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If Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas, what is that?

Here's Jesus who says, I came that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.

What is he making complete?

Okay, what is it?

And then how do you find it?

Yeah.

So that's, you might say, is the central question of the Christian life.

Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz.

In this series, we're talking with three special guests about the spiritual discipline of

Christian joy in preparation for the Advent series in the Ascension app, Joy to the World.

And I'm releasing a new video on the Ascension app every day during

Advent with reflection on what it means to be joyful.

If you'd like to see more, be sure to download the Ascension app from the App Store on your smartphone or tablet,

or you can visit ascensionpress .com slash fathermikeadvent.

Today, first of our conversation, I'm joined by Bishop Robert Barron, Bishop of the Diocese of Rochester and Winona in the great state of Minnesota,

also the founder of Word on Fire and the host of Catholicism Project, which how many years ago was Catholicism?

It came out in 2011.

That's incredible.

Yeah, 15 years it's been.

And it's made such an impact in the world.

Yeah, thank God.

I mean, as has

Word on Fire, as an entire company, it just brought the gospel to so many people.

Appreciate that a lot.

We just had our 25th anniversary.

We started really about the year 2000.

So last year we had our 25th anniversary.

Based out of Chicago.

Yeah, started in Chicago.

And it's just on WGN radio at 5 .15 on Sunday morning.

I asked them, you know, how much would it cost to get a radio show?

And they said about $50 ,000.

And so I raised that money for my parish, and that's how we started.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it's become this.

Yeah, thank God.

And so many people have come to know the gospel.

And, you know, so I'm reflecting on this, reflecting on the fact that, you know, Pope Francis had talked about the joy of the gospel.

And here we are in preparation for Advent.

I came across something that said that

Advent is described to Advent like this is that

Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas.

And one of the things that it did for me is that it kind of reminded me that,

you know, as Christians, we're not waiting for Christmas to be joyful.

Like, note that if Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for a celebration of Christmas,

then joy gets to be part—joy is part of the process.

Yeah, and also liturgically, we've heard to Lent as a joyful season.

Really?

This joyful season of penitence.

Yeah.

Which is a clue.

See, that joy, as we're describing it today, doesn't have really to do with happy, clappy feelings, right?

It's something else.

It's something deeper, more abiding.

So that's interesting how the prayer of the church signals this difference.

Kind of forms this for us.

And so that's actually one of my first questions is, if Advent is the joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas, what is that?

What is joy?

Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting question.

And it's so central to our tradition.

Yeah, we use the word all the time.

Right.

And the fact that Aquinas structures his whole moral theology not around law, I find it really interesting.

If you look at the second part of the Summa where he talks about the moral life, right?

Question 90, 9 -0, question 90 is when he first broaches the law.

A lot of people say, well, morality is all about law, isn't it?

But the first question he raises is about the Attitude, happiness, the one thing we all want.

And then he explores what it isn't.

It's not this, not this, not this, not that.

It must be this, right?

And then from that starting point, you develop your moral theology.

This guy, Father Cervé Pincares, who was a great

Dominican moral theologian, he rediscovered that for our time.

This great book called The Sources of Catholic Ethics, I think, to my mind, the best book about moral theology since the Council.

He was very influential on John Paul II.

But he insisted upon that.

You don't start moral theology with the law.

You start it with happiness.

What do we want?

What is this elusive thing that we all want?

And once you identify it, now you know how to structure your life.

Like, what are you looking for?

What is it?

What are you looking for?

Well, we're all looking for happiness.

Everybody, from the saint to the worst sinner, is all looking for happiness.

Okay, what is it?

And then how do you find it?

So that's, you might say, is the central question of the Christian life.

Well, when you say that he goes through, Thomas Aquinas goes through, here's what it's not.

Right.

So what is that for us?

Because we can conflate happiness and joy, but also we can say, like, well, I want that, whatever that is.

But we pursue happiness or pursue joy, beatitude, we think, but we're pursuing the wrong thing.

What is it not?

Yeah, well, I find that text super clarifying.

I've been teaching on it for years, where Thomas says, Wealth, pleasure, honor, and power are the four things that we typically seek.

We think, that'll make me happy, right?

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And talk to most people.

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What do you want?

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You say to a young person in college, well, I want to be wealthy if I can.

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I can be powerful.

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I want to be famous.

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Wasn't there a survey a couple years ago talking to young people?

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What they most wanted, it wasn't wealth so much, or power.

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It was to be famous on the Internet, right?

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That I'm an influencer.

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Well, famous for what?

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I don't really care.

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It's fun to be famous.

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It doesn't matter, yeah.

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So wealth, pleasure, power, honor.

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Pleasure.

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Look, just give me enough pleasure of the senses or of sex or of booze or drugs or whatever it is.

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I'll be happy.

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Now, see, what happens, and Aquinas saw this, we're wired for God.

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That's what we really want, right?

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The heart's restless to the rest of God.

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So we really want God.

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So anything less than God will leave us empty and dissatisfied and eventually addicted because I'm going to keep wanting it,

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wanting it, wanting it, wanting it, and it won't satisfy me.

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I'll get more and more frustrated.

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And like Chesterton says, I'll be like this little train just circling obsessively around, right?

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Yeah.

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That's the problem.

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See, Aquinas saw that very clearly.

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And you know this.

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I mean, pastorally, a lot of our work is that, is helping people see, you know, you've tried this path, that's not it.

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I remember dealing, when I was in the parish, with, you know, this middle -aged guy, 45 or 50.

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And the opening line, he said to me, was, Father, all my dreams have come true, and I'm miserable.

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Really?

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Yeah, and it was beautiful, self -diagnosis.

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Right, exactly.

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Like, all my dreams, I've attained everything I ever wanted, and I'm miserable.

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In other words, I didn't find beatitudo, right?

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And so then I tried to kind of, okay, well, this is why.

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You're not meant for those things.

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But see, getting clarity on that is so important.

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And authentic joy or happiness, whatever you want to call it, authentic beatitudo has to do with that.

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Right.

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It's the right orientation of your life.

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So it doesn't involve power, pleasure, fame, or...

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Well, here's the trick.

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See, it's very interesting.

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The trick is, once I am rightly aligned toward the will of God, that's what I want.

