, like we're doing what we can.
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And I think that in itself can remind each other that like, I'll say this, I always compare it to like the Wizard of Oz,
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like, you know, behind the curtain, you're like, this is some random dude, like he's really not that scary.
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Yeah, that's how I feel about OCD specifically.
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And so when one other person witnesses your experience, or one other person can see it or vice versa,
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it you're kind of taking away the curtain, pulling it back and reminding others like, we're not alone in this.
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And so I, you know, I don't necessarily have a specific part of ocd that i love
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but i do have a lot of compassion for myself
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because i think at the end of the day that's me
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and ocd tries to make me doubt myself but
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that in itself i'm still pushing through
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and connecting with people i kind of went all over
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that no i love that and i think
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so i think the reason why people love you
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and love your content so much one of the reasons is because you do humanize it.
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It's like, let's just, there's an elephant in the room, you know, and let's just make it fun.
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Cause sometimes like, what else are we going to do?
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And we can sit here and talk about all the things that we don't like and the hard parts about it,
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which is so important and it makes people feel less alone.
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But also I think bringing a little bit of light to it is also, you know, like you said, if we don't laugh, we'll cry.
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Well, we'll cry.
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And I'm like, I like to, you know, it's poked fun at me.
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Like I always say OCD kind of is like a bully
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and when you're finally like oh you're like really not
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that scary like i do that with grief because i lost my dad
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so like 14 years ago and for
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so long i did not bring it up
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because i didn't want to make anybody in my life feel
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uncomfortable like i didn't want my friends to feel uncomfortable
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and now i'm like you guys i gave you all
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so much vacation time now i'm gonna make all of you feel bad for me
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and now i send them the craziest the craziest memes and every like on father's day I'm like, do you guys feel bad for me?
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I'm like, listen, like, I'm already going to be depressed about this for the rest of my life.
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I might as well just kind of make it a little fun.
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And my friends are like, my friends are sometimes like,
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I kind of wish I missed the days when you did not make us feel bad about this.
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But you know what?
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Sometimes humor with something like that.
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And I so appreciate you like sharing that with that or with OCD grief, whatever it may be.
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Like, it's almost like a window to like open the conversation because sometimes it's hard to be like, hey, I want to talk about my dad.
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Yeah.
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to do that when it can feel really hard right
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but to like add that in there
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and then for someone to check in on you
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and then to have
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that conversation like i think it's those human thing you're right these are sometimes some subjects
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that a lot of people don't know how to approach
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and a lot of people don't know how to talk about grief
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or mental health because maybe they've never experienced it
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and i do think humor is a way to lessen the you know just make it not as serious yeah
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and give people a little window to be like it's okay it's okay
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if you say the wrong thing we can just like kind of laugh about it
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and I'd rather talk about it
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and maybe you learn how to talk about it as well
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you know I want to talk about how OCD shows up in everyday life
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I want to talk about how like walk me through I
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don't know can we walk through like a morning in your life of maybe a day
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when you're really struggling with it like what does it actually look like or feel like
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so I'll give like an example so once again it can look
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so different for
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so many people where sometimes it really grabs onto like one area of their life yeah one theme
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and then for others it's just so intertwined
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so i'll kind of give an example of what we call
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and this is just a name of a subtype that's not its own diagnosis
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but like optimization ocd for example because there are
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so many subtypes right oh how many i mean
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so many like i i don't have a like the limit
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does not exist the limit does not exist like sure we have like certain ones like just like clinically we talk about,
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but none of them are like under a specific diagnosis.
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It's all OCD at the end of the day.
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I'd call them like nicknames for different themes.
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So that's why there's kind of like no limit.
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But we have like relationship OCD, harm OCD, right?
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Like so many different themes that come up.
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But talking about it, like as an example, I'm going to just like role play as if I'm OCD.
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Okay.
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I love it.
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Because these are like the kind of videos I love to make.
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It's easier to say it that way.
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I love your videos of like waking up with OCD.
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Those are my favorite ones.
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Like when you do the narration of it.
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I love it.
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Thank you.
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And I'm like, let's hope I don't freeze here.
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But like, for example, you wake up, it's like, okay, you already woke up too late.
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Oh my gosh, you missed your alarm.
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Oh, you're doing everything wrong.
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Get up.
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No, you have an appointment at 3 p .m.
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And this is where it can really overlap with ADHD too, right?
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Of like the list there.
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But waking up, you're doing things wrong.
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Like, what are you doing with your life?
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It's like sense of urgency, right?
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Like, okay, do you know what you're going to do?
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Like, did you text your friend?
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Okay, what about that weird thing you said?
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You need to really think about it okay let's go look
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up how to do this no no no the oat milk is like this i said
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this in my video too like put almond milk instead of oat milk like almost to a point where everything seems
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like your everything feels like it has meaning yeah with ocd can feel like every little thing
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that someone might look at you
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and think that's like not a big deal why do you care yeah
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it genuinely i'll say this your body responds as
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if it's very urgent you guys know
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i'm always trying to make my home feel like my little sanctuary i feel like we're so intentional about our skin care,
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So if you feel like, for example, I put the wrong milk.
