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Welcome to Freight Unpacked, the podcast where we explore the people behind Australia's freight and logistics industry.

In this episode, I'm joined by Sean Hunter.

Sean's career hasn't followed the traditional freight forwarding path.

After more than two decades leading businesses in the marine wholesale industry, he made the move into freight forwarding,

bringing with him a commercial mindset and a unique perspective from the customer's side of the supply chain.

In our conversation, we explore what it takes to transition into freight, why attention to detail and customer service remain critical in an industry driven by deadlines,

and how AI is beginning to reshape the way freight businesses operate.

Sean also shares his thoughts on leadership, building strong teams, supporting staff through stress and burnout,

and why regular conversations can make all the difference to workplace culture.

Whether you're already working in freight, thinking about entering the industry or leading a team of your own,

this episode is full of practical insights from someone who has successfully navigated change throughout his career.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Sean.

Hi, Sean.

Welcome to Freight Unpacked.

Hi, Sharon.

Thank you for having me on.

You're welcome.

I'm very excited to chat to you today.

Okay.

Yes, me too.

Why?

What are you going to ask me?

Yeah, no, that's all good.

No, I'm interested to know because you've had a little bit of a, like, you've had a solid career, but then you've had a bit of a divergence towards the end of it into something that's quite different.

Yes.

And whilst it's still freight forwarding, it's a slightly different model.

Do you want to maybe just take me through some of it?

Yeah, no problem.

Yeah, the current structure of the business that I'm running here now, as far as the freight forwarding goes is

that we're running basically a wholesale buying and selling freight model rather than a traditional freight forwarder, which I was in and running before.

So yeah, it's a different scenario.

We're dealing with large multinational freight forters

and we're buying on a wholesale level from them and on selling it to our client base.

So it's a bit of a different structure.

They handle the day-to-day operational side of the jobs, et cetera.

So we're more of a sales, customer service focused business here.

Yeah.

So it's a little bit different, but it's good as well.

Okay.

And what kind of challenges do you face that you didn't face before?

I guess the main challenge is that you are relying on third parties for just their speediness of replies on quotes,

et cetera, rates, and those sorts of things.

I mean, that's the same scenario if you're running a traditional freight forwarder, if you're relying on overseas agents, et cetera, to get back to you.

It's the same, but slightly different, I guess, is the thing.

But it's good in most respects.

There's no real problems with it at all.

That's really good.

And why did you decide to make the change?

Well, I left the previous company, so took a bit of time off in between, and then this opportunity came up.

And, yeah, it seemed like a really good one at the time.

Jumped into that.

I've been here 18 months now and it's growing dramatically.

So that's a good thing.

Change sometimes is as good as the holiday.

Yeah, and was it what you were looking like?

Did you picture that's where you go after you left?

No, I didn't really have a specific plan.

I just knew that I'd probably stay in the same industry, although I haven't been in the freight industry all of my life, so I could have gone back to other things as well.

Okay.

But this opportunity came up and it was a bit too good to pass up in the end.

So where did you come from originally?

So originally I worked in the marine wholesaling industry so did that for 20 odd years.

Ran a company that was a medium-sized marine import wholesale business

and then left there and worked for the largest one in the country running a couple of their divisions.

You know they're a 250 million dollar a year company.

I oversaw the New South Wales and Victoria and Tasmania divisions, I guess you'd like to say.

Had a couple of warehouses I was in charge of there as well.

You know, 15 sales reps, all of those sorts of things.

So the good thing about that was, and then coming into the freight industry, is that you've been on the other side.

So you know what it's like waiting for goods, ordering from overseas.

You get a much more broad perspective of what it's like

for the client as well as what it's like for the freight forwarder.

Yeah, I mean, how did you get into freight forwarding?

Because I work with a lot of freight forwarders

and they generally don't want to employ someone outside of the industry too often.

Yeah, well, a friend of mine was a sort of investment banker, etc. And they purchased the company that I was with before this one.

And I was just talking to him one day and he said, have you ever thought of a change of business?

I need someone like you to come in and work in the business there.

and yeah it was just after 23 or so years working in marine wholesaling it was a good opportunity.

I'd always been involved in the logistics side also in our business both domestic and international.

Yeah.

Doing all the negotiations on the freight rates

and both as I say both domestically and international

so it was something that I knew

but you think you know it until you get into the freight forwarding business and there's obviously a lot more involved, but that's fine.

Yeah, it's a bit different.

Yeah.

And what was the steepest learning curve year when you jumped into the industry?

I think the biggest thing at the start was just all the acronyms that were used for everything.

You'd be sitting in meetings and they'd be just referencing all the different types of acronyms for different things.

You just had to pick it up pretty quickly.

So Google was a good help in that scenario back then.

Obviously, that's about 15 years ago now or 13 years ago.

So nowadays, it's all second nature.

But it's a challenge.

But that's what life's all about.

It is a challenge indeed.

I agree with you on the acronyms.

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I struggled when I first jumped into the industry.

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And I had just a book of all the definitions of the acronyms.

