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Hi Poe, how are you?

Hi Anthony.

Thanks so much for coming in and talking to us today.

Oh you're okay.

As you probably know we're sort of talking to people who have taken a bit of an interesting journey

and trying to try to think about some of the things

that they've done along the way and some of the ways they've made decisions in terms of where they've got to today.

What would be really great is to probably hear from you

from the start just a little bit about your journey and your background, kind of what's brought you to the place you're at now,

even if you know where that place is.

But how that all arrived and kind of that journey and

when we talked it was sort of a meandering journey

but there was a there's a couple of common themes in there I think.

Yeah, yeah.

Great to learn about that.

Yeah, cool.

Well, I'll start off with my school career I suppose, primary school career, which started in Malaysia.

So I migrated when I was nine to Australia and And I was a bit of a dunce,

to be honest, and that's kind of the reason why my parents migrated to Australia, because there's very limited university entries available for non -Indigenous population.

And so they thought that my best chance of getting a really good, my brother and I getting a good education was to come to Australia.

And mum's brothers were all educated here as boarders, so it just made sense to come to Adelaide.

So yeah, I really struggled at school.

And then when I came to Australia, I just really blossomed.

Like, I loved Australia.

I felt like life just kind of made sense.

I don't know how.

It was just a very distinct shift in the way I felt about myself

and the world and how I felt I belonged in it.

And I kind of felt like I was coming home in a really weird way,

even though it was obviously I was migrating to a new land.

And it must have something to do with the fact that I've always been more a creative person and always knew that.

I didn't learn well in an academic system.

And in Australia, of course, there's a lot of emphasis on social aspects of development that are deemed really important as well,

and they are at school.

So you do lots of other things besides just exams and studying and academics.

And so I really loved that, and I had no trouble at school here.

I always knew that I would do something creative because it's something

that I always loved to do from a very young age.

I loved working with my hands

and it was something that I could concentrate for hours on even from a very young age.

And I think there's something to be said about this.

Steer towards things that you love to do and that you're good at.

It's a really basic principle but I'm surprised at how many people gravitate away from things like that,

thinking that they can't sustain it in the form of a career.

But it's not true, because I've done two things that are pretty obscure, cooking and art.

I'm going to make a career out of both of them.

And yes, lots of luck has come my way, but I am a great believer of that thing of if you always,

you know, coning in on your craft, it's that thing of, what's that phrase?

Preparation meets opportunity or whatever.

I do hugely believe in that

and it's happened too many times in my life to not know that that is a real thing that's happened to me.

So, yeah, just so I got through primary school.

Then in high school, yeah,

I went through actually primary school academically with EADS because I think the standards in Malaysia are so ridiculous for kids.

Like you start having exams when you're like seven.

And I remember I actually hate little A6 books

because we all used to get one even when you're like little tiny tot.

You used to have to write in all your reading for your exams and you do everything right from the beginning.

So you do geography, history, everything.

Imagine trying to remember dates when you're like, you know, really meant to be just finger painting.

Actually, I felt really gypped when I came to Australia.

I thought, oh my God, they're just like playing in sand and stuff.

We're like getting pumped with like textbooks.

Anyway, so then high school, yeah, I found that quite easy.

But then something really weird happened in year 11 and 12 there just was this drastic shift in the way that,

like, which side of my brain took over.

And I was quite really good at sciences and maths.

And then suddenly in year 11 and 12, it definitely, apart from art and stuff like that, which I was always interested in and good at,

I suddenly just became much better at writing and anything that was sort of a humanities kind of nature and did drama,

started to just do all these things.

And when maths and sciences kind of started to hit that advanced stage,

we were starting to do calculus and advanced algebra and all that kind of stuff.

I used to just, I was streamed in sort of middle high school in all my,

in top of all those classes and then suddenly I just plummeted from like, when it got to that more advanced stage of maths and science,

I literally just started failing my subjects.

It was really interesting and all I wanted to do was just read

and draw and that's all I've kind of wanted to do.

And so I excelled in those and then I just did really badly

and just sort of just scraped through with my matric with those.

I think was like in quite a low danger of failing those subjects actually but just managed to get through.

Then I took a couple of years off and just worked in a sandwich bar

and saved up and went overseas I was overseas for about nine months.

And some quite interesting shifts happened in my life personally because I came from quite a religious background.

And so this huge wide world opened up to me and came back,

quit religion pretty much, was a Mormon.

So that was what my religious background was.

And I went to university and did a Bachelor of Visual Communications, which is essentially a Bachelor of Design,

and I specialise in illustration.

I kind of always knew that I just wanted to paint pretty pictures,

but, you know, thought I'd better at least try to be sensible and do it in a commercial form.

So I did really well at uni because I was a mature age student.

I was really prepared for it and, you know, worked really hard, got good marks.

