Pratique du Shadowing: Change Management, HRM and what you need to know - Apprendre l'anglais à l'oral avec YouTube

In this episode, we're going to talk about HR and change management.

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In this episode, we're going to talk about HR and change management.

I know a few HR professionals who are passionate about this,

but why and why does that passion matter?

What is that passion about?

That's coming up now.

Hi there, I'm Andrea Adams,

the host of HR Shop Talk.

On the show, you get expert insight into HR.

I encourage you to subscribe to the show or the podcast to keep learning from my guests.

Today, my guest is Melanie Peacock.

Melanie is an HR professor,

an HR consultant, a keynote speaker,

and recently she's become a fellow with CPHR Alberta.

I'm excited to have her.

Hi, Melanie, how are you?

Hi, Andrea.

I'm great, thanks.

Excited to be here.

Thank you for today.

Yeah, thank you for coming on.

And if it's even half as good as the last one, it'll be amazing.

Okay, Okay, so we're going to talk about change management though now.

So can you talk in a general sense about HR's role in change management?

So first of all, this is the time where we should hear,

actually be able to hear it.

It should be palpable, the collective eye rolling of the audience.

Like what?

We're going to talk about change management?

Like really?

Aren't there enough books out there about it?

Aren't there enough podcasts?

Aren't there enough like little articles I can read? like wow

we never change talking about change oh yeah let's let's get

that elephant in the room out there

or as i like to say the peacock in the room

it's out there it's spreading its fingers feathers we're proud spoiler

alert this is why we need to talk about it

so please don't turn off the the channel as hr professionals

when it comes to change management we are given lots of responsibility.

We're held accountable for many,

many parts of change management and we are given zero authority.

This is the difference.

This is why when you pick up all these change management textbooks

and they say do this and do this and you read that and go that's nice but I can't do that.

I'm not a leader, at least not entitled, not the capital L.

You are a leader by the way,

small leadership but that kind of leadership particularly during times of change management require a very distinct

and differentiated strategy and different competencies

and resources that's why we need to have this conversation

so we have no authority in you know over the elements of change management

so then what are what are we supposed to do we are supposed to guide influence

convince impact notice i'm choosing these words very carefully

and they are powerful words and let me tell you

when done correctly hr professionals will do all of this

and more we will be really able to help fulfill an organization and people's potential during times of change.

We're also helping keeping the calm.

We're also helping create the storm.

Boy, what a paradox.

I could chat more about that.

But with all of those things,

that's what will make change successful.

That impact, that influence, the guiding,

the small leadership that we do,

it's just amazing to me and so powerful.

Okay, so I have a couple questions arising out of that.

The first one is, well,

okay, we have to talk about that paradox of,

you know, creating calm and creating the storm.

Okay, so tell me about that.

Okay, so I'm going to reverse it if I may.

Talk about reverse creating the storm first.

So for change to effectively happen,

we have to increase dissatisfaction with the status quo.

What?

Did she just say we have to increase dissatisfaction?

We have to make people unhappy?

And now you'll see why I'm in HR and not marketing.

That would be quite the campaign, right?

Making people unhappy since 1971.

Yay!

Sign me up!

But we need to, this is creating the storm.

We need to show people palpably in non-threatening,

non-harsh or hostile ways why the current situation is no longer valid or realistic or can continue.

That's increasing dissatisfaction with the status quo.

And in doing that, we're creating a storm.

The other part of creating the storm is we have to listen to people's concerns.

I've worked with so many people that I walk in and they'll say,

this change is going great.

I'm so excited.

And I'll say, wonderful.

How do you know it's going great?

nobody's complaining i'm hearing nothing and i'm like egads

that is the kiss of death you're hearing nothing it doesn't mean it's going well in fact getting

that negative feedback getting those concerns getting those points of resistance

out into the open is part of creating the storm

and often that will be hr's role we're the ones

that have the contacts we're the ones who are pervasive to access with people across the organization.

We have this way access,

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this way access, you know, vertically and horizontally.

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So we'll create the storm by bringing some troubling things to the surface,

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which can then get resolved.

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Right?

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So that's part of creating the storm.

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We resolve the storm by all those things,

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by the appropriate communication, by making sure that people understand what's the vision for this change.

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You might not be the ones communicating it,

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but we would ask questions to those that do the communication.

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So we provide them with the resources.

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We've got them to ruminate and think and ponder.

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Oh, maybe I should consider that.

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Oh, maybe I need to tell people that.

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If we ask the right questions to those that are creating the vision and sharing the vision,

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that's where we can calm the storm.

