Shadowing Practice: Jonathan Anderson in conversation with Bella Freud - Learn English Speaking with Video
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1
So here we are in the Jardin des Tuileries, three days before your show.
2
Three days before the show.
3
It's being constructed over there.
4
Right behind you, yes.
5
I was reading about your thoughts, the things that informed you about the show, and you immerse yourself a lot in art and poetry.
6
And I wondered, what are the are there things that you return to a lot?
7
Yeah, I think for me, I'm kind of a slight creature of habit sometimes.
8
It might not look the same, but I think maybe the kind of, the way in which I've got to it might be the same process for me.
9
So I think, for me, when I'm building like a character, I work with the same group of people.
10
So in a weird way, it's like a paintbrush or using the same people that you trust to kind of build the look.
11
This is kind of a weird collection because it's sort of, it's very daywear.
12
It’s more daywear for me.
13
And a bit more ready-to-wear.
14
It's been an interesting process, this one.
15
And sometimes I’m like, does that work or does it not?
16
You know, it's a strange feeling, this one.
17
So it’s either going to be really right or really wrong.
18
Well, there's something so luxurious about fashion in the day, and Paris is the place for that, to be really dressed up, whereas London is sort of the grunge centre, really.
19
And it's great to make clothes for those opportunities, I think.
20
Yeah. I love seeing people who have made an effort, and it must be wonderful to create for that.
21
Yeah, and I think that's what's quite interesting about parks somehow.
22
You know, historically Dior has always shown here.
23
I always think of pleasure gardens or even in Britain that you have this idea of the promenade, or people used to dress up to go somewhere.
24
And there's been something I've been quite fascinated with in that, this idea to dress up, and what does that mean today?
25
What we're trying to say about, you know, the psychology of people.
26
It's more about psychology now than status.
27
It used to be about how you would dress up for status purposes.
28
Now it's more about the psychology or what kind of clan you were part of.
29
Like what group were you part of, you know.
30
Because you were talking about Louis XIV having a code, that people who came into the park had to have a code for dressing to do with their rank in life.
31
Their rank.
32
And I wondered how important codes of dress are for you, because your own code is quite inscrutable.
33
For my own self, how I dress is more like a school uniform.
34
I went to school, I had a school uniform, so I need some sort of tight formula to work from.
35
But I like this idea of, you know, by staging the show here and looking at this idea of the promenade, this idea of the bridge, this idea of what is that day in the park?
36
You know, like what is that look in that singular moment?
37
Is this coat part of your code?
38
This is becoming… Because I’m wearing your coat, you're wearing your coat, and it feels like, you know, you were talking about liking some of my dad's paintings, and you even own some. And in the new show at the National Portrait Gallery, there's a lot of drawings of coats, a bit like the ones we're wearing, and the detail of the stitching and everything, and it's so evocative, and it's so meaningful to someone, you know, who's making clothes as well.
39
You know, that's what I've always loved in your father's pictures, is that you have this immediacy of the wearer or the sitter.
40
You can feel the closeness of texture or something in his images.
41
Or even himself, he had such great style.
42
He had such an amazing way of wearing, especially those amazing images with falcons.
43
And the kestrel, that is amazing.
44
I've always had that on my mood board.
45
Because I've always thought like that for me is just, like, I would want to look like that or something.
46
There's a poetry in that image, I always think.
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And do you find a certain tension, that you look for a tension in like the works that you look at, or even the poems that you're interested in?
48
Yeah, I like things that I can get obsessed by.
49
Yeah. People that I can get obsessed by.
50
Sometimes I can get obsessed by a singular painting that is more that you fall in love with the sitter.
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Or it can be the landscape, you know.
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Sometimes it can be something where I'm like, how do you become part of that landscape?
53
How do you get to that final result?
54
Yeah. You're showing here in the Tuileries, and when you choose a setting for a show, is that something that happens early on, or does it come later to the story?
55
Usually the set comes first because of the time that it takes to work out the process to build it.
56
This one's kind of unfolded in a very weird way because I was struggling with the tent concept, because you end up being in a white box.
57
Yeah. And then I was like, we are in such a beautiful garden.
58
So this time we built a piece of architecture around something.
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And it's this idea of what is fake, what is real.
60
You have the water fountain, which is real.
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You've got the water lilies, which are fake.
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Nearby, you've got the painting by Monet of water lilies, which is real.
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I've always been kind of obsessed with that.
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Like, what is real, what is not real?
65
Or how do you find a subtlety in… It's like these chairs.
66
I've always been really obsessed by these chairs, because I feel like it's the perfect example of the readymade.
67
You just represent it.
68
You know exactly you're in Paris.
69
You can show it out of context.
70
You know where you are from an object.
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And I've always been kind of interested in objects that create iconography in that way.
72
Because you seem to have a particular talent for getting people to look again at sort of ordinary things, everyday things that they have looked at many times.
73
And you draw attention to them in a new way, or you recast them so that they suddenly become really meaningful.
