Shadowing Practice: How Bible Scholars Challenged my Christian Faith - Learn English Speaking with Video
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I've spoken before how some time ago I was a committed Christian
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and then some years after that I embraced and looking into some of the issues in the Gospels, looking into them more academically,
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I discovered some seriously challenging issues.
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are very, very challenging if you're a conservative Christian like I was.
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I was a born-again, conservative, Bible-believing Christian, pretty fundamentalist, actually.
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I believe the Bible was the word of God, all of it, without any errors.
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I believe Jesus was God, that he died for our sins, and that he was God incarnate.
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I believed in the Trinity, and so on.
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I've spoken before how some time ago I was a committed Christian, and then some years after that I embraced Islam, alhamdulillah.
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And I want to share with you in this video three
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examples of the kind of challenges I faced as a Christian who took his faith very seriously, who took the Bible really seriously.
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And looking into some of the issues in the Gospels, looking into them more academically,
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I discovered some seriously challenging issues which I knew nothing about until that point.
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And I want to share with you three examples of these issues, which are still really important, I think, for us all to understand today.
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If we care about the truth, about the Gospels, about the historical Jesus, who he really was.
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Because as Muslims and Christians, we all claim to follow Jesus.
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And it's important we understand who he really was and what we can believe about him historically.
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And I'm going to be reading some passages from this amazing book, Christology in the Making,
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a New Testament inquiry into the origins of the doctrine of the incarnation by a man called Jimmy Dunn,
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a professor of New Testament studies at Durham University, one of the world's leading New Testament scholars.
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He himself is a committed Christian.
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He believes in the Trinity.
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But like many of these very scholarly Christians I've discovered, they're also very honest.
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They're usually men of integrity who have burrowed deep into history and are fiercely looking at the evidence, the evidence of the gospels,
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of texts, of other sources.
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And they've discovered things which are very, very challenging if you're a conservative Christian like I was.
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I was a born-again, conservative, Bible-believing Christian, pretty fundamentalist actually.
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I believe the Bible was the word of God, all of it, without any errors.
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I believe Jesus was God, that he died for our sins and that he was God incarnate, I believed in the Trinity and so on.
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But in reading this stuff, which I chose to do because I was very curious to know what Christian scholars were saying,
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in reading it, I discovered some fundamental challenges to Christian faith, which even these Christian scholars fearlessly,
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fearlessly presented to their readers.
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And that's the amazing thing about this kind of work.
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Now, this book, Christology in the Making, as it's usually called, is very academic.
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It's probably postgraduate.
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It's not written in very easygoing prose, but doesn't matter.
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It's an academic text.
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But I want to share with you three issues that Jimmy Dunn highlights, which even though he is a Christian,
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really do pose a fundamental challenge to fundamental Christian doctrines.
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And it's based on very good evidence, compelling arguments, and indisputable textual facts, and he outlines them.
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And I share this not to attack Christianity so much as just to, inshallah, to build a bridge from the academia,
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from the ivory tower, to the more wider public so
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that we can all appreciate and learn from the expertise of these scholars, because it makes a difference.
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As Muslims, we claim Jesus was just a prophet, a man was not God at all, that he didn't become a human being, having been God.
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We don't believe in the incarnation and so on.
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What does an historical analysis tell us about that claim?
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Because there are answers, even from Christians, Christian scholars, that is.
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So I'm going to read a few passages from this text.
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It is difficult going, but I'll try and make it clear.
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I'll try and introduce some comments or commentary on what he's saying, just to elucidate some of the more knotty expressions he has.
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And I just want to mention that I'm reading from page 29.
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And up to page 29, he's been looking at the earlier Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and looking at what they say about Jesus.
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And he's been trying to answer the question, was Jesus conscious of being the divine son of God?
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This is the question.
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Was Jesus conscious of being the divine son of God.
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So he's looked at the synoptic gospels, as they're called, Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
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And to be honest, he's not really found any clear answer to that.
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So now he's going to go to the fourth gospel.