And, but when I came out, I kind of knew I never wanted to be stuck in a building and be working for people.

And I sort of dabbled in a little bit of freelance and found I was very bad at taking instruction.

Like, and I hated, I was very, like, dogmatic about my ideas.

So if, like, a client said, like, can you just give me six ideas?

I was like, no, I'm going to give you the one and it's really good.

And so I just had a lot of trouble working in the commercial realm.

And because I went to university as opposed to TAFE, they don't really train you very well to function as designers,

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to be able to quote and know all the post and pre -production stuff.

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I was pretty dysfunctional really.

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So I was doing lots of things like making huge mistakes like editing

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and having to cover costs and I printed things

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that had loads of spelling mistakes and I just didn't know how to operate in a business.

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And that really turned me off the idea of doing that.

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So then I worked in a sushi bar for a couple of years

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and tried to figure out what I wanted to do.

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And I dabbled in a bit of make -up.

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So that was like my next thing.

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I wanted to be like make -up to the stars and have these dreams to go to New York and do that.

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But then my partner at the time said,

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you know, I think you need to kind of go back to your art because I think with the make -up thing,

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You're kind of going to be like the shoelace tie on a football team for the rest of your life.

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No matter how much you excel at it, you're always like this anonymous thing behind the designers or behind, you know, like no one ever goes,

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have you heard of this amazing makeup artist?

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It's very rare anyway.

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So it's like, it just seems like a real shame that, you know, your creativity is kind of always lost and being directed by someone else.

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Like, don't you want to be, you know, the head honcho?

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So it got me thinking a little bit.

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And so he basically encouraged me to have a look at a few galleries.

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And I just kind of rocked up with three paintings tucked under my arm

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and visited the two that I wanted to exhibit at.

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And one asked me if maybe I should start taking some art classes.

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And I was like, I just came out of art school.

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So I was like, maybe we're not quite the right fit.

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And then the second one was Hillsmith Gallery, who I've been with since.

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So it's been over like 10 years that I've been with them.

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And then, yeah, shall I keep going?

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Yeah, that's great.

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I'm nearly finished.

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So then, so did that and then kind of realised

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that it was really hard for me to make a living out of only one gallery

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because a turnover within a stable of artists within one gallery is about 18 months.

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So let's say you have a sellout, which would be extremely lucky,

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and at the beginning you're really not selling for much because you're a nobody so you've got no history.

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So you have to sell your work for quite sort of, you know, not much.

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And if you do really well, that has to last you for 18 months.

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It's not realistic.

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So I realised I had to basically find more galleries so that I could work harder and...

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make myself full -time employed in painting.

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So I basically just saved up, beg, borrowed, stole and went to Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and found galleries there and it meant that I could have,

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I could paint two, three, four exhibitions a year and that's how I basically started to earn a living full -time painting.

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And then I was like, oh, this is kind of, this is good now.

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I think this is okay.

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It's getting momentum and I'm getting a bit of press and I'm making a living out of it.

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And then MasterChef happened.

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So that was a friend just sending me a text saying, hey, I think you have a good chance at this.

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And Sarah went to uni with me and we used to always fantasise about opening a little patisserie.

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So we used to talk about cooking and cook a lot together.

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And I was like, what is this?

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She goes, I don't know.

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I just saw an ad for her, but I think you should enter.

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And so, yeah, so that was that journey.

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I just entered.

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I think there was like 7 ,000 entrants Australia -wide.

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And then each state, I think, got pared down to 100.

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And then that got pared down to 50 live auditions in each state, maybe 100.

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Yep.

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And then the rest is history.

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That's the way it happened.

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I'm going to hark back on a few things.

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Yep.

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Because obviously, I mean, I think there's the story of how it all unfolded

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but there's probably a whole lot of stuff in there in terms of you know

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if you'd sat down at the start of that whole journey when you arrived in Australia and then said this is how

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Poe as a person is going to develop and actually built that up it probably wouldn't have looked anything like the process.

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No, there were so many moments where I really felt like I was just floating

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and I was just waiting for something to stick

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and those moments are quite scary

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because you're just like am Am I just going to be a hobo for the rest of my life?

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I don't know.

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Am I just going to be working at this sushi bar for the rest of my life?

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And I think you do have to let those moments kind of, yeah, see what sticks.

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Don't always just jump at money and that stability.

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And I know that goes against what everything your parents and, you know, a lot of your instinct tells you.

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But if you wait for those moments to happen, it can take you on a wilder, more excellent adventure.

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Yeah.

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So it's almost like, to me, watching it from afar or sort of listening to you talk about it,

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it's a lot about knowing who you are in that journey.

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Yes.

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So in the end, you know, you end up as the person you knew who you were all along,

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but you had to find out that along the way.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I always think it's really interesting when I see meet personalities

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that follow this very linear path when they go to uni or at high school,

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they pick all their subjects so that they can get into the course that they wanted and then they study,

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they do really well and then they go into that profession.