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So in doing some research for this episode,

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you, I discovered and you told me about it,

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that you've written a book of sorts,

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but you also within that wrote about practical tools to help HR manage change.

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Can you tell us about some of the most important tools?

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Thank you, Andrea.

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So yeah, this shameless self-promotion,

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it's available through business experts,

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press and it's called the HR Professionals Guide to Change Management.

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It's actually a short little short little booklet.

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Easy read but it walks you through practical steps to do exactly some of that creating the storm,

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welding the storm.

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So there is an actual formula that's been well researched

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and used by HR professionals during times of change and wow first of all let's pause for a minute

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because it's so counterintuitive.

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Did she just say, let's use a formula to deal with it?

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Yeah, right.

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That's not very humane.

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That's not a good human resource professional.

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Since then do we have to do math?

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Math, not math.

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Let's say, well, get your abacus out

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and no. The formula is exactly doing some of what I've shared with you and I'm going to elaborate on.

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One, making sure that the vision is well articulated.

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So you're saying, I have no authority.

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How do I do?

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Those that are sharing the vision,

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again, you're asking them the questions,

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you're giving them the tools,

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you're giving them the feedback, diplomatic right ways.

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You're finding other ways through effective change agents to make sure that that vision is shared.

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You're making sure that people understand why the current situation doesn't work.

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Back to that increasing the dissatisfaction with the status quo,

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which also helps people understand the whiffums,

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the what's in it for me.

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As an HR professional, part of that formula is making sure that as things progress, they're acknowledged.

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Acknowledging and celebrating the steps along the way is critical.

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that change momentum, maintaining that drive forward.

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Now I'm not talking about a ticker tape parade after every milestone is achieved.

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It can be something as simple as a conversation.

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It can be something as simple as posting data and sharing data.

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Look what we've achieved.

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It can be as simple as ordering a cake,

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but celebrating and acknowledging steps along the way is critical.

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All of those things, according to the formula,

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need to outpower or be greater than points of resistance.

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So here's another way that HR people add great value during times of change.

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We are the ones that can often best understand the points of resistance,

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and they tend to be for people core, personal, or intellectual.

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Core, I don't trust it.

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Personal, I don't like it.

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Intellectual, I don't understand it.

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And those can overlap and start to mesh together.

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But as HR professionals, we should be distancing ourselves enough while we're still ensconced in it.

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Talking about a paradox, we're living in those two continuums.

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But to understand where those points of resistance are

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and how we can address this and help those that are actually leading the change address this.

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If you found this interesting,

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subscribe to see all the episodes and comment.

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Today's question is about the storm Melanie was talking about.

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Have you ever been part of creating the storm in a practical and not threatening kind of way?

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Tell us about how you went and about and did that in the comment section.

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So I wanted to just dwell on those qualities you were talking about with respect to resistance,

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that it's core, personal, and intellectual.

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I feel like I've read a few change management books and I've never seen it laid out that way,

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but it makes so much sense.

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So how do we deal with those things?

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How do you incorporate that?

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You know, when we look at intellectual,

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personal core points of resistance,

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ultimately change often comes down to people feel that they're losing something.

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They're losing power.

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They're losing expertise.

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They're losing connections.

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They're losing resources.

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They're losing legitimate authority.

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So we have to think about the sense of loss under intellectual,

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personal, and core points of resistance.

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And then how do we negate that?

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And if it's not possible to negate it,

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how do we be honest about it and minimize it?

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Because sometimes there will be some loss.

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But I'll argue, and I'll put forth,

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and this is great for people listening in to ruminate on,

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what are people gaining?

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And why can we not spend a little bit of time on that?

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Let's think about the outcome,

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the positives, but let's not ignore the potential losses.

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So here's something else that's going to be a little bit,

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I hope people go, hmm,

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did she just say that?

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We should spend time during change management talking about what people will lose.

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Whoa, wait a second.

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Now that's not, whoa, whoa,

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whoa, whoa, no, no, no,

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no, no, no, we don't do that.

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We talk about everything that's great and what's going to happen and how wonderful it's going to be.

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Sure, and what that does,

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I like to call that cheerleading.

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what

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that does is it makes us seem out of it it

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makes us sincere it makes us seem like we don't care about people

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and we only care about the output when you balance the approach

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and say look these are potential things that could happen

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and we are aware of potential concerns

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and this is how we're going to do our best to minimize

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or mitigate them and we can't be aware of everything

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and this how we're creating communication channels so you can share other concerns or points of resistance with us.

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Yeah, I love the idea.

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It doesn't happen very often, does it?

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No, no it does not.

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And I love the idea of those conversations,

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you know, just can you imagine the reaction you'd get if you'd like,

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what do you think you're going,

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what are you losing out of this?

