Shadowing Practice: The Sheryl Crow Interview - Learn English Speaking with Video

Cheryl how are you Rick I'm a huge fan too thank you I want to talk about growing up

and music yeah how you got into it and

and then maybe compare it to today with your kids well

it's funny I never really got into it I was always in it like my mom

and dad were musicians although my dad was an attorney I think in his hope

and dreams he would have been a musician they both were

highly talented in fact I would say my mom in a

different time would have been a mezzo -soprano in the New York metropolitan I mean she was

that great but they they always played like in little swing bands

and they bring all their friends home and they would play Stan Kenton

and Buddy Rich and and all the mancini

and baccarat all the stuff on the on the magnifox they would drink

and smoke and play and hang out and that's what i grew up with

and i don't think i was maybe a third grader before i realized

that not everybody's parents were doing that right yeah

but my mom was a piano teacher she had all of us in piano i got my degree in piano

but i was uh i think i was around a second

or third grader when I realized I could play by ear

which was great but also annoying for my mom

and for my teachers because I could hear it

and then play it but getting my degree you know to hear Rachmaninoff

and then fake it

because you're playing by ear I had some very interesting renditions of Rachmaninoff particularly

because I couldn't do like a 14 you know 14 note spread

but um yeah i mean i think for me uh totally different time

and you and i are the same age

but i i grew up in a very small town

and i also think you know as i get older

and philosophical i think in hindsight i think i came in

with a lot of melancholy why i don't know i don't know what

that mental makeup is um but music for me was really my way out

but it was also my way in i mean i think i think i was maybe eight

or nine when i started playing stevie wonder and started playing elton john

and started playing carol king that tapestry record and mudside slim

and the blue horizon those those songs i felt like it i thought it was uncanny

that they knew me when they wrote those songs you know and my journey just always went the way of learning

like i still feel like i'm a student i still consider myself a student

because i love the learning part of it you know i

have had like lots of strange unbelievable experiences through my journey of like growing up listening to people

and then getting the opportunity to sit in the room

and observe them or even have them mentor or let me ask them questions from i mean steve gad

being a backup singer and asking david foster can i just stay here

because i know steve gad's to come and just do hi -hat overdubs

and steve gad's like wire you know yeah um and

and greg filling gains i mean being able to sit with

him on the jackson tour run my my little four track

and him show me the philosophies of stevie wonder

or you know just being raised with music all around me my mom loved oscar peterson

but she also loved i mean she loved aretha and

And the thing that strikes me about that is the way Aretha played as if she wasn't,

as if she was singing separate of how she played.

For me, I'm still just, I'm, I still feel like I have so much more to learn.

I love it.

I love practicing.

I love listening.

I think that's what's really informed my journey.

And I think not to sound woo woo, but do you think there's a certain amount of like

that manifesting idea where if you put your energy

and your interest towards something these avenues open or these opportunities arise because there's

so many things i go how in the world for a

girl from a tiny town how did i get to be

on the you know b3 bench with steve winwood asking him

how he works draw bars you know um i just i

feel like i've really had a blessed existence i noticed recently

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Thank you.

Do you think that the diversity of radio when we were growing up,

that you'd find all these really different styles of music next to each other on the pop charts and things like that?

Yeah, I do, but I also think there was a huge backdrop of mystery around a lot of these people.

I mean, obviously today, everything's curated.

Your image, everything that you want us to know about you is forefront,

and then your music is really just the byproduct of styling.

I mean, that sounds hypocritical, and I don't mean for it to sound that way.

I did see your podcast about how most kids now are kids who've come up with money

but you know when I think about that

and I've been asked for you know 35 years what do

you recommend to young songwriters I'm like get in a cover band I mean you will never understand

how brilliant songwriting and arranging can be then if you are absorbing it via osmosis I mean I mean,

I am not a great bass player, but I knew in the top 40 band I was in who James Jamerson was and who Chuck Rainey was.

And I wanted to be them, you know,

and then cut to my first trip to New York with a friend of mine who was a producer in St. Louis.

He's working with Michelle Camillo and Anthony Jackson was there.

And so events like that where you go, I couldn't have written it.

