쉐도잉 연습: Why You Should Be a Techno-Skeptic | Jonathan Haidt | TED - YouTube로 영어 말하기 배우기
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So to begin, I invite you all to remember a time in your life,
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a period in your life when you felt fully integrated into a group.
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Maybe you were on a sports team,
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maybe you played in a band,
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or maybe you just had a great group of friends that loved to hang out together.
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Or maybe it was at work,
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maybe you were part of a team trying to do something big and difficult under time pressure,
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but you all pulled together.
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Whatever it was, My question to you is, does that memory glow?
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Do you look back on that as something special and magical that time in your life?
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The great biologist E.O.
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Wilson says that humans aren't just social, like dogs and chimpanzees.
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We are ultra-social, like bees and ants.
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We have a massive division of labor,
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and we love to do things that put us in a mindset of one for all,
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all for one.
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Yet our hives aren't made out of wax.
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They're made out of shared culture and shared experiences.
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My talk today isn't really about bees and ants.
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It's actually about technology and childhood.
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But let's see what we can see about technology and childhood if we start with this premise
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that human beings are ultra-social creatures with deep needs for community and communion.
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As a social psychologist who studies the effects of digital tech on young people,
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what I see from this perspective is very concerning.
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I think it justifies a general sense of wariness or skepticism about the technologies that are pushing their way into childhood today.
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So let's start with social media.
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In the early 2010s, teens traded in their flip phones for smartphones,
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and the phone-based childhood began.
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Their social lives moved on to social media.
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At first we thought this would be fine, maybe even better.
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But quantity pushes out quality,
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and they started spending a lot less time with each other in person.
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And that's a problem for our ultra-social species,
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because a lot of our evolved bonding mechanisms involve our bodies.
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So we connect with people,
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we bond with people when we eat with them,
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when we share food with them,
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when we share laughter, when we move together in synchrony,
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even if it's just walking next to each other and we bond together when we touch.
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But when everything moved online,
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teens across the developed world lost most of those bonding experiences.
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Levels of loneliness and anxiety began to rise almost immediately,
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in many countries simultaneously.
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And this wasn't just an historical correlation.
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There are now multiple lines of evidence showing that social media is causing harm at an industrial scale.
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One line is the dozens of experiments showing that when you randomly assign people,
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these are usually with adults,
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young adults, when you randomly assign people to greatly reduce their social media use for at least a week,
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their levels of anxiety and depression go down.
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And one of those studies was done by Metta.
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But what I've learned in the last two years is that I grossly understated the damage in the anxious generation,
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because I focused on the mental health outcomes.
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That's where we have the best data,
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that's where we're doing the most work.
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But I now believe that an even larger damage is the diminishment of the human capacity to pay sustained attention.
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One-third of all American teens say that they're on a social media platform almost constantly,
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just throughout the day.
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And the main thing they're doing on those social media platforms is watching very short videos.
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Young people call it brain rot,
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which is a funny term,
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but it might really be true,
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because the adolescent brain is always a brain that's being remodeled.
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The neural network of a child has to convert itself,
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has to rewire itself to become the neural network of an adult.
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And that rewiring process, the neurons finding each other,
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that's shaped by whatever you're doing every day.
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And it's shaped by whatever everyone else says is prestigious,
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which means that puberty is the worst possible time for a human being to be on social media.
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For our ultra-social species, that rewiring should be guided by huge amounts of social interaction in the real world,
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not by TikTok's algorithm.
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I imagine there's a lot of parents in the audience.
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So here's the first principle of what we might call techno-skepticism.
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Protect brain development through puberty.
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That's why it's so important for countries to follow Australia's example.
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Let's just raise the age for opening social media accounts to 16, as Australia did.
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All right, now let's look at edtech.
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Of course there are good uses of technology in education.
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My kids have learned a lot from Khan Academy.
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But I'm very concerned about what happened when we started putting computers and tablets on kids' desks.
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This is the so-called one-to-one device policies.
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Computers and tablets are multifunction entertainment systems.
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If kids can get to the internet,
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they will play video games and watch short videos,
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watch YouTube shorts and even porn.
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As soon as we brought in one-to-one devices in the 2010s,
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national test scores began dropping in the USA,
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and they dropped in many other countries,
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especially in the countries that most firmly embraced edtech.
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Now, I can't prove that these declines were caused by the screens and the apps that we put on kids' desks.