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Yeah.

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So I can get through it.

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It's crazy.

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Yeah, it is it's a different thing.

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But anyway, I picked it up pretty quickly, to be honest, and here we are now.

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Okay.

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And what was something when you started in the industry, did you actually, did you have any regrets when you jumped into it?

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No, not particularly.

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Obviously, it was a big change from what I had been doing for all of that time.

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So yeah, that was a challenge, but no real regrets because I'd done enough of what I had been doing to want to change anyway.

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So it was just good timing.

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You're ready.

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Ready to run.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And you've been in, so you were in management before you started in freight.

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How, so when you're in management for a long time,

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how do you keep yourself grounded in that role and sort of connected with everyone in the operations?

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I think certainly from the businesses that I was in previously, I was involved in everything that happened day to day.

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And you've got to, I think it's a mistake to go into those types of roles

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and not have a full understanding of the business right from the start to finish.

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So, you know, when I was running the marine side of things, we would go down and help the guys unload containers or do whatever needed to do to be done, you know.

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So because that's where I started it, you know, I started in warehousing back, you know, when I was 18 sort of thing.

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And then in that company, I just happened to be offered a role at that company through a friend of mine.

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Started there and within about six years, I was the general manager there.

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So, you know, it's just a matter of getting in and having it go.

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So I think I've always just been good at just being involved in the business, not just at the top end.

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If you just try to do that, I think you struggle to really understand a business.

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Yeah.

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And you can get a bit removed from the day to day.

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operations and what's happening

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and the struggles they may be having that's right yeah 100 on a daily basis

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and i mean the industries hasn't changed but it's also i think change is coming

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a little bit with ai what are your thoughts on

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that yeah i think it's just hard i don't think it's going to replace you know thousands of jobs

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and maybe it will i don't know but it's certainly it's certainly a tool

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that we're definitely starting to use here a lot more and develop.

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And I think it'll be a bit of a godsend for just the speed to market on turnaround of quotes

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and whatever else you're doing and improving the processes and just making things a lot more professional in the presentation, et cetera.

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So yeah, we're using it quite a bit here now.

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We have some internal people within the business because obviously this business where I'm working doesn't just do freight and logistics, etc. It does a whole lot more.

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So we have a team of IT people here who are extremely IT, AI focused and they're able to help us to determine how

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and where we can use it to grow out as our department of the business as well.

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So what do you think it's, do you think it's going to make room for other things in the industry?

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Potentially, yeah.

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Not 100% sure.

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I think it'll just speed things up.

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You know, if you have AI involved in a lot of the back end of running a business, certainly in the freight business,

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a lot of things are sort of slow to get, whether it be, you know, if you're just searching for an XWorks rate or something like that, they tend to be the slowest ones.

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So, you know, everyone around the world could be having AI in the background and working on their rate structures, et cetera.

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So you're not having to have whole teams of people there just monitoring and maintaining those things constantly.

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That'll just speed up the flow of information to clients, I guess.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, people are talking about it replacing customs brokers.

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Do you think that's going to happen?

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I would think so.

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That's probably one where I would think an area that it really would because it's pretty structured.

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You know, something either fits in this box or that box.

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And that's where AI is pretty good.

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I mean, if you think of, that's probably one of the biggest bugbears of customers, et cetera, is the whole customers piece.

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And, you know, just how involved it is.

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And it's really, it's like anything, it's like the tax structure within Australia.

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It's over-engineered and just becomes really difficult.

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So I would think that that would be an area

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that it's quite probable

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that it would replace hmm yeah that's interesting yeah i mean i've had a few conversations with people about

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that and there's very different points of view on whether it's going to be capable of replacing a customs broker

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but yeah like you say it is probable it can yeah

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it's most likely it's going to happen yeah i mean it's one area

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that i've thought about that i would think would be the most logical

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or the first anyway whether that be also i mean you can look at operations type roles and things as well.

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A lot of what we do is quite structured.

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So there's areas where, and it might not replace, it might just assist to speed up the process. Who knows?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Exactly.

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And another thing that comes up quite frequently is the level of stress in this industry and the high volume.

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And I mean, you've been in this for some time now.

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How do you manage that?

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Yeah, it's difficult.

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I think it's just about working on your own processes and We've just been talking about it today.

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It's just that whole, you know, I would get anything from 300 to 500 emails a day, you know, so it's a lot.

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So if you're just focusing on that, I think I worked out not long ago, it's one every minute or whatever it is through a day.

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That's difficult to keep up on and keep on top of.

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And so that's where we're starting to use the AI to process all of that and assist with departmentalizing it.

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So, you know, you can structure your day as to

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which areas you need to focus on because it's constant and it's nonstop.

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Yeah, that's crazy.

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That is a lot of emails.

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I have heard it's huge, but wow, that's quite a lot.

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Yeah, it is a lot.

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I mean, yeah, how do you stay on top of that now without the assistance of AI?

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It's extremely difficult.

