Shadowing Practice: The Difference Between Happiness and Joy Explained | Fr. Mike Schmitz and Bishop Barron - Learn English Speaking with Video
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If Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas, what is that?
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Here's Jesus who says, I came that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
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What is he making complete?
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Okay, what is it?
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And then how do you find it?
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Yeah.
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So that's, you might say, is the central question of the Christian life.
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Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz.
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In this series, we're talking with three special guests about the spiritual discipline of
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Christian joy in preparation for the Advent series in the Ascension app, Joy to the World.
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And I'm releasing a new video on the Ascension app every day during
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Advent with reflection on what it means to be joyful.
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If you'd like to see more, be sure to download the Ascension app from the App Store on your smartphone or tablet,
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or you can visit ascensionpress .com slash fathermikeadvent.
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Today, first of our conversation, I'm joined by Bishop Robert Barron, Bishop of the Diocese of Rochester and Winona in the great state of Minnesota,
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also the founder of Word on Fire and the host of Catholicism Project, which how many years ago was Catholicism?
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It came out in 2011.
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That's incredible.
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Yeah, 15 years it's been.
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And it's made such an impact in the world.
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Yeah, thank God.
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I mean, as has
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Word on Fire, as an entire company, it just brought the gospel to so many people.
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Appreciate that a lot.
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We just had our 25th anniversary.
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We started really about the year 2000.
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So last year we had our 25th anniversary.
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Based out of Chicago.
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Yeah, started in Chicago.
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And it's just on WGN radio at 5 .15 on Sunday morning.
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I asked them, you know, how much would it cost to get a radio show?
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And they said about $50 ,000.
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And so I raised that money for my parish, and that's how we started.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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And it's become this.
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Yeah, thank God.
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And so many people have come to know the gospel.
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And, you know, so I'm reflecting on this, reflecting on the fact that, you know, Pope Francis had talked about the joy of the gospel.
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And here we are in preparation for Advent.
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I came across something that said that
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Advent is described to Advent like this is that
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Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas.
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And one of the things that it did for me is that it kind of reminded me that,
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you know, as Christians, we're not waiting for Christmas to be joyful.
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Like, note that if Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for a celebration of Christmas,
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then joy gets to be part—joy is part of the process.
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Yeah, and also liturgically, we've heard to Lent as a joyful season.
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Really?
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This joyful season of penitence.
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Yeah.
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Which is a clue.
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See, that joy, as we're describing it today, doesn't have really to do with happy, clappy feelings, right?
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It's something else.
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It's something deeper, more abiding.
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So that's interesting how the prayer of the church signals this difference.
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Kind of forms this for us.
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And so that's actually one of my first questions is, if Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas, what is that?
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What is joy?
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Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting question.
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And it's so central to our tradition.
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Yeah, we use the word all the time.
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Right.
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And the fact that Aquinas structures his whole moral theology not around law, I find it really interesting.
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If you look at the second part of the Summa where he talks about the moral life, right?
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Question 90, 9 -0, question 90 is when he first broaches the law.
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A lot of people say, well, morality is all about law, isn't it?
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But the first question he raises is about the Attitude, happiness, the one thing we all want.
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And then he explores what it isn't.
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It's not this, not this, not this, not that.
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It must be this, right?
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And then from that starting point, you develop your moral theology.
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This guy, Father Cervé Pincares, who was a great
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Dominican moral theologian, he rediscovered that for our time.
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This great book called The Sources of Catholic Ethics, I think, to my mind, the best book about moral theology since the Council.
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He was very influential on John Paul II.
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But he insisted upon that.
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You don't start moral theology with the law.
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You start it with happiness.
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What do we want?
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What is this elusive thing that we all want?
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And once you identify it, now you know how to structure your life.
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Like, what are you looking for?
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What is it?
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What are you looking for?
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Well, we're all looking for happiness.
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Everybody, from the saint to the worst sinner, is all looking for happiness.
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Okay, what is it?
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And then how do you find it?
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So that's, you might say, is the central question of the Christian life.
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Well, when you say that he goes through, Thomas Aquinas goes through, here's what it's not.
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Right.
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So what is that for us?
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Because we can conflate happiness and joy, but also we can say, like, well, I want that, whatever that is.
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But we pursue happiness or pursue joy, beatitude, we think, but we're pursuing the wrong thing.
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What is it not?
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Yeah, well, I find that text super clarifying.
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I've been teaching on it for years, where Thomas says, Wealth, pleasure, honor, and power are the four things that we typically seek.
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We think, that'll make me happy, right?
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And talk to most people.
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What do you want?
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You say to a young person in college, well, I want to be wealthy if I can.
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I can be powerful.
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I want to be famous.
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Wasn't there a survey a couple years ago talking to young people?
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What they most wanted, it wasn't wealth so much, or power.
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It was to be famous on the Internet, right?
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That I'm an influencer.
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Well, famous for what?
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I don't really care.
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It's fun to be famous.
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It doesn't matter, yeah.
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So wealth, pleasure, power, honor.
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Pleasure.
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Look, just give me enough pleasure of the senses or of sex or of booze or drugs or whatever it is.
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I'll be happy.
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Now, see, what happens, and Aquinas saw this, we're wired for God.
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That's what we really want, right?
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The heart's restless to the rest of God.
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So we really want God.
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So anything less than God will leave us empty and dissatisfied and eventually addicted because I'm going to keep wanting it,
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wanting it, wanting it, wanting it, and it won't satisfy me.
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I'll get more and more frustrated.
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And like Chesterton says, I'll be like this little train just circling obsessively around, right?
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Yeah.
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That's the problem.
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See, Aquinas saw that very clearly.
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And you know this.
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I mean, pastorally, a lot of our work is that, is helping people see, you know, you've tried this path, that's not it.
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I remember dealing, when I was in the parish, with, you know, this middle -aged guy, 45 or 50.
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And the opening line, he said to me, was, Father, all my dreams have come true, and I'm miserable.
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Really?
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Yeah, and it was beautiful, self -diagnosis.
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Right, exactly.
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Like, all my dreams, I've attained everything I ever wanted, and I'm miserable.