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Okay, that now ruins the whole day.
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I've contaminated and ruined the whole day.
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What's the point of doing the next thing?
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You do the next thing.
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Okay, now that's ruined.
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But because you didn't do that one thing at noon, 4 p .m is ruined because you didn't get ready for your appointment at this time.
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You're like nodding.
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No, I'm like, this is every day of my life.
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Yeah.
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Or like, for example, like to add a relationship example, your partner does something, they make a mistake or do something that like bothered you,
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but like isn't something extreme for the average person, right?
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And then your brain goes to like, what does this mean?
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Like, while I'm here, I'll give you an example of something my husband did.
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And I've said this in many of my podcast episodes.
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Like one time he brought back avocados and he like didn't, or no, he forgot avocados from the grocery store.
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And my brain had convinced me that like,
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he is going to be the reason I die in my deathbed when I'm older because he'll forget my medication.
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And it went from like, he's forgetful about that to he doesn't care about you.
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I get it though.
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He's inconsiderate.
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Like I can take those leaps as well.
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It went all the way there where I even like knew it was ridiculous.
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Yeah.
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But I was like, my body was panicking.
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So there's also that thing with OCD where like, there can be a logical part of you that's fighting with that part of your brain.
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Yeah.
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And you can feel like so much guilt and shame.
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And now I've gone on to 20 other question.
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I pray for the day my brain lets me enjoy being alive.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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Clip that.
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Jesus.
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Yesterday, I was texting this man.
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He was like, what are you doing?
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And I'm like, honestly, I've been staring at two crewnecks deciding what I want to wear to the airport.
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I flew in this morning.
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I'm like, I don't know if I want to do the black crewneck or this one with the hoodie, because if I do the hoodie,
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then I can wear the hood.
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But if I do the crewneck, then I can do this but then
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if I don't do I went he was like you're not okay
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I'm like well that's nothing new we already knew that
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but it's like I hate how some decisions can really feel
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so polarizing and it's like life or death like they become like these life
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or death moments and situations how do you
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when you're having a day like that with
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so many thoughts I'm sure there are so many tools
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or medication I'm not sure what the what different solutions exist but what Which helps?
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So, and I feel like I say this with every question, but it really looks different depending on how debilitating it is for someone,
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how much it's impacting their day -to -day life.
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For me, a big part of it has really been the acceptance of them being there and not necessarily needing to respond.
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So I really compare it to someone texting me.
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And in the past, I would respond and react to every single text.
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I would need to prove to them, oh, I'd give them a whole list of why either should choose that or choose that.
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And then here and there they throw like a violent image of something
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or like something I didn't want to see an intrusive image in my head.
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Right.
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But before it's almost as if I needed to respond to every single text.
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And now I'm just like, go ahead and text me and I'm going to just choose something.
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And you could be texting me and then I'll panic and say, you chose the wrong one.
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You chose the wrong one.
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It's ruined.
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It's ruined.
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And then I'm going to say, okay, okay, it's ruined.
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Like that's when I roll my eyes and then I do the next thing.
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I do the next thing.
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And it's so hard at first because if you feel like you've been responding to that person, whatever we want to call it,
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kind of to externalize it for so long, they're not going to like when you don't respond to them right away.
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They're actually going to get louder.
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They're going to bring in the bigger, more intense themes that you're probably going to feel so uncomfortable with
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but over time they learn that they don't have the power.
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So there are days, I won't lie, where it feels harder not to, but overall as I've started to live my life
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and do what feels aligned with me and be okay with not necessarily even knowing what that is,
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that in itself has just like made it easier.
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Because I just, even saying it, I'm like, oh they're there, but they don't bother me in the same way.
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Like I enjoy my life even though they're there.
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And sometimes they're a lot more quiet
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and they come in they're like oh maybe you never lived with ocd
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and that's when they try to like even poke at you more like i feel like i'm talking
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so fast why oh you're not why why are our brains
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so rude no they're just so rude and please explain no i know
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and then i i'm sure like talking to
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that guy he was like i don't know what that's like
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i feel the same about my husband how do you put your head on the pillow
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and sleep like right away that's to me
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that's a serial killer no do you know the amount of things I need to go to sleep?
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I need a medication.
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I need probably let me sleep gummies.
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I need white noise or brown noise.
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I need the HPLX68.
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I need a fake scenario to imagine in my head.
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I need to be really tired.
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I need magnesium.
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I dread when I have to go pee in the morning.
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I'm like, no, it's up.
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Like it's up.
436
I'm like, please.
437
I mean, I try to like keep my eyes closed.
438
It's.
439
So I'm like, it's up.
440
I like try to keep my eyes closed.