I wasn't playing bass yet but I was

so just like how do you how do you do

that how do you write a hook um that is important

or in my estimation as important as the chord choices

and the melody intervals and I mean it just it's all part of it you know

and I fear that today everything is so

arranged and created around the three seconds around reintroducing the hook around melody not being i mean

when you talk about chords

and you talk about like let's talk about todd run grin

let's talk about carol let's talk about let's talk about elton john let's talk about

so much of that music especially stevie the chords were all in that mid -range that were just oh yeah

always moving and changing and working

and then what you had to say over it was just part of where you went with it you know

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and i don't know if there is that anymore

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and i don't know that we're even teaching it but if even if we were teaching it

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it's the relationship that you have to the music you're listening to

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that i think becomes the great informant we grew up with albums they were you know something you held

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and you studied you envisioned yourself in it you know

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and you read who played on the things who produced my

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god I mean you know who Lee Sklar was I mean you know you knew you knew all the players

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and for some weird reason you thought someday you were going to be doing

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that I mean I still feel like I have

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so much to learn but i've gotten the opportunity to be around people

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that are just that have really written written the book on it i i i wish

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that um music was more like it used to be

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but nothing's like it used to be

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so you've mentioned people you mentioned steve gadd and anthony jackson

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and greg phillingaines you mentioned chuck rainey you mentioned all these session players uh you said oscar peterson you you

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so you you talk let me just tell you i'm a total music nerd i was a music nerd

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when i was a kid okay um i thought it was

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really cool knowing who everybody was okay cut to the humbling moments of going out to la

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and being a waitress um so

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which is really what my i mean i did teach school

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i got my degree i taught school moved to la

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and i immediately got a waitressing job

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which is what all the great musicians do of course

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if they can't play very well so

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but i happened to work at a jazz place called um le cafe

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which was small and you know that was i worked there

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because i wanted to be in it you know i could have worked at freaking

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fridays but i wanted to be around it you know

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and a lot of those people came through there you know

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one of the first things i did with the same producer from st louis was get to go to

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koreas and i'm a nobody at this point and met john patitucci

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and then i'm waiting table and and there's john patitucci

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and i'm just like you know i was a nerd i was a total freaking nerd

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So and I still am a nerd, you know,

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love it how do you think that informs you as a songwriter to have a really diverse background like that and

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the music that you

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and i grew up with was a lot more sophisticated chord wise like we're talking about stevie wonder

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and todd rundgren and you know the beatles the you know this really harmonically sophisticated

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and music has gotten simpler popular music has gotten simpler as a songwriter

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when you have a unique chord progression how does

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that inform your melody writing i

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because i can play by ear i got to where i

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was bored with my songwriting on the piano i mean i felt like i was

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rewriting how long or can we still be friends

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or even someone saved my lifetime i felt like i was writing

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that over and over and over that's when i started writing on bass

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and writing on bass for me i could hear the the

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root of of whatever chord it was going to be

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but be more thinking melodically and that was a help for me

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because i felt like if i just keep writing my version of elton john's

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and i still i have a lot of those on my

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record i mean my dad's favorite song ever wrote was called always on my side

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and sting sang on it and it's it's literally like sorry seems to be the hardest

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or you know it it has all of those the third in the bass

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and the and i still love those songs

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but there was something about wanting to go out

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and you know rock and be i don't know i think

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that maybe that's where the curating my own persona came in

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where i loved rock music i mean i i i liked the combination of like steve nicks um

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but with chords you know and eventually

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when i hooked up with jeff trot he could bring in his way riffs

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that i could put my bass on and set up a mic and

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let it fly you know um he he's not necessarily

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and i don't think he'd mind me saying this

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but he's not like a jazzer he's not like a chord necessarily an intricate chord guy

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but i felt I feel like with my playing bass

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and having the tape rolling which Alberto can attest to I would capture stuff

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and then be able to piece it together I mean we've we we've had full songs

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that like my favorite mistake that were written that way where it literally was Just fill in certain

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Syllables and things like yes, yeah, but you'd have the melody

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and then eventually you would you would yeah figure out what the lyrics are yeah

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and and actually with that one and that doesn't happen very often

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but but having a full lyric I think I think sometimes

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when you're in this craft mode like I got a craft great songs

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and you're sick of it that sometimes you pick up an instrument

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and you're like roll tape and that's

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when the really good stuff comes like you put aside the ego

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and the brain and the intelligence and the knowledge

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and then you have you know dude just go you know and then

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no it just comes together you know would you have the hook line though my favorite mistake like on

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that song in a perfect world you would

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but you're my favorite mistake I don't even know I will

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tell you I was out of a I was just out

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of a really bad really not bad really a great relationship

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that could never work and I think sometimes you know there were several songs on

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that record the Globe Sessions that were very inspired by okay I need peace

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and quiet I moved to New York I put all my gear including a giant Neve console into

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a loft and closed the door and then just kind of barfed it you know

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so and it was great i had two safe people there i had a drummer

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and i had jeff and river wide which is like straight appalachian led zeppelin

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and just all these like heart rendering things and that does not

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that doesn't happen all the time you know let me just play a little bit of it

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I woke up and called this morning I don't know your voice was a warning That you don't care for me anymore

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I made up the bed we sleep in I looked at the clock when you're creeping

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It's 6 a .m and I'm all alone

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Did you know when you go it's the perfect ending To the bad day I was just picking me When you go,

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all I know is you're my favorite mistake Now, when I listen to that,

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I hear just so natural,

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the entire production How long has this thing going on?