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In other words, I didn't find beatitudo, right?
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And so then I tried to kind of, okay, well, this is why.
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You're not meant for those things.
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But see, getting clarity on that is so important.
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And authentic joy or happiness, whatever you want to call it, authentic beatitudo has to do with that.
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Right.
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It's the right orientation of your life.
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So it doesn't involve power, pleasure, fame, or...
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Well, here's the trick.
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See, it's very interesting.
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The trick is, once I am rightly aligned toward the will of God, that's what I want.
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Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and the rest will be given to you.
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Meaning, I think, then if you get wealth, you'll know what to do with it, and it won't wreck you.
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If you get pleasure, you'll know how to handle it, and it won't wreck you.
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If you get honored—so Thomas says honor is the flag of virtue.
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It's a cool description.
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It's a way of saying, hey, look at that guy.
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Look at her.
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She's really good.
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Honor is just the flag.
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Don't get addicted to the stupid flag.
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Oh, I want more flags, more flags. So stupid.
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That's honor.
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If I'm rightly aligned, then I can handle wealth, pleasure, power, honor.
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In fact, I can use them for God's purposes.
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That's the trick.
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But see, what happens is everyone gets addicted to these lesser goods, and they turn on you.
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See, they'll devour you.
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Anyone involved in pastoral ministry, we all know that, right?
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People get devoured by their addictions.
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It's for freedom that
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Christ has set you free, says Paul, to be free from those addictions.
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And now I'm ordered to God, and now I'm free to live the way God wants me to, and I can use whatever comes my way.
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Those things or anything else, like even sickness, even suffering, right?
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I know how to use it for the sake of God's purpose.
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Well, so then, and then, so I really appreciate that because we, like you said, we look for happiness,
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we look for joy in all those places.
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But if we're saying, okay, but here's what we're really made for.
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Yeah.
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And not just in the sense of we're made for the Lord.
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I mean, St. Augustine talks about this, our hearts are restless until they rest in you, oh Lord.
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Yeah.
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But there's that, what's promised there is a place of rest.
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Is that what joy is?
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Is joy a place of, is it peace? is joy, ecstasy, is joy, happiness.
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Yeah.
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Well, there's a couple ways to look at it.
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I love the word, you know, shalom, which runs through the Bible.
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And of course, the risen Jesus, that's what he says to his disciples, shalom.
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Peace is a good way to name it.
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Because peace is not the same as, again, happy, clappy feelings or feeling good.
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And again, I'm not against feeling good.
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You know, I'm a Catholic.
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I'm not playing either or games.
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Feeling good is great.
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Like the other a night, I get here in Nashville, and I had this filet mignon, and it was just great.
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And I mean, the filet mignon, that's a great sensual pleasure.
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Nothing in the world wrong with that.
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Wherever the Catholic sun does shine, there's music and laughter and good red wine.
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Great.
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But that's not the same as Beatitudo.
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That's a good thing.
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It's a blessing.
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But Beatitudo is something stranger and rarer and deeper.
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And Shalom kind of names it at peace, at the depth of your life.
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Only in God is my soul at rest.
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And the rest thing is interesting.
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It doesn't mean like I'm in a hammock.
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I'm just resting.
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It means something like savoring, I think.
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So like Aquinas says, there are two moves of the will, to seek the absent good, but then to savor the present good.
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It's like right now, there's something good, our conversation.
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We're both resting in it.
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You know, we're just, all right, I'm savoring this moment.
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Good, good.
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What God wants for all of us is to savor him, ultimately, to rest in him.
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So when someone's dying, we say, you know, may he rest in peace.
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It doesn't mean may he be in a hammock for all eternity.
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Take a nap.
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Right, take a nap.
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It means savor now the good that you've been seeking, and now you're in the presence of it.
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That's getting closer to beatitudo, joy, shalom, peace.
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That's what it's about.
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Now, at least in this life, good feeling and shalom don't always come together.
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Right.
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The hope is, this is heaven.
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The hope is, yes, that those will come together in this perfect harmony.
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Here below, shoot for shalom, shoot for beatitudo, and then you'll know what to do with good feeling and bad feeling.
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It's part of that.
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I've heard you say before, and it actually reframed a lot of the ways that I look at the first commandment about having no other gods.
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And I thought, okay, we've gots first.
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But you had framed it in such a way, I don't know if you do it regularly or if it's something I came across,
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and I was like, oh, my gosh, this has revolutionized how I approach it.
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But that sense of, is God the spiritual center of gravity in my life?
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That sense of, is he not just first in a line of things that are important, but he's the spiritual central.
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And it seems like that kind of joy would be this, I'm abiding in that place where the spiritual center of gravity is the center,
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as opposed to like wobbly.
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Yes.
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And see, now I'll go back to people like Ignacio Viola.
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If I'm detached from the finite goods of the world, he can say, whether I have a long life or short life, I don't care.
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Whether I'm famous or not, I don't care.
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Whether I'm wealthy or poor, whether I'm healthy or sick.
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So that's in this life, I'm living in the center,
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and I can look at my ever -changing fortunes with a kind of detachment because I'm seeking first the will of God.
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That's what I want.
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And in light of that desire, I can situate and organize all the other interests, happenings, events of my life um
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that's the in some ways the central challenge of the spiritual life
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i think how do i handle everything
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now in light of this i like the center of gravity language that's that's right
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or like the sun around which the planets revolve so
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because we there's a sun in all of our lives there's something some great center of gravity around
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which things revolve what happens to us sinners a lot is God becomes like a little planet that's revolving around.
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Usually, it's my own ego.
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It's the center of gravity.
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And so, wealth, pleasure, power, honor, God.
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And they're all kind of revolving around.
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Metanoia, conversion means, yeah, I'm changing that.
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I'm rearranging that.
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God is the...
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So, my life is not about me.
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That phrase I always liked, your life is not about this copernican revolution right in a way that's just like no here's god
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and that's the center metanoia is a copernican revolution in your spiritual life
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which is why it's so darn hard yeah that's why we resisted we sinners
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because look my life's kind of in order i know i'm kind of unhappy a lot
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but at least it's in order you know i always think of it it's a cure of ours
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when he was asked what have you learned about human beings after all these years of hearing
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you know thousands of confessions he said that people are much sadder than they seem which strikes me as dead right.