441
I'm like, I'm still asleep like literally sometimes my brain
442
i'll like go bathroom in the middle of the night
443
it's like you know everyone in your life's gonna die at some point like
444
but if they die tomorrow i'm like you know i don't feel like it right now no i honestly
445
if someone could listen to my thoughts all day
446
first of all i'd probably go to jail
447
but second of all they would feel so bad for me yeah
448
because it's almost like a uh
449
it's a mental battle right all day of having to convince yourself no this is fine
450
and this is my experience with the list of uh struggles
451
that i have that i mentioned but it's like all day
452
if it's not perfect my brain is always telling me I could have done better yeah with everything
453
and so I've had to learn how to similarly quiet the narrative
454
and also remind myself like you know
455
I think smart women have really smart inner critics your inner
456
critic isn't going to be this like dumb bitch who doesn't
457
know what she's saying she's going to say logical things she's not going to be telling
458
you like damn you suck no it's going to be way more specific and way more
459
objectively really really intelligent and so it's really hard to not listen yeah
460
so I'm always trying to battle with that
461
and just remind myself like every thought isn't necessarily true it can just be information
462
and also I always have to go back to just evidence in my brain of listen
463
I can I have I've had this experience whether it's with my body with work with my grades with anything
464
my brain always wants more yeah she's
465
so greedy yeah like she always wants more
466
it could have always been better it could have always been done in a better way
467
so I'm like you know what it's never enough anyway I might as well just yeah
468
and it's taken me 32 years to get here
469
and you know what props to you
470
because for many people they wouldn't even be able to get to
471
that point or understand that or have the support
472
or tools to even get there can I add something to what you said
473
because I think that's so relatable and I think it's
474
so helpful to know that as hard as it is
475
that it's there because a lot of our goal is for many people is to quiet
476
that yeah fair enough because it's so painful
477
and we don't want to deal with it
478
and I think the best thing we can do to support us in
479
that is to show up how we want despite it
480
and I think one of the things OCD or not with our thoughts
481
when they're hard on us want us to believe that like they're in control yeah
482
And when we remember that like at the end of the day, my thoughts actually can't like take action.
483
My thoughts can tell me, don't show up to the podcast.
484
You're gonna look like a fool.
485
Are you gonna do this?
486
I'm gonna say, I'm going.
487
Like, okay, I'm gonna do that.
488
It's the knowing that even though it's going off and they're texting you or saying these things, whatever we wanna imagine it as,
489
you are still doing the thing.
490
And sometimes that's where the fun can kind of come in of like, screw you, I'm doing this anyway.
491
Well, for me, I've had to take action
492
because for so many years and there's still things
493
that I'm not doing because of the thoughts maybe they win
494
or the inner critic wins but for so many years I didn't take action
495
and I feel like that was only reinforcing those thoughts right
496
because it was like oh I believe them
497
because I'm not doing these things and obviously that's layered right but for me now taking action and then having a,
498
I learned this word, a corrective emotional experience or having a positive outcome.
499
I'm like, oh, see, I really like data.
500
My brain really likes information and evidence.
501
So I'm like, see, it's okay.
502
Like I always have to be like, oh my God, remember that.
503
Remember that next time you're freaking out about this.
504
Remember that this time it worked and it was fine.
505
Yes.
506
And then honestly, that's what I do.
507
Okay.
508
I mean, I love that.
509
And I, I think that in itself goes to show
510
because a big part of I'll say specifically with OCD is it wants you to not trust yourself.
511
Yeah.
512
And it's a big lack of that self -trust in that moment.
513
And so, for example, with something like that, there may be a time where the evidence doesn't match what you want it to be.
514
And then your brain might say, there you go.
515
Yeah.
516
One out of a thousand times, 999 times you did it well and you succeeded at one time.
517
See, we were right along.
518
But that in itself to me is not a reflection that the thoughts are right, but just a reminder that you trust yourself and even
519
that time or the many times that it doesn't go how you expect it to, you'll get through that.
520
And I think that's the bigger thing where a lot of us with OCD, we want the certainty of like,
521
here's the proof, here is the evidence to know that this will happen, as opposed to that honestly might happen.
522
And I always hate saying this, but I lean into like, my husband might leave me,
523
I might leave him, not that either of us have the intention, but it's leaning into the fact
524
that like I literally just can't read the future no
525
I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow there's a world where I'm not therapist tomorrow
526
so I don't know what's gonna happen
527
but that's not saying it's true it's just saying
528
that I don't know and whatever does come my way I trust
529
that I will deal with it and I trust myself to show up in ways
530
that align with my values and who I am today all our brain really wants is like the certainty yeah Right.
531
And unfortunately, life just doesn't you can't get certainty in anything.
532
Yeah.
533
So you might as well, instead of searching for the certainty, remind yourself like, I don't know, I'm never going to know 100 percent.
534
But what I do know is I'll figure it out.
535
A hundred percent.
536
You know, can we talk about how OCD shows up in our interpersonal relationships?
537
I was listening to one of your episodes
538
and you were talking about friendship and you said community is a threat to OCD.
539
Why?
540
I just post sometimes as if it's only my mom.
541
But it's weird, right?
542
Because even for me, like sometimes I'll record and then I post and then I'm like,
543
oh, I forget that people are actually gonna listen to this.
544
I'm like, what did I say?