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That's like perfect tempo, but the entire arrangement is just, it just sounds so good.

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All the organ fills in there, like everything.

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The guitar thing with just the the that has the riff in it

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that there's the perfect amount of space for it and then

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The blend of the harmonies in the chorus and and how it just rolls

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How long does it take to make a song like that?

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Production wise for example.

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Well that song We did in an afternoon.

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Okay, it's funny.

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So I actually had to go back.

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This has been a few years ago

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i i kind of didn't remember actually playing the keyboard part um

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and i called trina and i was like i need to see pictures

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because i don't remember doing it everything was basically one pass of everything

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and it was just it felt so uh so effortless um

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and then i wound up calling my publisher i was like

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i feel like i'm gonna get sued i feel like this has been written before

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um and i called amy man

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and i was like i'm gonna send you a song did you write a song like this or

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i just felt for sure that i had we'd ripped somebody off but we hadn't i i don't know i cannot

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i can't define like what inspiration is um but i do find that sometimes you just

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you go okay thank you i don't know where it came from

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but thank you that was a really easy song to do um everything

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that i've produced for the most part i've approached it like from the best demo I've ever done

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and that's been it don't do demos we just go in

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and record it and and that's what that's what

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that whole album was

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that one was easy there are other songs on the record

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they were like okay should it have strings should it have you know

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but this one was just a straight -up pop song you know you had bass electric guitar drums percussion Wurlitzer

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and hammer B3

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and was it i think it was sting he said something

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like um you need to have a a flagship a couple flagship songs i was trying to find

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that term right that would be like your single yeah singles yeah how much goes into

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that as far as when you're gonna release a record and

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and and talk about

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that whole part of the uh of making a record well first i would say

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when you talk about sting one of the things that he said

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and i don't even know where i don't know if i saw him say it or if i

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read it but he said what what sets artists apart are the intervals

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that they choose and I've always thought about that ever since he said

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that like the intervals that you choose melodically that is really interesting

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and now since then I'm always listening to people going okay yeah Adam Derwitz does this

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or you know you know or even just you know it's

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so true the thing with the singles it's such an art killer

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and it's such a mind

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when i say the f word it's such a mind bender um

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when my second record came out and

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that was really my opportunity to say okay i actually am an artist whatever y 'all read about me

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or heard about me i actually do

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i play a lot of instruments i know how to write

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songs um give me a second give me a chance and

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that record had quite a lot of successful songs

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and then the third record it's like okay how do you compete with the success of those songs

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and it's always like annoying at you the good thing about making the third record for me was

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that because I was out of a relationship and closed the door

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and wrote a song I wrote a record for me I wasn't thinking in

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that context and we did have a big we had my favorite mistake off

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that record but you know you can't really ever know

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because you know your record label gets absorbed by Seagram's

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and the next thing it's like well we don't hear any singles

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and it's just like it's the the music industry is not conducive to

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um you know really inspiring art from artists it really is like how can you make us money

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my fourth record is the testament to holy forking shirt balls i don't know what i'm doing

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and spending a million eight before i ever finished anything um

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trying to figure out how to compete with the first three records turning 40

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and Britney Spears increase it Christina Aguilera that's the age group now competing again yeah

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so yeah the single thing is it's the kiss of death

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that being said my first record I would have thought was

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gonna be like never see the light of day I didn't hear a single single on

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that that record single single I hear a single single record

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so there you go who can know who can know what's gonna hit

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and historically the anr people

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that would say this this stuff you know i don't hear a single

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or um nowadays that's not even people just put stuff out

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and it becomes successful or not now but i don't know

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if that's better or worse because i i am starting to think

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that maybe the old record business for all its flaws was

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actually a better way to put music out although people consume

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music in such a different way nowadays yeah i i mean

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like i said my kids say i was born in the

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1870s um i i liked the 1870s a lot um i would say

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that the thing that's problematic for me is there are lots of different ways to hear music

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but we are already like in squirrel mode as it is like squirrel squirrel

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and so if it isn't a tick tock a three second tick tock

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or if it isn't it's not going to be big

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if it isn't a big moment then you're not going to get streams

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and um case in point i've produced my um nephew's band

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and they're they were great okay um made a great you

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know five songs worked with jeff really got it top notch

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and took it to the label i was on

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and they were like well what's their following you know what kind of presence do they have

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and so if you're not already you know

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if you don't already have followers they're not not really

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that interested it's like miramax would buy your small film

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and blow it up and then take credit for it

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so that's kind of what we're at now you know i'm

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trying to think is there anything that's similar from the way

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the music business used to be i don't think maybe it's like well how many people can you draw live

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that may be the only do they have a following You know, that was maybe the only parallel, but that is so weird to me.

