Pratique du Shadowing: Psychological Mindset Shift from Reactive to Proactive Customer Success with Rachel Provan - Apprendre l'anglais à l'oral avec la vidéo
Choisissez un mode d'entraînement
Chaque mode ouvre une salle d'entraînement en plein écran.
694 phrases
Si les phrases sont trop courtes ou trop longues, cliquez sur Edit pour les ajuster.
1
Hello, everyone.
2
I'm your host, Anika Zuber, and welcome back to the next episode of the Customer Success Pro podcast.
3
I'm a customer success executive leader, award -winning CS strategist, CS coach, and customer success fanatic.
4
I help CS leaders and CSMs build and scale world -class CS processes and teams.
5
I'm a strong believer that customer success is not a destination, but a journey.
6
And it can be a tough journey, but don't worry, I'm here to help.
7
This podcast was created to help make your CS journey a little bit easier to navigate.
8
Join me every month on this podcast where we will dive into the hottest topics in CS,
9
the newest strategies, and the best practices in customer success so you can make your CS journey a little bit easier.
10
Make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts so
11
that you can continue to learn on this CS journey that we are on together.
12
Welcome to the podcast.
13
Today, I am speaking with Rachel Provan, who is a top 25 CS influencer and coach for customer success leaders.
14
She has over 17 years of experience in customer success leadership building
15
and scaling CS departments from startups to large corporations with a passion for fusing psychology with business strategy and leadership techniques,
16
Rachel teaches new CS leaders to build and scale revenue -generating customer success departments.
17
Her flagship course, the CS Leadership Academy, helps former CSMs nail their transition to accomplish CS leaders.
18
With all of Rachel's experience in studying psychology and working with CS leaders, today we are going to talk about mindset shifts and how, as a customer success pro,
19
you can shift your ways of working from reactive to proactive.
20
Let's talk to Rachel all about shifting your mindset into proactive ways of working.
21
Welcome, Rachel, to the podcast.
22
You are my very first guest on my new podcast, and I'm so honored and excited to have you here with us today.
23
But before we get into today's topic, I would love to let our listeners know who you are, what it is you're up to, what is proven success, and what's your role there?
24
Tell us a bit more about you.
25
Oh, my goodness.
26
Well, first of all, thank you so much for letting me be your first guest.
27
That really is such an honor.
28
And I'm fully aware of that because I just started a podcast and I'm like trying to figure out my first guest.
29
So totally get it.
30
But yeah, I mean, I've been in customer success for 18 years now.
31
I keep saying 17.
32
I'm like, no, it's a new year.
33
It's 18, Rach.
34
um and yeah i've done everything from uh from seed stage to fortune 500 companies
35
and everything in between um you know everything but two years of
36
that was in leadership and you know just built cs departments
37
and scaled them over and over um
38
which does not mean i was good at it at the
39
beginning by the way um i got better over time anyone is anyone good at cs
40
when they start that's the thing uh so i'd been in it so long and after a while i started realizing
41
you know one of my favorite things to do was lead my team
42
and help them grow professionally
43
and i just kept churning out what i called like mini
44
directors i would create you know managers of customer success
45
and directors and they would go on and they would even surpass me
46
and go to like vp stuff i did a vp job once
47
but i was like i i'm kind of good at like helping these people level up, helping them with their confidence, helping them learn what they need to know.
48
And I mean, this took me forever to learn all this stuff.
49
And they're like getting the short version.
50
And I loved it.
51
But at a certain point, I was just thinking to myself, you know, it was really a struggle, leadership for me.
52
And there was a lot of self -doubt.
53
And I made a lot of mistakes that I didn't necessarily have to make if someone would have just told me.
54
Like, Like a lot of these things were pretty straightforward if I just had a reference point.
55
So I created ProVan Success,
56
which is customer success leadership coaching for customer success leaders in their first five years of leadership, mainly.
57
I mean, I'll work with anyone, but that tends to be the majority of the people I work with.
58
So I do a little bit of one -on -one, but these days I'm mostly doing a cohort -based coaching where they can learn online on videos
59
and then get coached weekly by me with a community of fellow CS leaders that they also learn from.
60
They learn as much from each other as they do from me.
61
But I absolutely love it.
62
You know, we teach them not just the strategy of how to build and scale, but also the mindset stuff you need, the team leadership stuff you need,
63
how to work with other departments so that you can actually get something done.
64
Which is so important and something that you don't learn in school.
65
And it's not something that you can pick up just naturally.
66
It is something that you have to be guided and something
67
that someone else has gone through would then help you based on their experience.
68
And again, experience can't be like taught in school.
69
It's something that we have to learn on the job.
70
And I'm guessing your courses get you there a lot faster through the experience that you've had.
71
Yeah, definitely.
72
And I mean, it's not just here's what I did.
73
Go do it.
74
Here's what I learned here's my wisdom.
75
We, I have them do kind of breakout rooms and we do things like understanding the KPIs of other departments.
76
You know, we're going to take a few minutes
77
and we're going to write down what those are and see how CS aligns with those. And like, you're going to come up with something you're going to talk
78
to about those other inter -department leaders about how CS can help their department without doing extra work.
79
So they, they're given a chance to work on those things
80
and think about those things before it smacks them in the face.
81
Like, oh, I have all these great ideas, all these great plans, and no one's letting me do them.
82
Yeah.
83
Yeah.
84
So you went from being an executive leader working in companies, startups, scale -ups, big organizations,
85
like you just said, and then you decided to go totally off script and decide to start your own business, which is a huge accomplishment
86
because I think a lot of people like the idea of I want to be my own boss.