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Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and the rest will be given to you.

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Meaning, I think, then if you get wealth, you'll know what to do with it, and it won't wreck you.

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If you get pleasure, you'll know how to handle it, and it won't wreck you.

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If you get honored—so Thomas says honor is the flag of virtue.

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It's a cool description.

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It's a way of saying, hey, look at that guy.

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Look at her.

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She's really good.

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Honor is just the flag.

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Don't get addicted to the stupid flag.

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Oh, I want more flags, more flags. So stupid.

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That's honor.

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If I'm rightly aligned, then I can handle wealth, pleasure, power, honor.

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In fact, I can use them for God's purposes.

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That's the trick.

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But see, what happens is everyone gets addicted to these lesser goods, and they turn on you.

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See, they'll devour you.

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Anyone involved in pastoral ministry, we all know that, right?

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People get devoured by their addictions.

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It's for freedom that

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Christ has set you free, says Paul, to be free from those addictions.

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And now I'm ordered to God, and now I'm free to live the way God wants me to, and I can use whatever comes my way.

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Those things or anything else, like even sickness, even suffering, right?

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I know how to use it for the sake of God's purpose.

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Well, so then, and then, so I really appreciate that because we, like you said, we look for happiness,

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we look for joy in all those places.

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But if we're saying, okay, but here's what we're really made for.

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Yeah.

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And not just in the sense of we're made for the Lord.

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I mean, St. Augustine talks about this, our hearts are restless until they rest in you, oh Lord.

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Yeah.

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But there's that, what's promised there is a place of rest.

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Is that what joy is?

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Is joy a place of, is it peace? is joy, ecstasy, is joy, happiness.

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Yeah.

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Well, there's a couple ways to look at it.

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I love the word, you know, shalom, which runs through the Bible.

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And of course, the risen Jesus, that's what he says to his disciples, shalom.

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Peace is a good way to name it.

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Because peace is not the same as, again, happy, clappy feelings or feeling good.

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And again, I'm not against feeling good.

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You know, I'm a Catholic.

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I'm not playing either or games.

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Feeling good is great.

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Like the other a night, I get here in Nashville, and I had this filet mignon, and it was just great.

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And I mean, the filet mignon, that's a great sensual pleasure.

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Nothing in the world wrong with that.

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Wherever the Catholic sun does shine, there's music and laughter and good red wine.

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Great.

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But that's not the same as Beatitudo.

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That's a good thing.

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It's a blessing.

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But Beatitudo is something stranger and rarer and deeper.

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And Shalom kind of names it at peace, at the depth of your life.

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Only in God is my soul at rest.

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And the rest thing is interesting.

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It doesn't mean like I'm in a hammock.

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I'm just resting.

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It means something like savoring, I think.

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So like Aquinas says, there are two moves of the will, to seek the absent good, but then to savor the present good.

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It's like right now, there's something good, our conversation.

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We're both resting in it.

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You know, we're just, all right, I'm savoring this moment.

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Good, good.

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What God wants for all of us is to savor him, ultimately, to rest in him.

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So when someone's dying, we say, you know, may he rest in peace.

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It doesn't mean may he be in a hammock for all eternity.

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Take a nap.

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Right, take a nap.

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It means savor now the good that you've been seeking, and now you're in the presence of it.

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That's getting closer to beatitudo, joy, shalom, peace.

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That's what it's about.

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Now, at least in this life, good feeling and shalom don't always come together.

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Right.

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The hope is, this is heaven.

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The hope is, yes, that those will come together in this perfect harmony.

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Here below, shoot for shalom, shoot for beatitudo, and then you'll know what to do with good feeling and bad feeling.

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It's part of that.

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I've heard you say before, and it actually reframed a lot of the ways that I look at the first commandment about having no other gods.

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And I thought, okay, we've gots first.

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But you had framed it in such a way, I don't know if you do it regularly or if it's something I came across,

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and I was like, oh, my gosh, this has revolutionized how I approach it.

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But that sense of, is God the spiritual center of gravity in my life?

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That sense of, is he not just first in a line of things that are important, but he's the spiritual central.

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And it seems like that kind of joy would be this, I'm abiding in that place where the spiritual center of gravity is the center,

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as opposed to like wobbly.

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Yes.

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And see, now I'll go back to people like Ignacio Viola.

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If I'm detached from the finite goods of the world, he can say, whether I have a long life or short life, I don't care.

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Whether I'm famous or not, I don't care.

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Whether I'm wealthy or poor, whether I'm healthy or sick.

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So that's in this life, I'm living in the center,

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and I can look at my ever -changing fortunes with a kind of detachment because I'm seeking first the will of God.

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That's what I want.

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And in light of that desire, I can situate and organize all the other interests, happenings, events of my life um

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that's the in some ways the central challenge of the spiritual life

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i think how do i handle everything

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now in light of this i like the center of gravity language that's that's right

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or like the sun around which the planets revolve so

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because we there's a sun in all of our lives there's something some great center of gravity around

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which things revolve what happens to us sinners a lot is God becomes like a little planet that's revolving around.

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Usually, it's my own ego.

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It's the center of gravity.

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And so, wealth, pleasure, power, honor, God.

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And they're all kind of revolving around.

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Metanoia, conversion means, yeah, I'm changing that.

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I'm rearranging that.

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God is the...

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So, my life is not about me.

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That phrase I always liked, your life is not about this copernican revolution right in a way that's just like no here's god

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and that's the center metanoia is a copernican revolution in your spiritual life

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which is why it's so darn hard yeah that's why we resisted we sinners

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because look my life's kind of in order i know i'm kind of unhappy a lot

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but at least it's in order you know i always think of it it's a cure of ours

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when he was asked what have you learned about human beings after all these years of hearing

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you know thousands of confessions he said that people are much sadder than they seem which strikes me as dead right.

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Most of us play kind of a game with ourselves and with each other about, oh, I'm doing fine.

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But most of us are sadder than we seem because the spiritual equilibrium is off, and we don't have God in the center of our lives.

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And the joyful person, the way you're pursuing it correctly, is that person that's made that Copernican revolution.

