シャドーイング練習: Steve Kaufman | Meeting and Chatting in Osaka - YouTubeで英語スピーキングを学ぶ
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Hi, it's Zaeja and this is Steve Kaufman of LINK.
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Hi, it's Zaeja and this is Steve Kaufman of LINK.
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We're finally meeting.
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We're here in Osaka, Japan.
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And we've known each other for about 13 years.
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Yeah, I actually, just before I started Effortless English,
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I worked as a tutor on your site for a short time.
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Okay, right you are.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I remember that.
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And Steve was just in Japan speaking at a polyglot conference, correct?
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Correct, correct.
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Which means many languages.
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Right.
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People who speak Pali is Greek for many and Glot is Tata.
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Right. So, yeah.
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And right now, I'm really quite fascinated by the fact that you're learning three languages at the same time right now.
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Correct.
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Because I get this question all the time and I used to say,
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oh, just focus on English.
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So did I.
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I used to say that.
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Okay.
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And so you've changed your opinion.
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If you could talk about that a little bit.
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So my experience in learning both French and Mandarin Chinese,
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which were the two first languages that I went at heavily,
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was that I went at them very single-mindedly.
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I spent a lot of time very intensely, very intensively.
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And I always thought that you really have to have that degree of focus in a language.
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All right
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But and maybe because I've learned a few languages and because I'm more curious now I want to I you know,
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I started Arabic and then because I've now learned the Arabic script.
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Well, why not?
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Farsi or Persian we have a lot of Iranians in Vancouver.
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Yeah, and then my wife was watching a Turkish soap opera on Netflix So that's geez I could learn this line.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah So I'm becoming a little more of an explorer of languages And what I am finding is,
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and also the last few languages that I've learned,
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I haven't really taken them to that,
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you know, call it the C1 level.
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You know, I learned Greek so that I could go to Greece and converse in Greece.
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I learned Romanian so that I could go to Romania.
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But if you come at me in Greek or Romanian now,
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I would have a lot of trouble saying anything,
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although I understand them quite well.
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But what I have found now time and time again
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if I am working on one language and then I leave that language Yeah,
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and I go do another language When I come back to the first language that first language is clearer Yeah,
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I've had it many times
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and I mentioned it to a Japanese lady who has a school
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and she's had the same experience and increasingly I'm beginning to understand that
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Because the brain and this was in a book that mantra spitzer who is a German Cognitive,
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you know science brain brain science The brain requires repetition and novelty.
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Hmm.
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We also know and there's a professor at UCLA Robert York I don't know if you're familiar with him.
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But this idea that we can't block learning things.
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So that if you're sort of reading a word list
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or you're reading your history assignment and you're reading it over and over and over again,
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you're learning less and less.
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You're retaining less and less.
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We've got to move around.
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You've got to give the brain a bit of a break.
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You got to give the brain some novelty.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so that's perhaps a factor.
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And the other thing is if I struggle with a new and difficult language,
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then it's as if we increase the weight that we're lifting.
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Then we go back to the lighter weights and they seem very light.
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Yeah.
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So you go back to things that you were doing.
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But I had the experience with I was listening to these Chinese Chinese storyteller telling the romance of the three kingdoms.
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Right.
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storyteller great stuff by the way
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when you get into Chinese trouble understanding it a bit I knew many of the words
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but I wasn't wasn't clicking in
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and then I had to do a lot of business in Sweden
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so I spent like six months on Swedish listening to Swedish audiobooks like all Swedish
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and then I went to Sweden and then I came home
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and I put on the Chinese CD and I understood it better Wow
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so there is an element there I'm not sure yeah how and there's a bit Obviously,
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if I spend that much time on,
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if I'm doing whatever time I spend on Persian,
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I'm not spending on Arabic.
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Right.
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So you're losing that.
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On the other hand, maybe you are developing the flexibility of the brain,
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the language learning fitness of the brain,
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your ability to notice things.
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So there's, you know, there's a compensation.
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Some kind of general ability or something.
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Ability, cross training type of thing.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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have a conclusion yet, but I'm enjoying it.
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I'm enjoying doing the three rather than having to,
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you know, my original plan was to go three months,
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three months, three months.
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But that means it's three months before I come back.
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So I am enjoying it.
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I can't give you any scientific results yet.
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I learned languages for enjoyment.
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I'm enjoying doing it.
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I'm not really slipping in any of the languages.
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I think it's something worth trying
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and I've now heard a number of people like Luca Lampuriella do you know yes first class yes polyglot he
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said that he was trying to learn three languages at the same time
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so the person who's struggling to learn the first language may
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not necessarily want to do it right on the other hand
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you see people like here in japan who've been learning english forever yeah
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and feel that they aren't making any progress right so they may want to try
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just to go and do some spanish
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or chinese then come back to their english
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and see how right how they react oh
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and i was just you know i was telling you that
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that uh i influenced by you watching your videos on youtube
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that i decided to uh i just actually just i just i just i watched one of your videos
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and i said i'm gonna test this right now right i had four and a half years no Spanish.