87
I want to start working for myself, but that's no easy feat and you've gone ahead and done it
88
and you've been doing it for a few years now under Probe and Success.
89
So huge congratulations on that.
90
But you also have a team, a company.
91
What are your ambitions with being a CEO of your own business now?
92
Yeah.
93
You know, it's so funny.
94
It keeps evolving because I never, I say I never wanted to own a business and yet I've had several,
95
Like from when I, like my first business was when I was 12 and it was like a legit catering business
96
that I was doing like parties of 50.
97
So I don't know where I come up with like, but I like stability, right?
98
I like knowing where my next paycheck's gonna come from.
99
Oh no, where did like entrepreneurship come from if you like stability?
100
And I can tell you in that sense, entrepreneurship, if I'm very honest, came from how the tech economy has been the past couple of years, where I had to say to myself,
101
well, this isn't a predictable paycheck either.
102
You know, I was working in startups.
103
They kept, you know, closing or I would, you know, move from one to the next because it was like a toxic environment or, and I was like, honestly,
104
I'm moving around so much that this is not as steady a paycheck
105
and it's not as predictable as I'm really giving it credit for.
106
and I don't really have that much control over what I do,
107
whether I can be successful because in certain situations, you're just not set up for success.
108
A lot of them, there are things you can do and that's some of the things I teach, but there are, and people can tell you in my course, there are some places where I'm just like, that's a non -starter.
109
And I got to the point where it was like, I was working so hard.
110
And I think this has been a symptom of CS the last few years where it's do everything
111
but accomplish nothing yeah oh man I'm already like I'm nodding along feeling all the pain points
112
that you're just describing
113
because as a CS leader it's just yeah we're really in the thick of things these years yeah
114
so I was thinking to myself
115
if I'm going to be killing myself with how much I'm
116
working I want to at least have it make sense
117
and know that like I think this is the right thing to be doing I think this is the right direction.
118
And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong on my own terms.
119
I'm not just telling people like, look, I'm showing you how this is not going to work.
120
And then with them being like, no, do it anyway.
121
And she's like, okay.
122
Okay.
123
Um, I, that just became too frustrating.
124
But the thing is like, I didn't even really, I fell into it.
125
Like I do so many things.
126
Like I fell into CS um but I I was looking for a new position
127
but I was like I'm gonna be
128
so picky this time like I know the red flags I know what to watch for
129
and it was you know 2021
130
when people you know hiring boom you know early 2022 you know people were still like hiring like crazy um
131
and I was like I can be picky like I've got
132
tons of experience I've gotten online presence like Like people are offering me jobs.
133
And I found myself just saying like, nope, no, you know, and I'm, you know, getting these offers.
134
I was like, and it occurred to me, I was like, something is steering me in another direction.
135
You know, like I keep doing this and I keep, I love being a CS leader, but I keep getting walloped and I keep getting opportunities to do it again.
136
And I keep seeing these red flags and it's waving me in another direction.
137
So I need to make some money right now.
138
I'm going to offer to coach some people because You know,
139
I'd done it for money once somebody messaged me on LinkedIn and was like, hey, do you do coaching?
140
And I was like, yes.
141
What's your rates?
142
Hold on, let me Google that.
143
That would be $2 .50 an hour back then.
144
And so I did that once and it worked out really well.
145
And I was like, all right, let's just see if people are into this.
146
Because I was like, well, I've got no money coming in.
147
So I need to do something at all times.
148
I cannot sit around and do nothing.
149
So I bought a course.
150
I'm a course junkie, bought a course on how to like get your first clients.
151
And, you know, that was my first real investment in my own, you know, development, career development.
152
And it was like 3K.
153
And I remember like truly almost throwing up as I was buying this with no income coming in.
154
And like, I told my husband about it and I was like, he's going to kill me.
155
This isn't going to work amazing.
156
But you made a very solid investment by the sounds of it.
157
3K and...
158
I made it back in two months.
159
Yeah.
160
I made it back in two months.
161
The course was three months.
162
I made it back in two.
163
And that was something where I discovered like, oh, that's what they mean by an investment.
164
I do get this back and more.
165
Yeah, definitely.
166
Yeah.
167
So that's when I started doing that kind of thing more often.
168
And that's what made me comfortable asking for money because initially that gave me the icks and I was very uncomfortable.
169
But when I realized like, look, look at what this did for me, look at if people give me money, I actually have the time to invest,
170
to give them all my focus and give them what they need to then go out and make more, to succeed better, to not lose their goddamn minds.
171
Which I think we're going to dive in deeper in the
172
topic around basically how the human psychology really affects customer success
173
and how we can go from reactive to proactive customer success with a mindset shift, which I know you discuss in your course as well.
174
It's one of the pieces of content that you discuss and you share on LinkedIn.
175
And then I know that you discuss on your own podcast as well.
176
But super curious, you mentioned you fell into customer success.
177
I want to dive in deeper there.
178
What inspired you then to actually work in customer success if you fell into it?
179
It's like, did any, well, I guess now these days people are like, oh, I want to be in customer success
180
but like any of us who were you know kind of around yeah it wasn't the name wasn't around
181
when i started in cs i mean i was an actor uh
182
and i mainly did um like small independent films
183
that went to like arty festivals a little bit of tv a little bit of plays um
184
but i was tired of waitressing i was like i don't
185
want to be smelly at the end of the day
186
and tired and you know grumpy
187
so i was like maybe i can do an office job i'll do some temp work
188
and i got assigned to this place um
189
that was at the time called vintage filings
190
and i you know i was killing it a data entry uh
191
so they hired me and they just kept promoting me basically
192
and this place allowed me uh they're like look we we like your work
193
so much we'll allow you to like fly off do a movie for a month
194
and come back oh nice yeah like obviously they didn't pay me during that but it's like, yeah, your job will be here.