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Wow, I need to sit with what

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St. John Gandy said.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah because it resonates in so many ways

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and it's and it's not even necessarily just

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that people are putting on a face as much as it is where i'm distracting myself right um

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and so even as we enter into like you know advent into christmas there's

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that that sense of i'm i'm i'm happier why well

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because i'm full of distractions i'm feeling my life with nostalgia i'm feeling my life with things

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that are memories of other times

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when i was happy as opposed to entering into silence that

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that season of advent being an opportunity where it's i can listen that's dead right

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because that's pascal isn't it right

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that most of our lives are he called them divertissement diversions i divert myself with

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and in his case was gambling he was a gambler

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so he played the great pascal one of the great minds of the western world

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but he spent hours and hours at gambling tables right at least he got

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that one analogy out of it the wager yeah yeah that's right no that's

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Right, the Pascal's Wager is born from that thing.

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But most of us sinners,

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he said, spend most of our lives distracting ourselves from the central question of conversion and metanoia, following Christ.

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We divert ourselves, and then we convince ourselves, well, I guess I'm doing okay.

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I'm kind of basically happy.

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He says, put down the diversions.

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And actually, Advent and Lent, both, are great seasons for that.

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Naming, what are my diversions?

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We all have them.

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We all have them.

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Name them and set them aside.

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Like one thing I did was it was last, no, two years ago for the first time.

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I said during

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Lent, one day I'm putting the phone away.

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I'm going to put it in a drawer.

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And I made it.

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The whole day.

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Yeah.

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And I made a deal with my assistant.

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I said, if she had to reach me for some reason, we had a way to do it.

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But I just said, no, no, it's going to go in a drawer.

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And I'll look at it again the end of the day, but the entire day.

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And, you know, it was hard, but, man, it was liberating.

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Yeah, I bet.

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Because those stupid machines, they're a classic divertissement.

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They're a great diversion.

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They've been made that way.

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You refresh, you refresh, and it's like gambling.

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It's like the one -armed bandit.

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They're designed to be addictive, and they work.

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Like everyone, I'm addicted to it.

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So you have to set it aside.

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But name what your diversion is, and then try to at least set that aside.

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Which is funny, because we think about diversions, that's what makes me happy.

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What do you do to make you happy?

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Well, I play this, I do that, I do these other things.

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And so there's a connection, but at the same time, it's a false promise, right?

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Yeah.

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And here's Jesus who says, what is his promise?

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He says, I came that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.

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And that sense of what is he making complete?

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What is that thing?

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He's making following the will of God because our joy now in this real sense, whatever term you want to use,

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I'll say beatitudo, is to follow the will of God, is to align your will to the will of God.

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God is love.

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To love is to will the good of the other.

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So when our wills are aligned to God's will and purpose, that's what we do.

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That's what we look like, right?

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That's what Aquinas can say.

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It's such a weird but wonderful observation.

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If you want to see a happy man, look at Jesus on the cross.

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Now, why?

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Because he said, well, you need to love what he loved on the cross and despise what he despised on the cross.

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What do you despise?

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Wealth, pleasure, power, honor, right?

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All the things.

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There he is, stripped of all those things.

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None of them.

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He's utterly detached, which is why he becomes on the cross the great peacemaker.

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He's the single -hearted.

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He's hungry and thirsting for righteousness.

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Now go back to the Beatitudes.

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Again, that's Aquinas.

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You want to see the Beatitudes in action.

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It's the cross of Jesus.

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So that's, again, the weird thing.

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Who's a happy person?

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And we say, oh, well, this guy looks happy.

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Yeah, he's the happiest person you know.

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Point to the cross.

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Yeah.

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And, again, it's weird because it's not a place of good feelings, certainly.

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He's stripped of good feelings.

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But there's an image of a happy person.

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All the weirdness and wonder of Christianity is in that coin.

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It is weird and wonderful.

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Yeah.

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But that sense of like, it would involve a redefinition of what we're offering.

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Right.

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It's like, come to know Jesus and experience joy.

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Yeah.

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But someone says, well, that means I'm going to feel a certain way.

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And we would say it might.

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It might, yeah.

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But it's not a feeling thing.

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And again, feelings aren't bad.

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I think of like when I was in California as a bishop, one of my favorite things, if I found the time,

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toward the end of the day, I'd go for a hike up in the mountains right near my house.

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And it was really tough.

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It was a tough climb up.

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I got to the top, and then I would pray in my evening office sitting on this fence post overlooking the city of Santa Barbara.

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Then I would walk kind of down the hill to my house.

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And then I would sit, and my back porch, beautiful, in Santa Barbara, and I drink some water or something,

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and the endorphins are unleashed because you've been exercising.

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I love that.

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It was like the filet mignon.

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It was a great moment, great feeling.

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Okay, great.

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Thank you, Lord, for that.

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But it passed.

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Of course, it always passes.

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You finish the water.

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And I'm like, all right, now what's next?

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So don't equate happiness in this sense with that, but that's good.

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And when it happens, you should savor it and thank God for it.

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If you can embrace it.

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Embrace it.

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Yeah, it's a gift.

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But if it doesn't happen, you can still be happy.

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See, that's why you're much more in control of your life.

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Is that conditional?

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Right.

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If your joy depends upon good feelings, now, see, he goes, what happens?

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Oh, I better take some more drugs to get that feeling.

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I better take more booze to get that feeling.

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I better, now I'm addicted to all these things so I can get that feeling.

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I don't know.

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Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and the rest will find its place.

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So the good feeling is like a planet going around, but so are bad feelings.

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And they find their place, right?

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But the focus is on the center.

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So the one thing that remains.

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Yeah, unum necessarium.

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Like you just said, I want to highlight this because I think it was really important, everything you said was, but that sense that,

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okay, good times, good feelings pass.

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Yeah.

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But so do bad times and bad feelings pass.

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That's right.

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And so I'm detached from both.

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In what, like in nature of Loyola.

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Yeah.

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Right, that sense that I just— So you want

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Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.

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Maybe I've discussed it with you before, I use it all the time, is that Wheel of Fortune image from the Gothic churches.

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That's the same idea.

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You live in the center of the wheel, not the rim that's always turning.

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That's life.

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It's always turning.

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But don't live on that.

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Live in the center and then watch it turn.