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Most of us play kind of a game with ourselves and with each other about, oh, I'm doing fine.
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But most of us are sadder than we seem because the spiritual equilibrium is off, and we don't have God in the center of our lives.
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And the joyful person, the way you're pursuing it correctly, is that person that's made that Copernican revolution.
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Wow, I need to sit with what
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St. John Gandy said.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah because it resonates in so many ways
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and it's and it's not even necessarily just
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that people are putting on a face as much as it is where i'm distracting myself right um
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and so even as we enter into like you know advent into christmas there's
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that that sense of i'm i'm i'm happier why well
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because i'm full of distractions i'm feeling my life with nostalgia i'm feeling my life with things
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that are memories of other times
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when i was happy as opposed to entering into silence that
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that season of advent being an opportunity where it's i can listen that's dead right
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because that's pascal isn't it right
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that most of our lives are he called them divertissement diversions i divert myself with
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and in his case was gambling he was a gambler
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so he played the great pascal one of the great minds of the western world
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but he spent hours and hours at gambling tables right at least he got
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that one analogy out of it the wager yeah yeah that's right no that's
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Right, the Pascal's Wager is born from that thing.
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But most of us sinners,
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he said, spend most of our lives distracting ourselves from the central question of conversion and metanoia, following Christ.
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We divert ourselves, and then we convince ourselves, well, I guess I'm doing okay.
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I'm kind of basically happy.
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He says, put down the diversions.
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And actually, Advent and Lent, both, are great seasons for that.
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Naming, what are my diversions?
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We all have them.
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We all have them.
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Name them and set them aside.
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Like one thing I did was it was last, no, two years ago for the first time.
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I said during
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Lent, one day I'm putting the phone away.
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I'm going to put it in a drawer.
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And I made it.
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The whole day.
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Yeah.
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And I made a deal with my assistant.
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I said, if she had to reach me for some reason, we had a way to do it.
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But I just said, no, no, it's going to go in a drawer.
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And I'll look at it again the end of the day, but the entire day.
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And, you know, it was hard, but, man, it was liberating.
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Yeah, I bet.
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Because those stupid machines, they're a classic divertissement.
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They're a great diversion.
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They've been made that way.
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You refresh, you refresh, and it's like gambling.
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It's like the one -armed bandit.
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They're designed to be addictive, and they work.
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Like everyone, I'm addicted to it.
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So you have to set it aside.
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But name what your diversion is, and then try to at least set that aside.
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Which is funny, because we think about diversions, that's what makes me happy.
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What do you do to make you happy?
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Well, I play this, I do that, I do these other things.
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And so there's a connection, but at the same time, it's a false promise, right?
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Yeah.
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And here's Jesus who says, what is his promise?
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He says, I came that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.
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And that sense of what is he making complete?
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What is that thing?
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He's making following the will of God because our joy now in this real sense, whatever term you want to use,
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I'll say beatitudo, is to follow the will of God, is to align your will to the will of God.
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God is love.
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To love is to will the good of the other.
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So when our wills are aligned to God's will and purpose, that's what we do.
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That's what we look like, right?
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That's what Aquinas can say.
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It's such a weird but wonderful observation.
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If you want to see a happy man, look at Jesus on the cross.
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Now, why?
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Because he said, well, you need to love what he loved on the cross and despise what he despised on the cross.
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What do you despise?
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Wealth, pleasure, power, honor, right?
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All the things.
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There he is, stripped of all those things.
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None of them.
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He's utterly detached, which is why he becomes on the cross the great peacemaker.
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He's the single -hearted.
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He's hungry and thirsting for righteousness.
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Now go back to the Beatitudes.
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Again, that's Aquinas.
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You want to see the Beatitudes in action.
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It's the cross of Jesus.
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So that's, again, the weird thing.
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Who's a happy person?
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And we say, oh, well, this guy looks happy.
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Yeah, he's the happiest person you know.
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Point to the cross.
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Yeah.
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And, again, it's weird because it's not a place of good feelings, certainly.
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He's stripped of good feelings.
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But there's an image of a happy person.
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All the weirdness and wonder of Christianity is in that coin.
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It is weird and wonderful.
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Yeah.
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But that sense of like, it would involve a redefinition of what we're offering.
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Right.
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It's like, come to know Jesus and experience joy.
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Yeah.
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But someone says, well, that means I'm going to feel a certain way.
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And we would say it might.
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It might, yeah.
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But it's not a feeling thing.
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And again, feelings aren't bad.
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I think of like when I was in California as a bishop, one of my favorite things, if I found the time,
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toward the end of the day, I'd go for a hike up in the mountains right near my house.
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And it was really tough.
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It was a tough climb up.
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I got to the top, and then I would pray in my evening office sitting on this fence post overlooking the city of Santa Barbara.
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Then I would walk kind of down the hill to my house.
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And then I would sit, and my back porch, beautiful, in Santa Barbara, and I drink some water or something,
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and the endorphins are unleashed because you've been exercising.
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I love that.
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It was like the filet mignon.
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It was a great moment, great feeling.
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Okay, great.
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Thank you, Lord, for that.
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But it passed.
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Of course, it always passes.
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You finish the water.
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And I'm like, all right, now what's next?
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So don't equate happiness in this sense with that, but that's good.
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And when it happens, you should savor it and thank God for it.
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If you can embrace it.
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Embrace it.
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Yeah, it's a gift.
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But if it doesn't happen, you can still be happy.
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See, that's why you're much more in control of your life.
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Is that conditional?
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Right.
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If your joy depends upon good feelings, now, see, he goes, what happens?
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Oh, I better take some more drugs to get that feeling.
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I better take more booze to get that feeling.
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I better, now I'm addicted to all these things so I can get that feeling.
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I don't know.
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Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and the rest will find its place.
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So the good feeling is like a planet going around, but so are bad feelings.
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And they find their place, right?
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But the focus is on the center.
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So the one thing that remains.
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Yeah, unum necessarium.