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This is the last to be written, the so-called gospel of John, written towards the end of the first century, possibly the early second century.
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And to see if that gospel can give us any clearer answers to the question, was Jesus conscious of being the divine son of God?
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And it's in the answer to that question
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that we find three very troubling facts presented to us with great scholarly depth that I want to share with you.
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And we can do with them as we will, these facts, but we need to know the truth if we care about the truth.
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So, by the way, he calls the fourth gospel, alternatively, he calls it the fourth gospel, the John's gospel.
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He sometimes talks about the fourth evangelist, meaning the author of the fourth gospel.
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But he means basically that the last one to be written, the Gospel of John, as we normally call it.
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So is this then the point, he says, at which the fourth evangelist comes to our aid?
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Can the testimony of the fourth gospel to be called in to give that clearer answer?
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Did Jesus think he was the divine son of God?
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Certainly, John's answer seems clear enough.
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a regular feature of jesus's discourses in in the fourth gospel
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the discourses by the way are these long often rambling talks
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that jesus uh gives in the fourth gospel they go on for chapter after chapter you don't get them anywhere else
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precisely he says in this in these long discourses do we find Jesus talking of God as his father
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and of himself as God's son he calls God father more than 100 times and himself son 23 times
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For the first time, we find one of the key words of the later creeds, the later creeds used of Jesus,
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monogenes, menogenes, menogenes in the Greek, translated usually as only begotten.
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Not only in the prologue, it's there in the opening verses of John,
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but also in one of Jesus' discourses linked with the father son theme.
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This whole father son theme is very, very dominant in the fourth gospel is not really dominant in the earliest gospel, say, of Mark.
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But linked with the father son theme is the regularly expressed conviction of his own pre-existence.
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So Jesus existed prior to his coming into being born of Mary, of course, existed with the father in heaven.
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and here's a bunch of quotes here from the gospel
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which i won't repeat of his descent from heaven another bunch
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of quotes of his coming into the world coming from god and
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so on the climax is probably reached in the most powerful
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of the i am sayings these are the amazing i am
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sayings i am the light of the world before abraham was
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i am the resurrection on the light i am the good shepherd etc only found in the fourth gospel
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and the one he refers to the most powerful is where
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jesus's claims to pre-existence where jesus says before abraham was i
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am this is 858 john 8 58 clearly jesus was with god
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or even was god so a clear enough picture emerges he says but can we assume
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that John's intention was to give these various expressions as utterances of the historical Jesus?
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Can we assume that John's concern was to paint a portrait of Jesus as he actually was,
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to record like a faithful stenographer or someone with a YouTube channel what he actually said?
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The reassertion of the fourth gospel as a historical source and the renewed realization that its tradition has firm historical roots,
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at least at several places, gives some encouragement on this score.
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Because you'll often hear Christian apologists say, well, in recent years,
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the Gospel of John has been seen by scholars as much more historically reliable than it used to be hitherto for,
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say, in the early 20th century or the 19th century.
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And in some places, this is true.
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So we'd say archaeology or cultural references in the gospel of john
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but and this is the
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but unfortunately jimmy dunn continues however it is precisely at the point
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which concerns us meaning did jesus think he was divine son of god
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that the case is weakest precisely here that the indications are strongest
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that john is presenting us with a developed rather than original tradition
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so in other words the words given to jesus on his
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lips in the fourth gospel are not really historical they are
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they are the product of a much later developed tradition then jimmy jimmy dunn says consider the following points
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and he mentions three points which is the whole point of the video uh
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which we will now explore and they're a little Some of them are a bit technical, but let's go through them.
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And he mentions, first of all, Dodd, a guy called Dodd.
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He was a British New Testament scholar in the 20th century.
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Dodd's careful comparison of the Gospel of John
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and the Synoptic Gospel has indeed brought to our attention several sayings and sequences of sayings,
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which most probably stem from synoptic or synoptic like tradition.