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Mind's exploding.

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Yeah, it's like wow wait a second somebody actually cares about what I have to think about this

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and oh I never even thought about that some people say

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that why do you want people to think about

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that they might not have even they've thought about it on some level they've thought about it no

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even if they don't know and it's better to illuminate it elevate it bring it to the surface

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deal with it head on and be truthful about it here's something

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that seems so simple

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but wow I've experienced this many times with environments I've worked in you're going to lose your office space even

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if we're moving to the what you think who cares you move to another office people go crazy over

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that kind of stuff so address it be honest be forthright you know

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when you're empathetic and honest during times of change

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and you encourage again this is what hr professionals could do encourage those leading

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and guiding the change to do those and to answer those tough questions,

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it makes for things rolling out so much smoother.

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The other thing I find that HR professionals,

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when you ask those that are leading and guiding change the tough questions,

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sometimes they don't have the answers.

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And I've worked in situations where the leaders can't give me the answers.

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But then what happens is they'll often go,

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wow, I don't know, or I haven't thought about that,

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or I'm not sure.

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Maybe now is not the right time for the change.

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Or maybe we need to do it in a phase.

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They come to the realization almost themselves through the right impact, influence, guidance, right?

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Those tools that an HR professional uses.

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I don't know where I saw this,

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but I know it comes from you.

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Is that you said somewhere along the lines,

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either in your booklet or when we were talking,

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that we need to consider our own reaction to change.

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Why?

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Like, what difference does that make?

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Yeah, we did have that conversation, Andrea.

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Yeah.

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And we have to think about the way we act and interact with other people in times of change.

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change because as HR people,

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while we might not have authority,

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we are showing people, we're role modeling, we're signaling.

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And if we're saying this is really important,

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and you've got your arms crossed and you're twitching and you're rolling your eyes,

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if you can't think about and not,

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you don't have that self-awareness of how you're coming across to other people and the influence you're having during times of change,

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you're doing the process a great detriment the other thing too is it's important to understand

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and i'm still it's an evolving process you know i'm going

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to be the last person to say i'm great at this i'm still learning i'm still evolving

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which is great lifelong learning right you know to react

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when people give you not so good news

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or they give you points of resistance to not go are

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you kidding me are you you know you have to be

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okay let me pause let me listen to what they're saying how i'm acting

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and interacting with them is going to set the grounds for this ongoing illumination of points of resistance.

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But here's the rub, not just now, but going forward.

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If HR professionals come across as disingenuous,

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as uninformed, as unempathetic during a point of change,

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going forward, there'll be of little value to an organization.

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employees and the leaders will remember how you were during that change process and that transition.

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And if you couldn't be valued and respected and turned to as a great resource,

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that's not going to happen going forward.

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So final question.

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If someone in HR wants to get more involved in change management,

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what do you recommend?

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You haven't even mentioned like things like ProSci yet.

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I'm familiar with ProSci, I'm familiar with some other programs actually.

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There's many good ones that you can look up and choose what works best for you.

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So I'm going to be a little facetious or a little tongue in cheek in how I answer that terrific question.

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How do you get involved in change management as an HR professional?

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You show up for work

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because I'm going to say everything we do has an element of change to it as HR professionals.

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So think about, you know,

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what skills and the influence,

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how are you creating the storm in non-hostile, non-dramatic ways?

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How are you quelling the storm?

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You know, that's how we as HR professionals, you can read.

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Of course, I want people to read.

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That's why I wrote the book as a resource.

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I love it.

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And I love reading and but you pick and choose the resources

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that make sense for you and your organization

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and your hr practice your style so that you're genuine

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and authentic and then you do it it's one of those things

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that you need to practice change management is very cerebral

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but it's very tapped up you can only think about it for

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so long and then you have to do it

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and i'm really just i'm going to put forth

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that we as HR professionals are constantly involved in change management because we're constantly bringing forth new amendments,

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ideas, policies, guidelines, procedures, ways of work.

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It's true, it's true.

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It's exciting.

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It is.

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Some of what comes to mind for me is that,

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or at least in my case,

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I felt more often like I was quelling the storm than creating the storm.

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There'll be a different, that'll be something I'll ruminate on this on afterward.

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Thanks, Melanie.

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Well, that was such a refreshing take on change management for HR.

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I did another episode with Melanie and that episode is right here.

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Thanks for watching and see you next time.

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Pratique du Shadowing: Change Management, HRM and what you need to know - Apprendre l'anglais à l'oral avec YouTube

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Why practice speaking with this video?

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Qu'est-ce que la technique du Shadowing ?