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It's so weird.

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And I guess at this moment where everybody's talking about AI and that kind of thing, we just did some shows with Avett Brothers and Wilco,

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of course, Willie, Tedeschi Trucks.

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We've done quite a lot with Brandy.

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And none of these people have the big hits none of

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them have a like a history of having radio hits

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but they sell out and people are there for it

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and they want to experience musicianship they want to spear they want to experience spontaneity and so

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that gives me some hope you know I do miss the

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old days where everybody was singing I mean I'm very lucky

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because we have a set of you know 12 or 15 hits

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and people sing it and it's like a lot of different age groups

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so I feel very lucky that I came up when I did

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but I mean it's a good argument

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that you know live music will probably be what saves our industry

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and certainly what gets our musicians paid the problem with it is though

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if you have some young musicians who are really talented it's just it's expensive to go out

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and play unless you have

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that following now you have all these huge songs 12 to 15 big hit songs

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that i don't think that people can even get to

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that point young artists nowadays i don't think it's possible is

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it well taylor did it um although you know to be

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fair taylor's been making records for a long time yes

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and she started when she was like 14 or 15

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or whatever and

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so she's got 20 years on her um um I think you know Olivia Rodrigo is one

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that I look at

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and go okay she's got a lot of hits for you know with the younger crowd and

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and she's legit you know she's a good songwriter um it's

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a good performer good player there was a moment a few years ago

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when the Grammys when all the female bashing thing came out um

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that I was worried that we wouldn't have females that even more interested in learning to play,

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that it would all just be dance routines and lip -syncing.

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but i'm watching now um you know people like molly tuttle

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and larkin poe

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and um you know great great players great players who are also writing great songs um

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that probably won't see the light of day at radio

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but people want it and that's that gives me help

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when i ask you about radio when you started out for a few records.

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Did you do all the same stuff that everybody did where you'd go in and sing at radio stations for program directors?

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You did all that stuff, right?

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Oh, my God, yes.

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We played in meeting rooms.

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I mean, we played everywhere.

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And we were in a U -Haul.

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And we'd visit stations in Chicago while they're eating donuts and I'd stand there and play songs,

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and then we'd play that night.

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We'd load in our gear and load out our gear.

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It would be in the morning, too, really early, right?

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Oh, yeah, like 7 in the morning.

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Yeah.

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And that literally took place for a better part of a year

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and a half before the first record got nominated for a Grammy or Grammys.

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And then when it won the Grammys, we had to do the whole thing over again for another year, you know.

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But I do think back on that, and I think, okay, first of all, you couldn't i couldn't do it now at my age i

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was young i grabbed sleep where i could i could sleep sitting up in a van you know

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and drink you know wake up with a hangover and noon i'm good i'm good

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but i look back then i think i'm really grateful i had

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that you know because for one thing i got to cut my teeth before youtube

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so i wasn't i mean i learned a lot i wasn't great in the early days nobody's

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that great you know i mean very few people are

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that great so i i feel lucky

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and i i remember the day we got a tour bus

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and literally it was like the greatest day of my life you know i cried

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and it had a great big champagne glass tilted on it was pink

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and people would stop and say who's in the bus

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and we'd be like dolly parton let's talk about youtube and about um about

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being able to play songs for an upcoming record like the songs for the second record

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uh i would assume that like most people

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when you're out touring you would try out some of those songs

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which is really not something that you can do nowadays is

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that a real hindrance you think well it's kind of a bummer

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because i i i always think that the hits are one thing um

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and i'm grateful you know there was a time where i thought

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if i have to play all i want to do one

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more time i'm gonna like freaking throw myself out the window

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but as you get older you get more philosophical

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and you go okay that

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that one song took me all over the world you know

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took me to Russia took me all over South America

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and people who don't speak English we're trying to sing the 3 ,000 words in

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that song but those aren't the ones

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that really reveal your true self ever you know it's always the deep cuts

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and I think you know when I was growing up and

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when you were growing up we knew all we knew whole

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albums you know we knew we knew the big songs

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but we also knew the whole album you know

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so it's different now it's hard to say it really depends

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on the environment like now we we've we've gone out