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But consider this.
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Sweden led the world in digitizing education in the 2010s.
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They got rid of textbooks,
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they put a device on every desk.
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They even mandated that nursery schools had to use tablets.
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But after years of experience and years of declining test scores, Sweden reversed course.
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In 2023, they announced that they're going back to textbooks,
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they're pulling out a lot of the devices,
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they're going back to books and handwriting,
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especially in the earlier grades.
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Their top research institute, the Karolinska Institute,
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issued a report backing the government's position,
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saying there is clear scientific evidence that digital tools impair rather than enhance student learning.
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And consider this, many of us professors are banishing computers,
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laptops from our classrooms.
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My students at NYU say they learn a lot better when people aren't on devices.
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They don't have a computer and the multitasking staring them in the face.
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But if college students can't learn that well when there's a computer in front of them,
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how do we expect eight-year-olds to do it?
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School is an intrinsically social experience.
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Students are not learning machines.
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They're ultra-social human beings who need to connect with their teachers and their fellow students.
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They don't need to connect with more screens.
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So here's the second principle of technoskepticism.
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Prioritize people and books and education, not screens.
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We should never have let laptops and tablets spread through K-12 education without extensive testing and evidence of safety and efficacy.
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But we're about to do the exact same mistake with AI.
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You see the pattern here?
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We let social media companies take over our kids' social lives,
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and they've harmed our kids' social lives and their mental health.
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We let edtech companies take over our kids' schools,
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and they appear to be doing more harm than good.
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Now, AI companies are coming for their relationships,
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to be their friends, their therapists,
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and even their sexual partners.
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What could go wrong?
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We're already seeing massive cognitive offloading and learning loss.
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When students have access to AI,
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they pass the critical thinking over to the AI.
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We're already seeing young people becoming dependent on ChatGPT to make their personal decisions and to draft their texts and their emails.
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And we're seeing a booming AI toy market.
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Chatbots are being put into dolls and teddy bears.
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And these chatbots are super responsive to the child.
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They're always there to offer comfort,
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to be there for the child.
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And of course, the parents are often busy.
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But if the chatbot is super responsive while the parents aren't as responsive,
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the child's attachment system, which is looking for who in my environment is the person who responds to me,
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may well imprint or focus on the chatbot,
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which is going to compromise their relationship with their own parents.
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So here's the third principle of techno-skepticism.
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Just beware of artificial relationships for minors.
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Give them nothing that conveys that it understands the child or that it cares, because it doesn't.
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There could be a role for AI therapists someday,
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but how about we require years of testing before we let anyone push it out into childhood?
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All right.
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Now, I've just told you that we need to greatly reduce the role of these technologies in our kids' lives.
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And some of you may be thinking,
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now, hold on a second,
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I want my child to be successful in the digital future,
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in the digital workplace.
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So why not give them a head start?
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Two reasons.
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The first is that these technologies are extremely easy to use.
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Your kid doesn't need a 10-year head start to master social media and AI.
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And second, because now we know that being a digital native does not confer an advantage.
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For many kids, it's a curse,
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because it messes with the kids' attention systems and their motivational systems.
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It teaches them that there's always a little bit of reward,
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always a little bit of dopamine available,
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one swipe away, and that undermines the ability to do difficult or sustained cognitive work,
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like reading a book.
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I teach a course at NYU called Flourishing,
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and two years ago we were talking about attention fragmentation,
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and one of my students,
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who's a very heavy TikTok user,
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she said, yeah, I take out a book,
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I read a sentence, I get bored, I go to TikTok.
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So if we want our children to be successful in the digital future,
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we need to protect them from the damage being done in the digital present.
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So let's return to the hive.
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What do we see when we look at technology in childhood through this lens?
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When we start from the premise that humans are ultra-social,
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What we see is that these technologies are being built by people who don't understand that premise.
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They think of people as consumers with social needs that can be satisfied by machines.
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They think it's good to free people from dependence on other people.
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Let's suppose, just for the sake of argument,
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let's suppose that they really can give us excellent friends and excellent romantic partners.
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In fact, just yesterday at lunch,
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Esther Perel told me she recently did her first couples therapy with a mixed couple,
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a human male and an AI female. So is this liberation?
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Do we no longer have to depend on other people to meet our social needs?
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Would that make us happy if we don't have to depend on others?
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Absolutely not, because that would mean that nobody depends on us.