195
And then I was like, yes, please.
196
So, and I even got to keep my health insurance.
197
So I was going to be loyal to that.
198
And then by like 27, 28, when I was there a number of years, by like 27, 28, I was just like,
199
I'd been acting for over a decade at that point.
200
And I it's just very demoralizing the way people talk to you about your body.
201
Like, I mean, at 100 pounds, I was asked to lose 10.
202
Oh, my gosh.
203
Yeah.
204
Yeah.
205
They're like, well, you're going to look fat next to her.
206
It's like, uh -huh.
207
God, I thought modeling was bad, but acting sounds just brutally bad, too.
208
Bad.
209
And you're just not treated like a human.
210
And like at 27, 28, honestly, at least at that point as a woman, like if you haven't made it, you know?
211
Yeah, you can still do stage, but you're not, you're not making any real money.
212
Yeah.
213
I was like, you know, I want a little bit more of a normal, predictable life.
214
I'm happy at this company.
215
I have friends.
216
I'm doing well.
217
Like, let's just sink in here, see what happens.
218
Like maybe I'll go back to school and become a psychologist.
219
Right.
220
Cause I double majored in that.
221
And I've been studying that longer than CS even just like my whole life.
222
um but then i found out what you make as a psychologist i was like
223
but i'm making more than that now and i'm like 27
224
and they're like yeah so you know you could go to medical school you know
225
and then you could be a psychiatrist to make real money
226
and i was like i faint at the sight of blood
227
i don't think that's going to work out for me um
228
so i was just like i guess i'm figuring it out here.
229
What a unique story.
230
I know it's weird.
231
I love that.
232
Like you were an actress that was also a waitress that studied psychology.
233
And now you've come like full circle of like, I worked in tech.
234
Well, you still work in tech, I guess, technically.
235
Technically.
236
Technically, you still work in tech, but you have now leveraged a lot of your previous experience to now build these courses,
237
coach people, and really speak about psychology in the day -to -day life of a CSM
238
and how the effects of how our mind works really can shift the way you work day to day, which I know is something you cover in detail in your course as well with CSLA.
239
But I think a lot of people who are listening to this podcast
240
and who are working in customer success today are probably struggling with, I have a million things on my to -do list.
241
My calendar just keeps running over.
242
I have meeting after meeting, back -to -back calls.
243
I just cannot seem to go from reactive
244
and like just dealing with inbox fire and dumpster fires
245
when it comes to clients to being truly proactive and being
246
that consultative customer success manager that I think everyone is ideally that's like the ideal role
247
that everybody wants to be in
248
but we know we deal with dumpster fires every single day
249
so in your opinion like with CS being so much in mindset
250
and a lot of teams work in like support driven or reactive modes, what kind of mindset shift should a CSM
251
or CS professional really focus on to move from that reactive state into that proactive approach that we hope to be in?
252
Great question.
253
And, you know, some of that is to do with, you know, kind of what stage of maturity you're at in customer success.
254
Like you're never going move to fully proactive until you're using data
255
and tools and you have your personas
256
and your use cases like those are kind of the personas
257
and use cases are table stakes and then you move on to like data
258
and tools and that's where you start to get ahead of it
259
because you're able to see trends
260
when everything is siloed all over the place you can't possibly
261
and it is going to keep you reactive
262
because it takes you forever to do anything to see one thing about a client
263
but in terms of I always like to look at it
264
as what can I do in my situation right now what do I have control over um
265
and you know I mainly work with leaders
266
but it I work with I have worked with CSMs as well
267
and I always like to say you can lead from wherever
268
you are it doesn't matter what your title is you can
269
choose like all right this is what needs to happen I'm going to take control of this and do the right thing.
270
And it doesn't mean you disregard everybody else.
271
It means you learn to work with them.
272
You do what's right for the collective is really, you know, if you find something that works really great, you don't just keep it to yourself.
273
You share it to the team.
274
You help move everybody forward is really what leadership is about to me.
275
And how about for CS leaders then?
276
Because you're working with CS leaders every day.
277
What kind of mindset shift should they be focusing on to help their teams?
278
The CSMs have to be reactive to some degree because you're in the weeds, right?
279
I do think there's a sense of urgency that isn't necessarily accurate, you know, that isn't necessarily properly calibrated.
280
You know, people get so anxious and it's like, this customer's upset.
281
Like, I'm sorry I interrupted you, but this customer's upset.
282
It's like, that's not an emergency.
283
Like no one is bleeding out on a table we are in customer success no
284
but really no one's dying here exactly like there are situations where it's like okay no
285
and there are even situations in tech where it's like okay
286
our product is down everyone's freaking out it's like yes please interrupt me for
287
that but someone's upset they'll still be upset in a half an hour an hour
288
when i finish what i need to do exactly but
289
that again that's something that is a top -down thing that you that you set that tone for your team, you know, if your leader is like, oh, my God, what are you doing about it?
290
Then, of course, you're going to be like that.
291
And it's not productive for anyone.
292
But what I suggest, you know, my juicy tip that I give to everyone, whether it's a CS leader or a CSM and whoever you are,
293
you need to kind of clear this with whoever you're reporting to.