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and played the hits and we'll sneak in a couple of

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or a few new songs it really works best

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if you're in a theater where you can actually talk

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and connect and

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but yeah I don't you know unless you've got the giant production where people can just be entertained with

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that playing new songs is hard in fact um we we did a bill with um

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lionel richie and billy joel this is probably five years ago and lionel was so amped up and he's like

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we need to take this on the road we have hits for weeks

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and billy's like nah i'm good i do two gigs a month

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and that's good that's got me you know madison square garden in a corporate i'm good

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and Lana was like come on are we gonna do it

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and I was like yes sir like I'm so in you know

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and he he said the funniest thing he said we have hits he's like do you know

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when you play a new song and I said no

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and he goes never it's like that's

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when they go to the bathroom I was like well maybe

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they go buy a t -shirt I don't know you still have to do it though

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because there is somebody in the audience

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that wants to feel something you know before your first record you were a background singer what was

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that like i mean it was unbelievable i like i said i had i graduated college i got my degree um

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in piano performance and with a with a minor in education i was engaged moved to st louis

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immediately got in a cover band, which is what I had always done, and started teaching school.

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And then my relationship fell apart, and I was there.

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But I liked what I was doing, and I was always writing, and I was always playing.

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And at a certain point, this guy, the producers I was talking about, Jay Oliver, fantastic producer, great artist in his own right, asked me to come sing a couple of commercials

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and one of them was McDonald's and so

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because it paid me more than two years of teaching I thought you know what I'm I'm gonna stop teaching

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and I'm gonna try and make this thing work okay

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and this is this is um it just to really tie

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in what a nerd I was I had been the singer on Dave Weckl's demonstration tape Wow

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so when I went to LA I had this demo you know with my commercials

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and a couple of songs I had written

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and then the stuff I'd done with Dave Wekel you know drummer to Chick Corea um

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and I started getting work which was you know I didn't I didn't know any better

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but I mean I literally took it to every single studio in LA Thomas Guide

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and super new super like I don't know what I'm doing but this is what I'm going to do.

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And I got work.

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And then that led to, um, getting to sing background on some studio sessions and then,

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um, being invited to audition for Michael.

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And it was not like anything I'd ever experienced.

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I mean, I didn't own a passport.

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I'd never been out of the country.

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Um, I was working with, I mean, the, the irony of my life all the way through it is that there's tie -ins to every single moment.

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And one of them was that my first record I ever owned was um ABC

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and then my first big big big gig was with um Michael

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and it was a huge learning experience I mean um you know midway through

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that tour I started losing my confidence and it was it was really stressful

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but um but I mean just a giant learning curve

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um and

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and i i loved it you know i also have made lifelong friends out of it um after

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that when i was a background singer on henley's tour and i also learned a ton

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two totally different environments you know one

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that was more i'd say kind of corporate you know whereas

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we didn't really hang out with michael um yes he rented out tokyo disneyland for all of us

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but hanging out with him not

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that much i mean i did get invited to go watch amos and andy and shane

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with he and his security guards and bubbles so I did do that okay

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but yeah I mean I think every single thing I've gotten

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to do I've always approached it from this student you know I've always been like a student just watching

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and going okay I wouldn't do that but I know I could do

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that you know and also learning other people's songs

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and I swear by osmosis you know

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when you sing end of the innocence every night or when you sing i mean just the the crafting of songwriting

451

i mean she says i am or human nature i mean all of these songs were great for a reason

452

you know and you hope someday you might have one song in your life

453

that you write that means something to some kid who's got headphones on

454

and goes oh man you know now when you just saying

455

that you're were you doubling michael yes yeah all these things yeah that's insane it is

456

and you know what

457

when you're you life is a little bit like being a frog in a pot like you don't really know

458

because you don't know that that's not normal um

459

because you've never done it before you know um yeah i doubled them on a lot of stuff you know

460

and i got to sing with him on.

461

I just can't stop loving you.

462

Oh baby.

463

Would you guys practice these things together or would he come out on stage?

464

Only in rehearsal.

465

Really in rehearsals.

466

I mean I've told the story before.

467

It was very very many months along through that tour that he didn't even know our names when he introduced us.

468

But nonetheless you know I still felt blessed to be on

469

that tour and like I said have lifelong friends

470

that I still keep in contact

471

and Greg is one of them in fact I did a song recently called free

472

and bus and I sent it to him I was like okay dude you just Greg it you know

473

and he sent it back and I was just like it's just people

474

that are born with that I mean I liken him to like Prince

475

and I mean we we worked with Jeff Babco I don't know

476

if you know Jeff yeah of People that you just go, okay, you, there's not even a chance that you were not born with that.