545
Because sometimes - Yeah, like maybe a friend from home is like, oh, I was like, oh, that's not for you.
546
Why are you listening to that?
547
That's for people who don't know me.
548
No, that's very sweet.
549
And a big part of that is, especially with OCD, once again, it's such an isolating experience.
550
Like so many people who live with OCD
551
have so much shame around the thoughts and the themes
552
and what come up for them and so when you have community and Once again,
553
I'm going to compare it to someone who wants power over you, whether it's a person or an ex or whatever we want to call it.
554
Once you start to have people who are like, hey, you're not alone in this and we don't have to necessarily do what it's saying.
555
It starts to see it as a threat.
556
So when you start to like actually get support, whether or not it's from someone who lives with OCD just in general,
557
that's when it starts to lose its power.
558
And obviously it's very nuanced here because sometimes community, even well -intentioned, might reinforce what OCD wants.
559
How?
560
For example, if you're participating in a compulsion and a loved one sees that you're uncomfortable, right?
561
They're like, okay, let's do whatever you need to do.
562
Or I'll say whatever you want me to say.
563
Or yeah, we're going to make it okay.
564
Just to make it okay.
565
Because as humans, of course, we see our loved ones who are in pain or they're uncomfortable or it's not always so simple.
566
Like sometimes it'll be someone crying in the corner.
567
Like, do you love me?
568
Like I need to do this.
569
It has to be this way.
570
When someone tries to ease what what they believe is your, well, it is your discomfort, but they believe they're supporting you.
571
It reinforces, it can reinforce OCD.
572
And so it's very tricky.
573
Searching for reassurance.
574
Yes.
575
And going to someone for the reassurance and they think they're doing something positive
576
because you want reassurance and they're giving it to you.
577
Meanwhile, it's just reinforcing it again.
578
Yes, 100%.
579
And it doesn't mean I make that very clear.
580
It doesn't mean you're gonna look someone in the eye and say, no, I'm not.
581
Like it's not that everyone's different, but very often it's not that black and white
582
and it could look like supporting someone through how hard
583
that experience is without feeding into the content of it
584
so for example if someone were texting you
585
and you didn't want them to be texting
586
you you don't necessarily need your loved one to say oh let's dive deep into every specific text
587
and figure it out they can support you in saying this is awful
588
that you're going through this and that they're even reaching out
589
so it's focusing more on the experience of what ocd feels like as opposed to the actual content
590
which is what it wants it wants you to get sucked in
591
and sometimes it wants you to kind of pull up ones in
592
and it's it's really hard
593
because it's not always clear can we talk to someone who is maybe struggling with ocd
594
and maybe they're dating somebody new or they're making new friends
595
or they're trying to go they're trying to deepen a friendship
596
and this is something
597
that it's a big part of their life vulnerability is very difficult for them
598
and certain topics are more taboo for them
599
so can we talk about just ways
600
that you can share this with someone new
601
and yeah do it in a way where you're not necessarily asking them to solve you know figure you out
602
but just more so like I just want to share something about me
603
and maybe if you know in the future if I do x y
604
and z then you'll know why you know I think that's a great question because that's so hard for many people
605
And I think there's also a misconception that we have to share the details of the thoughts of the loved one.
606
And that's another compulsion with an OCD is confessing often where like for many people with OCD,
607
we feel like we have to share every detail or I'm a liar or this and that.
608
Right.
609
Like with ADHD, it's over explaining.
610
Yeah.
611
Well, because I don't want you to I don't want you to think anything wrong.
612
I'm going to give you every you know how they say like people who are lying give all the details.
613
I'm like, no, I am not lying.
614
But I just have this need to tell you every, I don't know what a short story is.
615
I'm gonna tell you every single detail.
616
I get that.
617
I totally get that.
618
And I think, I mean, depending on the context, that can help, right?
619
For someone to feel less alone.
620
Like if you're in a therapeutic setting, whatever it may be.
621
So it's definitely depends on the situation.
622
But someone can actually support you in living with OCD without knowing the details of the thoughts.
623
So it's not to say that you don't share it, this and that but it depends also on the function are you sharing it with them
624
because you want to relieve your own guilt or anxiety
625
or you feel like they have to know are you
626
or are you sharing it with them
627
so they simply understand how difficult it is to live with it
628
but i would focus less on the content once again
629
and more on the experience of what it feels like
630
so for everyone it's different some people describe
631
it as like i feel stuck on a hamster wheel
632
sometimes my thoughts just make me feel like i'm stuck on a hamster wheel
633
and i cannot get off yeah or it feels like I need to do something a specific way.
634
Or I just start to have like all these thoughts and images that I don't want that feel so scary and confusing.
635
I just really want to support people
636
and like giving a visual of what it feels like for them
637
because it's going to feel and look different for each person. Of course.
638
And then sharing it with a loved one.
639
And also maybe going through the very valid grief that like as much as we explain it,
640
someone may not exactly understand because if I could tell you, like, even when I said that, like the example of a morning,
641
I was like, that was like 20 seconds of the day.
642
And that was like kind of the lighter part.