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Because I think sometimes if you're really tunnel vision with life, you miss out on so many other opportunities that might be your real calling.

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And there's that phrase that I think has been coined for a reason, blind ambition.

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And I think it's not encouraged enough to just use your emotional intelligence more when you make decisions on your career.

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Because if it is something that you love and it's something that you're good at, there's so much there already that you can work with.

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And for me, it's just always about never losing interest and daring to raise the bar for yourself all the time.

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And I think if it's something that you don't love doing, like you run out of steam really quickly or at some point.

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Like you need to know you're going to have that stamina for the rest of your life.

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And in that process, kind of mistakes can be opportunities, right?

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Yes.

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I love mistakes.

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I always embrace mistakes.

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Like whenever people go, oh, I just got fired.

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And I was like, brilliant, now you can do what you really wanted to do.

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I always try and get them to see the other side of the coin.

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And I've learnt so much from my mistakes.

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And it's always just about, yeah, picking yourself up and just troubleshooting and knowing, yeah, you do learn so much.

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You learn so much about yourself, I think, with mistakes.

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Do you think there's a moment in those mistakes

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when things go bad that you kind of let go of all your past thinking

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so you do something else and you'd only make that decision once you've made the mistake?

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Yeah.

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In other words, you wouldn't make it but for the mistake.

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Exactly.

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You've lost everything.

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It's like why wouldn't I just try that now?

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I think there's something about that, like just you've got nothing to lose.

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But I think people should just have that attitude more often without the absolute tragedy happening as well.

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So do you find it now, with all your commitments, how's the capacity to make mistakes now,

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in terms of what you do on a day -to -day basis?

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Is it the same as it was before or is it different?

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Yeah.

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Really?

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Yeah, no, it's the same.

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Yeah, I feel...it's really interesting.

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I feel very much the same person and none of that's changed.

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And I have exactly the same friends.

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Like, my closest four friends are still my closest four friends.

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and yeah, I think it very much is about knowing...

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I think the two things about success is knowing yourself really well and just working really bloody hard.

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I think they're the two secrets to success.

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I don't think there's actually much mystery to it.

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And just always...yeah, just always find...

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You're kind of following that path, right?

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Pardon?

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You're sort of waiting for that thing to happen or following the path, or if you've got those in the background, something kind of prepares itself.

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It was funny when I was looking at some quotes to sort of throw at you, to see what you think of them.

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Louis Pasteur said, by chance, you'll say, in other words, he invented pasteurised milk and stuff,

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but he said, but chance only favours the mind that's prepared.

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So in other words...

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Yeah, if you can see it.

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Yeah, not everyone can see those things, but you're sort of in the moment where you're thinking about,

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you know, who you are and all those sorts of things, and you start to see opportunities for what they match with what you're doing.

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So I thought it was a really interesting quote for you.

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The other one that I thought of which was interesting,

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because I think that you've probably changed from your daily basis being kind of one of art and creativity.

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It still is, obviously, and it's still flowing through, but sometimes your time's not your own now, right?

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Yeah, definitely.

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And I think I said to you on the phone, what's really interesting is I think the perception that people have of success,

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because I feel almost certainly that I'm less happy than I was

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when I was less known and I was just kind of plodding along with my art.

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But I can really say that because life was really simple and had this kind of purity to it.

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Like I just wake up.

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I really had no one to answer to except my gallery owners.

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So I had three galleries at the time.

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So it'd just be like me talking to my galleries maybe once, twice a year just to kind of keep them informed of what work

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that I was doing and then not stick to it anyway.

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But now it's very complicated and there's so many other things that have to be taken into consideration.

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Like my book is not really my book.

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The cover that I want is not the cover that the marketing department of HarperCollins want.

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They want the smiley poe.

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I'm like, I'm sick of the smiley poe.

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Why don't we have a serious poe on the front?

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It's more resting because everyone's doing those feel -good lifestyle shots.

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Why don't we have one where I'm like quite intense?

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I just made that up.

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But like little things like that, you know, like you're not, you're just not in control of your, what you, it's crazy.

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And I've got this friend who's lost this like multi -million dollar business

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and they've actually lost control of the IP of their name.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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So like she had to fight, she's fought, they fought back and gotten it back.

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But that's how out of control success can be.

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It's a perception thing.

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It just gets very complicated, very convoluted.

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And the purity of the idea just gets completely shattered

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amongst like a thousand people that have vested interest in you as a commodity.

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As a brand.

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Not as you as a creative, yeah.

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And it's interesting because when I made my first book, all these things that I dreamt of doing,

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like I dreamt of making a group my whole life.

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They were sort of like, my publisher was quite happy to kind of try and take those things away from me.

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Like they wanted to put in a stylus.