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Like you just said, I want to highlight this because I think it was really important, everything you said was, but that sense that,
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okay, good times, good feelings pass.
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Yeah.
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But so do bad times and bad feelings pass.
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That's right.
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And so I'm detached from both.
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In what, like in nature of Loyola.
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Yeah.
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Right, that sense that I just— So you want
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Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.
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Maybe I've discussed it with you before, I use it all the time, is that Wheel of Fortune image from the Gothic churches.
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That's the same idea.
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You live in the center of the wheel, not the rim that's always turning.
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That's life.
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It's always turning.
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But don't live on that.
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Live in the center and then watch it turn.
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That's okay.
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Whether I've got a long life or a short life, whether I'm wealthy or poor, whether I'm healthy or sick.
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Okay, I'm watching with a kind of insouciance, with a kind of detachment, a kind of indifference, spiritually speaking.
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But live in the center.
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That's the joyful place to live, right?
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Yeah, exactly.
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And I came across this quote that I kind of base this
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Advent reflection off by G .K.
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Chesterton.
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Yeah.
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And Chesterton had said, joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian.
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And that sense of that question—well, what would you say about that quote?
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Have you ever heard that before?
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Maybe I'm misquoting someone who was actually— I don't know if I have heard that.
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I mean, it's typical Chesterton, you know, brilliant and pithy and everything.
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No, that's what we're offering to the world, right?
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That's the secret is you don't find it in the typical ways.
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But we've got the secret, which is that's the treasure buried in the field, right?
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That's the pearl of great price.
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When you found that, sell everything.
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Sell the rest of it, wealth and pleasure, power.
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Sell all that.
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You found the pearl of great price, so get that.
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Or the treasure buried in the field is good because it's buried in me somewhere.
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It's this deep desire for God.
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And if I find that, get rid of everything else.
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Don't waste your time with the rest of it.
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Well, in some ways, the way as you're describing it, as you're kind of unpacking this in just impromptu, you know, just coming into it fresh,
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what I'm hearing is almost the equivalent of God himself.
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That God himself is the gigantic secret of the Christian.
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It's this sense of if you have him, then you have that sense of that abiding sense of well -being.
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You have the center of gravity.
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You have the thing that you're made for, beatitude.
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Right.
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And then there's Aquinas again.
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So it's not wealth, not pleasure, not power, not honor.
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What is it?
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His answer is God.
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The one thing that will fill us up and satisfy us is God.
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Or St. John of the Cross with the infinite caverns in us.
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And that's the infinite hunger for God.
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But I keep throwing all these finite things into it.
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Well, you put anything finite into the infinite cavern, it just goes.
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Exactly.
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It doesn't fill you up.
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It can't.
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But only God can fill you up.
470
So that's the answer, you know?
471
And seek that first, and God will fill you up.
472
That's what he wants to do, right? And see,
473
a lot of life—now we'll get into another subtlety in the spiritual order—is why does God strip us of these things?
474
Now, see, again, John of the Cross, things like the dark night.
475
The dark night is not like depression.
476
The dark night is these moments of detachment.
477
There can be the active dark night when I do it myself where I say, you know what?
478
I'm too attached.
479
Like, we put the cell phone on.
480
It's this time of penance.
481
Right.
482
That's the active dark night.
483
I'm going to put it.
484
But then, see, the passive dark night, it's really interesting because it's like, all right, if I'm not willing to do it,
485
God will do it for me.
486
He'll take away from me what I'm attached to, wealth, pleasure, power, honor, whatever it is.
487
And we say, oh, why did this happen to me?
488
Why is God being so cruel?
489
Yeah, to what end?
490
What's he doing?
491
But what he's doing is stripping things away that you might find him.
492
It's tough stuff.
493
That's high -octane Christian spirituality.
494
When God—God is never just at the top of the holy mountain and up there indifferently waiting for us to climb.
495
God is active, operative.
496
He knows me better than I know myself.
497
He knows my addictions better than I do.
498
And so he's trying to rid me of them.
499
So it's a way to read your own suffering sometimes.
500
Well, as you're describing that, here's someone who's listening to this.
501
And it's like, wait a second.
502
Here is this.
503
What you're saying is that at some point, God might need to purify me.
504
Yeah.
505
But my experience is that he's punishing me.
506
Like, my experience is not that, oh, this is so good what he's doing.
507
My experience is I am being crushed by this.
508
what is the maybe that you'd say here's the the christian who is experience experiencing purification
509
but they're experiencing as punishing what is a thing they can do
510
or reorient their vision for seeing okay god i i see not punishing
511
i see purifying maybe this again from is that whatever exists is god's will either his his active will
512
Or his permissive will.
513
So, I mean, whatever—you and I being here right now are the result of God's active will.
514
Because it's happening.
515
He wants this to happen.
516
Something bad happens, well, Christ will say, through God's permissive will.
517
God never actively wills bad things.
518
But he permits what we experience as bad things.
519
Always what?
520
Out of love, because that's all God is.
521
That's all he knows how to do.
522
There's nothing in his bag of tricks except love, because that's what he is.
523
Right?
524
So he can't.
525
In that way, we're more complex than God.
526
God is simple, Aquinas says.
527
And part of that simplicity is the simplicity of his nature.
528
So all he knows how to do is love.
529
So if something negative, at least from our perspective, is happening, we say, well, it's God's permissive will.
530
So why would he permit it?
531
And now see, it changes your whole perspective.
532
Now, like, poor me, I'm getting punished.
533
But, okay, why would God permit this to happen?
534
out of some, now, purification or some,
535
you know, stripping away or some detachment so I can fall more deeply in love with him, right?
536
So it's an attitudinal shift.
537
Again, that's metanoia, go beyond the mind you have, right?
538
Right, with that attitude, that's so important.
539
So basically, if I know the character of God, like you said, I know that he is love.
540
That's all he knows how to do.
541
And I trust it.
542
I trust him.
543
then maybe I can say what I used to see as this is punishment, or this is God even being indifferent to me.
544
He doesn't care.
545
He's just allowing me to get buffeted about by suffering and death and illness.
546
Now I say, but I know his heart.
547
I know he actually is good.
548
He's love.