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Yeah, you just do long hours you do long days

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and just try and stay on top of things where you can

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and you use the existing tools within in your business to try

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and prioritize things correctly and just get on with the things

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that are really actually going to um make a difference yeah that's true that's true wow

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so i mean that sounds hectic how do you manage like how do you remove yourself from

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that when you go home like switch off or just ignore it

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when it's so easy to pick up your phone or your laptop

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and have a look at those emails yeah probably not very good at

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that yeah it's something I've always I think never since I

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was young just working I always struggled to turn off you know

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you know I was thinking about what needs to be done

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or what you're working on etc

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so it's it's not an easy thing especially as you say now

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that technology follows you everywhere you go there's nowhere you can be where you're not seeing messages come through

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or emails etc or whatever the case might be and

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if it's from one of your larger clients it's hard to

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you know not respond yeah absolutely yeah the answer is you don't have no not really not not really all

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that well yeah i think it's difficult if you

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if you're really taking your work seriously

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and you're wanting to grow the business whatever business that might be it's difficult to just ignore things I guess,

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yes, at night, et cetera, it's easier.

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People aren't expecting a response at night or anything like that specifically.

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And obviously, there'll be clients that once you do start to respond at those types of hours, will continue to, you know, expect that.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Yeah, it's a difficult thing, but it is part of the, it's just part of modern day, I think.

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Well, you seem relatively calm.

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So, you know, you must be handling it on some level.

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Yeah.

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Or it's just what I'm used to, to be honest.

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Yeah.

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You just get on with the day to day.

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And as you say, it's just about processing things quickly and getting on to the next topic.

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Yeah.

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What about young people getting into this industry?

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I mean, you didn't have the traditional sort of entry into the industry because a lot of people start out as,

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yes, you started in the warehouse but a lot of people start out as a house clerk or registration clerk.

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Now those jobs don't even exist.

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So how do you think people get into the industry these days or what would you suggest to someone wanting to?

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Well, it's interesting.

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My son has started in the industry, which I'd never thought he would or had any interest to do at all.

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He just came home one day

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and said he's been offered a role as a cadetship type role in a freight forwarding business, but he has done a commerce degree.

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So they were looking for that as well as part of the job requirements, I guess you might say.

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So he's gone in and working just through an operations type role.

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As I say, I never thought he would get into the industry at all, or he hadn't ever expressed any interest in it.

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I think maybe it was just a role that popped up that he thought, why not at the time?

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that's interesting so i do feel

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that probably people will need to be a little more educated to get into this industry

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because you don't have those levels of entry point yeah having a degree is really beneficial look for sure

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and i guess but i don't know how that degree specifically gives you any, you know, experience in the role.

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And once you get in there, yes, you have a good understanding, depending on what degree the degree is, of course.

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I mean, obviously he's done a commerce degree.

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So you have an understanding of business, but you're not necessarily working in businesses at that point.

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But it gives you a good understanding and you can get in and just have a go.

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Yeah, you said Cartage, is that right?

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Did he start it?

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No, no, he's doing, he's working in ops.

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Operations, sorry.

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Yeah, deep right ops. So, right.

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That's going to...

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Imports?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I think that's all he does.

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He doesn't, you know, kids alone, he doesn't talk too much about it.

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Yeah, I do.

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I don't know so much about it.

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But, no, he seems to be enjoying it.

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And as I've said to him, it's one of those industries that will never disappear because people will always need goods moving backwards or forwards at some state.

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It's, you know, in one way or another, I mean, it might disappear at some time, but certainly in the near future, that's not going to be the case.

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I mean, it's not going to disappear.

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There will still need to be some kind of someone overseeing problem solving the issues.

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There's always issues.

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Like, it can't be handled by a robot 100%.

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No. No, that's right especially when you're dealing across countries and different languages, all of these sorts of things, there'll always be people involved, of course.

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So it's an industry that has potential for him.

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If that's what he chooses to do long term, who knows?

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And we're an island, so we need everything to be sent to us, basically.

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Exactly, exactly.

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And everyone's obsessed with online shopping these days.

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So, you know, that's just huge.

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That's not going to go away anytime soon.

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No, definitely not.

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And if someone, and when you do look at people that are suitable for this industry, what kind of traits do you think they should have?

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Good question.

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I think they've just got to really have an eye to detail.

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It's a sort of industry where you can easily get things wrong.

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And it can be costly to either your own business or to your client.

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And it can cost, you know, it can cost those relationships pretty quickly.

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So I think you've just got to, yeah, certainly be thorough and sort of pragmatic in that regard to just ensuring that everything is,

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you know, all the I's are dotted and T's across right through the booking process and the shipping process.

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So I think, yeah, it's a bit hard, I guess, but yeah, not everyone's cut out for it, that's for sure.

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No, and that's exactly right.

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They aren't cut out for it.

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And I mean, what type of personality do you think it takes to thrive

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in this industry? i don't know that's not really as i

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say i think it's just people who are sort of focused on

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that detail you really need to have that

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and that's hard to gauge you know i've employed people who you think are going to be a natural

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and they've looked at and and just it's just not for them at all

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and others who you who you think aren't and and they're they're a natural at it so So,

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you know, I've got a new lady who started with us six months ago and she's just a machine, just goes at it all day,

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understands the industry inside and out and has that real client sort of client first focus, which is a big thing for us here.

