تدريب Shadowing: Who Is Nick Fuentes? | The Ezra Klein Show - تعلم التحدث بالإنجليزية عبر الفيديو

Who is Nick Fuentes?

Nick Fuentes, I would say, is the most popular representative of neo-Nazism in America.

Expand.

Well, by his own story, he comes from a middle-class background in the suburbs of Chicago.

He became interested in political activism.

He was a fervent Trump supporter.

and then he ran afoul, according to him, of some gatekeepers in the conservative movement,

namely Ben Shapiro, who accused him of anti-Semitism when he asked questions about U.S policy towards Israel.

And then over the years,

he assembled a following of other disaffected young men,

and he launched two campaigns

that he called the Groyper Wars to basically pressure mainstream conservative figures to move rightward on issues to do with race,

with LGBTQ issues, and with Israel and the subtext being there, the Jewish question, Jews.

So he's not that subtext-oriented compared to some people in this movement.

I mean, he'll talk about an admiration for Adolf Hitler.

He doesn't just talk about Israel.

He talks about the Jews.

You know, we have to go a little bit further than to say something's up with the Zionists or Israel.

It's not Israel.

It is the Jews.

And once again, remember who is responsible for it all, the Jews.

They are responsible for every war in the world.

It's not even debatable at this point.

Hitler was a pedophile and kind of a pagan.

It's like, well, he was also really fucking cool.

There's something, there are figures here who it feels like they try to keep a mask on.

Yeah, and he doesn't.

He doesn't.

And I think that's a key part of his appeal.

I think that his viewers find that refreshing.

They find it titillating.

And they find it to be reflective of their politics.

You mentioned the Groypers.

Yeah.

What's a Groyper?

Well, let me tell you a story of how I learned what Groypers are.

I was writing a piece for the New Republic about five years ago about the right.

And I was learning about what were young people on the right like?

What were they thinking about?

How do they respond to trump and what was the future of conservative media

and elites in the trump era in the course of this i kind of uh befriended some young right-wing guys

and they kept on talking about groypers great for scorpions

and i didn't really know what it was and then i realized

that they were kind of a subculture of a of online of trolls

and kind of marginal figures and they had often as their avi

or their avatar profile picture this this kind of grotesque uh

toad that looked like pepe the frog uh and it's my understanding

that this subculture is larger than nick fuentes

and not necessarily under his control or direction but

that he uh speaks for them he attempts to speak for them

and to unite them into a sort of political force but what do Do the Groypers believe?

I mean, this is a very meme-heavy,

online, trollish subculture that is endlessly dancing on the edge of, oh, aren't we just joking?

Yeah.

And so pinning it down can be a little bit like trying to pin smoke.

Right.

Because you focus in on a view, a meme.

It's like, oh, you have no sense of humor.

Yeah.

But it's a classic.

First, you're making jokes about the gas chambers.

than you're thinking about sending your enemies to them.

Yeah, I think it's a little difficult for people to understand because we're accustomed to thinking of politics coming from ideas,

coming from intellectuals, elites, media figures that disseminate ideas.

And this kind of goes in the other direction.

It bubbles up from message boards.

It bubbles up from memes, jokes, ironic playfulness.

But basically, the text, not the subtext of all of them, is kind of a constant barrage of propaganda that's anti-Semitic,

racist, misogynistic, homophobic, you name it.

And also a lot of content that is conspiratorial, obviously, that sees shadowy actors running the government and is also deeply dissatisfied

with the state of America and the prospects it has for people like them.

So you write this piece on, actually you read a couple pieces on the Goy purification of the Republican Party, and you wrote, quote, Here's the thing to understand.

Every single person under say the age of 40 on the

right is exposed to extremely high levels of Goyper content every day in group chats, on their social media timelines, in discord chats, et cetera.

Goyperism totally suffuses the cultural environment of the right.

And this point about the people under the age of 40, this idea that there is a pretty big difference in what the 20-somethings on the right are like

and what the 50-somethings are like.

I hear that from the right all the time.

So for people who do not have texture of that cultural environment, what are you describing?

What are they seeing?

What does that cultural environment look and feel like?

Well, I mean, just recently there were a couple of leaks

about and political reported one of them about group chats and

and basically yeah it's a it's an environment where there's a lot of sharing of of memes

and and jokes and repetition of of memes

and lots of uh joking about the holocaust joking about hitler joking about you know uh blacks

and and and you know uh making jokes about slavery

and it's just a kind of anarchic indulgence of a very sadistic id

that usually involves you know um the humiliation of minorities or women

so a lot of the energy of this

and a lot of the way it would get defended yeah is

that the right in the you know late 2010s early 2020s

its big enemy was the woke mob cancel culture the thought police gatekeepers yeah and you would hear this described um as

joking but a provocation about that it is showing that you can say

what the cultural enforcers don't want you to say um richard anania the sort of dissident right

figure and intellectual describes it as like the based ritual where people on the maga right get together

and keep upping the ante to show yeah that they are not part of the establishment they're part of this counter-revolutionary force.

How do you think about the interplay between whatever that was?

Because I take it as there was a sort of culture

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that emerged in response to censoriousness and then the movement into actual belief.

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Well, yeah, I think that that was a way

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that people could justify to themselves what they were seeing on an everyday level.

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And some people could say to themselves and to others

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that basically they were participating in a cultural revolt against this censorious this censorious uh state of affairs

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that um and that was their interest which was to tear down those norms

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and to open a space of freedom freedom to do what

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is the question is it just to you know say

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and do racist things i don't know um so i think it created a structure in which you know, those ideas spread rapidly.

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The I i even to call them ideas is wrong these these memes really uh spread rapidly

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and made it so people who might have been uncomfortable with it

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or may have found it uh at variance with their with

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the way they were raised uh to kind of look the other way

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and say you know we are in a sense playing around

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and the first thing that does it seems to me is you're breaking down an immune system that people have yeah

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And you can't extricate this, in my view, from Trump.

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No. If you have any hint left of that attachment to old norms and mores and courtesies,

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well, then you can't be a true Trumpist because he doesn't attach to any of that.

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And so you begin demonstrating a cultural affinity to that kind of politics of provocation and politics of no rules.

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once you've done that then you actually don't have

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that immune system anymore you're breaking down the immune system that was supposed to protect against people like donald trump himself

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absolutely i think your point about trump being the the originator of this is is is important um

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when trump appears

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and people seem to forget this for some reason in 2016-15

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uh there was a lot of talk about the alt-right a term that's not used very much anymore

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but these people you know who had previously been on the fringes of American politics, greeted the arrival of Trump, you know, basically with rapture.

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Yeah.

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Ecstatically.

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Ecstatically.

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And they knew that this was their kind of guy.

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They knew that the things that he said would open a space for them.

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If he wasn't precisely a perfect vehicle for their politics, it was a real big breakthrough.

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So you have, you know, these people crawling out of the woodwork of Richard Spencer.

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You have the Charlottesville riots.

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And then there is kind of a backlash.

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And those people seem to sort of get pushed out.

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There's not that much talk about alt-nationalism, the alt-right anymore.

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And Trump also doesn't really seem to be adopting some of their preferences in foreign policy and also not,

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you know, he makes some very tasteless remarks about Jews, but not an ideological anti-Semitism that they would want him to do.

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So this thing kind of goes on the back burner, but it's very much diffusing the culture of young right wingers who are not,

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you know, they're in the intermediate and lower ranks of the various,

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you know, bureaucracies, the various staffs of conservative institutions.

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And yeah, it never really fully goes away.

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