294
I feel like it's you have to you have to sort of ask permission less as a leader
295
and have it be more like, so here's how I work.
296
Um, but I'm a big believer in setting aside one hour every day, put it on your calendar,
297
mark it as a meeting and attend it as you would a meeting every single day.
298
Do not schedule over it unless you would cancel a meeting with someone for whatever's being asked of you.
299
Turn off your Slack, turn off your email.
300
It's one hour.
301
No one's going to die.
302
Um, and again, let your boss know you're doing this.
303
Have a way for them to reach you in an actual emergency.
304
I like to say, put your phone on the other side of the room where you can't reach it with your hand because we're addicted.
305
We'll just.
306
You know?
307
Yeah.
308
My phone is literally in front of me right now.
309
Yeah, exactly.
310
Like it's, I can't unless it's physically removed from me.
311
So, uh, I'd be like, look, call me if there's an emergency, I will walk across the room and pick it up, but otherwise I'm heads down in that time.
312
You should be working on strategy by strategy.
313
I mean, what are the big picture things?
314
What are the projects I need to work on to move the needle forward
315
and I'm a big fan of having just one per quarter
316
that this is the project I have here at stages every day I clock in at
317
that time and I just heads down work on that one project
318
and that's how you move the needle forward every day make measurable progress every day
319
because if you just use
320
that time to quote unquote catch up you're not ever working on your own KPIs I totally agree Rachel, by the way, I'm like nodding visually because I think that,
321
yes, I'm a big believer in time blocking, but also you can't just say focus time or busy
322
or anything like that because you're not going to be held accountable to that.
323
And by you, I mean, I personally will not just focus time will be me on my catching up on Slack messages
324
or maybe looking at my phone for whatever else I need to look at.
325
But if you actually put an hour in your calendar every single day, like you've just said, and every hour is accounted for saying building,
326
I don't know, a playbook for renewals or saying reviewing health score metrics
327
or whatever it is that you're trying to do to be more proactive.
328
If you actually make it and treat it like a meeting, you'd be surprised at how much more you can shift towards that proactive nature.
329
So I do love you sharing that that juicy tip.
330
And I completely agree.
331
You have to be accountable.
332
You have to hold yourself accountable because otherwise the day will just take you like the sea, you know?
333
Definitely.
334
If you don't do that for yourself, you're just, you're in it and you're going.
335
And the reason that I say, you know, I say one to two, I try to get people to do two, but it's everything's baby steps.
336
Because you're still going to have to deal with all that stuff, right?
337
There's still going to be all the reactive things that you need to deal with.
338
This is a realistic way.
339
It's like, I'm not going from, you know, eating burgers and fries every day to like gluten -free vegan overnight.
340
Cause that's just not realistic, but you know, maybe I can have an apple with my Big Mac, you know?
341
So to me, uh, and no, I don't, whatever.
342
Um, to me saying like one hour towards the beginning of the day, you know, my personal thing is check your email for half an hour.
343
Cause you're going to anyway, I'm never going to tell you, no, don't look at your email first thing in the morning sure
344
that would be great not gonna happen
345
but like do what you can do in a half an
346
hour shut it know you're coming back to it in an hour
347
and then before the day steals you you know 9 30
348
to 10 30 get in there get it done um
349
but also you know you always want to know what is the very next step
350
so leave a breadcrumb for yourself like i'm picking up here
351
and tomorrow i'm going to do this
352
because all the tasks switching it actually you know here's the psychology stuff
353
but it it makes your IQ points drop by about 20
354
percent towards the end of the day by just going back and forth.
355
I'm just I'm just thinking it makes me exhausted
356
because whatever I switch I'm like it's super tiring when you have to contact switch so much in one day.
357
So I mean if you can batch all your like I'm going to be working with people
358
and I'm going to be talking to you on meetings
359
and then you're I'm going to be working on like analytical stuff
360
if you can sort of batch those in different spaces in the day or on different days, that's ideal because you're going to end up less tired.
361
I love that.
362
Those are such great tips.
363
And I think as a leader, you have to start to set the example in order to get your team to follow suit, like you just said.
364
But is there a strategy or a mindset a team leader should be following in order to be proactive or more proactive, I should say, rather than reactive?
365
Because I think, again, leaders are probably the worst at this and then their teams see it
366
and then their teams mimic what they see as well.
367
Because they're never taught.
368
You know, when you move from a CSM to any sort of leadership position,
369
again, one of the reasons I did this is there's almost never any training and it's a completely different position and mindset.
370
You go from being in the weeds to having to have a strategic overview and it won't work.
371
And that's why I hate player coach because you can't do both.
372
You just won't.
373
It won't happen.
374
You're basically paying someone more to continue to be a CSM and just be more stressed about it.
375
One of the things that I say
376
that you have to learn to do is just relentlessly prioritize and be okay with saying no.
377
You have to learn how to do that in a way that doesn't piss people off.
378
You are now responsible for this department's metrics.
379
and the people involved.
380
So another thing I have people do is we, because a lot of this is very tactical and practical because the brain is going to say, you're going to say here, that's a great idea.
381
I'm going to do that.
382
I'm going to block an hour on my calendar.
383
We come back the next week.
384
I say, great.
385
How many people blocked an hour on their calendar?
386
Lots of hands go up.
387
How many took it?
388
Maybe two.
389
Like, okay.
390
So this is why we have the coaching.
391
What happened?
392
What did your brain tell you was more important.
393
Yeah, definitely.
394
But I think you just highlighted something so important is
395
that we tend not to say no.