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But for that, for a commercial entity, it speeds things up and that's all it's about.

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It's all about speed and efficiency and getting the product out at the right time.

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And it's like, time?

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What's time?

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Just do it when I'm ready.

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It just doesn't work like that.

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There's release dates.

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There's shops.

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Yeah, I always joke to people about how my life was before MasterChef

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and I'd just roll out of bed at the crack of noon

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after painting until like five in the morning the night before and just like,

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I don't know, if I just became obsessed with potting plants that day, that's literally what I'd do the whole day and then,

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you know, play with my dog, take him to the park and then I'd go, oh, she'd probably start work.

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start work at five o 'clock you know like it's just so much freedom in my life

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and now it's just not like

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that at all it's just like literally I have things where like um when I was doing my book tour

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the first time.

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It was just quite shocking to me.

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Like I'd have, my publishers would have like two phones going

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and I'd be in the car and she'd just mash me on the phone and get to me and she'd be like,

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okay, that's 3AA, they want to talk to you about your book.

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Okay, blah, blah, blah, answer 100 questions.

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And then she goes, okay, wind up.

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Okay, thank you.

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And then she's like, this is such and such a radio.

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And then you'd have to talk, wind up.

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And then while I'm on the phone, she'd like push me out the door literally.

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She'd come around the other side, hold her, blink her arm through mine and then she'd like walk me through shopping centre.

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I wouldn't even know what state I was, half the time.

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Walk me through this maze in a shopping centre

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and I'd see the queue outside for the book signing and then I'd sit down, meet and greet like 200 people

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and you have to get really energised through the whole thing because people when they meet you, they get really shy.

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So you have to be like, you know, cutting character for like, you know,

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for the whole day and then at night time they'd have like dinner functions and you'd do the same thing again.

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So that for like, you know, a few weeks.

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So it's just like a really...

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And then the whole time as well, I'm getting emails going, I wanted that yesterday.

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Where's that recipe?

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We need it for the food festival.

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We need to buy ingredients.

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So, yeah, it's really, really stressful all the time.

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And I just really, really miss that, you know, that really crazy, very human lifestyle I used to have.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So it's really, really different.

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It's almost like something you wish for, you get there and you wonder...

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Yes, be careful what you wish for.

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I always say that to people.

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It's a different business or a different thing that you think about, right?

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Yeah.

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When you're there, it's different.

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It's the publicity, it's all these other things.

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Yeah.

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It's not necessarily the creative process, the cooking part of the thing.

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Yeah, the thing is such a small part of it.

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That's the thing that's quite freakish about the whole experience.

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And I don't say this without absolute gratitude, of course, because I feel like it's kicked so many doors open

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that in time I'll be able to sift all the things

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and I'm starting to do it now that I don't want

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and give them back to where they came from

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and keep what I do want out of it

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and then the doors

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that have been kicked open I can use as leverage for my my creative projects

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that I've had as lifelong dreams

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so you just sometimes have to suffer at little points in your life to get to where you want to go.

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It's almost like we try and teach our spin -off companies

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and people taking those chances to create these platforms and our processes. So again,

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get somewhere to then do something else and then you can then use

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that as an asset or use that as a thing to do something else

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that you really want to do or that you're really interested in.

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Tell me about your art.

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You're not necessarily precious about your art in terms of,

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you know, you're precious in terms of the creative content but you're not really precious about the art world necessarily.

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No. And I think something really interesting that you told me before is

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that I guess the promotion of your brand or your name hasn't necessarily resulted in increased sales of your art.

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In fact, there was a conundrum there that you had.

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Is it good or is it bad?

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Yeah, yeah.

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When I was thinking about entering MasterChef, that was the first thing that I felt was at risk

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because it had taken me about exactly five years funny how they always say like five -year plan

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because I didn't really have a plan

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but I worked really hard for five years and that's when the income started to kick in um but anyway um

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so um lost my train of thought about your art and how the how the name

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Poe in terms of the publicity that

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Poe didn't necessarily translate and the difficulty of that decision making yeah

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so I thought oh what if he was seeing me on tv

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and think that I'm some crazy just trying to be famous and use it as an average for my art, but I'm not at all.

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But what if it just gets construed all the wrong, exactly the wrong way?

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And I had a little think about it and I actually suddenly realised,

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actually, I know the people that buy my work and my work is not really rock style work.

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I'm not like, I don't really make highly conceptual work that sells for like, you know, hundreds and thousands of dollars.

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And I have a couple of corporate collectors, but it, I'm not really on that realm.

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I'm not definitely on that.

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I'm not in the secondary market and I don't know if I'll ever will be.

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Because my work can be quite corny.

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And I just can't run away from it.

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It's like, it's really weird.

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Because a few times in my life where I got a bit angry and I thought, oh man, I should make some conceptual work.

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And it just fell flat on its face.