643
So like all to say you're allowed to also grieve and go through that process of knowing that like,
644
they may not ever fully understand the full picture, but you can still be supported.
645
And there are people who also understand what it's like.
646
I really love how you prefaced, you don't have to explain every single detail about it.
647
You don't have to overshare every single thing about it, but painting a picture to someone that you love and that
648
and for someone who is close to you I think is valuable
649
I want to talk really quick about social media because I think
650
it has been so beautiful in the way that it has highlighted so many different
651
struggles that we all have and it helps us again feel less alone and I love that
652
conversely I think we're all diagnosing ourselves on TikTok
653
and we all think we know everything right
654
so it's like I feel like it can also be kind of damaging
655
and we throw around these labels like they're nothing sometimes.
656
I would love to know, and I'm sure there's a list, what specifically about OCD that you see online, what bothers you the most?
657
What narrative bothers you the most?
658
Oh my gosh.
659
I'm like, that's like five podcasts.
660
I'd say one of the main ones is that kind of going back that it just presents in one way.
661
When people say like, oh, this is just what OCD looks like.
662
I'm always and it's not to say that that doesn't affect people in that way.
663
Yes, sometimes it can really affect like cleanliness and being orderly, all this stuff.
664
But when people portray it as just that or once again, I've seen, oh, this is one came to me.
665
I've seen people kind of make jokes like I love that.
666
Like my partner lives with it because now I don't have to worry about cleaning or just like.
667
Oh, yeah.
668
It's one thing to put humor around it.
669
And it's another thing to assume someone's experience.
670
And that is what I think hurts the most to see.
671
And I've gone in on my own videos where people said this is not what mine looks like.
672
This isn't accurate or it's not real.
673
And I hold space for the fact that that comes from pain and I carry compassion for that.
674
But it's also difficult because everyone's experience looks different.
675
My experience is going to look different than someone else's experience.
676
There may be overlap, but there is someone who shows up.
677
And it doesn't make your pain any less real.
678
Exactly.
679
Just because it doesn't look the way whoever wrote that comment.
680
Exactly.
681
And for example, it's very common with like the mental compulsions where someone might say this is an OCD because you have,
682
it has to have obvious compulsions.
683
And like there can be compulsions that are internal.
684
And there's been this like very common phrase like pure OCD, which has been pure obsessional OCD.
685
But we've started to like steer
686
i feel like just in general a lot of um ocd professionals have start to steer away from
687
that not to speak for everyone everyone's experience is different
688
and for like some people having a diagnosis really supports them
689
and helps them get the treatment that they need and do exposure
690
and response prevention and do different types of treatment
691
that help them for some people they don't have a diagnosis
692
but they still are supporting themselves as long as they understand the function of the behavior
693
and getting the support they need it's just there is no one size fits all.
694
And I think one thing that does bother me is whether it's professionals
695
or not policing each other on how someone's experience should be.
696
Talk more about that.
697
It's very easy to look at someone's experience and say, once again, this is an OCD or this is,
698
or you have this or you have that.
699
And to like diagnose people they've literally never met, whether it's in comments or they respond to someone's comments.
700
But I will also say, I want to add like a part that I enjoy
701
because I feel like I'm only complaining about it it's been
702
amazing to see other people support each other to see of course
703
there's like a limit of what I can ethically do like I don't you know give advice in DMs
704
or you know respond to certain things
705
but I do see other people can say like I have a group
706
that I've made or a group chat for people
707
so we're less alone or we're going through this experience and
708
that in itself like if one thing I post
709
or what someone else posts can be a vessel for other people to like meet each other
710
and get community while they also get the professional support they deserve
711
and not everyone I know has access to but
712
that in itself is just so beautiful
713
and I'm like beyond thankful for the page and I get overwhelmed
714
because I'm also human and I'm like I could make the longest caption of just disclaimers
715
but I'm like there's only so much I can say there is only
716
so much you can say
717
and someone is always going to find an issue with it you know
718
and at the end of the day that's not who you're trying to speak to yeah right
719
and i i feel like
720
if we try to speak to everybody we're not going to speak to anybody
721
and the people you have found people that understand what you're trying to say
722
and there's always going to be someone who wants to fight
723
and who needs hobbies clearly
724
and i respond the same way i do with my ocd thoughts
725
which is like you know do your thing
726
but i don't need to like go back and forth with you
727
or like even give you the power by talking about it right
728
What do you wish people highlighted more about OCD online?
729
I wish people definitely highlighted more how it does show up mentally.
730
Like I feel like that's a big theme I talk about, but how it affects relationships and a lot of people around you.
731
Because OCD does not just attach the person.
732
Sure, they're the ones dealing with it, but it can incredibly impact families, partners, kids of parents who are undiagnosed or don't understand
733
or parents of kids who they're trying to support like it really really can latch on to
734
so much more than the person experiencing it and of course the person experiencing it can carry so much shame and guilt.
735
And that's also something I wish we talked about is the amount of shame and guilt is unmatched, unmatched.
736
And there's like the extra shame of like, I want to control this, but we can't.