549
It's hard, but I think theology really informs spirituality in an important way.
550
If you know that's God's nature.
551
When Aquinas says, can God sin?
552
And the objection is, well, yeah, heck, if I can sin, I'm free, and God's God, and he's totally free.
553
Of course, God could sin.
554
He doesn't, but he could.
555
And Aquinas goes, no, God can't sin.
556
It would be repugnant to his nature.
557
It would be like saying God can make a square circle.
558
So he can't sin.
559
He can't will something evil for me.
560
So whatever is happening to me under that aegis of the permissive or active will, God's about the work of love in my life.
561
Now, if I can move into that space, you know, and in prayer say not, I'm angry at you, but,
562
all right, Lord, help me understand what is happening in my life right now.
563
I want to cooperate with you.
564
Right.
565
Even in a situation where I don't want this to be the case.
566
Right.
567
Kind of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.
568
Like, I don't want this to be the case.
569
Let this cup pass from me.
570
Yeah.
571
But I'm willing to—I want to will what you will, and I do will what you will.
572
You know, here's something in Aquinas I've always loved, because let's go back to Jeremiah, and it's in the Bible, it's in all of us,
573
when we say, like, oh, I'm trying to be a good person, what do I get?
574
I got nothing.
575
And here's this jerk over there, who's a terrible life, and he's got a big house, and everything's going great.
576
And Thomas says, yeah, but that's looking in a purely worldly way, that maybe God is punishing him with that big house,
577
because that big house is not good for him, and that big house is leading him down a bad path.
578
It's actually God's way of punishing him.
579
And that you're not getting the big house or the raise or whatever it is or the fame, that's purifying you.
580
That's God expressing his love for you.
581
So we have to change our attitude.
582
There's a worldly vision.
583
Whoever gets more wealth, plusher, power, honor, they're really doing well.
584
Don't play that game.
585
God wants you to become his friend.
586
That's what God wants.
587
And even in some ways, sparing you.
588
Yes.
589
Because he knows me well enough.
590
Yes, that if you got, or I got the wealth and the power, that it wouldn't be good.
591
It would actually lead me down a bad path.
592
So Aquinas says, that could be the devil giving you those things.
593
Well, I remember a man, he taught moral theology at St. Thomas and St. Paul Seminary in St. Paul.
594
And at one point, I asked him his vocation, sorry, he was a married man, father of a bunch of kids.
595
And he said, you know, I discerned seminary before I got married and everything.
596
And he said, and I looked at the life of a priest and I thought, that is my ideal, my dream.
597
But he said, but I prayed about it for a long time.
598
He was discernment.
599
And he said, I realized, though, that the potential for me to,
600
for the life of a priest to cater to all of my worst inclinations and temptations.
601
He said, I would be the priest who, like, hey, it's four o 'clock, turn off the light, lock in the door.
602
Like, I'm now going to go and live for me.
603
And he says, I realized that God couldn't, wasn't calling me to that life because he was calling me to a life
604
that would actually purify me of my self -love.
605
And of my, where I walk home, I come home from work and my kids are there and they don't care how hard I worked yet.
606
That's right.
607
They're like, Dad, we need you now for this thing.
608
But that was a much more spiritually demanding life.
609
Yeah.
610
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So is...
611
Christmas, if joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian, does Christmas or does
612
Christianity, does it declare joy or does it bring joy?
613
Well, I would say this, see, Christmas now.
614
So we've been talking about our hunger for God and all that.
615
But see, the real story of the Bible, especially of Christianity, is not our quest for God, but God's quest for us.
616
God's after us, right?
617
And so he comes as a baby to lure us because we're distracted by all these things.
618
But, like, you know the experience when you're at a party or something and someone brings in a baby, right?
619
The baby's here.
620
Everyone comes over.
621
Everyone's attracted, right, to look at the baby.
622
I always think of that as how God has sent prophets
623
and he sent the Torah and he sent the temple on us.
624
And Israel falls away.
625
So he finally comes as this irresistible baby.
626
It's God's entry into our human condition and project and all that.
627
Because he wants us to find him.
628
I think we all get caught up in this illusion
629
that God's kind of distant and he's playing games and he's kind of this Promethean idea.
630
That if I climb the mountain, I steal fire, he's gonna get mad.
631
That's completely repugnant to the Bible.
632
The Bible is all about God wants us into his life and be his friends.
633
And so Christmas is that.
634
God has climbed right into the midst of our humanity and then is trying to draw us to—again, that's Chesterton, isn't it?
635
Is that we actually look down into the face of God.
636
That's Christianity, right?
637
It's all the religious.
638
I'm going to look up toward the transcendent mystery.
639
Fine, he is the transcendent mystery.
640
But now I look down into the face of a baby and I say, well, that's how God has found me.
641
That's why it's a source of joy, I think, Christmas.
642
But I love that image of the baby at the party.
643
Yeah, everyone's distracted with the baby.
644
Or even into a couple's life.
645
It's this necessary and often joyful reorientation of everything we are.
646
Yeah.
647
So here's a couple, and they're living for each other, maybe, hopefully, for themselves a lot.
648
And then the introduction of a child is now— Revolution.
649
Everything is now— It's the Copernican revolution.
650
Touched by this new life.
651
And here's Christianity.
652
Here's Christmas.
653
We're doing our thing.
654
And then here comes the Lord.
655
And it reorients, touches every part of our lives.
656
And he demands that either we say, no, I'm going to ignore the baby.
657
Yeah.
658
Or put the baby like it's one of the things we do.
659
Well, and of course, you know, so yes, the baby attracts.
660
We look down on the face of Christ but also they tried to kill him right away.
661
So that's why I love the Bible is so honest and so clear.
662
It's not sentimental that right away, Herod and all Jerusalem tremble because this baby's coming.
663
Who is this baby?
664
The king?
665
What are you talking about?
666
And then once he finds out, I'm going to kill that baby.
667
Man, there's one of the best expressions of human sinfulness.
668
God becomes one of them.
669
God becomes an innocent, vulnerable baby, and my move is to kill him.
670
Right.
671
But see, there's sin, you know?