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And it's just such a hark back to what we were talking about before.

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Always just really know yourself and know your market.

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Because when you're not, people can really sense it.

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And so, yeah, I sort of make quite sort of works that are quite earnest.

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Like I don't really make work that's highly conceptual.

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It's really for its aesthetic beauty.

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And it just tells kind of quite simple stories really about me growing up with two cultures and I'm not really...

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I'm not really having a whinge about it, it just is what it is.

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And so I thought, yeah, because of the type of people that attracted to my work, I usually affected emotionally by it.

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I knew that it wouldn't really be affected.

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They'd still continue to like the work.

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And so I felt comfortable doing that.

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And what was interesting, though, after MasterChef and during it,

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all my galleries reported like a triple in the sort of number of inquiries that came in.

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But I knew this would happen, and it did none of them resulted in sales

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and it's that whole thing of hype and I hate hype

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and I hate things that are hip and cool and it's

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because it evaporates it's not real it's like thin air bullshit stuff right

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and I think everyone was just calling because they saw me on MasterChef

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and they're like oh she's a painter and

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so many people complained they were like oh the works are

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so expensive because I thought that I'd just started painting when I was on MasterChef.

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I don't know what they thought but that's how kind of simply people react to the media.

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It's a very shallow medium so people kind of don't really delve into it.

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They just react to things and then they click on your name and it's not really delved into very much.

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So yeah, none of it really translated to sales which is quite interesting.

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So like what it's done though, it has made the people that buy my work really enthusiastic about my work.

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So it's kind of done all the right things, which is really good.

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But it's interesting how you know your market there, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know exactly who your market is.

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Yeah.

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And you know what you can do and what you can deliver to that.

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Yeah.

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And actually, I kind of know what happens with stuff like that, and I was scared that it might happen.

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I thought, if people do start to buy my work because I am on TV, I know what's going to happen.

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There's going to be a whole bunch of resales at some point because people realise they don't even like the work.

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They have no connection to it.

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They're just buying it because I'm on TV, which is a terrible reason to buy work if you don't have a personal connection with it.

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And I've had that happen even with auctions, you know, like I've donated work to charities

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and what happens is people get carried away

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because they want to show off to their friends or whatever

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and they buy work and then like a few weeks later they're trying to flog it off for nothing

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and because they don't really care about the work, they have no connection to it.

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So I was scared that that might happen if I did get those sales but I didn't so it was fine.

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And you've often described the sort of process too, and it sounds a bit that way, between a pendulum, I think you were saying, right?

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Between kind of success and gain or success and effort almost.

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Yeah.

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It swings between the two in terms of you put a whole lot of effort in

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and then success comes and then you've got to sort of work backwards.

428

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

429

I think that the risks, I think the pendulum is a great analogy for risk.

430

The bigger the swing, the bigger the risks you take, the bigger the gains and it's something that I think is studied a lot in business.

431

And if you want to live this kind of quite safe, average, relatively happy life, you take little risks and it works.

432

It's good.

433

Like, if that's what you want.

434

But I think, like, the bigger risks, the bigger amount of excitement also can cause you equal amount of,

435

like, unhappiness and complications in your life and all those kinds of things.

436

So you invite way more variables when you take risks, I think.

437

And tell me about the connection just in terms of the creative process with how does cooking fit with that?

438

Why cooking in terms of that creative process?

439

I think you said something around flavours, use flavours.

440

Oh, how they fit together.

441

Yeah, people always ask me about the parallels with cooking and painting.

442

And there are two things that when I do them, I just feel so okay with myself.

443

I don't really like myself when I'm painting and cooking on a really basic level.

444

I like the way I feel in the world.

445

I feel like the world is a really great place and I get really massive highs from them.

446

Like if I make, you know, a really nice bun or I render like,

447

you know, an ear really nicely on a painting, I would literally just be filled with so much adrenaline I won't be able to sleep.

448

I would just be bouncing around, dancing with my dog or whatever.

449

It's just, yeah, and I feel that, yeah, they're very similar processes in that ingredients and paint are very similar,

450

like how to construct something that's flavour -wise,

451

a cohesive, beautiful thing that sits on a plate

452

and has a nice composition and that people find attractive and want to

453

eat and it's the thing with the painting as well you know it's just it's problem solving with composition

454

and but with color and form instead

455

so yeah i find the processes really really similar it's like you know

456

when i come up with a dish sometimes i think okay

457

so we do that i wonder how that ingredient will fit with

458

that and how how will i make that look attractive on a plate so

459

So it's just like.. you know conceptualizing with a painting

460

so I'll just think okay I want to get

461

that idea across about a bit of like the character

462

I don't know feeling like some something like feeling a bit sad

463

but there's like a I don't know a kind of a wisdom to her face

464

or something like that how do I get that across

465

so it's just like similar ways of trying to find yeah a way to solve the problem

466

Yeah, that's interesting.