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Yeah, that's really positive.

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And I think you need to have that drive to do the right thing for the client,

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that customer service, but also be quite process driven because it is very heavily processed.

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Oh, definitely.

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Yeah.

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If you can't get your head around that and following those processes with each shipment, you're going to be in trouble pretty early on.

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Yeah.

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And so is the business.

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At the end of the day, we're just providing a service to people that they can get from hundreds, if not thousands of other businesses.

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So you have to have some kind of point of difference.

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And that's difficult anyway, just within the nature of the...

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It's just a matter of really focusing on the client and what their needs are.

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Yeah and trying to ensure that you can deliver on those.

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Yeah, I think so.

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And being methodical and organized is really important as well.

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Yeah.

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Being on top of everything and making sure it is in order because if you're in a bit of, the industry is already chaotic.

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So if you add some chaos to it, it just gets...

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Well, that's right.

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And it's easy with the timeframes that you're working to, you know, if you're not on top of the whole process, I guess that's why things like CargoWise has its workflows and all of that type of thing in them built in.

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And that sort of provides that redundancy for where people might, you know, forget about a process or part of the shipment detail.

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So, yeah, it's hugely important.

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So when you left your last role, did you consider leaving the industry altogether?

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Yeah, I wasn't overly stressed about whether I stayed in the industry or not.

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You know, there's always new challenges out there.

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but this opportunity came up and it was too good to pass up, that's for sure.

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So there was no major desire to leave the industry,

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but there was certainly also nothing stopping going into another industry either.

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All right.

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So you were completely open to wherever you went.

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Yeah, definitely.

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That's good.

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Is there anything that freight has taught you about life in general?

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So you've got to be on time.

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Not really, nothing specific, mainly because it's a similar sort of thing to where I was before in the wholesale.

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So it's all about that timeframe and turnaround.

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And as I say, just being on top of your processes

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and having good systems in place to ensure that you're being thorough of what you do and providing great customer service.

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You know, to me, any business, it's about customer service, it's about building those relationships with clients and then backing that up with great support.

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And then you're on the path to being successful anyway.

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Yeah, great.

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So given your background was logistics, like similar to logistics, and you moved into freight forwarding, Do you think that it's an easy transition for people?

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I don't think it's super difficult if you have an understanding of how it all works, as I say.

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So my previous role was in importing and wholesaling marine goods.

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So, you know, we were buying and importing and warehousing and distributing goods.

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So you have an understanding of the industry.

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I think if you came from something completely foreign, I don't know what that might be.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it would pose more challenges that's for sure.

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Yeah, I mean I speak to a lot of candidates who are working in logistics and want to get into freight forwarding, what advice would you give them?

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Well I think if I was younger now and you were wanting to go down that path, you know it wouldn't hurt to do some of the industry

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courses etc at the freight forwarding courses just to get your chapter speed

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and have a better understanding of the industry so that at least

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if you're interviewing and you're talking to people or you have an understanding of how the processes work, certainly if you've had no exposure to it at all.

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As I say, there's other roles and cadetships like my son is doing, and they'll take you on with no necessary freight experience.

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But if you've got other tertiary background behind you, that certainly would help as well.

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Yeah.

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Do you think the courses are beneficial in learning things like the acronyms that are quite frequently used?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I would think so for sure.

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So I mean thinking about the courses that are available there's the customs brokers course is there a forwarding one?

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Yes there's some through look

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and I haven't been involved with those in recent times in

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the role we're doing now it's slightly different as to say

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but there are some through the freight forwarders federation yeah they

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have industry very industry specific courses um I think it's I can't remember the exact name of the course

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but it's a freight freight forwarding, um, course sort of starting from zero and there's different levels of it as well.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, at the moment with your current structure, it wouldn't be terribly easy to support someone learning because you're already so busy.

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But if we brought on, it would be difficult for us to bring on someone who has no experience at all.

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Yeah.

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Just because there's only, you know, there's only a few of us in our team as it is.

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So having that additional time to be able to train someone is not, you know, as if you were in a, you know, a larger, larger forwarder.

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They've obviously got the ability or the capacity to be able to train other people.

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Yeah, and their process is kind of leaner.

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So obviously when we employed the last lady who came on here, she's got 20 years of experience and we needed that.

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So, you know, you pay a premium for that, of course.

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Yeah.

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But there's a reason why you pay it.

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They can come in there, supportive of your clients and they understand the industry and they can get up and running straight away.

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Yeah.

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Obviously, that's not great if you're wanting to bring people into the industry, but there are other businesses who would be far better geared up for that.

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And look, it's not always the reality to bring someone in when you're already at capacity yourself.

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You need to train them and do the right thing by them.

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Yeah, there's different times.