396
And I think the way our minds are built as customer success professionals is I'm here to help.
397
I'm here to do it.
398
I can do it all.
399
Please let me help.
400
Yes, I can help.
401
Or yes, I'm happy to.
402
Yes, we are.
403
We are people pleasers naturally.
404
And I think it's just the way we are.
405
But I know a lot of CS pros
406
that are always trying to do it all
407
and they're trying to help make their customers successful
408
while also trying to collect feedback for product
409
while also trying to be like the best top performer and also have a seat at the executive table.
410
And then eventually you burn out because that's just way too much on one person's plate.
411
How do you either coach or what's the psychological shift around finding balance around that?
412
That's about setting expectations.
413
And this is something where I find it helps
414
if you are creating like a visual cue of everything that's on your plate.
415
You know, we have, I have a system that I give people, but basically it just is a way to track all the things that you have to do, all like the random crap,
416
because there is a lot of that and it'll take up your whole day, plus a separate place for the projects.
417
And just kind of map in your day, like realistically, historically, what have I been able to do in a day?
418
What have I accomplished?
419
You can track it for a few days, but you'll start to see, I like to have a to -do and a today
420
and you pull things from to -do into today
421
but you'll start to see that to -do just keeps growing longer
422
and longer and longer and you'll start to get stressed out about it
423
but the thing is what it's time to do when
424
that happens is say reality intrudes there is more on my
425
plate than I can get done in the amount of time allotted right
426
and it can feel like a scary conversation to say to
427
your boss to another department like I can't do this like I have to say no.
428
There are ways to say no without pissing people off.
429
You can't be like, I can't, I'm sorry, or being really apologetic.
430
It's just, if you treat it like math, if you're like, look, this is how many things I have to do.
431
This is how many hours I have in the day.
432
And I'm trying to put 10 pounds of potatoes into a five pound bag.
433
That's how I like to put it.
434
It's just not going to fit.
435
So you have to decide what are the things that are going to truly move the needle on whatever your KPIs are.
436
If it's NRR, if it's, you know, QBRs, if, you know, some people track how many QBRs, if it's engagement, if it, whatever you are tracking, what,
437
you know, I prefer outcomes, but those are trickier to track.
438
But what are the most bang for the buck activities?
439
And what are the things that are on your plate that are actually going to make a difference?
440
There's something called the Pareto Principle, and it's in science, it's in math.
441
It shows that 80 % of your results will come from 20 % of your actions
442
and taking the time to really dig into what are those 20%,
443
you know, and instead of trying to fix the 80 % that's not actually helping, double down on the stuff that is.
444
And that's really how you how you work in the whole, you know, do more with less thing.
445
Do more with less is not possible if you just mean do all the stuff everyone was doing, but with fewer people.
446
That's not possible.
447
No, you have to change your strategy and actually make progress.
448
And that's what you have to do as a leader.
449
It's prioritization all the time and saying, I would love to do this.
450
I understand how important it is.
451
But, you know, we agreed that this was going to be, you know, NRR was going to be our key priority.
452
And that's a lagging indicator.
453
But I can tell you
454
that these are the things I need to do to get customers staying and to get customers buying more.
455
It's just, it's so important to remember that you are putting out output
456
that is actually driving value and the prioritization piece is so critical.
457
I mean, as someone who works with CSMs as well, CSMs prioritize every day.
458
If you think about it, you're prioritizing which customers have to call, which ones are priority, are they higher paying, are they lower health score, whatever it is.
459
It's the same thing as a leader as well.
460
It's the same skill set, I should say.
461
It's like, you really do have to prioritize
462
if you have 50 things on your to -do list how
463
are you realistically going to get to those 50 things it's
464
not by doing more you're not you really have to prioritize
465
and you have to think about of these 50 things on my to -do list
466
which one is going to drive the biggest impact for the business, for the team, for my customers.
467
And like you said, it's only about 20 % of those tasks that are actually going to drive impact.
468
And you have to pick that out and decide as a leader what that means for you and your team.
469
But I love that.
470
So many good little tips here.
471
I'm really loving this conversation, but I want to talk about something that I think as people pleasers and as top performers,
472
CSMs also struggle with, or any CS professional, I should say, which is imposter syndrome.
473
I know you talk about this on your podcast as well.
474
I know it's something that honestly I felt for 15 years now and I know that I struggle with it.
475
I know a lot of customer success professionals struggle with it.
476
How do you address this with your coaches or with anyone you've worked with?
477
How do you really shift that mindset when it comes to imposter syndrome?
478
This is one of my favorite things to talk about
479
because it's something that you can actually shift in a reasonably short amount of time.
480
Tell us more.
481
Tell us the quick trip.
482
I mean, but let's be honest, you're not going to build and scale your entire CS department in three months, right?
483
So people come out of my program and they're like, I have all the tools that I, you know, to do what I need to do.
484
I know what I need to do now.
485
It's not done, but, you know, I feel comfortable in that.
486
The major difference they come out with is confidence
487
because they're like I'm a different person like I'm not worried the way I was
488
that like oh my god oh my god everyone's gonna realize
489
I'm a fraud oh my god uh I'm gonna get fired I'm gonna end up living under a bridge
490
and oh my god you know
491
and that's what I used to do um it's a combination of factors uh to me it's understanding
492
that the people that you're talking to most of the time you know
493
if you're talking to other departments if you're talking to senior leadership
494
they know less than you do about customer success so true
495
so true you are the expert here yeah you are the expert here
496
and you have to be and you have to be
497
if you let doubt get in there
498
and you're like well i don't know you know we we are animals we want
499
when we look for a leader it's
500
because they seem like okay they know where they're going i'm gonna follow them because that's going to keep me safe.
