ฝึกพูดภาษาอังกฤษด้วยเทคนิค Shadowing จากวิดีโอ: Steve Kaufman | Meeting and Chatting in Osaka

Hi, it's Zaeja and this is Steve Kaufman of LINK.

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Hi, it's Zaeja and this is Steve Kaufman of LINK.

We're finally meeting.

We're here in Osaka, Japan.

And we've known each other for about 13 years.

Yeah, I actually, just before I started Effortless English,

I worked as a tutor on your site for a short time.

Okay, right you are.

Yeah, yeah.

I remember that.

And Steve was just in Japan speaking at a polyglot conference, correct?

Correct, correct.

Which means many languages.

Right.

People who speak Pali is Greek for many and Glot is Tata.

Right. So, yeah.

And right now, I'm really quite fascinated by the fact that you're learning three languages at the same time right now.

Correct.

Because I get this question all the time and I used to say,

oh, just focus on English.

So did I.

I used to say that.

Okay.

And so you've changed your opinion.

If you could talk about that a little bit.

So my experience in learning both French and Mandarin Chinese,

which were the two first languages that I went at heavily,

was that I went at them very single-mindedly.

I spent a lot of time very intensely, very intensively.

And I always thought that you really have to have that degree of focus in a language.

All right

But and maybe because I've learned a few languages and because I'm more curious now I want to I you know,

I started Arabic and then because I've now learned the Arabic script.

Well, why not?

Farsi or Persian we have a lot of Iranians in Vancouver.

Yeah, and then my wife was watching a Turkish soap opera on Netflix So that's geez I could learn this line.

Yeah, yeah, yeah So I'm becoming a little more of an explorer of languages And what I am finding is,

and also the last few languages that I've learned,

I haven't really taken them to that,

you know, call it the C1 level.

You know, I learned Greek so that I could go to Greece and converse in Greece.

I learned Romanian so that I could go to Romania.

But if you come at me in Greek or Romanian now,

I would have a lot of trouble saying anything,

although I understand them quite well.

But what I have found now time and time again

if I am working on one language and then I leave that language Yeah,

and I go do another language When I come back to the first language that first language is clearer Yeah,

I've had it many times

and I mentioned it to a Japanese lady who has a school

and she's had the same experience and increasingly I'm beginning to understand that

Because the brain and this was in a book that mantra spitzer who is a German Cognitive,

you know science brain brain science The brain requires repetition and novelty.

Hmm.

We also know and there's a professor at UCLA Robert York I don't know if you're familiar with him.

But this idea that we can't block learning things.

So that if you're sort of reading a word list

or you're reading your history assignment and you're reading it over and over and over again,

you're learning less and less.

You're retaining less and less.

We've got to move around.

You've got to give the brain a bit of a break.

You got to give the brain some novelty.

Mm-hmm.

And so that's perhaps a factor.

And the other thing is if I struggle with a new and difficult language,

then it's as if we increase the weight that we're lifting.

Then we go back to the lighter weights and they seem very light.

Yeah.

So you go back to things that you were doing.

But I had the experience with I was listening to these Chinese Chinese storyteller telling the romance of the three kingdoms.

Right.

storyteller great stuff by the way

when you get into Chinese trouble understanding it a bit I knew many of the words

but I wasn't wasn't clicking in

and then I had to do a lot of business in Sweden

so I spent like six months on Swedish listening to Swedish audiobooks like all Swedish

and then I went to Sweden and then I came home

and I put on the Chinese CD and I understood it better Wow

so there is an element there I'm not sure yeah how and there's a bit Obviously,

if I spend that much time on,

if I'm doing whatever time I spend on Persian,

I'm not spending on Arabic.

Right.

So you're losing that.

On the other hand, maybe you are developing the flexibility of the brain,

the language learning fitness of the brain,

your ability to notice things.

So there's, you know, there's a compensation.

Some kind of general ability or something.

Ability, cross training type of thing.

Yeah.

Right.

have a conclusion yet, but I'm enjoying it.

I'm enjoying doing the three rather than having to,

you know, my original plan was to go three months,

three months, three months.

But that means it's three months before I come back.

So I am enjoying it.

I can't give you any scientific results yet.

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I learned languages for enjoyment.

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I'm enjoying doing it.

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I'm not really slipping in any of the languages.

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I think it's something worth trying

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and I've now heard a number of people like Luca Lampuriella do you know yes first class yes polyglot he

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said that he was trying to learn three languages at the same time

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so the person who's struggling to learn the first language may

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not necessarily want to do it right on the other hand

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you see people like here in japan who've been learning english forever yeah

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and feel that they aren't making any progress right so they may want to try

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just to go and do some spanish

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or chinese then come back to their english

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and see how right how they react oh

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and i was just you know i was telling you that

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that uh i influenced by you watching your videos on youtube

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that i decided to uh i just actually just i just i just i watched one of your videos

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and i said i'm gonna test this right now right i had four and a half years no Spanish.