672
And so from the beginning, the baby entranced the human race, and the baby is opposed, which comes to its full expression on the cross, right?
673
So, yeah, all of that drama of I want beatitude, but when beatitude shows up as a baby, I want to kill him, right?
674
Because it demands something.
675
That's how messed up we are.
676
Well, and even I think of John 11, where Jesus raises Lazarus.
677
And it says there's these two kind of responses to Jesus raising this man from the dead.
678
It's many of those who came to Martha and Mary about their brother began to believe in him.
679
And then a couple of verses later, others tried to kill him.
680
As a result of first his presence in our world in the incarnation
681
and then him revealing who he really is in John 11.
682
Yeah, yeah.
683
These are our responses.
684
No, and there's the great mystery.
685
The mysterium indiquitatis, as they say the mystery of evil.
686
Like, why are we resistant to the one thing that will make us happy?
687
That's the drama.
688
And I think much of the drama in our literature and art is traceable to that.
689
It's the one thing we want, we resist it.
690
And it's a tragedy.
691
But see, God in the incarnation tries to run around our resistance.
692
And that's why, you see, the cross, like Balthazar's language, he goes to the limits of God -forsakenness.
693
God goes into God -forsakenness.
694
He goes into the worst of our humanity so that when we're running away from the Father, we're running into the arms of the Son.
695
That was his attempt to save us, right?
696
Now, again, we can still resist that.
697
That's the mystery of hell, is that even this...
698
This acrobatic act of love on God's part, the incarnation, the cross, even that can be resisted.
699
Now, there's the mystery of the Nebuchadnezzar to the ultimate degree.
700
But it's like surrender to him.
701
He's done everything he possibly can to save us, to give us the one thing we want.
702
So how about try surrendering to him?
703
I think it's fascinating that, you know, when we began speaking about joy, one of the first things you brought up was the cross.
704
Yeah.
705
And I think a lot of times where come to the Lord and know joy, we might separate it from the cross.
706
We say the joy of the resurrection, which is great, which is real, the joy of life in the Holy Spirit, which is real.
707
But at the same time, to recognize that you said, here's Jesus on the cross.
708
That is a happy man.
709
Yeah, absolutely.
710
And it goes so powerfully against not only, I think, what we might common sense approach,
711
but also what I don't want that.
712
Like, I might trade that in for I just want to be happy.
713
Like, I just, I don't need extremes.
714
Like, I don't need the pinnacle of joy.
715
I just, I want to be okay.
716
And there's something right in that.
717
I think we're like a saint has found a kind of equilibrium in the surrender to God's will.
718
And knowing it'll involve the ups and downs of, again, think of our friend
719
Mother Teresa, you know, that we discovered really after she died.
720
We didn't know the depth of the darkness she was experiencing.
721
But to me, it just made her more beautiful and more powerful as a saintly figure because she found the center, no question about that.
722
She experienced great highs of ecstasy, and she heard, literally, heard the voice of Jesus speaking to her.
723
And then for 50 years, she didn't, and she felt darkness.
724
Okay, but she had found this center, this equilibrium.
725
That's her holiness, right?
726
The good feelings and all that came and went, but she stayed on beam of the true source of joy.
727
It's hard stuff, though.
728
That's hard stuff in the spiritual order.
729
And it seems like, like you said, it goes back to seek first the kingdom of God.
730
Seek first God himself.
731
Right.
732
Is it I want the gift of God or I want the giver?
733
Right.
734
And I think maybe it's the last time you and I talked, we both hit upon that famous distinction.
735
Do I love the benefits of God, Or do I love the will of God?
736
And see, a lot hinges on that.
737
And God will sometimes give you a lot of benefits in the beginning of the spiritual to kind of draw
738
you into friendship.
739
And people full of consolations, and I love prayer, I love the Mass.
740
Great, great.
741
But see, he will also take those things away from you because you're not meant to fall in love with his benefits.
742
So I love God as long as things are going great for me.
743
As long as I have Celine Dion and nice hikes and friendship and I'm in good health.
744
Okay, great.
745
But he wants you to fall in love with him and his will, not his benefits, right?
746
And that's tough stuff.
747
That's high -octane.
748
But it's real love as opposed to kind of a mercenary love or that kind of sense of God.
749
You get my heart so long as transactional.
750
I'll love you that I might get something from you.
751
Circumstantial.
752
Yeah, and that's the great saints now all come to that moment.
753
And so God wants more for us than we want because I want to be okay.
754
I want to be okay.
755
But God's like, no, I want more for you than, okay, I want joy.
756
He wants you divinized.
757
The goal of the Christian life is not being a morally upright person.
758
That's great.
759
I'm all in favor of it.
760
It's not to be a guy that gets along with everybody.
761
The goal of the spiritual life is to be divinized.
762
Deus fit homo and homo fiorit Deus, the Church of the Fathers always said.
763
God became man that man might become God.
764
But that's serious stuff.
765
I mean, God becomes one of us
766
that our nature might be elevated to participation in his nature is the way you say it more exactly.
767
Man.
768
It's not just marginally more ethical or marginally more kind to people.
769
A new person.
770
You're meant to become a new creation, not just a nice guy.
771
That's why, you know, Flannery and Connors think about being a Christian does not mean just having a heart of gold.
772
Yeah.
773
That's what most people think.
774
Oh, he's a Christian.
775
Got a heart of gold.
776
No, it means you're a new creation, right?
777
and now that expresses itself ethically in certain clear ways but
778
it's a much more serious game that we're playing so in this looking at joy
779
is I'm going to say is it this or that because my guess would be you might say both but
780
is joy clearly joy is a fruit of the spirit
781
So we know joy is a fruit of the Spirit.
782
Is it also a virtue?
783
Well, it's a very interesting question, because, you know, again, we're
784
Catholics, and so we like the both and.
785
Yeah, exactly.
786
In fact, I'm going to preach on it tonight a bit, because the gospel for tonight is new wine, new wineskins, right?
787
And that whole idea of as grace rushes in, you know, gratia saponit naturam, right?
788
Grace supposes nature and elevates nature,
789
so that nature should be strong enough to kind of receive and elastic enough to receive the new life of grace, right?