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You know, the previous company, we would bring in people who had far less experience

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and you could train them up in that department

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if you had other people within that department who could help bring them up to speed.

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Yeah, not so much the case here, but that's fine.

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What's been your biggest challenge in freight?

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No, really.

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As I say, it was probably just learning it all, but I guess it's a little bit of the frustration of just the ebbs

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and flows of how things work like at the moment.

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All of a sudden, you know, the sea freight rates out of China, et cetera, have gone crazy for no real reason just

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because what seems like the shipping lines just want that to happen at the moment.

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The volumes don't really seem to back that up.

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But, you know, I'm just trying to explain that to clients

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when pricing sort of jumps all over the place is probably the most difficult thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, outside of that, it's not too bad.

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Yeah, that is probably one of the big things, isn't it?

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It's kind of not always stable.

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No, that's right.

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But, yeah, you know, COVID, et cetera, that was a real challenge, obviously.

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Pricing went through the roof, but it wasn't as though it was just us.

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It was everybody in the industry.

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So if a client went and price checked you against another provider, it was most likely going to be a very similar sort of scenario.

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So we even suggested to clients, you know, ones who we knew were only dealing with us, if they were questioning us about the pricing,

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we'll go and ask some of the forwarders for pricing and just see how it compares.

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no problems with that because we know we're trying to do the right thing by you um

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and just where the market is yeah that's exactly right everyone's

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going to feel it it's going to be across the board

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exactly and what do you do for i guess outside of work and in your normal time

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what does sean do and he's good yeah i'm a pretty mad golfer

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so i spend a fair bit of time golfing and things like that, playing other sports, tennis and whatnot.

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Do that through the week as well.

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So, yeah, it's not always easy to get the time to do all of those things, but that's fine.

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Especially golf.

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That's like a day trip.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But that is what it is.

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Yeah.

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Once you're into playing golf, it's hard to turn it off.

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You're addicted.

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I've heard that about it.

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Yeah.

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Did you go to the conference? Which conference is that?

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The one that was in May, I think, the Tasmanian IFCABA.

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Oh, no. Well, as I say, so we don't have any customers brokers, et cetera, here.

430

So that's the customers broking.

431

The one we used to attend the...

432

AFIN?

433

New South Wales.

434

Yeah, the customers brokers, golf days and things up here in Sydney

435

when they used to be on because we had brokers there.

436

We don't have any brokers here.

437

So it's not something that we're a part of anymore.

438

Oh, that's a shame.

439

You don't get to play golf.

440

Oh, that's good.

441

That's really good.

442

And what about, you know, there's, I guess it is, like I said, it is a stressful industry.

443

And, you know, we do tend to get in the job and just smash through the day.

444

How do you support your staff in ensuring that they're not going to have burnout or work too hard or?

445

Well, that's difficult.

446

I guess it's a matter of just managing their workloads and monitoring it.

447

So we have a lot of tools here where I can see how many emails they're receiving

448

and how many jobs they're booking, all of those types of things.

449

It's just a matter of managing that.

450

And it's also just working with them close day by day.

451

You can tell when people are starting to get stressed and not necessarily handling things well.

452

Over time, you sort of start to get a good handle on that.

453

And then it's just a matter of, you know, if the business is growing to a point where you need to put on more staff

454

or you need to do that to support the team.

455

Otherwise, you know, I certainly have seen it in businesses where they just want to just push people harder

456

and harder and harder.

457

And you tend to just end up losing good people that way.

458

Yeah, that's true.

459

Some people aren't even aware that they're experiencing stress.

460

So what are some of the signs that you think people should be mindful of when they are getting stressed?

461

Oh, well, I mean, in general, it's just, you know, short-temperedness, these sorts of things.

462

You can hear it the way that they might be talking to a client or, you know, you might see it in just terminology that's used in an email

463

if you're in CC and those emails and things like that.

464

And just in general, it's people's general demeanour.

465

It tends to surface, I find.

466

Not always you'll have people who sort of keep it all in

467

and don't show it all that well until it comes to a...

468

But I think it's just a matter of as managers and as leaders, you need to monitor how much you're expecting of people.

469

Do you think it's important to have like a balance in

470

the workplace where you do get an element of downtime or there's a bit of a mix up in your day?

471

I don't know, planning or?

472

Yeah, obviously.

473

Yes, if you can do it and depending on your business structure and things like that, it's not always super easy to have that,

474

especially in our industry where it's pretty much non-stop most of the time.

475

So, yeah, I guess it's probably not something that we've been fantastic at.

476

But as I say, I think it's just a matter of monitoring the workload

477

so people are feeling like the expectations are too high.

478

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

479

And is there anything, so where you're at now, they're a slightly different business model.

480

Is there something that they do that you think is really great

481

and you've never seen it done in a forwarder or anywhere else?

482

I think they're just very proactive as far as ensuring that staff feel like they're part of a team.

483

Obviously, as you say, this business where I am is different whereby we have our own cafe and things here, So lunch is fully provided every day.

484

You're not having to think about where you're going to get lunch or whatnot.