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That's okay.

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Whether I've got a long life or a short life, whether I'm wealthy or poor, whether I'm healthy or sick.

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Okay, I'm watching with a kind of insouciance, with a kind of detachment, a kind of indifference, spiritually speaking.

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But live in the center.

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That's the joyful place to live, right?

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I came across this quote that I kind of base this

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Advent reflection off by G .K.

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Chesterton.

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Yeah.

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And Chesterton had said, joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian.

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And that sense of that question—well, what would you say about that quote?

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Have you ever heard that before?

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Maybe I'm misquoting someone who was actually— I don't know if I have heard that.

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I mean, it's typical Chesterton, you know, brilliant and pithy and everything.

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No, that's what we're offering to the world, right?

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That's the secret is you don't find it in the typical ways.

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But we've got the secret, which is that's the treasure buried in the field, right?

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That's the pearl of great price.

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When you found that, sell everything.

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Sell the rest of it, wealth and pleasure, power.

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Sell all that.

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You found the pearl of great price, so get that.

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Or the treasure buried in the field is good because it's buried in me somewhere.

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It's this deep desire for God.

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And if I find that, get rid of everything else.

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Don't waste your time with the rest of it.

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Well, in some ways, the way as you're describing it, as you're kind of unpacking this in just impromptu, you know, just coming into it fresh,

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what I'm hearing is almost the equivalent of God himself.

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That God himself is the gigantic secret of the Christian.

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It's this sense of if you have him, then you have that sense of that abiding sense of well -being.

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You have the center of gravity.

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You have the thing that you're made for, beatitude.

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Right.

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And then there's Aquinas again.

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So it's not wealth, not pleasure, not power, not honor.

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What is it?

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His answer is God.

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The one thing that will fill us up and satisfy us is God.

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Or St. John of the Cross with the infinite caverns in us.

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And that's the infinite hunger for God.

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But I keep throwing all these finite things into it.

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Well, you put anything finite into the infinite cavern, it just goes.

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Exactly.

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It doesn't fill you up.

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It can't.

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But only God can fill you up.

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So that's the answer, you know?

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And seek that first, and God will fill you up.

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That's what he wants to do, right? And see,

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a lot of life—now we'll get into another subtlety in the spiritual order—is why does God strip us of these things?

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Now, see, again, John of the Cross, things like the dark night.

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The dark night is not like depression.

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The dark night is these moments of detachment.

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There can be the active dark night when I do it myself where I say, you know what?

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I'm too attached.

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Like, we put the cell phone on.

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It's this time of penance.

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Right.

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That's the active dark night.

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I'm going to put it.

484

But then, see, the passive dark night, it's really interesting because it's like, all right, if I'm not willing to do it,

485

God will do it for me.

486

He'll take away from me what I'm attached to, wealth, pleasure, power, honor, whatever it is.

487

And we say, oh, why did this happen to me?

488

Why is God being so cruel?

489

Yeah, to what end?

490

What's he doing?

491

But what he's doing is stripping things away that you might find him.

492

It's tough stuff.

493

That's high -octane Christian spirituality.

494

When God—God is never just at the top of the holy mountain and up there indifferently waiting for us to climb.

495

God is active, operative.

496

He knows me better than I know myself.

497

He knows my addictions better than I do.

498

And so he's trying to rid me of them.

499

So it's a way to read your own suffering sometimes.

500

Well, as you're describing that, here's someone who's listening to this.

501

And it's like, wait a second.

502

Here is this.

503

What you're saying is that at some point, God might need to purify me.

504

Yeah.

505

But my experience is that he's punishing me.

506

Like, my experience is not that, oh, this is so good what he's doing.

507

My experience is I am being crushed by this.

508

what is the maybe that you'd say here's the the christian who is experience experiencing purification

509

but they're experiencing as punishing what is a thing they can do

510

or reorient their vision for seeing okay god i i see not punishing

511

i see purifying maybe this again from is that whatever exists is god's will either his his active will

512

Or his permissive will.

513

So, I mean, whatever—you and I being here right now are the result of God's active will.

514

Because it's happening.

515

He wants this to happen.

516

Something bad happens, well, Christ will say, through God's permissive will.

517

God never actively wills bad things.

518

But he permits what we experience as bad things.

519

Always what?

520

Out of love, because that's all God is.

521

That's all he knows how to do.

522

There's nothing in his bag of tricks except love, because that's what he is.

523

Right?

524

So he can't.

525

In that way, we're more complex than God.

526

God is simple, Aquinas says.

527

And part of that simplicity is the simplicity of his nature.

528

So all he knows how to do is love.

529

So if something negative, at least from our perspective, is happening, we say, well, it's God's permissive will.

530

So why would he permit it?

531

And now see, it changes your whole perspective.

532

Now, like, poor me, I'm getting punished.

533

But, okay, why would God permit this to happen?

534

out of some, now, purification or some,

535

you know, stripping away or some detachment so I can fall more deeply in love with him, right?

536

So it's an attitudinal shift.

537

Again, that's metanoia, go beyond the mind you have, right?

538

Right, with that attitude, that's so important.

539

So basically, if I know the character of God, like you said, I know that he is love.

540

That's all he knows how to do.

541

And I trust it.

542

I trust him.

543

then maybe I can say what I used to see as this is punishment, or this is God even being indifferent to me.

544

He doesn't care.

545

He's just allowing me to get buffeted about by suffering and death and illness.

546

Now I say, but I know his heart.

547

I know he actually is good.

548

He's love.

549

It's hard, but I think theology really informs spirituality in an important way.

550

If you know that's God's nature.

551

When Aquinas says, can God sin?

552

And the objection is, well, yeah, heck, if I can sin, I'm free, and God's God, and he's totally free.

553

Of course, God could sin.

554

He doesn't, but he could.

555

And Aquinas goes, no, God can't sin.

556

It would be repugnant to his nature.

557

It would be like saying God can make a square circle.

558

So he can't sin.

559

He can't will something evil for me.

560

So whatever is happening to me under that aegis of the permissive or active will, God's about the work of love in my life.

561

Now, if I can move into that space, you know, and in prayer say not, I'm angry at you, but,

562

all right, Lord, help me understand what is happening in my life right now.