501
If a leader is like, well, I don't know, like you're not going to follow them because you're like, that doesn't seem safe to me.
502
Right.
503
So you have to also understand it's just the expectations I think are a little too high.
504
People have of what leadership really is.
505
We're still just a bunch of grownups in a room, having conversations, doing our best guess of what's going to work here.
506
All right.
507
That is all it is.
508
You know, if it's a strategic initiative, it's you know all right
509
so we're this is what's been happening with onboarding we're going
510
to try doing you know a group onboarding to use less of our time we're going to see
511
if that has any impact on adoption and the quality goes down
512
but if it doesn't that's a real big win for us
513
so that's what we're going to do it could increase our
514
capacity by you know take 20 percent more clients each okay
515
so you've called a number
516
which is what a lot of us are afraid to do guess what
517
if it ends up being 15 percent no one's gonna throw tomatoes at you
518
or shoot you uh it's you say these things in a room full of other executives
519
and they just say okay sounds good moving on to the
520
next we all just kind of sense check each other so
521
that if there's a glaring thing that's missing
522
because we all have blind spots
523
if there's something glaring we can be like hey have you thought about this one angle
524
but otherwise it's just like hey folks here's what i'm gonna try i'm doing these little experiments off we go
525
and if it bombs miserably you come back and you say hey
526
so here's what we planned we all agreed
527
that made sense here's what happened we did not have access to this data
528
that you know this is new data we're going to pivot
529
and here's how we're going to react based on the result
530
we got it's that's science you know um it's different
531
if it's if you're in a company where there are people who are abusive
532
and that's not a healthy place to be right that's not about imposter syndrome that's about someone being horrible um
533
but it's a combination of you know understanding
534
that you don't have to know everything
535
and what you know is enough just keep learning
536
and you know yeah you're still gonna fall on your butt a couple times
537
and it's not gonna be the end of the world definitely
538
and i think if you're facing imposter syndrome it means you're actually a super top performer right
539
so you shouldn't be worried overconfident people do not have imposter
540
syndrome like i've had bosses tell me like i need you to mess up more often
541
i need you to take some risks it's okay
542
if you fail like just don't try and make it perfect
543
because it's the perfectionist you know aspect that comes into it
544
and it's like if i don't make it perfect you know
545
if i make it perfect then nobody can have anything to
546
say about it no one can be mad at me
547
and no one can be mean to me right um
548
but the other piece of it which I hadn't really thought about until I ended up having people in a cohort environment,
549
is seeing that other people felt exactly the same way and seeing how knowledgeable they were
550
and realizing they knew just about the same amount of stuff and that everybody was kind of in the same boat, that it's just like, okay, so this isn't a me issue.
551
This is just kind of normal and everyone feels this way.
552
Yeah, it really is.
553
And I think that everyone should start to embrace that like truly
554
if you are a top performer and you're worried about like how you're being perceived
555
or what's happening in your career if you're doing enough
556
or do you really belong in this role or this this title
557
if you're thinking those things then honestly like you're doing fine
558
because imposter syndrome doesn't happen to people who are like low performers
559
or people who are like too confident it happens to the people
560
that are just doing the best they can and they're questioning themselves.
561
And honestly, most of us are facing it.
562
And I'd say, especially in CS right now, because of all we've been facing and, you know, being asked to do more than is possible.
563
And now it's like, hey, you can save the economy, right?
564
Right.
565
Yeah.
566
You can save our whole business today, right?
567
You're going to be the entire growth engine.
568
You know, we haven't let you do anything before, but now you've got it, right?
569
We've given you no tools, two people, a spreadsheet, and you can turn it around.
570
Yeah, that's what you've been here for the whole time.
571
So with those kinds of expectations, of course, that's going to play into, oh my God, why can't I do this thing that they're asking me to do?
572
Yeah.
573
And when so many startups hire people who are first -time leaders, you have the blind leading the blind.
574
And it happens enough because that's what they can afford, you know?
575
But it sets everybody up for a lot of frustration, a lot of disappointment, because it's going to take, it's a longer term growth strategy.
576
but if you are the other thing is cs people as you've said people pleasers high performers
577
most of us have been like
578
that gold star a student you know i'm i do everything right
579
and i work my butt off to get it
580
but i do it for the first time in our lives
581
a lot of us are experiencing i couldn't get the outcome
582
that i wanted and that is devastating and we're not getting the praise
583
that we're used to
584
and we're not getting the oh my god you were such a help uh
585
and and there are people looking at us with disappointment and
586
that is devastating and it really affects a lot of us in terms of our mental health uh
587
and the reality is so many of those people are being set up to fail
588
so it's not just getting the confidence to get over imposter
589
syndrome it's getting the confidence to be able to step back pause look at it logically
590
and say all right what am i being asked to do?
591
How would that get done?
592
And is that truly possible?
593
And then having those conversations, even if it's not a conversation that people are going to like, being able to say, I want to do this for you.
594
But you know, you're asking me to build a house in two weeks.
595
Yeah, which is impossible.
596
And that is not a task that you should be feeling bad about or have any sort of imposter syndrome around, to be honest.
597
Yeah, more mature companies hopefully don't do that as much.
598
But it's happening a lot in startups right now.
599
So I do like to call it out.
600
It is it is.