467

We've talked in another episode to a guy that was just...

468

Basically the whole path is him solving problems.

469

And it's for the internet.

470

In other words, everything's about solving the next problem.

471

And the tools of his trade were HTML script or whatever the hell they use in programming.

472

Tools of your trade are kind of flavours and colour and probably what's in your mind's eye.

473

Yeah, yeah.

474

What you're thinking and what solutions might be.

475

Yeah, that's right.

476

And so when you taste a dish, after you've experimented, You go, hmm, I feel like something's missing, like texturally.

477

It needs something that's really crunchy to contrast with the thing that's really silky.

478

And with a painting, you can also tell you're like, hmm, it's all kind of a bit homogenous.

479

I feel like something needs to like throw the composition off to make it a little bit more dynamic.

480

You know, it's the same kind of principles, very similar principles.

481

Could you use those principles to your own career, to your own life in terms of thinking about things you can do?

482

Yes, because I was on a good thing.

483

And then I was like, oh, maybe I should throw a spanner in the works.

484

And I did with the whole MasterChef thing.

485

But I never regret anything in my life.

486

But the thing, I just had a thought, what's really interesting is also,

487

I've always felt that in some ways I haven't really had much of a choice.

488

Like when I was in high school, because I was just so bad at certain subjects,

489

I couldn't really pick subjects like towards a course that I wanted to do.

490

I kind of just had to concentrate on passing matric.

491

And then I just kind of found my way into illustration.

492

Yeah, it's been very meandering.

493

Like, I'm very bad at decision making.

494

So I've always just kind of, like, felt my way through things and just really followed my instinct.

495

But, yeah, so I find it interesting that it's just still got me there.

496

Still got me there.

497

So do you think bad decision making has actually helped you?

498

Yeah, I don't know.

499

See, I can't even decide.

500

I can't decide.

501

Yes and no. Yeah, sometimes it has.

502

Yeah, because I think now I kind of always like tempt fate when I can't make a decision.

503

I'm like, something will happen, something really bad or something really good will happen.

504

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

505

But yeah, it's interesting.

506

At certain stages in my life, I've been very like, say yes to everything, say yes to everything, which is actually when MasterChef happened.

507

I was going through this really interesting stage in my life.

508

I just split up with my partner of 10 years and it was kind of this,

509

I felt like there's this real surge in me to kind of do new things

510

and try new things and see what fell in my lap.

511

So, um, hmm.

512

Have you had, is there a group of people,

513

I mean obviously in many of the companies and many of the things that we see start up,

514

is there a group of people or a mentor that's been important to you in this journey?

515

I mean there's been times presumably when you're not knowing where you're going or you're sort of like, am I going to do this forever?

516

I avoid mentors.

517

I don't know what it's like with business but I find in the world creativity,

518

people play their cards quite close to their chest and they bun -steer you.

519

And no one's going to make a decision better than you are.

520

There's so many tiny little variables and nuances to your personality

521

that come into play that telling someone an issue is not really solving the problem.

522

Just tell your mum.

523

And sometimes it's just telling someone, it's like therapy, just telling someone your issue and voicing it, talking about it is useful.

524

But sometimes I find mentors are a little bit naysayer -ish, especially if they're older and they've gone through a different path.

525

Because, like painters, it's not the same world.

526

Anyone can be an entrepreneur now.

527

You can start a cupcake business overnight if you want on the internet.

528

You can do so many things,

529

you know what I mean? because of technology has sped time and it has connected us.

530

It's, you know, shrunk us globally so much.

531

And they didn't have those opportunities when they were younger.

532

So they had to, like, you know, just really do the hard yards.

533

And I think there's a certain amount of resentment

534

that comes from them thinking that you can just do things overnight

535

and be savvy with your social media and be able to find a following just through things like that.

536

So like you get a lot of...

537

Oh, yeah, no, it's very tough, it's very tough.

538

Yeah, I don't know if I'd do it that way.

539

You get a lot of that and then you walk away and you're like, oh, I need to have a shower now.

540

I feel like you've just been on.

541

You know?

542

So, yeah, I think sometimes it's good to just maintain that, that, I don't know, keep things to yourself sometimes actually.

543

It's almost like coaching you to make your own decision rather than telling you what to do.

544

Telling you what to do probably wouldn't work.

545

helping you make your own decision.

546

Otherwise, you're telling someone and hearing yourself back.

547

Yeah, yeah.

548

That's probably the short answer.

549

Yeah.

550

The number of times people hate it that I know.

551

They're like, sir, why are you telling me this?

552

Because obviously you're not going to actually do my own lives.

553

Like, yeah, I just need you as a wall.

554

And you often walk away going, actually, yeah, I did resolve a few things in my head while I was talking to that person.

555

Yeah.

556

Look, we're just about at the end.