563

I want to cooperate with you.

564

Right.

565

Even in a situation where I don't want this to be the case.

566

Right.

567

Kind of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

568

Like, I don't want this to be the case.

569

Let this cup pass from me.

570

Yeah.

571

But I'm willing to—I want to will what you will, and I do will what you will.

572

You know, here's something in Aquinas I've always loved, because let's go back to Jeremiah, and it's in the Bible, it's in all of us,

573

when we say, like, oh, I'm trying to be a good person, what do I get?

574

I got nothing.

575

And here's this jerk over there, who's a terrible life, and he's got a big house, and everything's going great.

576

And Thomas says, yeah, but that's looking in a purely worldly way, that maybe God is punishing him with that big house,

577

because that big house is not good for him, and that big house is leading him down a bad path.

578

It's actually God's way of punishing him.

579

And that you're not getting the big house or the raise or whatever it is or the fame, that's purifying you.

580

That's God expressing his love for you.

581

So we have to change our attitude.

582

There's a worldly vision.

583

Whoever gets more wealth, plusher, power, honor, they're really doing well.

584

Don't play that game.

585

God wants you to become his friend.

586

That's what God wants.

587

And even in some ways, sparing you.

588

Yes.

589

Because he knows me well enough.

590

Yes, that if you got, or I got the wealth and the power, that it wouldn't be good.

591

It would actually lead me down a bad path.

592

So Aquinas says, that could be the devil giving you those things.

593

Well, I remember a man, he taught moral theology at St. Thomas and St. Paul Seminary in St. Paul.

594

And at one point, I asked him his vocation, sorry, he was a married man, father of a bunch of kids.

595

And he said, you know, I discerned seminary before I got married and everything.

596

And he said, and I looked at the life of a priest and I thought, that is my ideal, my dream.

597

But he said, but I prayed about it for a long time.

598

He was discernment.

599

And he said, I realized, though, that the potential for me to,

600

for the life of a priest to cater to all of my worst inclinations and temptations.

601

He said, I would be the priest who, like, hey, it's four o 'clock, turn off the light, lock in the door.

602

Like, I'm now going to go and live for me.

603

And he says, I realized that God couldn't, wasn't calling me to that life because he was calling me to a life

604

that would actually purify me of my self -love.

605

And of my, where I walk home, I come home from work and my kids are there and they don't care how hard I worked yet.

606

That's right.

607

They're like, Dad, we need you now for this thing.

608

But that was a much more spiritually demanding life.

609

Yeah.

610

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So is...

611

Christmas, if joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian, does Christmas or does

612

Christianity, does it declare joy or does it bring joy?

613

Well, I would say this, see, Christmas now.

614

So we've been talking about our hunger for God and all that.

615

But see, the real story of the Bible, especially of Christianity, is not our quest for God, but God's quest for us.

616

God's after us, right?

617

And so he comes as a baby to lure us because we're distracted by all these things.

618

But, like, you know the experience when you're at a party or something and someone brings in a baby, right?

619

The baby's here.

620

Everyone comes over.

621

Everyone's attracted, right, to look at the baby.

622

I always think of that as how God has sent prophets

623

and he sent the Torah and he sent the temple on us.

624

And Israel falls away.

625

So he finally comes as this irresistible baby.

626

It's God's entry into our human condition and project and all that.

627

Because he wants us to find him.

628

I think we all get caught up in this illusion

629

that God's kind of distant and he's playing games and he's kind of this Promethean idea.

630

That if I climb the mountain, I steal fire, he's gonna get mad.

631

That's completely repugnant to the Bible.

632

The Bible is all about God wants us into his life and be his friends.

633

And so Christmas is that.

634

God has climbed right into the midst of our humanity and then is trying to draw us to—again, that's Chesterton, isn't it?

635

Is that we actually look down into the face of God.

636

That's Christianity, right?

637

It's all the religious.

638

I'm going to look up toward the transcendent mystery.

639

Fine, he is the transcendent mystery.

640

But now I look down into the face of a baby and I say, well, that's how God has found me.

641

That's why it's a source of joy, I think, Christmas.

642

But I love that image of the baby at the party.

643

Yeah, everyone's distracted with the baby.

644

Or even into a couple's life.

645

It's this necessary and often joyful reorientation of everything we are.

646

Yeah.

647

So here's a couple, and they're living for each other, maybe, hopefully, for themselves a lot.

648

And then the introduction of a child is now— Revolution.

649

Everything is now— It's the Copernican revolution.

650

Touched by this new life.

651

And here's Christianity.

652

Here's Christmas.

653

We're doing our thing.

654

And then here comes the Lord.

655

And it reorients, touches every part of our lives.

656

And he demands that either we say, no, I'm going to ignore the baby.

657

Yeah.

658

Or put the baby like it's one of the things we do.

659

Well, and of course, you know, so yes, the baby attracts.

660

We look down on the face of Christ but also they tried to kill him right away.

661

So that's why I love the Bible is so honest and so clear.

662

It's not sentimental that right away, Herod and all Jerusalem tremble because this baby's coming.

663

Who is this baby?

664

The king?

665

What are you talking about?

666

And then once he finds out, I'm going to kill that baby.

667

Man, there's one of the best expressions of human sinfulness.

668

God becomes one of them.

669

God becomes an innocent, vulnerable baby, and my move is to kill him.

670

Right.

671

But see, there's sin, you know?

672

And so from the beginning, the baby entranced the human race, and the baby is opposed, which comes to its full expression on the cross, right?

673

So, yeah, all of that drama of I want beatitude, but when beatitude shows up as a baby, I want to kill him, right?

674

Because it demands something.

675

That's how messed up we are.

676

Well, and even I think of John 11, where Jesus raises Lazarus.

677

And it says there's these two kind of responses to Jesus raising this man from the dead.

678

It's many of those who came to Martha and Mary about their brother began to believe in him.

679

And then a couple of verses later, others tried to kill him.

680

As a result of first his presence in our world in the incarnation

681

and then him revealing who he really is in John 11.

682

Yeah, yeah.

683

These are our responses.

684

No, and there's the great mystery.

685

The mysterium indiquitatis, as they say the mystery of evil.

