Практика Shadowing: Elon Musk vs. OpenAI: Testy exchanges fill day 2 of trial - Изучайте разговорный английский с YouTube
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Elon Musk back on the stand in his suit against OpenAI, he says they strayed from their original non profit mission.
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Elon Musk back on the stand in his suit against OpenAI, he says they strayed from their original non profit mission.
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He's also saying a lot of other things.
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CNN's AI correspondent Hadas Gold at the trial in Oakland with the very latest.
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Good morning to you.
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Hey, John, we are entering in Musk's seventh hour of testimony in this blockbuster trial against OpenAI that could completely change the future of the AI landscape and could potentially change the future for the ChatGPT maker OpenAI.
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Each side yesterday spent their time questioning Musk and trying to prove their side, whether he was deceived when he donated $38 million to OpenAI.
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And then they turned their nonprofit into having a for profit subsidiary, or whether he always wanted OpenAI to go for profit in some way, but that he left when he couldn't control it anymore, and that this lawsuit is just about him trying to bring down a competitor since he has his own AI company, x AI.
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At one point yesterday, Elon Musk told the court, I was a fool.
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He says I needed to make sure that OpenAI would go in the right direction, and I was providing almost all the money, he says. I was a fool.
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I gave them free funding to create a startup.
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Another piece of evidence that Elon Musk's lawyers introduced was a series of messages between him and opening Axios Sam Altman in 2022.
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After a Microsoft investment, OpenAI was fired at $20 billion and must hold on what was going on here?
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And Altman responds, I agree, this feels bad.
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Musk told the court that that interaction, he said it felt like a bait and switch.
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But on OpenAI's cross examination, which started yesterday, their attorneys went to Musk and said, hey, here's some emails.
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Here's some meeting notes where you say that OpenAI, I should probably go for profit.
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This is the only way they're going to get enough money to run all of that really expensive compute to be able to compete properly.
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They even showed meeting notes where he directed some of his executives to actually go and register a for profit corporation.
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Musk told the court that in some cases, he just didn't recall those conversations.
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And then other times he says he wasn't opposed to a for profit subsidiary as long it was a capped profit.
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There were some fireworks in court.
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I don't think Elon Musk is used to being talked to in the way that an attorney might cross-examine a witness on the stand.
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There were some tense moments.
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At one point, OpenAI's attorney was trying to ask Elon Musk just yes or no questions, and Elon Musk was saying, you can't answer these with yes or no questions.
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He said, your questions are not simple.
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They're designed to trick me.
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And then he made the classic fallacy of have you stopped beating your wife comparison.
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But the judge was not going to go there and she cut him off completely.
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Today, Elon Musk is going to be back on the stand.
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We expect another two hours of so of cross-examination and redirect.
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He is definitely one of the star witnesses in this case.
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This case is going to go on for another couple of weeks, and we're expecting to hear some of the biggest names in tech, including Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella and then OpenAI CEO Sam Altman will come up in the next coming weeks.
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Joining me now is CNN contributor and host of the podcast On and Pivot.
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Kara swisher.
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Kara, I've been eager to talk to you because OpenAI is lawyers.
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They argue that Musk is just he's just bitter over how successful the company became after he left the board.
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I mean, do you think Musk has a legit argument here?
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No, I mean, he did initially.
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I was around during that time and they did start the company to put that, you know, far above Google and Facebook and other companies who they thought would dominate.
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But it changed pretty quickly when they realized what was going on.
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And I think it's just I think they're correct.
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He's bitter that he sort of flounced out of there, and he very clearly signed the papers saying he was leaving.
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He wanted control.
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They said no, he left and thought they were going to fail and then they didn't fail.
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And so it's it is bitter sort of party of one.
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I think they're accurate in that.
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So this idea of a personal, maybe grudge match for Musk, because there was a lot of testy exchanges today between Musk and OpenAI's lawyer.
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I mean, the judge even had to intervene, saying things like, can we just stop and have people stop talking all over each other and let's everybody calm down?
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I mean, obviously it was obvious in the courtroom.
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Yeah. I mean, in that case, the lawyer won because one of the things Lee Hoenig talked about is that these billionaires aren't used to being questioned and questioned strongly because everyone around them agrees with them violently.
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And so he's not used to that of someone pushing back.
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And so he he's not he's hasn't done it in years because everyone says, sir, how smart you are.
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Reminds you of anybody else.
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And so that's a problem for him.
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And and to get him testy is really important to show his personality.
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Because already a lot of the jury when they were doing jury selection says they don't like him.
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And he's moved from when he when OpenAI started to a hero in tech to a villain to many people and not everybody but many people.
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And so it's a very difficult thing.
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And he's showing that on by getting agitated.
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He shouldn't get agitated.
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And of course, it's impossible for him not to because he doesn't have self-control.
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I mean, he has been trying to position himself as someone who was always concerned about AI safety and wants to protect humanity.
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And he actually told GQ that he has, quote, extreme, extreme concerns over AI and that it could also kill us all.