477

you know um

478

when i was on the jackson tour we would we were always overlapping with george michael

479

and with lionel and with pink floyd and with prince

480

and prince would do these late night shows

481

and i got to go to some of them and i would watch him go from being being like

482

you know like he like being mccoy tyner to like going into oscar peterson to then picking up the base

483

and being i mean just you just go okay somebody like

484

that it's he couldn't have learned it it's you know

485

and i can learn all day long but i'm never going to be like that you know so

486

but it still it still keeps me like in love with the craft now

487

when you started meeting all your idols things like

488

that what are the things

489

that you learned as a songwriter from you know i Keith Richards

490

or whoever the people that that you met along the way I think

491

when you start learning their music for instance I was in a young band called Athena

492

and the hubcaps okay and we did a lot of punk

493

and we did we did some did some Rolling Stones in

494

that in my not favorite period you know start me up and

495

and then I started going back and getting into like Beggar's Banquet and Exile on Main Street.

496

And the songwriting in that, for a kid who grew up with rural radio, rural radio back then was like a lot of Willie,

497

a lot of Tammy, like true country storytellers, and then music out of Memphis, like WNPS.

498

We were getting all the corporate stuff like, I call it corporate, but like Journey, Kansas.

499

AOR.

500

AOR, yes.

501

Or tuning in like, i'm really aging myself tuning in the transistor to like um

502

chicago king biscuit flower hour on sunday nights you know

503

and all of that stuff i think you

504

when you start writing your own songs you find

505

that you go to those places you know of um i

506

mean i felt like i was writing factory girl over

507

and over when i started learning to play guitar

508

and i did not start learning to play guitar until i

509

was 29 years old wow yes i was always a keyboard player um

510

and it was really at that time that i started teaching myself

511

because i was like i don't want to stand out

512

my first tour i was on a b3 out in front of everybody

513

and i didn't want to have this chunk in front of me you know um

514

and i was like i'm gonna learn to play the guitar i'm gonna teach myself

515

and i taught myself everything i could i could get my holds on hands

516

and that was pre -youtube so what instrument is the easiest to play

517

and sing with is it hard to play and sing with the guitar

518

because it's kind of pressing against your diaphragm no i mean

519

i think really for me i don't think about what i'm

520

playing um i just don't think about i think my brain i think i truly am ADHD um

521

which has really served me um well my older son is the same way

522

and he he has a hyper focus where

523

when he's locked in yeah he's in it you know

524

which has been great you know for him he wants to be marine scientist

525

or maybe in I don't know what he's gonna wind up doing

526

but in the things in the areas

527

that he is really interested in he will learn everything

528

and it is in there and I think I'm I think I'm like

529

that where when I'm playing I'm not thinking I know it

530

and so it's doing its thing and then i'm just i'm trying to just look at faces and eyes and

531

um and try to like feel the humanity in it okay

532

so you have this gibson is this your country western here

533

that's my country in western yep this is 1962 1964 1964

534

um bought it at earl's in hollywood uh many years ago uh

535

so this is not this is not dollars for it this is not like murphy labs uh weathering here

536

or anything that's like that's the real deal aging on it

537

no it's the real deal aging um we call it the little money maker

538

because for a long time that was the only

539

that makes you happy like all the um all the big songs were on

540

that and then later on my guild m85 became the uh more of the money maker um

541

because i started writing more on bass but um

542

but yeah i mean it's just i do i think i am a woo -woo person

543

but i do feel the presence of history on a lot

544

of this old stuff you know case in point i have

545

all these old you have a lot of old instruments a

546

lot of old yes not just instruments amplifiers i mean everything i love it though but But honestly,

547

I think when I worked with Bill Vittrell, I went to college.

548

I learned why it mattered to have tube amps,

549

why it mattered to record on a Neve and mix on an API or, you know, what different boards did what.

550

And I also...

551

got to

552

mix with him on that first record there were always two or three of us

553

Rehearsing the mixing he didn't do automated and I just I learned so much about

554

The beauty and the sanctity of record making

555

And that is really how I feel about it Like I feel like I'm cheating

556

because I have a couple of api's now.

557

I sold my Big giant broadcast board to Wilco and I miss it But I kept my sidecar.

558

You had the DCM -10 there.

559

Yeah, and I still have my tape machine in the back and lots of old vintage stuff that I swear about.

560

And we do really try to record in passes and we try to take the best pass.

561

We don't cut tape anymore to put the best passes together.

562

We're easy to, you know, go in and work with the freaking X's and O's or whatever it is.

563

Sure, are you a gearhead, would you say?

564

I'm a gearhead.