485

You just walk up as cooked meals every day here, which is highly unusual, but it's fantastic.

486

And just another stress thing that takes out of your mindset for the day.

487

That's always there.

488

We have regular, you know, we have a daily sort of huddle meeting every morning just to work through what people have on, which initially I wasn't 100% sure about.

489

But the good thing about it is that it just not forces you, but it pushes you to ensure that you have a structure to your day.

490

Okay, what am I going to achieve today?

491

And get things checked off that way.

492

And we have, you know, so I'll have a weekly one-to-one meeting with all of my staff and I do with my superiors as well.

493

Once again, it's not about anything serious.

494

It's just about how can we support, What, how's everything working for you?

495

Is there anything you need from us?

496

Any issues with clients or providers, et cetera, just gives you that opportunity and gives them an opportunity to run through things

497

that for whatever reason that might not have caused us otherwise, sorry.

498

Yeah, I really like that, actually.

499

I think that's really cool too,

500

especially the, I mean, the daily morning huddle is when you talk about things as a team,

501

you may not know something that's going on for someone else until you actually all get together and talk about it.

502

That's right.

503

And everyone learns from each other as well.

504

Yep.

505

So until you're kind of having those conversations and doing those things and preparing yourself for the day, that's a really, I think that's a really positive way to start the day.

506

Yeah, it is.

507

As I say, I hadn't done it before.

508

And when I started here and doing it, it was okay.

509

But now I find it, you know, it's quite beneficial.

510

It doesn't go for five, 10 minutes tops, but each one of us and all of my staff will put in into a,

511

we use a loop here, and we put it into a thing for the day as

512

part of the calendar as to what your goals are and tasks are for the day.

513

And if nothing else, it just formalizes that in your own mind that, yes, I do need to get these.

514

no one's sitting there and checking those tasks off have you done those tasks etc

515

but it just gives you that prompt to um formalize your day

516

and be ready to go yeah i think it's great

517

and i also like the idea of the one-on-one meetings like at all levels i think that's really positive too

518

because you know you get a chance to just sit down at a dedicated time

519

and talk to someone and there's a purpose for

520

that meeting otherwise not just talking around a coffee machine

521

or the water cooler or whatever it's a purpose set time to talk about things

522

and that's really important I like that as well

523

and you know I've been in situations where we just have a performance review once a year

524

and that's the only time you really get to talk

525

and they're quite you know lots of things have happened in

526

12 months you know that's exactly right it's it's um as I say once again it's not not overly stressful

527

or pressure there's there's none of that in any of those meetings.

528

We're just doing our sort of performance reviews for the year.

529

They're pretty straightforward as well, but it just gives people an opportunity to discuss things from their side.

530

You know, I would be surprised to hear

531

if anything came out in those that I hadn't already heard about because we have structured meetings.

532

As you say, in my previous role, did I work there 12 years?

533

I never had one performance review, no structured meetings of any sort in that time.

534

And from where I had come from previously, where I would do quarterly performance reviews for all of my staff, and I only had like 25 staff, it was a real changer.

535

And I don't think that's a good way to run a business at all.

536

No, it's not.

537

Doesn't give staff any sort of avenues for just discussing what's happening for them within the business.

538

Not necessarily the business, but how's it working for them.

539

Yeah, absolutely.

540

Yeah.

541

I first started in the industry, you know, you have your probation period, right?

542

So I took that quite seriously.

543

I thought, oh, wow, I've got to make it through this probation.

544

Otherwise, they're going to sack me.

545

Or a lot of things were going on in my head.

546

And I was quite young.

547

And I got to the three months and no one said anything to me.

548

Like no one said, oh, you've passed probation.

549

You're doing really well, blah, blah, blah.

550

So I would just, I was kind of left a bit like, oh, am I doing a good job?

551

What's happening here?

552

And I asked my boss at the time.

553

I said, oh, so I've passed probation.

554

What happens now?

555

And he's like, well, you're still here, aren't you?

556

So that's this?

557

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

558

It was like, yeah, that's it.

559

You passed.

560

You're still employed.

561

Yeah, it's sort of blissful ignorance, isn't it?

562

But you can't really, you know, to me, it's not a good way to run a business.

563

Yes, you can go to the extreme level of it as well.

564

But I think it's good just to have

565

that opportunity for staff to be able to have their own time with you or with whoever, but the leaders within the business too.

566

And that's oftentimes where as a leader too, you learn things that you're not normally hearing.

567

It's like when you go and, you know, you can be dealing with a client day in, day out via email or even via phone.

568

But when you sit down in front of them all of a sudden they start telling you things

569

that never came out over the phone or via email

570

and it's the same thing with stuff yeah it's so important

571

that that one one face-to-face in person obviously is better communication is

572

so different yeah exactly and it's great yeah no it's good we As I said, we don't spend a lot of time on it, but it's a regular thing every week.

573

Yeah, I think that's more important.

574

You don't need to spend a lot of time, but having something that's a regular thing that you...

575

And that routine is also important for people.

576

Having that consistent knowing that they're going to be able to have that conversation at some point during it...