557

I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, all right?

558

Just in turn the top of your head type questions.

559

What word do you really hate?

560

Can't or shouldn't.

561

They're not words that you like.

562

No. Shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that, can't do that.

563

Yeah, no. Rules.

564

Boring.

565

How would you describe your job now to a five -year -old?

566

Let's imagine someone looks up on the street, what do you do?

567

Well, I cook on TV, I paint pictures and I write books.

568

That's pretty cool.

569

At your funeral, let's imagine, we don't want to think about that,

570

but what would you most like to hear someone say about you? That she's really funny.

571

That she's funny and fun to be around and encouraging, I think.

572

And what really turns you off and why?

573

I don't like it when people don't have a...

574

What turns me off?

575

So many things.

576

It's a list.

577

I don't like this

578

Gen Y thing.

579

Sorry about the Gen Ys in here.

580

I was thinking that there's just this sense of entitlement and that things happen overnight.

581

Everything that is good in my life happened with loads of hard yakka.

582

It just doesn't happen.

583

If anything good happens to you really quickly, be really suspicious of it.

584

I have been suspicious of this whole MasterChef thing the whole time, up to an hour, when people go, don't you just revel in it?

585

I'm like, nope, I don't.

586

Every day I just look at it and go, something weird is going to happen to me.

587

Because I think it's really interesting when I see these young kids go on MasterChef

588

and they don't realise that it's just this huge machine that's just going to chew them up and spit them out.

589

You don't get handed anything for free.

590

You have to drive it like a workhorse.

591

Even if you come out and you win, you still have to drive it.

592

Nothing comes for free.

593

You have to be passionate about it.

594

You have to want to keep, you know, making it go forward and you have to find new ways to make it go forward.

595

It's just nothing gets handed over to you.

596

Nothing comes for free.

597

It's just, yeah, it comes with all its foibles.

598

It's that pendulum thing again, you know. So just, yeah.

599

Excellent.

600

Thanks very much.

601

Thanks very much for joining us.

602

And, look, thanks so much for sharing that story.

603

I mean, in terms of the whole story and all the bits and pieces, and I dug in a few bits,

604

It's just really cool to hear the real story in terms of how the ups

605

and downs happen and not necessarily just the just the spiel.

606

So that's great.

607

Thank you.

608

Thank you very, very much.

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Từ vựng và ghi chú luyện nói cho bài học này

Bài luyện nói này dựa trên video “Entrepreneurs in Conversation - Poh Ling Yeow - Full Length”. Video này có 608 câu và 7145 từ để luyện shadowing. Phần lời nói dài 38:39. Người nói nói nhanh, khoảng 185 từ mỗi phút, nên sẽ có nhiều chỗ nối âm và nuốt âm. 86% số từ nằm trong 3.000 từ tiếng Anh thông dụng nhất; phần còn lại nên xem trước khi luyện.

Từ vựng quan trọng trong video

15 từ đáng học trong video, kèm phiên âm và nghĩa:

Từ	Phiên âm	Nghĩa
solve động từ	/sɒlv/	giải quyết
principle danh từ	/ˈpɹɪn.sɪ.pəl/	nguyên lí, nguyên tắc
encourage động từ	/ɪnˈkʌɹ.ɪd͡ʒ/	cổ vũ, khích lệ
composition danh từ	/ˌkɑm.pəˈzɪʃ.ən/	thành phần
overnight trạng từ	/əʊvə(ɹ)ˈnaɪt/	qua đêm
mathematics danh từ	/mæθ(.ə)ˈmæt.ɪks/	toán học
creativity danh từ	/kri.eɪˈtɪv.ᵻ.ti/	óc sáng tạo, tính sáng tạo
complicated tính từ	/ˈkɑm.plɪˌkeɪ.tɪd/	phức tạp
designer danh từ	/dɪˈzaɪnɚ/	nhà thiết kế
phrase danh từ	/ˈfɹeɪ̯z/	cụm từ, câu
overseas trạng từ	/ˌoʊvɚˈsiːz/	hải ngoại, ngoài nước
dish danh từ	/dɪʃ/	đĩa
perception danh từ	/pɚˈsɛpʃ(ə)n/	tri giác
publisher danh từ	/ˈpʌblɪʃɚ/	người xuất bản, nhà xuất bản
concentrate động từ	/ˈkɑn.sən.tɹeɪt/	cô

Cụm động từ bạn sẽ nghe

Từ	Nghĩa
come back động từ	trở lại, trở về
sit down động từ	ngồi xuống, ngồi

Những câu đáng luyện lại

Các câu ngắn, trọn ý trong video mà bạn có thể dùng lại khi giao tiếp hằng ngày:

It's like why wouldn't I just try that now?
Why don't we have a serious poe on the front?
Why don't we have one where I'm like quite intense?
They're like, sir, why are you telling me this?
I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, all right?