565

I am a gearhead.

566

I'm also a collector of just historical.

567

I mean like I wouldn't have known that Ludwig put out drums that were

568

Painted I know a lot of them It's ever it truly is a sickness the first thing I saw

569

when I walked in here say she has a lot of bass drums there What's what's it?

570

Yeah, and I don't play drums.

571

I would say that is the one instrument.

572

I'm a hack at I mean I've played drums before on things, but Nothing too taxing.

573

Okay, so I've heard you sing You're an incredible singer live and everything, but when you're actually making a record and you're doing a vocal take,

574

will you comp a vocal yourself, or do you like to do full passes?

575

How do you do it?

576

How do you like to sing your vocals?

577

Well, nowadays, which is slightly tragic, I can't even believe I'm going to say it,

578

but I'll track on an M85 or whatever.

579

I mean, just not even like the greatest mic.

580

But I like the way it sounds

581

and usually I will punch into whatever I have sung

582

because I feel like a lot of times the best takes are the ones

583

that you're not thinking and you've just written it

584

so the phrasing is more natural and authentic

585

if you overthink it i mean i feel like sometimes i

586

i lose um you know i'll definitely comp background vocals

587

and do all that stuff

588

but i'm also i'm very impatient like i don't enjoy the comping thing you know i'm lucky i have alberto

589

and he's been in here with me for a

590

while he knows what i like but i'll do three

591

or four passes and i'll sit with him

592

and go i like this line or like

593

that line i don't love taking different words i'll punch in a word

594

if i can't find one that's good you know

595

but i like the performance aspect of it i like playing like i'll record on guitar

596

and sing and then i'll replace the guitar to the vocal to get a clean guitar

597

and then replace the vocal i mean that's generally how we do it unless i'm on bass

598

and then it just is what it is

599

and how much of a perfectionist are you i'm not

600

and honestly um you can ask my friend over there i

601

see like i used to see i don't read comments anymore

602

but used to like in interviews or reviews or whatever i always got sort of um

603

labeled as a perfectionist

604

and i'm like i'm i listen to my records i hear tons of imperfections

605

which is one of the reasons i don't really love listening to my records um

606

but definitely not a perfectionist you know i like it to be clean i like it to be right

607

but um sometimes right isn't best you know so

608

if i asked you cheryl what record do you feel of yours

609

that the production and the songwriting was perfectly put together this is gonna sound

610

so naff oh naff that's a good old 80s word um i have to be honest this group of songs

611

that we just put out for me is It's everything I love.

612

And maybe it's where I'm at.

613

It feels very California, 70s,

614

California country, Fleetwood Mackey, a little Harry Nielsen,

615

a lot of Eagles, a lot of wide background vocals stories that are so for me

616

so close to the bone for me as a human

617

and as a mom raising two kids

618

and what i find i'm not only thinking about

619

but talking about with everybody i know and

620

so i'm hoping these songs will resonate with whoever it is

621

that happens to find them or whatever

622

but i love the production it's not overthought it's very vibey

623

um i know what california country is as you're talking about these artists

624

but i never thought of it

625

that way that's interesting i mean i think of it like neil young you would i mean i guess

626

if he were coming out now it might be called americana rock

627

or whatever so all the labels i don't know but when i think about that generation of music

628

um i think i was 17 18 19.

629

um all of my most formative memories or experiences when i hear

630

that stuff i i can smell the inside of my grandmother's car you know i'm saying it's it's so

631

uh physical and molecular and um

632

and that's what that's what this stuff feels like country music for me now doesn't do

633

that it feels very curated um no knock against anybody

634

but i don't gravitate to it um it feels super corny

635

um feels like a lot of click words like gotta have

636

these 10 words in it um gotta either have a mando

637

or a you know it's like um and and actually there for a

638

while it felt like it felt like 90s Christian music to me

639

and that's no not to 90s Christian you know but

640

so it's not the country thing now to me is less country

641

and more formulaic

642

if I said to you Cheryl name me a perfect song

643

anyone's song I mean I would have to say yesterday you know that's I still I still

644

and I go into that place of wonder like why does this sound

645

so simple as if somebody just sat down and played it

646

and there it was

647

and then it will outlive all of us you know I look at it you know

648

and I know everybody's talking about Dolly right now

649

and you think about your parents tell you you need to

650

leave the camp run nicer than how you found it you know pick up after yourself

651

and i think about dolly as is everybody and i look at dolly

652

and go god the footprint she left was wide -reaching

653

and beautiful and inclusive and when you think about what the possibilities are for how you leave the planet

654

just a song like i will always love you the fact that it will be recorded over and over and over so will crazy.