737
And it's so easy to see it as a reflection of you.
738
And so I hope anyone who hears this, who lives with OCD or experiences it, knows that you didn't choose this
739
and you didn't deserve any of this
740
and at the same time you are deserving of living a life
741
that feels fulfilling and whatever
742
that may look like for you despite it with it even though it's there
743
and you're not a burden to other people like you are the one dealing with this
744
and sure we all can show up in ways we don't feel proud of as we learn to navigate it
745
but it is hard and so I hope people can have more compassion for themselves
746
and knowing there's no handbook as we grow up of like you may live with this
747
and this is what it's like and it may not be obvious to other people
748
and you might get rewarded for it to just have more compassion for ourselves in it mic drop wow
749
i was gonna ask you what you would say to someone who maybe was recently diagnosed
750
or someone who was understanding more about ocd and what it entailed
751
and what you wish that they would remember
752
and you just kind of killed it with
753
that like that's sweet those words were so beautiful
754
and this is why i love having these conversations honestly
755
this is why i started a podcast was i can't shut up to save my life
756
but also because i'm like okay i've been through such hard things
757
that i know in the moment i feel like i'm the only person in the world experiencing these things
758
and then once i started talking about them i'm like oh my god
759
so many people be it grief or eating disorders
760
or mental health struggles whatever it is like
761
so we're all unfortunately struggling with something yeah and And though that doesn't make your pain any less painful,
762
it does, we, I feel like as humans, we exist to be in community.
763
And it does feel nice to know you're not alone.
764
There's so many people that have these issues and struggles and it's just like a part of life, right?
765
So I love everything you said.
766
I wish I had a better question, but you kind of just like killed it with that one.
767
Can I add to that though?
768
Now that you mentioned that, I also want to put out there that like forever who,
769
for anyone who, whether it's ADHD or OCD or just in general,
770
they're starting to understand their experience or they've been through something traumatic and they're understanding the impact,
771
you are allowed to grieve the ways it's affected you in other areas of your life.
772
And to look back, even to this day, as much as I feel thankful for where I am and I wouldn't change a thing,
773
I do look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, like that one opportunity I didn't take or
774
that one belief I had that I thought was so real or the guff feeling or I had to leave,
775
whatever it was and that I thought was so true
776
that was all from those thoughts that I didn't understand right
777
and it's so easy to isolate yourself in that experience
778
and really think like I post videos where I think no one is gonna this is
779
so niche and specific no one's gonna have any of these thoughts
780
and once again I'm gonna look like
781
that therapist who is like going off on here
782
but then those are the ones where like I did not think anyone else was thinking
783
or feeling that and then it's just a reminder
784
when I go out and I see people on planes
785
and the movie theaters wherever we are in the world
786
and thinking everyone else seems like they're just so put together
787
and have it calm sure maybe some people are and that's amazing
788
and there are people who like from the outside I think
789
sometimes I can appear like I have it all together externally
790
if I show up and I'm just calm
791
but like little do you know what just went on my head the 10 steps
792
that went on the fact
793
that I was like oh my god pass out this is gonna happen
794
and just being able to like know that you're not alone in the wild mind wherever it takes you.
795
You really I say this all the time.
796
You have no idea what someone is going home to.
797
You have no idea what someone is thinking, what it took for them to get to wherever they are with you in that moment.
798
And I know that because I am the living example of just I don't mean to be a hypocrite,
799
but like I will go through the craziest shit.
800
Yeah.
801
And then I'll just go to the supermarket and be best friends with everybody at Trader Joe's.
802
And I'm like, oh, they probably thought I was so cute and fun.
803
Meanwhile, I'm like going home to the craziest things that I have to deal with.
804
And I'm like, okay, if I can put on a show like this, everyone else can too.
805
So it's like being a hypocrite.
806
That's human and that's survival.
807
And that's survival.
808
Yeah.
809
It's 100 % survival.
810
But it's like, you never know.
811
Yeah.
812
You never know.
813
Like it could be the funniest, cutest girl in the room.
814
And she could still be going through hell, you know?
815
So it's like, you never know what anyone is carrying.
816
Yeah and that's also kind of scary yeah you know that's also kind of scary because
817
i feel like we just all have to be i think
818
when i went through my eating disorder that really changed everything for me
819
because i was rewarded for so many years for the behaviors
820
that were enabling my eating disorder yeah
821
so one thing i will never do now is like compliment
822
i mean i will compliment women obviously i love telling them they're beautiful
823
but i'm so careful with the the words that I use or the questions that I ask or things that I notice,
824
I'm so careful with it.
825
And so I just think.