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We don't want to have a Terminator outcome.
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You buy in that. Yeah.
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Oh that's true.
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We talked about it many years ago.
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I think it's a change because then he rushed off and started his own company, which has severe problems of non, consensual sexual images, child pornography.
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Twitter is a is a sea of disaster porn and white supremacy and Nazis running around and he's let them on.
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So if he cares about safety he would run his his other things correctly.
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But he went on off and raised money for Gronk and he's doing all manner.
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He's in lawsuits about how they do the data centers.
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So he cares so much about the human race.
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He wouldn't be abusing it so much you know.
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And so I think he looks he looks maybe he's changed his mind because he was absolutely genuinely concerned and I think still is.
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And there there was a story today which I've talked about previously in the New York Times about, cyber experts being scared about a bioweapon being created by these companies.
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And so, you know, it's terrifying.
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And he's they all were concerned, but they don't care because they're in search of the more money, even though they're incredibly, obscenely wealthy, they want more money.
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And so or they want to win over each other.
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And that's what this is really a grudge match because he was stupid enough to, you know, to run out of the room because he in a peak and Sam Altman turned it into something he never thought he could do.
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And so that's really what this is about.
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So I want to see where it goes.
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But yeah, their competitors, their competitors.
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So that's what you have to keep in mind.
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CNN contributor Jacob Ward is a technology journalist.
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He's the host of the RIP Current podcast and joins us this hour from Oakland.
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It's good to have you with us.
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I also like having you put this in context for us because, first of all, bring us into the courtroom and what it's like in this moment.
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I saw at one point you said it was all very Silicon Valley for those of us on the East Coast.
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I mean, put that put that into perspective, because this almost seems like a crazy divorce playing out, but with fascinating parameters.
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Yes. If Mom and dad or in this case, Dad and dad were the richest and most influential people in the world, then this would be the divorce.
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That's right.
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It would be a weird divorce that you'd be at the center of.
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I mean, the thing about it, Erica, being in that courtroom, I mean, American courthouses are so great because there's no velvet ropes, there's no VIP bathroom. All right?
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I had to wait in line for the men's room next to Sam Altman in the weird, awkward way that men sometimes have to do.
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And that alone was weird.
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Musk going up and down the courtroom, corridors, because there's really no place to hang out with his security detail.
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And the reason it's also very Silicon Valley is that there's this funny combination of corporate jargon and this kind of ruler of the world sort of language.
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So at one point, we were shown an exhibit in which Musk was writing back to Altman back in 2017, when they were first kicking around the idea of a nonprofit, and they were talking about what the corporate structure of open AI might be.
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And Musk said at one point, I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said, we could have a board of, let's say, 12 people, but we might need to expand it to 16 depending on how much of the world's fate rests on its shoulders.
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I mean, literally, you know, he's not saying this is a joke.
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He's saying if we needed enough people to deal with the technology that might upend the economy and the world as we know it, we'll add an extra four people to the board.
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So it's this funny mix of of business jargon and sort of science fiction language that I think really defines this kind of trial.
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Yeah. And I think it leaves a lot of people scratching their heads wondering if this is reality. Right?
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Is this really the way that people are doing business?
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Is this the way that, you know, two of the most powerful men on the planet are conducting themselves and deciding on the future of not only a company, but potentially the impact on a lot of average people.
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And and to that end, what is the potential impact here?
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Well, the short term impact for OpenAI is that if Elon Musk gets his way, you know, the monetary damages make no difference to a company worth 720, whatever it is, billion dollars at this point, maybe $72 billion.
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I mean, it's incredible how much money they are throwing around.
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It's so late in the night, I can't even remember what it is.
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But it's in the hundreds of billions and you have, you know, a but but if he was to be able to depose, you know, knock off Altman and Greg Brockman, the president of OpenAI, which is one of his plans, then that would be a competitive advantage.
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And it could derail OpenAI's plans for an IPO later this year.
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That's the short term effect.
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But, you know, the part for you and me is the fact that, you know, there's been almost no democratic input into the acceptance of AI into our lives.
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You don't really get any say.
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And so the fact that nine random Oakland residents, people that live here in my city, have some input into how this is going to go is a really interesting thing.
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But I would say, you know, the theme that I saw over and over again in the testimony is this theme of clearly two gentlemen who are very concerned with who gets credit for this world changing, industry changing company, and this feeling that there's really, you know, there's you.
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Musk was so triggered at one point by OpenAI's lawyer, Mark Savit, who basically said, well, what kind of contributions were you really making?
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You didn't make technical contributions here, and you could see my head pop off.
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The idea that he wouldn't get credit, much less technical credit for this clearly makes him crazy.
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And so there's a there's a real there's it's not just about the competitive advantage between Elon Musk's companies and and the OpenAI company.
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It is also I think, a question of credit and legacy, which is, of course, the defining thing for so many people here in Silicon Valley.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Bragging rights.
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And, and a healthy dose of ego as well.
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Jacob Ward, really appreciate it.
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Thank you.
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