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So in other words, there were some themes or words in, say, Mark or Matthew and Luke, which we will see examples in a second,
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which were then developed, taken over by John and hugely reworked and expanded and elaborated and embellished.
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I think basically that's what he's trying to say.
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but dot has also highlighted still more clearly how distinctive are the johannine discourses john's discourses
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which make use of those sayings constructed to a characteristic pattern
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which has no parallel in the synoptic gospels no what no one can dispute that the vast differences
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between the discourse style in John's gospel and Jesus teaching in Matthew, Mark and Luke.
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So there still is a huge difference between John on the one hand and Matthew, Mark and Luke on the other.
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The point is this, and Dunn really goes to the detail now.
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The point is this, and this is where it's so compelling, I think, that I don't see how anyone can disagree with what he's saying,
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because it's so obviously factually correct what Jimmy Dunn is saying.
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And everyone agrees, virtually everyone agrees in the world, in academia, with what he's saying.
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The point is this, that the style is so consistent in John.
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So the way Jesus speaks, the language he uses, the themes that he articulates in John is so consistent.
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It never changes from page to page to page, whether in Galilee or in Judea or whether Jesus speaking to crowds or to individuals,
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to peasants or to Pharisees, to disciples or to hostile Jews.
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And so consistently different from Matthew,
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Mark and Luke that it can hardly be other than a Johannine literary product.
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In other words, this style has to be an invented product of the last gospel john developing and shaping the tradition
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according to a pattern largely imposed upon it so john takes themes
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which were around much earlier and then works develops embellishes them massively to create these huge discourses we see in john
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And they impose, John imposes this theme on the earlier material.
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The best explanation still remains,
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as Jimmy Dunn, that John's discourses are meditations or sermons on individual sayings or episodes from Jesus's life,
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but elaborated in the language and theology of subsequent Christian reflection.
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so in other words they're highly embellished sayings he seems to
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be saying jesus didn't go around saying i'm a light of the world
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and so no no no earlier tradition has jesus speaking like this
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but he takes themes the little little pinpricks little suggestions hints in the earlier gospels
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and massively develops them like like like a sermon like a like a preacher would
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embellishing them exaggerating them advancing them massively and this is the stand
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and understanding as i keep on saying and then he says
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and he gives a very specific example and
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when i i i've never come across anyone uh on youtube
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or anywhere else to be honest outside of academic literature who's ever made this point it doesn't seem to
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that there's no popular awareness of what he's about to say
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and this is really really significant
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and for muslims this is really really interesting what he's about
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to say in particular he writes this is clearly true of the whole father son tradition in john's gospel
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if you read john it's always about the son and the father
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and the father and the son the relationship between the two of them on
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and on every almost every paragraph is to do with that.
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You won't find that earlier on or hardly at all.
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Jeremiah has noticed, Jeremiah was a famous German biblical scholar, has noticed the following statistics for the use of father,
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just the word father in Greek, for God in the words of Jesus.
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So how many times did Jesus call God father in the Greek, the New Testament?
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In Mark, the earliest, it's just three times.
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in q this is the source used by matthew
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and luke in addition to mark we find four instances of god calling
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so jesus calling god father in john it's 100 times 100 times on matthew by the way is 31 times
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and then John 100 times so Mark three times Matthew 31 John 100
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and Luke is four
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and he draws the inevitable conclusion there was a growing tendency
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to introduce the title father for God into the sayings of Jesus let me repeat
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that there was a tendency a growing tendency to introduce the title father for God into the sayings of Jesus
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so in the earliest evidence we have Jesus hardly ever refers to God as father just one
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or two couple of times
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but by the time we get to John's gospel on the
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lips of Jesus we have him referring to God 100 times
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so there's a huge massive embellishment additional placing of this term on the lips of Jesus as we go through time.
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Very interesting.
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Even more striking, he says, are the statistics for the phrase the father.
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So before it was just father.
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Now the father.
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How many times did Jesus refer to God as the father?
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In Mark, it's a huge once.