826
because you just have to be
827
so careful you don't know what you don't know what you're complimenting
828
when you say something to someone yes and
829
that could apply to any struggle you know
830
so 100 just to psa to be you know mindful with your words
831
but um my last question for you i'm
832
so sad we have to wrap you're so fun to talk to
833
and i wish i could talk to you all day um what
834
and this has nothing to do this can be related to ocd
835
it cannot whatever okay you can answer this however
836
you want the only rule for this question is you can't be humble
837
when you answer it okay that is so hard
838
because then my thoughts are gonna be like yourself let's let's
839
tell them to just give me one minute my own like
840
exposure exercise here okay let's do it exposure work right now okay
841
if your younger self could see you today what do you think would make her the proudest
842
oh i love that oh now i'm like the opposite i'm like um i think we can schedule another hour
843
aside from like truly at the end of the day I think she would be proudest of
844
showing up and being vulnerable and being human
845
and authentic despite my thoughts despite what other people say
846
and despite it maybe not being what I thought
847
it would look like I started I'm really proud of not just specifically my page
848
and podcast but I started that and I think some people who follow me don't know that,
849
that I started this before I went to grad school.
850
I was just lost and confused.
851
And I was like, hey, let's talk about like just feeling lost and confused in life.
852
And I remember feeling so much shame for like not knowing what I was doing exactly.
853
Like, is this embarrassing?
854
All that stuff.
855
And I, you know, I had people who would judge me and I had people make comments,
856
people in my life who would be like, what are you doing?
857
And I pushed through because I was like, I don't know where this is going to go or what it will lead to,
858
but it just feels so authentic and
859
so I'd say I'm most proud I think she'd be really proud of how true to myself I've stayed
860
and at the end of the day like obviously degrees all this stuff are great but
861
I think at the end of the day the part of
862
just being true to yourself like for me will take over any of
863
that I'm so glad people like you exist
864
and have platforms I swear I feel like some people were put on this earth to tell stories
865
and to be storytellers and I feel like that's what you're
866
and you've built such a beautiful community of people who feel so safe with you.
867
And I'm also so glad that you're a therapist because you're gonna help a lot of us. So.
868
Oh my God, can we do this once a week so I can feel better about myself?
869
No, because literally I go through phases where I'm like, I'm gone for a week or I'm spiraling for this and that.
870
Yeah, but that's crazy to me that you would feel like, don't doubt what you're doing at all, truly.
871
Thank you so much.
872
And you are so truly, I know we just met today in person, but you are so warm in the work you're doing like whether
873
or not you get a degree or do
874
that work you are still making a huge impact
875
and i hope you remember that and it's
876
so easy to be like you have to do it in one way
877
but there's no yeah i'm trying to figure that out
878
so you actually just helped me with what you were saying
879
because i'm like i don't know what to do next
880
but we'll see and that's okay yeah it's okay i really believe like
881
if you just each day there's so much pressure me like going on another
882
but last i think there's so much pressure to know i'm like
883
if each day you really just show up authentically i think
884
there's a weird way where things just work out
885
i know how you guys love there you guys therapists love to say you have to sit on the discomfort.
886
I'm like, I've been sitting in the discomfort for like 10 years.
887
I want to sit in the comfort.
888
How about sitting in the comfort?
889
I take a lot of my own thoughts.
890
Like after a session, I'm like, I need to listen to what I said to myself and I need to do the exercise.
891
Oh my gosh.
892
Thank you so much again.
893
Thank you for having me.
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같은 채널
FOR YOU
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이 레슨의 어휘와 말하기 포인트
이 말하기 레슨은 영상 “how to trust yourself when you overthink everything: understanding OCD ft. Tara Montazeri”을(를) 바탕으로 합니다. 이 영상에는 섀도잉할 문장 893개와 단어 10333개가 있습니다. 말하는 구간의 길이는 48:57입니다. 화자는 분당 약 211단어로 빠르게 말하므로 연음과 약하게 발음되는 소리가 많습니다. 단어의 86%가 영어에서 가장 많이 쓰이는 3,000단어에 속합니다. 나머지는 연습 전에 미리 확인해 두세요.
이 영상의 핵심 어휘
영상에 나오는 익혀 둘 만한 단어 15개를 발음, 뜻과 함께 정리했습니다.
| 단어 | 발음 | 뜻 |
|---|---|---|
| anxiety 명사 | /æŋˈzaɪ.əti/ | 걱정, 불안 |
| reward 명사 | /ɹɪˈwɔɹd/ | 상, 보수 |
| certainty 명사 | /ˈsɝtn̩ti/ | 확신 |
| ruin 명사 | /ˈɹuː.ɪn/ | 폐허, 유적 |
| diagnosis 명사 | /daɪəɡˈnəʊsɪs/ | 진단 |
| grief 명사 | /ɡɹiːf/ | 비애, 슬픔 |
| remind 동사 | /ɹəˈmaɪnd/ | 생각나게 하다, 상기(想起)시키다 |
| scary 형용사 | /ˈskɛə.ɹi/ | 공포의, 무섭다 |
| uncomfortable 형용사 | /ʌnˈkʌm.fɚ.tə.bl̩/ | 불편하다 |
| podcast 명사 | /ˈpɑdˌkæst/ | 팟캐스트 |
| therapist 명사 | /ˈθɛɹəpɪst/ | 치료사, 세라피스트 |
| compassion 명사 | /kəmˈpæʃ.ən/ | 동정 |
| guilt 명사 | /ɡɪlt/ | 죄, 유죄 |
| humour 명사 | /ˈhjuːmɚ/ | 유머, 해학 |
| reinforce 동사 | /ˌɹiː.ɪnˈfɔːs/ | 보강하다 |
영상에 나오는 구동사
| 단어 | 뜻 |
|---|---|
| go back 동사 | 돌아가다 |
| look back 동사 | 돌아보다 |
| come up 동사 | 올라오다 |
| get up 동사 | 일어나다 |
| go out 동사 | 나가다 |
| put together 동사 | 조립하다 |
따라 말해 볼 만한 문장
영상에 나오는 짧고 완결된 문장으로, 일상 대화에서 그대로 쓸 수 있습니다:
- A, how do we distinguish them?