686

Like, why are we resistant to the one thing that will make us happy?

687

That's the drama.

688

And I think much of the drama in our literature and art is traceable to that.

689

It's the one thing we want, we resist it.

690

And it's a tragedy.

691

But see, God in the incarnation tries to run around our resistance.

692

And that's why, you see, the cross, like Balthazar's language, he goes to the limits of God -forsakenness.

693

God goes into God -forsakenness.

694

He goes into the worst of our humanity so that when we're running away from the Father, we're running into the arms of the Son.

695

That was his attempt to save us, right?

696

Now, again, we can still resist that.

697

That's the mystery of hell, is that even this...

698

This acrobatic act of love on God's part, the incarnation, the cross, even that can be resisted.

699

Now, there's the mystery of the Nebuchadnezzar to the ultimate degree.

700

But it's like surrender to him.

701

He's done everything he possibly can to save us, to give us the one thing we want.

702

So how about try surrendering to him?

703

I think it's fascinating that, you know, when we began speaking about joy, one of the first things you brought up was the cross.

704

Yeah.

705

And I think a lot of times where come to the Lord and know joy, we might separate it from the cross.

706

We say the joy of the resurrection, which is great, which is real, the joy of life in the Holy Spirit, which is real.

707

But at the same time, to recognize that you said, here's Jesus on the cross.

708

That is a happy man.

709

Yeah, absolutely.

710

And it goes so powerfully against not only, I think, what we might common sense approach,

711

but also what I don't want that.

712

Like, I might trade that in for I just want to be happy.

713

Like, I just, I don't need extremes.

714

Like, I don't need the pinnacle of joy.

715

I just, I want to be okay.

716

And there's something right in that.

717

I think we're like a saint has found a kind of equilibrium in the surrender to God's will.

718

And knowing it'll involve the ups and downs of, again, think of our friend

719

Mother Teresa, you know, that we discovered really after she died.

720

We didn't know the depth of the darkness she was experiencing.

721

But to me, it just made her more beautiful and more powerful as a saintly figure because she found the center, no question about that.

722

She experienced great highs of ecstasy, and she heard, literally, heard the voice of Jesus speaking to her.

723

And then for 50 years, she didn't, and she felt darkness.

724

Okay, but she had found this center, this equilibrium.

725

That's her holiness, right?

726

The good feelings and all that came and went, but she stayed on beam of the true source of joy.

727

It's hard stuff, though.

728

That's hard stuff in the spiritual order.

729

And it seems like, like you said, it goes back to seek first the kingdom of God.

730

Seek first God himself.

731

Right.

732

Is it I want the gift of God or I want the giver?

733

Right.

734

And I think maybe it's the last time you and I talked, we both hit upon that famous distinction.

735

Do I love the benefits of God, Or do I love the will of God?

736

And see, a lot hinges on that.

737

And God will sometimes give you a lot of benefits in the beginning of the spiritual to kind of draw

738

you into friendship.

739

And people full of consolations, and I love prayer, I love the Mass.

740

Great, great.

741

But see, he will also take those things away from you because you're not meant to fall in love with his benefits.

742

So I love God as long as things are going great for me.

743

As long as I have Celine Dion and nice hikes and friendship and I'm in good health.

744

Okay, great.

745

But he wants you to fall in love with him and his will, not his benefits, right?

746

And that's tough stuff.

747

That's high -octane.

748

But it's real love as opposed to kind of a mercenary love or that kind of sense of God.

749

You get my heart so long as transactional.

750

I'll love you that I might get something from you.

751

Circumstantial.

752

Yeah, and that's the great saints now all come to that moment.

753

And so God wants more for us than we want because I want to be okay.

754

I want to be okay.

755

But God's like, no, I want more for you than, okay, I want joy.

756

He wants you divinized.

757

The goal of the Christian life is not being a morally upright person.

758

That's great.

759

I'm all in favor of it.

760

It's not to be a guy that gets along with everybody.

761

The goal of the spiritual life is to be divinized.

762

Deus fit homo and homo fiorit Deus, the Church of the Fathers always said.

763

God became man that man might become God.

764

But that's serious stuff.

765

I mean, God becomes one of us

766

that our nature might be elevated to participation in his nature is the way you say it more exactly.

767

Man.

768

It's not just marginally more ethical or marginally more kind to people.

769

A new person.

770

You're meant to become a new creation, not just a nice guy.

771

That's why, you know, Flannery and Connors think about being a Christian does not mean just having a heart of gold.

772

Yeah.

773

That's what most people think.

774

Oh, he's a Christian.

775

Got a heart of gold.

776

No, it means you're a new creation, right?

777

and now that expresses itself ethically in certain clear ways but

778

it's a much more serious game that we're playing so in this looking at joy

779

is I'm going to say is it this or that because my guess would be you might say both but

780

is joy clearly joy is a fruit of the spirit

781

So we know joy is a fruit of the Spirit.

782

Is it also a virtue?

783

Well, it's a very interesting question, because, you know, again, we're

784

Catholics, and so we like the both and.

785

Yeah, exactly.

786

In fact, I'm going to preach on it tonight a bit, because the gospel for tonight is new wine, new wineskins, right?

787

And that whole idea of as grace rushes in, you know, gratia saponit naturam, right?

788

Grace supposes nature and elevates nature,

789

so that nature should be strong enough to kind of receive and elastic enough to receive the new life of grace, right?

790

So Aristotle, I remember learning this in Philosophy 101, what's happiness?

791

And he says the one thing everybody wants, right?

792

What is it?

793

He says activity of soul in accord with perfect virtue.

794

So what's distinctive to us, he said, well, it's our souls.

795

Animals seek happiness and sensual pleasure and all this stuff.

796

But we have a higher thing.

797

And so what's the highest activity of our highest faculty?

798

It would be the moral life.

799

The moral life is led in accord with virtue.

800

When you avoid the extremes, this and that, the medium, so now courage and prudence and temperance and justice, that's happiness for Aristotle.

801

Okay, Thomas agrees with that.

802

Yeah.

803

That's natural happiness, you might say.

804

Is that eudaimonia?

805

Yeah, eudaimonia, he would have said.

806

Having a happy demon in you, like having a happy— So it's doing good more than feeling good.