601
And you've just talked about a lot of things about mindset shift, about imposter syndrome, about how you can get certain outputs from your team based on your leadership style
602
and the way that you lead your teams.
603
Looking back at your career and everything that you've accomplished, what's one thing that you wish you could have done differently or better based on mindset?
604
Wow, there are so many things.
605
I mean, the first and most obvious is like, I wish I could have been a little nicer to myself and not,
606
you know, had such an almost identity crisis when I couldn't do something perfectly.
607
You shifted careers like massively.
608
Oh, yeah.
609
I mean, honestly, that was so much easier than CS ever was.
610
There's so many fewer people to have to try and make happy.
611
I enjoy learning.
612
But in terms of like what I would have done differently, there are certain jobs where I would have said no to certain things.
613
that I said yes to that and I shot myself in the foot and it really wasn't anyone's fault, but I would have just been like,
614
oh, you know what, that's not possible right now.
615
This is what we need to focus on.
616
And like what you're asking me to do here isn't reasonable rather than just being like, yeah, I can do it and like falling on my face.
617
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
618
Learning to say no and learning to set your boundaries.
619
I think that's a huge mindset tip that anyone can take away in CS, whether you're a first -time CSM or a seasoned leader.
620
I know I struggle with it still.
621
It's something that you have to always find balance with.
622
So thanks for sharing that.
623
Listen, Rachel, we can sit here and talk for hours.
624
And I honestly, we could probably record like 10 podcasts on this topic, but I always like to wrap up my podcast episodes with
625
a quick fire round where I challenge my guests to try to answer the next few questions in one sentence or less, which might be tough based on what we've talked about.
626
Based on me.
627
Yeah.
628
But I'm going to challenge you to try to answer these in one sentence or less.
629
Are you ready?
630
Ready.
631
Okay.
632
The first is if you could predict the future, what do you think CS will focus on next year?
633
Hmm.
634
outcomes i'm seeing it all over the first dominoes are starting to tip i think it's going to be outcomes
635
and i'm happy about that because that is that that's a sentence
636
good good first uh attempt next question is which app
637
or software do you use every day every week on your phone
638
or your laptop and why aside from games um i play so many phone games it's so embarrassing,
639
but I actually use Trello all the time because that's where I keep my organizational system, everything I have to do, everything I have to tell everyone.
640
I cannot keep a thought in my brain.
641
It's all in there.
642
Amazing.
643
I love a good to -do list as well.
644
And the next question is, if you could change one thing about customer success, what would it be?
645
Make people have realistic expectations.
646
I like that.
647
So hard to do one sentence on that, but that's where I'm going to leave it.
648
Yeah.
649
Okay.
650
Amazing.
651
And my last question for you is, who should be my next podcast guest?
652
I give you like 10.
653
That's okay.
654
You can give me 10.
655
Yeah.
656
I would say Cynthia DaSilva, Shari, if she's allowed, Shari Srebnek, you know, depending if Forrester lets her.
657
Jan Young always has amazing things to say about revenue and CS really cool, different perspective.
658
Yep.
659
Those are all really good people to talk to, I would say.
660
Amazing.
661
Thank you so much for your time, Rachel.
662
I really appreciated this conversation.
663
It was super enlightening.
664
I always love chatting with you.
665
If our guests have any future questions or want to hear more about CSLA or everything that you're up to, what's the best way to get ahold of you.
666
You can find me on provansuccess .com.
667
Provan, not proven, but it's a pun.
668
Provansuccess .com.
669
And I also am on LinkedIn all the time.
670
You can find me there.
671
I am not scary at all.
672
You can always just message me and I'll be nice to you, I promise.
673
Amazing.
674
And I'll make sure to link everything in our show notes.
675
Thank you so much, Rachel.
676
Really appreciate it.
677
And thanks for being on the show.
678
Thank you for having me.
679
This was a blast.
680
thank you for listening to the customer success pro podcast today
681
i hope you learned something new to take back to your team
682
and your company
683
if you enjoyed today's episode please can you take one minute
684
to give me a positive review on apple podcast it takes a lot of time
685
and energy to create an episode
686
and i want to continue to create more for you
687
but it would be great to know
688
that you are enjoying these episodes also do not forget to subscribe to this podcast on apple podcast
689
or spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast as i release a new podcast every month
690
And if you have any topics that you would like me to discuss in the future, or you would like to be a guest on this podcast, please feel free to reach out.
691
All my contact details are in the show notes.
692
And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it because sharing is caring.
693
Thanks again for listening and tune in next time for more on customer success.
694
Cheers to your CS journey and catch you next time.
Télécharger l'application
Tout pour parler couramment
Prononciation IAChaque phrase notée
Phonétique (IPA)Maîtrisez chaque son
VocabulaireEnrichissez votre lexique
Jeu de vocabulaireApprenez en jouant
Même chaîne
FOR YOU
Vidéo recommandée
B21
845 phrases
How to Stop Being Overlooked & Start Getting What You Want With Top Business School Professor