- How do you do that?
- You know what I mean?
- He was like, what are you doing?
- I'm like, what did I say?
이 영상의 문법
화자가 가장 많이 쓰는 문형을 영상 속 실제 표현과 함께 정리했습니다.
| 문형 | 영상 속 표현 |
|---|---|
| 현재완료진행 have/has been + -ing — 전에 시작해 지금도 계속되는 동작 | I've been staring · you've been responding · I've been sitting |
| 현재완료 have/has + 과거분사 — 과거의 일이 지금도 관련이 있을 때 | they've been rewarded · has never experienced · have helped |
| 수동태 be + 과거분사 — 누가 하는지보다 무슨 일이 일어나는지에 초점 | they've been rewarded · is not meant · are locked |
| 관계절 who / which + 절 — 사람이나 사물에 대한 추가 정보 | people who live · anyone who hears · anyone who thinks |
주의할 발음
화자는 I'm, don't, you're 같은 축약형과 약화된 형태를 379번 사용합니다. 들리는 대로 짧게 발음하세요.
- “th” 소리: therapist /ˈθɛɹəpɪst/, bother /ˈbɑðɚ/, thankful /ˈθæŋkfəl/, authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/, breathe /bɹiːð/
- “sh”와 “zh” 소리: compassion /kəmˈpæʃ.ən/, gosh /ɡɑːʃ/, exposure /ɪkˈspəʊ.ʒə(ɹ)/, medication /mɛdɪˈkeɪʃən/, friendship /ˈfɹɛn(d)ʃɪp/
- 긴 단어 — 강세 위치에 주의: necessarily /ˌnɛs.əˈsɛɹ.ə.li/, anxiety /æŋˈzaɪ.əti/, incredibly /ɪŋˈkɹɛdɪbli/, uncomfortable /ʌnˈkʌm.fɚ.tə.bl̩/, medication /mɛdɪˈkeɪʃən/
한국어 화자가 어려워하는 소리:
- /f/ — ㅍ(/p/)으로 바꾸지 말고 윗니를 아랫입술에 대기: discomfort /dɪsˈkʌmfɚt/, grief /ɡɹiːf/, uncomfortable /ʌnˈkʌm.fɚ.tə.bl̩/, reinforce /ˌɹiː.ɪnˈfɔːs/, thankful /ˈθæŋkfəl/
- /v/ — ㅂ(/b/)과 구별하기: relieve /ɹɪˈliːv/, overlap /ˌəʊvəˈlæp/, survival /sɚˈvaɪ.vəl/, wherever /(h)wɛɹˈɛvɚ/, narrative /ˈnæɹ.ə.tɪv/
- /z/ — ㅈ이 아니라 성대를 울리는 /s/: anxiety /æŋˈzaɪ.əti/, confused /kənˈfjuːzd/, confuse /kənˈfjuːz/, ease /iz/, phrase /ˈfɹeɪ̯z/
이 영상으로 연습하는 방법
- 먼저 말하지 않고 영상을 끝까지 듣고 모르는 단어를 적어 둡니다.
- 0.75배속으로 한 문장씩 섀도잉을 시작하고, 익숙해지면 보통 속도로 돌아갑니다.
- 자신의 목소리를 녹음해 원본과 비교하고, anxiety, reward, certainty 같은 단어에 특히 주의합니다.
쉐도잉이란? 영어 실력을 빠르게 키우는 과학적 방법
쉐도잉(Shadowing)은 원래 전문 통역사 훈련을 위해 개발된 언어 학습 기법으로, 다언어 학자인 Dr. Alexander Arguelles에 의해 대중화된 방법입니다. 핵심 원리는 간단하지만 매우 강력합니다: 원어민의 영어를 들으면서 1~2초의 짧은 지연으로 즉시 소리 내어 따라 말하는 것——마치 '그림자(shadow)'처럼 화자를 따라가는 것입니다. 문법 공부나 수동적인 청취와 달리, 쉐도잉은 뇌와 입 근육이 동시에 실시간으로 영어를 처리하고 재현하도록 훈련합니다. 연구에 따르면 이 방법은 발음 정확도, 억양, 리듬, 연음, 청취력, 말하기 유창성을 크게 향상시킵니다. IELTS 스피킹 준비와 자연스러운 영어 소통을 원하는 분들에게 특히 효과적입니다.