577

That's right.

578

...is actually really...

579

It's beneficial.

580

It also gives the person a bit of security.

581

they can get some instant feedback on things they're not waiting

582

for 12 months to find out whether they've done a good job necessarily

583

or a bad job you know so that exactly that's a really positive thing

584

and it's a simple thing and because it's done

585

so frequently you probably got it down pat like the process like yep just happens uh you know

586

and we have staff within our department

587

that are we've got some in new zealand some here in sydney some in wa so it's all different time zones And,

588

you know, that's probably the biggest challenge rather than it actually happening.

589

But it's just having that structure in your day.

590

After a little while, it becomes just second nature to what you're doing.

591

Yeah, it totally does.

592

And it's great.

593

You don't think about it as much either if it's like structures there every single day.

594

It just happens.

595

That's right.

596

Yeah.

597

Yeah, I think that could be something that could be a lot of businesses could take that on board.

598

Yeah.

599

I think it's very positive.

600

And going back to your previous comment, you said you started in the warehouse and worked your way up.

601

Mm-hmm.

602

How did you manage to do that?

603

Like, not everyone can get into those senior roles.

604

Well, I don't really know.

605

It was just, I think at the end of the day, especially back then, it was easier.

606

I mean, I started working.

607

My first job was in 1988 in a warehouse in Sydney in the marine industry, as I said.

608

And, you know, it's just about working hard.

609

I think one of the biggest things for me was just never saying no to a request.

610

You know, boss or anyone would say, can someone do this or can someone work late or anyone want to work on a Saturday?

611

Yep, I can do that.

612

I mean, at that age, you don't have any real ties to anything and it was just working hard.

613

So then it was just a progression through to running the warehouse, then going into customer service, starting to deal with clients, then doing other areas within the business.

614

I took over doing all of our IT back in those days.

615

Oh, wow.

616

You know, so it's just, I think people and leaders of business can see the people in the business who are really prepared to have a go.

617

Yeah.

618

And obviously, you know, you've got to work hard, work smart, as smart as you can.

619

And that shows, you can tell, you know, the staff who are really prepared to put in.

620

Yeah.

621

Yeah.

622

I think working hard, yes.

623

But I also think that you need to be interested in learning

624

and understanding things more because you can be a really hard worker, but stay in the same role for a very long time.

625

And that's fine.

626

But unless you're constantly asking questions and wanting to do more and learn more about the business,

627

then you can remain stuck and still working hard.

628

Yeah, exactly.

629

You know, I would go and do, you know, back in the day, I would go and do Excel courses, Word courses.

630

I did NT administrator courses, you know, to be able to run our own network

631

because I could see people coming in and it was costing us a fortune to having, you know, in those days you'd have IT people who would come out to your business and,

632

you know, and do things all day long or I would sit beside them and watch them write reports, for example.

633

I would learn how to do it myself and go off

634

and start writing reports for the business myself because it would save us having, A, having to wait for someone else to do it, do it on the fly,

635

or B, just pick it all up and do it yourself.

636

Right.

637

So, as you say, it's just a matter of having that drive to learn.

638

It is, and also you were clearly commercially minded and thought about the business a bit like your own in some ways, I would say?

639

Yeah, I've always been like that.

640

I've never owned my own business.

641

I don't particularly want to own my own business, but I treat it like it's my own money.

642

If you're just willing to lose money on a job or just give away things here or there, I think it's just the wrong attitude to have.

643

If the company's making money, then that'll work well for everybody who works within the business.

644

So it's a matter of just having that drive to want to ensure

645

that the business is doing well and

646

that goes the same for your relationships with the clients you know we always want to make sure

647

that they're getting the best price that we know that's available and so

648

if they're doing well we're doing well everybody's doing well it just flows yeah i agree i think

649

that i had that mentality

650

when i was working for other companies as well you know i believe

651

that my efforts would benefit the company and then

652

that would benefit everyone and everyone be happy and the company would stay in business.

653

Yeah.

654

Yeah, that's right.

655

You want them to stay in business because they are your employer.

656

Yeah, exactly.

657

Doesn't always work out, I guess, but it's just about having that.

658

It's one thing that they really do push here.

659

It's that ownership mindset.

660

Treat the business as if it's your business, it's your money, it's your livelihood.

661

So I think if you can do that right through everything that you do, it flows through.

662

Yeah, I think it's also important in your personal life as well, that ownership just taking ownership of your own personal contributions

663

and behavior it's a really important skill to have yeah definitely well it flows through into everything

664

that you do um it's just a part of of who you are

665

and people can see that you know you think that people can't

666

or whatever but it's obvious to especially people who've got a bit more experience in life

667

and whatnot to to quickly see who people really are I guess um at the core

668

yeah that's exactly right you're right

669

so I'll just got one more question for you before we

670

finish up what kind of advice would you give to someone

671

who I guess wants to have a career in freight forwarding

672

I mean we've kind of discussed this a little bit so I guess what's I'll rephrase it

673

what's one piece of wisdom you would pass on to someone in this industry who wants to be successful?