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So I went in, I listened to your audio,
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your book in Spanish, which I used to listen to four and a half years ago.
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And I was, I mean,
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very happily surprised and shocked how much I could still understand.
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Four and a half years,
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I mean, nothing, zero Spanish.
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And just to go in and I'm just listening,
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I'm getting the gist by far,
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but I'd say I probably still understood 90%.
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Yeah.
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And it was, it was instantly motivating because I thought,
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he's right, we don't lose it.
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No, we don't lose it.
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It's all we get somewhere and we get that Very quickly.
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Do you find like I think that probably if I did like assess my own Spanish with that gap
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Probably the speaking is where I would say I slipped the most where it's maybe the most rust. Of course.
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Yeah, of course And and speaking if you don't speak you slip.
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Yeah, even if you're listening,
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you still have to speak well You have to speak.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay, but
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If you were put in a situation where you have the need
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or the opportunity to speak it'll come back very quickly I'm quite convinced.
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If you don't have the opportunity to speak,
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your speaking is going to slip.
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It may take a day or two.
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And I never worry about it.
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I'm not a circus performer.
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Come at me in Greek right now, I'll be lost.
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It's fine.
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Right, right.
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Interesting.
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Now, another thing I'd like to talk about,
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because it's something I've been using myself.
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So I'm mostly focused on Japanese now.
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And my main content is the link mini stories in Japanese.
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And I know you also a big fan of mini stories.
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Can you talk about why?
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Why are they powerful?
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They are powerful.
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I owe credit to you because you were before we ever did them.
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You were doing these point of view stories,
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mini stories, point of view stories,
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whatever you call them call them yep Oscar yes what's he called some simple Spanish
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or unlimited Spanish unlimited Spanish he doesn't yes Piotr polish dot oh that's right yes excellent excellent
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so I saw these people I said we should do that
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so I had some stories written up
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which we then translated into 30 odd languages per link
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and I've used them now for five languages what we did
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in our stories I I deliberately asked them to be written using the most common verbs.
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Yeah.
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Because verbs, if you want to say anything, you need verbs.
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Right.
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You can point to stuff.
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And the nouns could be anything.
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We don't know.
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But want, go, come, give, take, need, hope, wish.
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All these common verbs are so key.
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And there is so much repetition in each story.
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And the tense may change or the person may change.
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And then we have questions.
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So we have the story in two points of you.
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Yes.
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And then we have questions.
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And again, I have always been against comprehension questions.
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Yeah, because it forces me to remember to think of the story.
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So I'm no longer dealing with language.
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Now I'm dealing with that.
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I don't remember why did Mrs. Jones say that?
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I can't remember.
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I don't want to know.
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I'm not interested.
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Leave me alone.
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Right.
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I understood it wrong.
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So what if I understood it wrong?
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Right, right, right.
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So the story is the question we say,
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John went to the store did John go to the store yes John went to the store right
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or John went to the store did John go to the
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school no John didn't go to the school he went to the door very simple yeah
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so it's just essentially more exposure exactly
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so what you're getting in each mini story is the same phrase plus some question questions on
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that phrase right which can be did he or how much
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or how many or when you're getting questions you're getting the same vocabulary you're getting some because type of things.
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Right.
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Why?
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Because therefore, you're getting the basic structures with so much repetition.
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I find that it's not tremendous.
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Like there could be 3000 words in there.
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I don't know the way we count them at length.
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Maybe there's 3000 words.
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Yeah, it's not a huge vocabulary,
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but you're getting a lot of it's like going to the gym.
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Yeah, you're training yourself and you can start as a total beginner as you've done in Japanese.
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Yes, I've done in Persian Arabic Turkish Greek you start in the beginning it's noise yeah and very quickly
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you're yes yeah yeah so I think I'm a great fan of the many stories
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and I owe you uh well you know I
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and I owe I get gratitude Lane Ray I don't know
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if you know yes and he's he I understand began that
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so yes but I should add that there's something about language learning you know we all learn contribute,
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copy, do, whatever.
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And the gist of it is,
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is to, you know, it's input.
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Yes.
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What kind of input, there's different forms of input.
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It's not about being tested.
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Right.
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It's not about forcing you to speak.
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It's about input.
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Yes, indeed.
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We're all happy to copy each other.
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Yes, exactly.
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Well, we'll do a longer interview when you get back to Vancouver
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and we'll go even more And now we're going to go to dinner.
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I was going to dinner.
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Okay, good.
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Thank you.
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