790
So Aristotle, I remember learning this in Philosophy 101, what's happiness?
791
And he says the one thing everybody wants, right?
792
What is it?
793
He says activity of soul in accord with perfect virtue.
794
So what's distinctive to us, he said, well, it's our souls.
795
Animals seek happiness and sensual pleasure and all this stuff.
796
But we have a higher thing.
797
And so what's the highest activity of our highest faculty?
798
It would be the moral life.
799
The moral life is led in accord with virtue.
800
When you avoid the extremes, this and that, the medium, so now courage and prudence and temperance and justice, that's happiness for Aristotle.
801
Okay, Thomas agrees with that.
802
Yeah.
803
That's natural happiness, you might say.
804
Is that eudaimonia?
805
Yeah, eudaimonia, he would have said.
806
Having a happy demon in you, like having a happy— So it's doing good more than feeling good.
807
Would that be accurate?
808
Yeah, because he would have made that distinction for sure.
809
Aristotle knew that too, that it wasn't just a matter of, hey, I've got a lot of money, so I feel good.
810
He thought it was a moral act.
811
Okay, and Aquinas would say, yes, and.
812
He would say, there's the wineskins that are now ready to receive what he calls supernatural justice,
813
supernatural prudence, supernatural and so on.
814
And then the fruits of the Holy Spirit, and then the theological virtues.
815
So you're like pouring all this new wine, but into the ample and elastic wineskins of the natural of Eudaimonia.
816
So that would be my elaborate way of saying both and, right?
817
So I'm going to urge people tonight, in fact, in light of that gospel image, you know, Now, if you're kind of feeling lost spiritually,
818
I don't know, what's in there?
819
One way is, well, work like on the Ten Commandments in your life and work on the basic.
820
Like, you know, when the Lord says to the rich young man, you know, I want eternal life.
821
Well, you know the commandments.
822
Yeah, I've done these.
823
Well, the commandments are—Thomas says they're the first principle of the natural law, the Ten Commandments.
824
So, yeah, try to be a decent, virtuous person.
825
But then, okay, and I've done all that for my youth.
826
All right, now you're ready.
827
See for the new wine.
828
But he wasn't, see which tells me he wasn't really following the king.
829
He said he was, but he went away sad because he couldn't take in the new wine.
830
That, to me, would be a biblically -based
831
Catholic both -and proposition.
832
Get Aristotle and Aquinas in the same picture.
833
Good, good.
834
This was a gift and a virtue.
835
Yeah.
836
It's not something we receive, but also something we have to exercise.
837
Yeah, I think—look, I mean, God is God.
838
He can do whatever he wants.
839
God can remake me from the ground up.
840
But it seems to be his preferred method, that there's a kind of scaffolding in place that comes from nature.
841
So, gratia saponit naturam, it rests upon nature.
842
And then Thomas says, at perficit am, it perfects it.
843
It's beautiful.
844
So, we don't have to destroy nature to get grace.
845
Grace elevates and it perfects nature.
846
There's the burning bush, right?
847
Right.
848
The bush is on fire but not consumed.
849
So your natural virtues now become more radiant and more beautiful when grace invades them.
850
And the fact that we're made in this, our nature, made in God's image, is oriented towards these good things.
851
It's oriented towards this.
852
So when I, by God's grace, here's a fruit of the Spirit, I can live this way, but I have to exercise this.
853
It's not contrary to how we're created to live like this.
854
It builds upon that.
855
So the joy that is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, that is a gift, right?
856
It's like faith, hope, and charity.
857
Charity in that full sense is a gift of the Holy Spirit.
858
I can't really practice my way to charity.
859
I receive it.
860
But I can prepare.
861
Since grace builds on nature, I can prepare with the natural virtues to receive it.
862
That seems to be God's way.
863
He likes to operate that way.
864
The movement from small to big seems to be part of God's providence.
865
Right, mustard seed becomes a big tree.
866
That principle, or give me the five little loaves of the fish,
867
and from that, yeah, that's a good image actually for it because what do you have?
868
Yeah.
869
What do you have?
870
Well, we got this.
871
What's this to feed so many?
872
Give it to me.
873
I'll elevate it and multiply it for the feeding of the world.
874
But he loves to get us involved.
875
It's like, what do you have?
876
Well, I got some of these natural virtues.
877
Like, yeah, good.
878
Give them to me.
879
Give him to me, and I will turn you into a saint.
880
But he likes building on nature, I think.
881
So that's so good, because I think that leads us into this last question.
882
And I think this will be online right before Advent starts.
883
And so here, as people are invited into, here's this season of joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas.
884
What is a thing that would kind of pave that way?
885
You say, okay, as you enter into the season of Advent,
886
what is something we can do to prepare our hearts for this joy that God's made us for, this beatitude that God has made us for?
887
You know, I go back to what we said earlier about distractions and diversions and all that, is try to identify those.
888
What is it that's distracting me all the time?
889
What am I preoccupied with?
890
And to try to name it, see it, and to set that aside.
891
and also to awaken your sense of anticipation.
892
Lord, I know these things don't satisfy me.
893
I know they don't.
894
I've tried over and over again.
895
I was thinking of every single
896
Billy Graham sermon at the same basic structure, which was, I know you've tried this, you've tried this, you've tried that.
897
They haven't worked, have they?
898
I got what will work.
899
Every sermon you ever gave me has that basic structure.
900
Good.
901
That's gospel stuff you know uh identify the divertissement identify the distraction the diversion
902
what's what's drawn you down bad paths all right now lord i'm going to set that aside
903
come come lord jesus right so
904
so the first step might actually make you a little bit sad yeah you know
905
because the diversion is not there and i might have to and enter it like truly as as the church says,
906
enter into a desert with joy.
907
Yes.
908
I don't know if you find this.
909
I've been a priest for 40 years now and a bishop for, I don't know, how many years? But every Advent, every
910
Lent, I start moving to the same place.
911
All right, Lord, I'm still—it's like Merton's prayer.
912
I have no idea where I'm going.
913
I still—I'm still lost.
914
I'm still diverted.
915
I'm still seeking the wrong stuff.