Ngữ pháp trong video

Những cấu trúc người nói dùng nhiều nhất, kèm đúng cụm từ trong video:

Cấu trúc	Trong video
“Used to” used to + động từ — thói quen hoặc tình trạng trong quá khứ nay không còn	used to get · used to have · used to just
Thì hiện tại hoàn thành have/has + quá khứ phân từ — việc đã xảy ra nhưng còn liên quan đến hiện tại	have taken · they've done · I've always been
Câu bị động be + quá khứ phân từ — nhấn vào việc xảy ra, không phải người làm	are deemed · be said · was streamed
Mệnh đề quan hệ who / which + mệnh đề — thêm thông tin về người hoặc vật	people who have · Communications, which is · sales which is

Phát âm cần chú ý

Người nói dùng 198 dạng rút gọn, ví dụ don't, you're, I'm. Hãy nói theo dạng ngắn đúng như bạn nghe.

Âm “th”: mathematics /mæθ(.ə)ˈmæt.ɪks/, thin /ˈθɪn/, aesthetic /ɛsˈθɛ.tɪk/
Âm “sh” và “zh”: composition /ˌkɑm.pəˈzɪʃ.ən/, dish /dɪʃ/, perception /pɚˈsɛpʃ(ə)n/, publisher /ˈpʌblɪʃɚ/, suspicious /səˈspɪʃ.əs/
Từ dài — đặt trọng âm cho đúng: necessarily /ˌnɛs.əˈsɛɹ.ə.li/, composition /ˌkɑm.pəˈzɪʃ.ən/, mathematics /mæθ(.ə)ˈmæt.ɪks/, creativity /kri.eɪˈtɪv.ᵻ.ti/, complicated /ˈkɑm.plɪˌkeɪ.tɪd/

Những âm người Việt thường gặp khó:

Cụm phụ âm cuối — đọc đủ từng âm, đừng nuốt âm cuối: solve /sɒlv/, mathematics /mæθ(.ə)ˈmæt.ɪks/, react /ɹiːˈækt/, instinct /ˈɪn.stɪŋkt/, ingredient /ɪnˈɡɹiːdi.ənt/
Âm /tʃ/, /dʒ/ và /ʒ/ — tiếng Việt không có, đừng đọc thành “ch” hay “gi”: encourage /ɪnˈkʌɹ.ɪd͡ʒ/, adventure /ədˈvɛn.t͡ʃə/, mature /məˈt͡ʃʊ(ə)ɹ/, tragedy /ˈtɹæd͡ʒ.ɪ.di/, sandwich /ˈsæn(d).wɪd͡ʒ/
Âm /æ/ — mở miệng rộng hơn âm “e”: exam /ɪɡˈzæm/, mathematics /mæθ(.ə)ˈmæt.ɪks/, react /ɹiːˈækt/, variable [ˈvæɹ.i.ə.bl̩], translate /tɹænzˈleɪt/

Cách luyện với video này

Nghe hết video một lần, chưa cần nói, và ghi lại những từ bạn chưa biết.
Bắt đầu ở tốc độ 0,75×, nói đuổi từng câu, rồi quay lại tốc độ bình thường khi đã quen.
Ghi âm giọng mình rồi so với bản gốc, chú ý các từ như solve, principle, encourage.

Phương Pháp Shadowing Là Gì?

Shadowing là kỹ thuật học ngôn ngữ có cơ sở khoa học, ban đầu được phát triển cho chương trình đào tạo phiên dịch viên chuyên nghiệp và được phổ biến rộng rãi bởi nhà đa ngôn ngữ học Dr. Alexander Arguelles. Nguyên lý cốt lõi đơn giản nhưng cực kỳ hiệu quả: bạn nghe tiếng Anh của người bản xứ và lặp lại to ngay lập tức — như một "cái bóng" (shadow) đuổi theo người nói với độ trễ chỉ 1–2 giây. Khác với luyện ngữ pháp hay học từ vựng bị động, Shadowing buộc não bộ và cơ miệng phải đồng thời xử lý và tái tạo ngôn ngữ thực tế. Các nghiên cứu khoa học xác nhận phương pháp này cải thiện đáng kể phát âm, ngữ điệu, nhịp điệu, nối âm, kỹ năng nghe và độ lưu loát khi nói — đặc biệt hiệu quả cho người luyện IELTS Speaking và muốn giao tiếp tiếng Anh tự nhiên như người bản ngữ.

Phương pháp shadowing: đọc hướng dẫn từng bước đầy đủ →

Luyện nói tiếng Anh bằng Shadowing qua video: Entrepreneurs in Conversation - Poh Ling Yeow - Full Length

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Cụm động từ bạn sẽ nghe

Những câu đáng luyện lại

Ngữ pháp trong video

Phát âm cần chú ý

Cách luyện với video này

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