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Any once does he ever refer to God as the father?
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In Luke, twice.
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Matthew 1 John 73 73 on this evidence it is scarcely possible to dispute
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that here we see straightforward evidence of a burgeoning tradition of a manner of speaking about Jesus
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and his relationship with God which became very popular in the last decades of the first century
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okay so what are we what are we to include from this
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and this is just the first part we'll come on to the second third in a minute
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so where jesus is portrayed in a trinitarian way you know the father
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and the son this is much later language
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if we go back to the earliest evidence jesus hardly ever
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speaks of god as his father at all just one
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or two instances and even those instances were put down say in the 60s
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or 70s AD and they may have been added in the tradition for all we know before that time
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so in Islam of course there's a slight change of subject
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uh we're told not to we don't address God as father it's not one of the names
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that has been given to us by which we address God
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and sometimes people wonder why that is the case and I think
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because the the the meaning of the word father if by
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which we mean someone who protects provides for uh someone who
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is uh someone you look to for security our sustainer and
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and our so on this language is found in the quran
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but the word itself father is not
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so it's not like the understanding of god is not there in
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that way but the word isn't and i think it's
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because the way the christianity has taken over this language in
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a trinitarian way the currency of the term has become a bit corrupted
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and so it's not usable anymore it has trinitarian overturned
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so the word is no longer used that's speculation
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but that's kind of what i think
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but coming uh to the next second big challenge uh
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that i i had to my faith
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when i first came across this as a christian much the same has to be said about the sayings
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jimmy dunn writes which assert jesus's pre-existence so the idea
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that jesus was a divine being who became incarnate uh as
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jesus of nazareth 2 000 years ago the point again is the complete lack of real parallel in the earlier tradition.
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No other gospel, nor Mark, nor Matthew or Luke, speaks of Jesus coming down from heaven and the like.
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The clearer the implication of pre-existence in any saying, the more distinctive its Johannine character.
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So in other words, pre-existence really is a fourth gospel idea.
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the word became flesh
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and dwelt among us to quote from the prologue it's not there in mark
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or matthew or luke
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and then he says again it is possible to see a
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synoptic type root for the weighty i am sayings remember i
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said about the i am sayings in the fourth gospel i
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am the light of the world i am the resurrection of
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the life before abraham was i am they're only found in john
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he said he jimmy dunn is referring to a synoptic type root the origin of these i am statements
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these amazingly weighty statements in the synoptics
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and he says again it is possible to see a synoptic
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type root for the weighty i am sayings mark 650
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and then mark 13 6 and mark 60 1462
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but again the indications are clear and strong that the weightier sayings in john
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are a development from the earlier tradition at best tendential to the earlier tradition
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for mark's i am sayings are simply affirmative utterances it's me
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i am he yes as matthew clearly indicates in Matthew 24 5
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and 26 64
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but John has probably seen a potential link with the I am of Isaiah 43 10
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and exploited it accordingly it is it is surely scarcely credible
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that is saying like John 8 58
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or the other I am sayings the bread of life the
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light of the world etc were part of the earliest jesus tradition
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and yet nothing approaching them appears anywhere in the synoptic gospels why should they be
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so completely neglected if part of the authentic sayings of jesus
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and why should only jesus only john preserve them why
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if jesus went around talking like this i am the light of the world, etc. Why does no one ever record him saying this in Matthew,
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in Luke, in Mark and Q, Gospel of Thomas, whatever other early sources you care, but only towards the end of the first century,
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Jesus apparently goes around speaking like this.
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The most obvious explanation, Jimmy Dunn says, once again, is that in a relatively insignificant element of the earlier tradition,
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John has found the inspiration to fashion an invaluable formula for
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expressing Christianity's claims about Christ now Jimmy Dunn writes as a Christian
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so he believes
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that the John statements about Jesus are true even though they're
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not historical there's a bit of a paradox don't ask me to explain it
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but he thinks that John has taken these uh very kind of insignificant statements where Jesus says, yeah, it's me.