807

Would that be accurate?

808

Yeah, because he would have made that distinction for sure.

809

Aristotle knew that too, that it wasn't just a matter of, hey, I've got a lot of money, so I feel good.

810

He thought it was a moral act.

811

Okay, and Aquinas would say, yes, and.

812

He would say, there's the wineskins that are now ready to receive what he calls supernatural justice,

813

supernatural prudence, supernatural and so on.

814

And then the fruits of the Holy Spirit, and then the theological virtues.

815

So you're like pouring all this new wine, but into the ample and elastic wineskins of the natural of Eudaimonia.

816

So that would be my elaborate way of saying both and, right?

817

So I'm going to urge people tonight, in fact, in light of that gospel image, you know, Now, if you're kind of feeling lost spiritually,

818

I don't know, what's in there?

819

One way is, well, work like on the Ten Commandments in your life and work on the basic.

820

Like, you know, when the Lord says to the rich young man, you know, I want eternal life.

821

Well, you know the commandments.

822

Yeah, I've done these.

823

Well, the commandments are—Thomas says they're the first principle of the natural law, the Ten Commandments.

824

So, yeah, try to be a decent, virtuous person.

825

But then, okay, and I've done all that for my youth.

826

All right, now you're ready.

827

See for the new wine.

828

But he wasn't, see which tells me he wasn't really following the king.

829

He said he was, but he went away sad because he couldn't take in the new wine.

830

That, to me, would be a biblically -based

831

Catholic both -and proposition.

832

Get Aristotle and Aquinas in the same picture.

833

Good, good.

834

This was a gift and a virtue.

835

Yeah.

836

It's not something we receive, but also something we have to exercise.

837

Yeah, I think—look, I mean, God is God.

838

He can do whatever he wants.

839

God can remake me from the ground up.

840

But it seems to be his preferred method, that there's a kind of scaffolding in place that comes from nature.

841

So, gratia saponit naturam, it rests upon nature.

842

And then Thomas says, at perficit am, it perfects it.

843

It's beautiful.

844

So, we don't have to destroy nature to get grace.

845

Grace elevates and it perfects nature.

846

There's the burning bush, right?

847

Right.

848

The bush is on fire but not consumed.

849

So your natural virtues now become more radiant and more beautiful when grace invades them.

850

And the fact that we're made in this, our nature, made in God's image, is oriented towards these good things.

851

It's oriented towards this.

852

So when I, by God's grace, here's a fruit of the Spirit, I can live this way, but I have to exercise this.

853

It's not contrary to how we're created to live like this.

854

It builds upon that.

855

So the joy that is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, that is a gift, right?

856

It's like faith, hope, and charity.

857

Charity in that full sense is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

858

I can't really practice my way to charity.

859

I receive it.

860

But I can prepare.

861

Since grace builds on nature, I can prepare with the natural virtues to receive it.

862

That seems to be God's way.

863

He likes to operate that way.

864

The movement from small to big seems to be part of God's providence.

865

Right, mustard seed becomes a big tree.

866

That principle, or give me the five little loaves of the fish,

867

and from that, yeah, that's a good image actually for it because what do you have?

868

Yeah.

869

What do you have?

870

Well, we got this.

871

What's this to feed so many?

872

Give it to me.

873

I'll elevate it and multiply it for the feeding of the world.

874

But he loves to get us involved.

875

It's like, what do you have?

876

Well, I got some of these natural virtues.

877

Like, yeah, good.

878

Give them to me.

879

Give him to me, and I will turn you into a saint.

880

But he likes building on nature, I think.

881

So that's so good, because I think that leads us into this last question.

882

And I think this will be online right before Advent starts.

883

And so here, as people are invited into, here's this season of joyful and devout preparation for the celebration of Christmas.

884

What is a thing that would kind of pave that way?

885

You say, okay, as you enter into the season of Advent,

886

what is something we can do to prepare our hearts for this joy that God's made us for, this beatitude that God has made us for?

887

You know, I go back to what we said earlier about distractions and diversions and all that, is try to identify those.

888

What is it that's distracting me all the time?

889

What am I preoccupied with?

890

And to try to name it, see it, and to set that aside.

891

and also to awaken your sense of anticipation.

892

Lord, I know these things don't satisfy me.

893

I know they don't.

894

I've tried over and over again.

895

I was thinking of every single

896

Billy Graham sermon at the same basic structure, which was, I know you've tried this, you've tried this, you've tried that.

897

They haven't worked, have they?

898

I got what will work.

899

Every sermon you ever gave me has that basic structure.

900

Good.

901

That's gospel stuff you know uh identify the divertissement identify the distraction the diversion

902

what's what's drawn you down bad paths all right now lord i'm going to set that aside

903

come come lord jesus right so

904

so the first step might actually make you a little bit sad yeah you know

905

because the diversion is not there and i might have to and enter it like truly as as the church says,

906

enter into a desert with joy.

907

Yes.

908

I don't know if you find this.

909

I've been a priest for 40 years now and a bishop for, I don't know, how many years? But every Advent, every

910

Lent, I start moving to the same place.

911

All right, Lord, I'm still—it's like Merton's prayer.

912

I have no idea where I'm going.

913

I still—I'm still lost.

914

I'm still diverted.

915

I'm still seeking the wrong stuff.

916

And not that it's hopeless.

917

but it's coming back to that moment

918

and admitting again you're a sinner go back to the beginning go back to the fundamentals of the spiritual life

919

that's a good exercise and it's what we need

920

in order to set ourselves up to receive the joy

921

that God wants for us it's why the church brings us back to

922

that moment again and again alright let's try it again praise God for that

923

praise God for this conversation thank you so much for taking the time again

924

And I'm so, so grateful.

925

Once again, if you're interested in this series over the course of Advent called Joy to the World,

926

you can get the Ascension app or go to ascensionpress .com slash Fr.

927

Mike Advent.

928

I wish you, Barron, thank you so much.

929

Thank you for the work you do in the church and for just the man you are in this world.

930

Well, thank you.

931

It was my joy to be with you, Mike.

932

Thanks.

933

Thanks, Mike.

934

God bless.

935

Thank you.