Business EnglishInterview EnglishWorking Adults
B21
252 phrases
15 Psychological Marketing Triggers to MAKE PEOPLE BUY From YOU!
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B224
22 phrases
How to build social skills and remain authentic
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B23
44 phrases
Day in the Life of a Customer Success Engineer | WFH/Remote
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B21
34 phrases
Sales Tutorial - Customer problem-solving
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B21
198 phrases
How to keep people’s attention in work presentations as an expert in your domain
Business EnglishWorking Adults
C1549 phrases
The HR Dialogues #49 | Key Elements of a High-Performance Culture: What HR Needs To Know
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B2409 phrases
RECAST - Why You Will Fail Without a COO | Cameron Herold (Podcast 598)
Business EnglishWorking Adults
C11
323 phrases
How to Grow a Healthy Organization - Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B23
406 phrases
How to Become the Most Successful Sales Engineer at Your Company
Business EnglishWorking Adults
B26
65 phrases
How To Build a Strong Mind: New Focus on Resilience
American AccentBusiness EnglishUniversity StudentsWorking Adults
Vocabulaire et conseils d’expression pour cette leçon
Cette leçon d’expression orale de niveau B2 s’appuie sur la vidéo « Psychological Mindset Shift from Reactive to Proactive Customer Success with Rachel Provan ». Cette vidéo contient 694 phrases et 8361 mots à répéter en shadowing. La partie parlée dure 43:13. Le locuteur parle vite, environ 193 mots par minute : attendez-vous à des liaisons et à des sons réduits. 85 % des mots font partie des 3 000 mots les plus courants en anglais ; le reste mérite d’être vu avant de commencer.
Vocabulaire clé de cette vidéo
Les 15 mots les plus avancés de la vidéo, avec leur prononciation et leur sens :
| Mot | Prononciation | Sens |
|---|---|---|
| podcast nom | /ˈpɑdˌkæst/ | podcast, balado |
| mindset nom | /ˈmaɪn(d)ˌsɛt/ | état d'esprit, disposition d'esprit |
| proactive adjectif | /pɹoʊˈæk.tɪv/ | proactif |
| impostor nom | /ɪmˈpɑstɚ/ | imposteur, impostrice |
| performer nom | /pɚˈfɔɹmɚ/ | artiste, interprète |
| startup nom | /ˈstɑɹtˌʌp/ | mise en route, mise en train |
| prioritize verbe | /pɹaɪˈɒɹ.ə.taɪz/ | prioriser |
| expectation nom | /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/ | attente |
| accomplish verbe | /əˈkɑm.plɪʃ/ | accomplir |
| believer nom | /bɪˈlivɚ/ | croyant, croyante |
| predictable adjectif | /pɹəˈdɪktəbləl/ | prédictible, prévisible |
| accountable adjectif | /əˈkaʊntəbl̩/ | responsable |
| needle nom | /ˈniː.dəl/ | aiguille |
| technically adverbe | /ˈtɛk.nɪˌkəl.i/ | techniquement |
| dive verbe | /daɪv/ | nager, plonger |
Les verbes à particule que vous entendrez
| Mot | Sens |
|---|---|
| end up verbe | se terminer, se finir |
| come back verbe | revenir |
| come up with verbe | inventer, imaginer |
| pick up verbe | soulever |
| turn off verbe | éteindre |
| figure out verbe | cerner |
| find out verbe | découvrir, savoir |
| get over verbe | surmonter |
Des phrases à répéter
Des phrases courtes et complètes de la vidéo, à réutiliser dans la conversation de tous les jours :
- I'm like, no, it's a new year.
- Here's what I learned here's my wisdom.
- You know, it's so funny.
- I'm happy at this company.
- I mean, what are the big picture things?
La grammaire de cette vidéo
Les structures que le locuteur utilise le plus, avec les mots exacts de la vidéo :
| Structure | Dans la vidéo |
|---|---|
| Present perfect continu have/has been + -ing — une action commencée avant et toujours en cours | you've been doing · I've been studying · what's been happening |
| Phrases conditionnelles if + proposition, will/would + verbe — une condition et son résultat | if there's an emergency, I will walk |
| Present perfect have/has + participe passé — une action passée qui compte encore maintenant | I've been · i've done · has gone |
| Voix passive be + participe passé — l’accent est mis sur ce qui arrive, pas sur qui le fait | was created · is proven · be guided |
Prononciation à surveiller
Le locuteur utilise 259 contractions et formes réduites, comme I'm, you're, don't. Prononcez-les sous leur forme courte, telles que vous les entendez.
- Les sons « sh » et « zh »: expectation /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/, accomplish /əˈkɑm.plɪʃ/, prioritization /prʌɪˌɒrətʌɪˈzeɪʃ(ə)n/, entrepreneurship /ˌɑn.tɹə.pɹəˈnɝ.ʃɪp/, anxious /ˈæŋkʃəs/
- Mots longs — placez bien l’accent: prioritize /pɹaɪˈɒɹ.ə.taɪz/, expectation /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/, predictable /pɹəˈdɪktəbləl/, technically /ˈtɛk.nɪˌkəl.i/, prioritization /prʌɪˌɒrətʌɪˈzeɪʃ(ə)n/
Comment s’entraîner avec cette vidéo
- Écoutez la vidéo en entier une fois sans parler et notez les mots que vous ne connaissez pas.
- Commencez à la vitesse 0,75×, répétez phrase par phrase, puis revenez à la vitesse normale quand cela devient facile.
- Enregistrez-vous et comparez avec l’original, en faisant attention à des mots comme podcast, mindset, proactive.
Qu'est-ce que la technique du Shadowing ?
Le Shadowing est une technique d'apprentissage des langues fondée sur la science, développée à l'origine pour la formation des interprètes professionnels. Le principe est simple mais puissant : vous écoutez de l'anglais natif et le répétez immédiatement à voix haute — comme une ombre suivant le locuteur avec un décalage de 1 à 2 secondes. Les recherches montrent une amélioration significative de la précision de la prononciation, de l'intonation, du rythme, des liaisons, de la compréhension orale et de la fluidité.