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Nobody is relying on us.
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We are not important to anyone.
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So is this our fate?
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Is there any way to stop this lonely digital future?
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Yes, there is.
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When The Anxious Generation came out two years ago,
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one of the main objections I got was that I was too late.
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The technology is here to stay, people said.
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You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
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But in the last few years,
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humanity has mobilized, and we are putting the genie back in the bottle.
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Mothers were the first to organize and take action,
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but they were quickly joined by fathers and by a lot of Gen Z activist organizations,
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and also by many governors and many heads of state.
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Together, we're getting phones out of schools around the world.
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Thank you.
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Teachers are so thrilled to get their students back,
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and one of the things that they tell us,
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it's the most common thing we hear,
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we hear laughter in the hallways again.
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We're getting the age raised for social media to 16.
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More than a dozen countries have already committed to following Australia's bold example.
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And we're seeing parents letting go and trusting their children to ride bicycles with their friends
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and to do errands so that they can feel useful.
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I'll give you one example.
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A mom in Utah gave her seven-year-old son the let grow challenge.
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That's where you say to the kid,
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what's something that you think you can do on your own?
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And her son said, I think I can go into a Chick-fil-A restaurant and get us lunch." So she says, OK.
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And in the video, you see the mother sitting in the car.
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You see the kid coming out of the store,
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and he's got the bags and he's got this huge smile,
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and he comes into the car and he says, that was so fun.
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And then the mom says, were you nervous?
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And he says, yeah, my legs are still shivering,
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but I want to do it again.
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So these are the stories, these kinds of stories.
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This is what most moves me and what most thrills me,
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because this movement is not primarily about technology.
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It's about reclaiming childhood in the real world with real people.
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So what on earth do we do about the robot teachers
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and all of the other future waves of technology that are going to push their way into childhood without adequate safety testing?
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It sometimes seems completely overwhelming.
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So let me repeat the three principles of techno-skepticism.
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One, protect brain development through puberty.
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Two, prioritize people and books in education, not screens.
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Three, beware of artificial relationships for minors.
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I think techno-skepticism is the right attitude for people today,
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especially for parents and legislators,
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because when it comes to children,
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these companies have earned our distrust.
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Technoskepticism means that from now on,
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we put the burden of proof on them.
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Let them prove that their products are safe.
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We treat them like any other maker of potentially dangerous consumer products.
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We make them prove that their products are safe before they push them out into the world.
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And we hold them responsible ...
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We hold them responsible for their safety lapses.
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So in conclusion, human beings are ultra-social creatures who need to matter to one another in order to flourish.
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We are so brilliant that we've invented technologies that can replace us,
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that can take us out of each other's lives.
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But human connection is not optional.
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It's who we are.
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So we're going to have to fight for a future in which our children can grow into flourishing, connected adults.
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Thank you.
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Do you disagree with anything I said?
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We agree in spirit 100 percent.
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And that's where my question is, actually.
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We have talked about this in the past, even before TED.
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But how extreme would you go?
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What would you say to someone that would make the argument,
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even put Khan Academy aside,
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if a student is writing their paper,
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if they're editing video, if they're doing something creative,
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and they're building some skills in the process,
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isn't there some middle ground that might be okay?
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Well, it depends on the age.
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So if we're talking elementary school,
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I would say no. I would say it's so clear,
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kids need to learn basic skills,
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They need to develop a habit of books.
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There's all this research on how print is better.
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For elementary school, let's just get rid of all the one-to-one devices,
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go back to books and paper.
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The people who made this technology,
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they choose, a lot of them choose to send their kids to schools that don't have it.
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So when we're talking about young kids,
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I say just no. Like,
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until it's proven safe, no. But I think we learned something really interesting today.
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So that, I forget her name,
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that amazing woman in Africa, who's giving tablets.
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Imagine worldwide, yes.
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So note, no internet.
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That's the key.
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And I said to you,
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like, years ago, I said,
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Sal, if someone would make a device that just had Khan Academy,
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you could not go to YouTube,
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you could not do anything, that would be amazing.
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We agree.
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So anyone raising money for this, anyone want to?
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Someone has to make this.
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Do you agree with that?
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I was fishing for that all night, so yes, thank you.
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Thank you.
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No, well, thank you so much, Jonathan.
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A super important conversation.
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Thank you.
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Thank you, Sal.
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Thank you.
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- community - 공동체
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