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Yes, I'm he.
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And fashioned out of them a very, very high Christology, giving us basically Christianity.
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So you have to ask, what did the historical Jesus think?
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Did he agree with these things?
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He probably never thought of them like that.
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So I think that's very interesting indeed.
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I think we'll leave it there.
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I just wanted to
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emphasize that these discoveries when I came across them the idea
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that Jesus pre-existence is not taught in the early gospels at all it's not there in Matthew Mark
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and Luke and Q is only found in John the idea
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that Jesus calling God father in the way that we understand
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that he consistently did in Christianity is actually not there in the earliest gospels
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or hardly there at all there's only uh in a burgeoning
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development in other words a massively developed tradition where these terms the father
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or father put on the lips of jesus repeatedly to give this almost trinitarian relationship between father
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and son and then the idea uh that jesus himself
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uh didn't really go around talking like john's jesus does at all and i i've yet to found find
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hardly any scholar anywhere certainly outside of fundamentalist bible seminaries in
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the american south where you will find some who believe in the absolute inerrancy of the bible
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and these are very hard-line conservative people
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but a mainstream scholarship uh they all all accept
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that john's jesus is to use much more popular language is a fictitious construct it's not historical
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and that the historical Jesus did not believe that he was the divine son of God.
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The historical Jesus did not believe that he was incarnate in any way.
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And the historical Jesus did not go around saying, I am the light of the world and before Abraham was,
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I am, etc. And the historical Jesus did not repeatedly call on God as his father either.
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And repeat that, the historical Jesus did not go around repeatedly calling God his father either
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because there is no evidence that he did.
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And that's the evidence.
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The so-called evidence is found in much, much later texts, which everyone acknowledges are not historical.
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In other words, the historical Jesus didn't speak like that.
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So these are quite devastating findings, I found.
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And people are still Christians and believe this.
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You know, I don't know how they do it.
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But Jimmy Dunn still retained his faith,
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having written this book, even though he knew that the historical Jesus did not believe that he was.
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There was no evidence.
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The historical Jesus believed that he was the divine son of God.
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But he believed that anyway.
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But that's an issue for Jimmy Dunn.
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And it's not an issue for us so much.
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You simply care about the texts, the evidence and history.
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Until next time.
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Bu videodaki önemli kelimeler
Videodan daha az kullanılan 15 kelime, telaffuzu ve anlamıyla:
- gospel /ˈɡɑspəl/ (isim) — İncil. The first section of the Christian New Testament scripture, comprising the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, concerned with the birth, ministry, passion…
- scholar /ˈskɑlɚ/ (isim) — bilgin, âlim. A student; one who studies at school or college, typically having a scholarship.
- discourse /ˈdɪs.kɔːɹs/ (isim) — mubahase, söz. Expression in words, either speech or writing.
- divine /dɪˈvaɪn/ (sıfat) — ilahi. Of or pertaining to a god.
- refer /ɹɪˈfɜː/ (fiil) — zikretmek. To direct the attention of (someone toward something).
- lip /lɪp/ (isim) — dudak. Either of the two fleshy protrusions around the opening of the mouth.
- introduce /ˌɪntɹəˈdus/ (fiil) — tanıştırmak. To cause (someone) to be acquainted (with someone else).
- fundamental /ˌfʌn.dəˈmɛn.təl/ (sıfat) — esas, temel. Related to a foundation, base, or basis; serving as a foundation.
- conscious /ˈkɑn.ʃəs/ (sıfat) — ayık, uyanık. Alert, awake; with one's mental faculties active.
- tendency /ˈtɛn.dən.si/ (isim) — eğilim, tandans. A likelihood of behaving in a particular way or going in a particular direction; a tending toward.
- explanation /ˌɛkspləˈneɪʃən/ (isim) — açıklama. The act or process of explaining.
- sin /ˈsɪn/ (isim) — günah, vebal. A violation of divine will or religious law.