916
And not that it's hopeless.
917
but it's coming back to that moment
918
and admitting again you're a sinner go back to the beginning go back to the fundamentals of the spiritual life
919
that's a good exercise and it's what we need
920
in order to set ourselves up to receive the joy
921
that God wants for us it's why the church brings us back to
922
that moment again and again alright let's try it again praise God for that
923
praise God for this conversation thank you so much for taking the time again
924
And I'm so, so grateful.
925
Once again, if you're interested in this series over the course of Advent called Joy to the World,
926
you can get the Ascension app or go to ascensionpress .com slash Fr.
927
Mike Advent.
928
I wish you, Barron, thank you so much.
929
Thank you for the work you do in the church and for just the man you are in this world.
930
Well, thank you.
931
It was my joy to be with you, Mike.
932
Thanks.
933
Thanks, Mike.
934
God bless.
935
Thank you.
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Vocabulary and speaking notes for this lesson
This speaking lesson is built on the video “The Difference Between Happiness and Joy Explained”. This video has 935 sentences and 8942 words to shadow. The speech runs for 48:33. The speaker talks fast, about 184 words per minute, so expect linked and reduced sounds. 85% of the words are among the 3,000 most common in English; the rest is worth studying before you start.
Key vocabulary in this video
15 words from the video worth learning, with pronunciation and meaning:
| Word | Pronunciation | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| advent verb | /ˈæd.vɛnt/ | To arrive or begin, especially at the first coming or appearance of something. |
| happiness noun | /ˈhæpinɪs/ | The emotion of being happy; joy; elation. |
| spiritual adjective | /ˈspɪɹɪt͡ʃuəl/ | Of or pertaining to the spirit or the soul. |
| moral adjective | /ˈmoɹəl/ | Of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behaviour, especially conforming to principles of rectitude. |
| virtue noun | /ˈvɝt͡ʃu/ | The idea of all that is good or excellent (in every sense of those terms) in a human being, collectively instantiated by a varying number of human traits known… |
| diversion noun | /dɪˈvɝ.ʒən/ | A tactic used to draw attention away from the real threat or action. |
| preparation noun | /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/ | The act of preparing or getting ready. |
| mystery noun | /ˈmɪs.t(ə.)ɹi/ | Something secret or unexplainable; an unknown. |
| gravity noun | /ˈɡɹævɪti/ | Of an activity such as a ceremony, a person's conduct, etc.: the quality of being deeply serious and solemn, especially in a dignified manner; seriousness… |
| gospel noun | /ˈɡɑspəl/ | The first section of the Christian New Testament scripture, comprising the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, concerned with the birth, ministry, passion… |
| theology noun | /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/ | The study of God, a god, or gods; and of the truthfulness of religion in general. |
| strip verb | /ˈstɹɪp/ | To remove or take away, often in strips or stripes. |
| celebration noun | /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/ | The formal performance of a solemn rite, such as Christian sacrament. |
| punish verb | /ˈpʌnɪʃ/ | To cause (a child, student, or someone else being looked after, or a suspect or criminal) to suffer for crime or misconduct, to administer disciplinary action… |
| distract verb | /dɪˈstɹækt/ | To divert the attention of. |
Phrasal verbs you will hear
| Word | Pronunciation | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| go back to verb | To stem from; to originate in. | |
| come across verb | To change sides; to cross over to work for the opposition. | |
| go through verb | To travel from one end of something to the other. | |
| bring up verb | To mention. | |
| come out in verb | to be afflicted by (a visible disruption of the body) | |
| come over verb | To affect in a sudden, unprecedented or surprising manner; to overwhelm a person's ordinarily contrary impulse. | |
| come together verb | /ˈkʌm tʊˈɡɛðɚ/ | To assemble; to congregate; to combine. |
| fall away verb | To cease to support a person or cause. |
Sentences worth repeating
Short, complete lines from the video that you can reuse in everyday conversation:
- What is this elusive thing that we all want?
- What are you looking for?
- I don't know, what's in there?
- It's like, what do you have?
- What is it that's distracting me all the time?
Grammar in this video
The structures the speaker uses most, with the exact words from the video:
| Structure | In the video |
|---|---|
| Present perfect continuous have/has been + -ing — an action that started earlier and is still going on | I've been teaching · you've been seeking · you've been exercising |
| Conditional sentences if + clause, will/would + verb — a condition and its result | if you get wealth, you'll know · If you get pleasure, you'll know |
| Present perfect have/has + past participle — a past action that still matters now | it's been · have come · we've heard |
| Passive voice be + past participle — the focus is on what happens, not who does it | is described · will be given · was asked |
Pronunciation to watch
The speaker uses 229 contractions and reduced forms, such as I'm, don't, we're. Say them the short way, as you hear them.
- The “th” sounds: theology /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/, wealthy /ˈwɛl.θi/, authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/
- The “sh” and “zh” sounds: diversion /dɪˈvɝ.ʒən/, preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/, celebration /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/, punish /ˈpʌnɪʃ/, bishop /ˈbɪʃəp/
- Long words — get the stress right: preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/, theology /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/, celebration /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/, supernatural /ˌsu.pəɹˈnæ.tʃə.ɹəl/, equilibrium /ɛkwɪˈlɪbɹɪəm/
How to practise with this video
- Listen to the whole video once without speaking and note the words you do not know.
- Start at 0.75× speed, shadow it sentence by sentence, then go back to normal speed once it feels easy.
- Record yourself and compare with the original, paying attention to words like advent, happiness, spiritual.
What is the Shadowing Technique?
Shadowing is a science-backed language learning technique originally developed for professional interpreter training and popularized by polyglot Dr. Alexander Arguelles. The method is simple but powerful: you listen to native English audio and immediately repeat it out loud — like a shadow following the speaker with just a 1–2 second delay. Unlike passive listening or grammar drills, shadowing forces your brain and mouth muscles to simultaneously process and reproduce real speech patterns. Research shows it significantly improves pronunciation accuracy, intonation, rhythm, connected speech, listening comprehension, and speaking fluency — making it one of the most effective methods for IELTS Speaking preparation and real-world English communication.