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So I went in, I listened to your audio,

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your book in Spanish, which I used to listen to four and a half years ago.

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And I was, I mean,

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very happily surprised and shocked how much I could still understand.

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Four and a half years,

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I mean, nothing, zero Spanish.

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And just to go in and I'm just listening,

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I'm getting the gist by far,

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but I'd say I probably still understood 90%.

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Yeah.

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And it was, it was instantly motivating because I thought,

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he's right, we don't lose it.

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No, we don't lose it.

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It's all we get somewhere and we get that Very quickly.

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Do you find like I think that probably if I did like assess my own Spanish with that gap

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Probably the speaking is where I would say I slipped the most where it's maybe the most rust. Of course.

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Yeah, of course And and speaking if you don't speak you slip.

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Yeah, even if you're listening,

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you still have to speak well You have to speak.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay, but

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If you were put in a situation where you have the need

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or the opportunity to speak it'll come back very quickly I'm quite convinced.

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If you don't have the opportunity to speak,

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your speaking is going to slip.

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It may take a day or two.

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And I never worry about it.

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I'm not a circus performer.

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Come at me in Greek right now, I'll be lost.

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It's fine.

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Right, right.

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Interesting.

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Now, another thing I'd like to talk about,

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because it's something I've been using myself.

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So I'm mostly focused on Japanese now.

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And my main content is the link mini stories in Japanese.

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And I know you also a big fan of mini stories.

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Can you talk about why?

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Why are they powerful?

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They are powerful.

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I owe credit to you because you were before we ever did them.

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You were doing these point of view stories,

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mini stories, point of view stories,

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whatever you call them call them yep Oscar yes what's he called some simple Spanish

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or unlimited Spanish unlimited Spanish he doesn't yes Piotr polish dot oh that's right yes excellent excellent

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so I saw these people I said we should do that

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so I had some stories written up

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which we then translated into 30 odd languages per link

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and I've used them now for five languages what we did

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in our stories I I deliberately asked them to be written using the most common verbs.

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Yeah.

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Because verbs, if you want to say anything, you need verbs.

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Right.

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You can point to stuff.

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And the nouns could be anything.

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We don't know.

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But want, go, come, give, take, need, hope, wish.

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All these common verbs are so key.

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And there is so much repetition in each story.

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And the tense may change or the person may change.

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And then we have questions.

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So we have the story in two points of you.

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Yes.

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And then we have questions.

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And again, I have always been against comprehension questions.

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Yeah, because it forces me to remember to think of the story.

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So I'm no longer dealing with language.

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Now I'm dealing with that.

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I don't remember why did Mrs. Jones say that?

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I can't remember.

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I don't want to know.

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I'm not interested.

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Leave me alone.

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Right.

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I understood it wrong.

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So what if I understood it wrong?

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Right, right, right.

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So the story is the question we say,

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John went to the store did John go to the store yes John went to the store right

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or John went to the store did John go to the

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school no John didn't go to the school he went to the door very simple yeah

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so it's just essentially more exposure exactly

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so what you're getting in each mini story is the same phrase plus some question questions on

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that phrase right which can be did he or how much

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or how many or when you're getting questions you're getting the same vocabulary you're getting some because type of things.

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Right.

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Why?

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Because therefore, you're getting the basic structures with so much repetition.

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I find that it's not tremendous.

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Like there could be 3000 words in there.

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I don't know the way we count them at length.

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Maybe there's 3000 words.

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Yeah, it's not a huge vocabulary,

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but you're getting a lot of it's like going to the gym.

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Yeah, you're training yourself and you can start as a total beginner as you've done in Japanese.

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Yes, I've done in Persian Arabic Turkish Greek you start in the beginning it's noise yeah and very quickly

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you're yes yeah yeah so I think I'm a great fan of the many stories

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and I owe you uh well you know I

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and I owe I get gratitude Lane Ray I don't know

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if you know yes and he's he I understand began that

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so yes but I should add that there's something about language learning you know we all learn contribute,

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copy, do, whatever.

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And the gist of it is,

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is to, you know, it's input.

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Yes.

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What kind of input, there's different forms of input.

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It's not about being tested.

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Right.

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It's not about forcing you to speak.

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It's about input.

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Yes, indeed.

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We're all happy to copy each other.

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Yes, exactly.

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Well, we'll do a longer interview when you get back to Vancouver

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and we'll go even more And now we're going to go to dinner.

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I was going to dinner.

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Okay, good.

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Thank you.

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