655

I mean, there's so many classic songs that will outlive.

656

If I had one song that outlived me, I would feel like I left the campground nicer.

657

And that's what, to me, that's what art is.

658

That is the whole thing.

659

Music, I felt like rescued me and gave me a purpose.

660

and i feel blessed by that to be able to leave something

661

that feels nice would be great you know sure would you

662

play a song yeah what do you want to hear tell me whatever you want to play

663

woke up and called this morning The tone of your voice was a warning That you don't care for me anymore

664

I'm made up to bed,

665

we sleep in I looked at the clock when you're creeping It's 6 a .m and I'm alone Did you know

666

when you go it's the perfect ending To the bad day I've gotten used to spending

667

When you go all I know you're my favorite mistake Well,

668

your friends are sorry for me They watch you pretend to adore me But I'm no fool to this game

669

And here comes your secret lover She'll be unlike any other Until your guilt goes up in flames

670

Did you know when you go, it's the perfect ending To the bad day,

671

I've gotten used to spending When you go,

672

all I know is you're my favorite mistake You're my favorite mistake Thank you for listening.

673

Maybe nothing lasts forever, even when you stay together I don't need forever after

674

It's your laughter, don't let me go So I'm holding on this way

675

Did you know, could you tell, you were the only one That I ever loved,

676

everything so wrong

677

Did you see me walking by I didn't ever make you cry.

678

You're my favorite mistake.

679

You're my favorite mistake.

680

You're my favorite mistake.

681

Beautiful.

682

Thank you.

683

Oh man, look at my life 24 or so much more Live alone in a paradise that makes me think of two

684

Love lost,

685

such a cause Give me things that don't get lost Like a coin that won't get tossed Pulling home to you

686

Oh man, take a look at my life I'm a lot like you

687

I need someone to love me my whole day through Oh,

688

look in my eyes and you can tell it's true Cut right to the good part Oh man,

689

look at my life I'm a lot like you Oh man,

690

look at my life, I'm a lot like you That song I ever learned.

691

That is a hard first song to learn.

692

Check it out.

693

You get your F chord, you get your C chord, you get your A minor, you get your E minor, and you even get this little ditty.

694

Yes.

695

Yeah, it's a good one.

696

And actually, that and James Taylor, just all that picking, you know.

697

And even Cat Stevens.

698

A lot of D work, you know.

699

Yeah, it was the year after we made Two Zant Music Club record, and I hadn't gone on tour yet, and I moved back to St. Louis,

700

put a band together with guys I kind of knew, lived in an apartment above a bookstore, and all I did that whole summer was play guitar.

701

And how long was it before you could actually get through the song?

702

Well, I was really teaching myself how to play the stuff that we'd written.

703

Lie to me, I promise I believe Lie to me

704

But please don't leave There's just so many changes, though.

705

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like a...

706

You know how they say music's so good for your math brain?

707

Yes.

708

It's math to me.

709

I think that's the way I see it, unless I'm playing the piano.

710

for the most part I don't always even know what I'm doing like I don't know what key like

711

or what what chords I'm playing you know I've just figured it out by ear.

712

And I wish I, you know, I know everything on the piano, but like other, like guitar, no. Would you play us a song from the new record?

713

Oh.

714

We have your world interest set up for you, Cheryl.

715

Yeah, sure.

716

I guess today is judgment day Since everybody's got something to say

717

But if all you can come up with is hate Then turn around and march the other way

718

Let's take a lesson from the family tree We share this land but we don't all agree

719

You think I'm weird, I think you are crazy But I can love you cause we're all family

720

Whoever said freedom was free

721

There ain't no freedom with a history And those are done for you and me So don't be an asshole,

722

let everyone be What if everyone took a civics class?

723

I'm not sure I know anyone who'd pass Cause what we know comes from the past

724

If we forget it can slip through our grasp Whoever said freedom was free

725

There ain't no freedom without history And those who died for you and me

726

So don't be an asshole, let everyone be

727

So let's all pile on to the freedom bus It's not for some that rides for all of us

728

Bring Jesus, Buddha, or your old dog Gus Whatever brings you joy and happiness

729

Whoever said freedom was free There ain't no freedom without history

730

And those who died for you and me So don't be an asshole Let everyone be

731

Beautiful.

732

Cheryl, this has been amazing.

733

Oh, thank you.

734

Thanks for coming up and hanging out.

735

Oh, my God.

736

It's very embarrassing.

737

I'm a big fan.

738

I'm a big fan.

739

I'd like to once again.

740

Thanks Cheryl for being my guest today.

741

Remember hit subscribe leave a comment Thanks for watching

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