674

I think it would just be just be willing to work hard and give it everything that you've got.

675

You know, if you want to go in half, you know, half baked, I guess it's going to be difficult because it's not that type of industry for most,

676

you know, for the most part of it.

677

Just be willing to get in and really give it a go.

678

Learn as much as you can.

679

Certainly expand your knowledge into other areas that you can bring into, be it AI or whatever the case might be now.

680

Certainly learning all those, you know, Microsoft Office type products and knowing them really well can help you.

681

It certainly helped me and just be willing to work.

682

Yeah, it is a very, very, very, yeah, you do need to work hard in this industry.

683

But I think also, you know, it can cause a little bit of burnout in people

684

if they do just work hard and not actually sit back

685

and look at you know the level of stress

686

or how they're handling it and we don't always ask for help

687

when we're no that's right stress

688

and that's why i say that's where having the avenues

689

that we have here um being able to meet with people on a regular basis

690

and talk about things openly that can really help oftentimes it's the fact

691

that you've got things bottled up that is is more of a pressure um yeah pressure um

692

yeah pressure cooker um than than other things yeah and

693

and i guess it's just a matter of being able to try

694

and switch off when you're not working you know as i say it's not always easy

695

but just having things outside of work that give you focus as well yeah being the key for me whether it's family,

696

friends and other hobbies and things that you do.

697

It's fine.

698

That's super important no matter where you're working.

699

I agree.

700

And I think you do need to have a little bit

701

of a distraction away from work to balance out the stress of work.

702

Yeah.

703

Because family life also can be quite stressful.

704

Like if you've got little kids and you're both working and, you know, that can be really stressful, then you've got a stressful job and you've got no way to escape.

705

Exactly.

706

Yeah.

707

It seems like a never-ending cycle, that's for sure.

708

Yeah, I know.

709

I was only thinking about the work stress the other day.

710

I tend to get to a Sunday afternoon and start to feel a little bit anxious.

711

And I was like, what is this feeling that I'm feeling quite consistently on a Sunday?

712

And I did realize it was work-related.

713

And I was like, I think I need to do something about this

714

So I'm not just spending all day Sunday stressing out about the week ahead of me.

715

Week ahead, yeah.

716

Yeah.

717

Yeah, I think that's a lot certainly for me here.

718

I tend to, if I have a little bit of time on the weekend or whatever, I'll do a little bit of catch up so that when I get into work on Monday morning, I'm not already starting behind,

719

which is not necessarily great, but I certainly do that.

720

yeah no i've i've i think i have a internal struggle with doing

721

that because i'm like no you can't don't

722

that you need to yeah there's days where i'll i just i'll just

723

if i've got things on i certainly won't do it you know

724

but if i have a bit of spare time

725

and i think okay i'll you know i've got a big tender

726

that i'm wanting to get finished or

727

or whatever the case might be i'll just do a little bit of work here

728

and then that takes that pressure off you for the week ahead You're not walking into work and thinking, you know, I'm already five hours behind or whatever.

729

Yeah.

730

And it just sets you up for the week.

731

But hopefully every week's not like that.

732

Yeah, that's true.

733

Well, it kind of has been, but I decided to just do something that doesn't involve any kind of thinking on a Sunday.

734

So I just get completely distracted by watching a movie or doing something that,

735

you know, it doesn't require any brain work.

736

Yeah, that's right.

737

Just a bit of dumbing out in the evening.

738

Exactly.

739

Well, I can relax.

740

Yeah.

741

No, it is.

742

No, that's good.

743

It is a, I think it's important in every job to balance it out.

744

Everyone has stress in their lives and stress in their jobs.

745

And we live in a very fast-paced world that we are constantly stimulated by phones, TVs, everything.

746

So, yeah, it's really important.

747

Yeah, it's difficult to switch off when it's just there all the time.

748

Yeah, I'm not sure that it's a great thing.

749

But anyway, it is part of our lives now.

750

Yeah, that's probably why golf is good because you actually get taken away for a certain period of time.

751

Exactly.

752

It's not things that you're doing for like 20 minutes.

753

no you're not looking at your phone every minute you're not

754

doing any of those things you're just concentrating on the people around you

755

and what you're doing and you can really switch off yeah yeah

756

that would be good and you're actually outdoors yeah that's right yeah exactly

757

which is really nice yeah that's a good distraction that's for sure awesome well thank you

758

so much for joining me it's been lovely talking to you

759

no problem thank you for having me yeah we'll just see how this goes.

760

Nice day.

761

Thanks, you too.

762

Thank you for listening to this episode of Freight Unpacked.

763

My conversation with Sean is a great reminder that success in freight isn't just about systems and processes.

764

It's about people, relationships, and a willingness to keep learning.

765

If you enjoyed this episode, I'd really appreciate it if you could follow the podcast and leave a review.

766

It helps more people discover the conversations we're having about the people behind Australia's freight and logistics industry.

767

Thanks for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode of Freight Unpacked.

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