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このレッスンの語彙とスピーキングのポイント

このスピーキングレッスンは、動画「The Difference Between Happiness and Joy Explained」を教材にしています。この動画には、シャドーイング用の文が935文、単語が8942語あります。音声の長さは48:33です。話す速さは速く、1分あたり約184語です。音のつながりや弱く発音される音が多くなります。単語の85%は英語の頻出3,000語に含まれます。残りは練習の前に確認しておきましょう。

この動画の重要語彙

動画に出てくる覚えておきたい単語15語を、発音と意味つきで紹介します。

単語	発音	意味
happiness 名詞	/ˈhæpinɪs/	幸福, 幸せ
spiritual 形容詞	/ˈspɪɹɪt͡ʃuəl/	精神的
moral 形容詞	/ˈmoɹəl/	倫理的な
virtue 名詞	/ˈvɝt͡ʃu/	力天使
diversion 名詞	/dɪˈvɝ.ʒən/	陽動
preparation 名詞	/ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/	準備, 支度
mystery 名詞	/ˈmɪs.t(ə.)ɹi/	ミステリー, 不思議
gospel 名詞	/ˈɡɑspəl/	福音書
theology 名詞	/θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/	神学
strip 動詞	/ˈstɹɪp/	剥ぐ, 外す
celebration 名詞	/ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/	お祝い, 祝賀
punish 動詞	/ˈpʌnɪʃ/	罰する, 懲罰する
distract 動詞	/dɪˈstɹækt/	気をそらす
addict 名詞	/ˈæd.ɪkt/	中毒者
prayer 名詞	/pɹɛɚ/	祈り, 祈祷

動画に出てくる句動詞

単語	発音	意味
bring up 動詞		育てる
come over 動詞		遣って来る
find out 動詞		見出す, 調べる
go away 動詞		去る, 出る
look down on 動詞		見下す, 軽んじる
look up 動詞	/ˌlʊk ˈʌp/	見上げる
show up 動詞		現れる
turn off 動詞		消す, 切る

繰り返し練習したい文

動画に出てくる短く完結した文です。日常会話でそのまま使えます。

What is this elusive thing that we all want?
What are you looking for?
I don't know, what's in there?
It's like, what do you have?
What is it that's distracting me all the time?

この動画の文法

話し手がよく使っている文型を、動画の実際の表現とともに紹介します。

文型	動画での表現
現在完了進行形 have/has been + -ing — 以前に始まり今も続いている動作	I've been teaching · you've been seeking · you've been exercising
条件文 if + 節, will/would + 動詞 — 条件とその結果	if you get wealth, you'll know · If you get pleasure, you'll know
現在完了形 have/has + 過去分詞 — 過去の出来事が今も関係している	it's been · have come · we've heard
受動態 be + 過去分詞 — 誰がするかより、何が起きるかに焦点を当てる	is described · will be given · was asked

注意したい発音

話し手はI'm, don't, we'reなど、短縮形や弱形を229回使っています。聞こえたとおりの短い形で発音しましょう。

「th」の音: theology /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/, wealthy /ˈwɛl.θi/, authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/
「sh」と「zh」の音: diversion /dɪˈvɝ.ʒən/, preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/, celebration /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/, punish /ˈpʌnɪʃ/, bishop /ˈbɪʃəp/
長い単語（アクセントの位置に注意）: preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/, theology /θiˈɒ.lə.d͡ʒi/, celebration /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/, supernatural /ˌsu.pəɹˈnæ.tʃə.ɹəl/, equilibrium /ɛkwɪˈlɪbɹɪəm/

日本語話者が苦手な音：

/r/ と /l/ の区別 — /l/ は舌先を歯茎につけ、/r/ はどこにもつけない: spiritual /ˈspɪɹɪt͡ʃuəl/, moral /ˈmoɹəl/, celebration /ˌsɛl.ɪˈbɹeɪ.ʃən/, supernatural /ˌsu.pəɹˈnæ.tʃə.ɹəl/, equilibrium /ɛkwɪˈlɪbɹɪəm/
/v/ — /b/ にならないように、上の歯を下唇に当てる: advent /ˈæd.vɛnt/, virtue /ˈvɝt͡ʃu/, diversion /dɪˈvɝ.ʒən/, gravity /ˈɡɹævɪti/, involve /ɪnˈvɑlv/
/f/ — 「フ」ではなく、上の歯と下唇で出す: infinite /ˈɪnfɪnɪt/, satisfy /ˈsætɪsfaɪ/, finite /ˈfaɪ.naɪt/, friendship /ˈfɹɛn(d)ʃɪp/, reflect /ɹɪˈflɛkt/

この動画での練習方法

まず声を出さずに動画を最後まで聞き、知らない単語をメモします。
まず0.75倍速で一文ずつシャドーイングし、慣れてきたら通常の速度に戻します。
自分の声を録音して元の音声と比べます。happiness, spiritual, moralなどの単語に特に注意しましょう。

シャドーイングとは？英語上達に効果的な理由

シャドーイング（Shadowing）は、もともとプロの通訳者養成プログラムで開発された言語学習法で、多言語習得者として知られるDr. Alexander Arguelles によって広く普及されました。方法はシンプルですが非常に効果的：ネイティブスピーカーの英語を聞きながら、1〜2秒の遅延で声に出してすぐに繰り返す——まるで「影（shadow）」のように話者を追いかけます。文法ドリルや受動的なリスニングと異なり、シャドーイングは脳と口の筋肉が同時にリアルタイムで英語を処理・再現することを強制します。研究により、発音精度、抑揚、リズム、連音、リスニング力、そして会話の流暢さが大幅に向上することが確認されています。IELTSスピーキング対策や自然な英語コミュニケーションを目指す方に特におすすめです。

シャドーイングのやり方: ステップ別の完全ガイドを読む →

シャドーイング練習: The Difference Between Happiness and Joy Explained | Fr. Mike Schmitz and Bishop Barron - 動画で英語スピーキングを学ぶ

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このレッスンの語彙とスピーキングのポイント

この動画の重要語彙

動画に出てくる句動詞

繰り返し練習したい文

この動画の文法

注意したい発音

この動画での練習方法

シャドーイングとは？英語上達に効果的な理由