- dispute /dɪˈspjuːt/ (isim) — tartışma, kavga. An argument or disagreement; a failure to agree.
- parallel /ˈpæ.ɹəˌlɛl/ (sıfat) — paralel. Equally distant from one another at all points.
- passage /ˈpæsɪd͡ʒ/ (isim) — geçiş. A paragraph or section of text or music with particular meaning.
Duyacağınız deyimsel fiiller
- look at (fiil) — bakmak. To observe or watch.
- come across (fiil) — karşıdan karşıya geçmek. To change sides; to cross over to work for the opposition.
- give in (fiil) — çökmek, yıkılmak. To collapse or fall.
- put on /ˌpʊt ˈɒn/ (fiil) — giymek. To don (clothing, equipment, or the like).
Dikkat edilecek telaffuzlar
Konuşmacı they're, don't, I'm gibi kısaltılmış biçimleri 42 kez kullanıyor. Bunları duyduğunuz gibi kısa söyleyin.
- “th” sesleri: faithful /ˈfeɪθ.fl̩/, authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/, theology /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/
- “sh” ve “zh” sesleri: conscious /ˈkɑn.ʃəs/, explanation /ˌɛkspləˈneɪʃən/, indication /ɪndɪˈkeɪʃən/, resurrection /ɹɛzəˈɹɛkʃən/, inspiration /ˌɪn.spɪˈɹeɪ.ʃən/
- Uzun kelimeler — vurguyu doğru yere koyun: fundamental /ˌfʌn.dəˈmɛn.təl/, repeatedly /ɹɪˈpiːtɪdli/, explanation /ˌɛkspləˈneɪʃən/, consistently /kənˈsɪstəntli/, historically /hɪˈstɔɹɪkli/
Bu videoyla nasıl çalışılır
- Videonun tamamını konuşmadan bir kez dinleyin ve bilmediğiniz kelimeleri not edin.
- 0,75× hızla başlayın, cümle cümle tekrar edin ve kolaylaşınca normal hıza dönün.
- Kendinizi kaydedin ve orijinaliyle karşılaştırın; gospel, scholar, discourse gibi kelimelere özellikle dikkat edin.
Bu videodaki dil bilgisi
Konuşmacının en çok kullandığı yapılar, videodaki sözcüklerin aynısıyla:
| Yapı | Videoda |
|---|---|
| Present perfect continuous have/has been + -ing — önceden başlayıp hâlâ süren bir eylem | he's been looking · he's been trying |
| Present perfect have/has + fiilin üçüncü hâli — geçmişte olan ama şimdi de önemli olan bir eylem | I've spoken · I've discovered · have burrowed |
| Edilgen yapı be + fiilin üçüncü hâli — kimin yaptığı değil, ne olduğu önemli | be written · be called · being born |
| İlgi cümlecikleri who / which + cümle — bir kişi ya da şey hakkında ek bilgi | issues, which are · things which are · points which is |
Gölgeleme Tekniği Nedir?
Gölgeleme, başlangıçta profesyonel tercüman eğitimi için geliştirilen ve çok dilli Dr. Alexander Arguelles tarafından popüler hale getirilen, bilim destekli bir dil öğrenme tekniğidir. Yöntem basit ama güçlüdür: ana dili İngilizce olan bir sesi dinler ve hemen yüksek sesle tekrar edersiniz — konuşmacıyı 1-2 saniye gecikmeyle takip eden bir gölge gibi. Pasif dinleme veya dilbilgisi alıştırmalarının aksine, gölgeleme beyninizi ve ağız kaslarınızı gerçek konuşma kalıplarını eşzamanlı olarak işlemeye ve yeniden üretmeye zorlar. Araştırmalar, telaffuz doğruluğu, tonlama, ritim, bağlı konuşma, dinleme anlama ve konuşma akıcılığını önemli ölçüde geliştirdiğini göstermektedir — bu da onu IELTS Konuşma hazırlığı ve gerçek dünya İngilizce iletişimi için en etkili yöntemlerden biri yapar.