74
And you know, it's such an intimidating place, this garden in the middle of France.
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How do you feel as an Irish Englishman coming in here and taking possession of it?
76
Well, that's why I think you have to go to what is a level playing field.
77
I think that's what's interesting about the chair in the Tuileries is that it is for everyone to use.
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It is not a hierarchy, it is for everyone.
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And there's something quite humbling in that.
80
That's what I love when I walk home, when I walk through the Tuileries, it is a place of congregation and at the same time it is a place for reflection.
81
You know, that's why in the invitation there are two chairs.
82
It’s this idea that you are talking to someone or at the same time you can sit in isolation.
83
Yeah. And I quite like this as a backdrop to a show.
84
For me, this is Paris.
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I always will feel like a tourist in Paris.
86
Sometimes being a tourist is quite good because you see the thing, you kind of edit.
87
I suppose it's a way of finding the things that attach you to a city, especially Paris, which is such a grand, and it's so composed.
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And, you know, here you are coming into one of the biggest houses in the world, a fashion house.
89
You have to kind of take hostage.
90
You have to sort of invade, and then you're running the show and setting the tone.
91
The thing about Dior, sometimes it is, you know, for a designer, it's quite scary because the name is so hefty.
92
Yes. It is quite a big name.
93
And in a weird way, it's sort of like you're kind of taking the salon chair and you're swapping it for the garden chair.
94
And I think it's about playing on these odd realities to make yourself feel you're in this small brand even though it's not a small brand.
95
That’s so interesting that you bring it close to you in that way, and that's where you can start to build out.
96
Yeah. That’s fascinating.
97
It’s about bringing the audience closer because I'm, you know, as much as we have to, we will show to a thousand people, I'm always trying to think of how do you take it outside?
98
Like, how do we take it to people online?
99
And how do they experience it as well?
100
How do you get people involved in the process of it, you know.
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And see the kind of vulnerability in it or see the grandeur of it or see the kind of craft in it, or… There are different ways to kind of get in, ultimately.
102
I suppose those are all the intimacies that you're creating.
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I always think of Gulliver held down captive by thousands of tiny strands, and it's like, that's what you're creating.
104
People are being captivated in this love for all these different details that you bring to life within the collection.
105
And you're using a Donegal tweed in this...
106
Yeah. This is one of my favourite fabrics in history.
107
I love that. And it's like, you know, it's very chic when a French woman uses the materials from another country or another sort of movement or whatever.
108
I think for me that was like, how do I bring my own self into the brand?
109
And I come from Ireland.
110
For me it was a fabric that I was so used to having blankets in, in the car.
111
You know, you’d always have these Donegal blankets and they were incredibly itchy.
112
Or like, these sweaters that were very itchy.
113
So for me, what I love about a Donegal tweed is that you have something which looks kind of mundane from afar, but when you get close to it, there’s like thousands of colours in it.
114
There’s like little tiny bits of colour.
115
And I think this always reminds me of where I grew up, because in a weird way, it’s the grey.
116
It’s very green or grey.
117
But then in it, you start to see these tiny fragments of colour somehow.
118
And you made a new colourway.
119
Yeah. For this show we did a yellow, a kind of strange yellow, a weird beige and a purple.
120
Mhm. And it's quite nice because you just, by subtly changing just little tiny bits, they become very radically different as a piece.
121
That sounds so beautiful, because French women know how to accessorise in a way that English women certainly are always rather envious of.
122
And so the idea of like, what kind of jewellery or heel And so the idea of like, what kind of jewellery or heel or anything that someone would wear with Donegal is an exciting concept.
123
Yeah, because it's quite a tough fabric.
124
So in a weird way, when you play with jewellery on it, you need something which is either quite transparent or something which is actually incredibly bejewelled.
125
Because then it kind of like, it really contradicts from it.
126
And you're showing in the round with this collection.
127
And I wondered, when you think about the models walking out and the impact of what you've created will have on the audience, how is it different from a straight catwalk?
128
And do you want to bamboozle the audience, in a way, with these kind of multiple experiences?
129
Well, first of all it was because there was a fountain in the middle, it was a constraint.
130
But I always like, for example, I love theatre in the round.
131
I always, obviously the Globe.
132
It brings the audience closer to something, because everyone is viewing it from the same angle.
133
So everyone's looking in.
134
Yeah. And I quite like this idea of watching the singular of this like, this girl walking across a bridge.
135
You’re just looking at this thing from afar, and then you, as it comes into the room, it confronts you, you know.
136
It’s sort of interesting.
137
Oh that’s wonderful.
138
It’s like a magnet at the centre of it.
139
It's fantastic.
140
And it pulls you in.
141
And I think it's sort of spotlights something, you know.
142
It's like when you go to the Globe, you always have that feeling that the actor is so much closer than it really is.
143
I'd never taken in, of course, that everyone is the same distance, Yeah. because… But now you say it.
144
It's really a spellbinding concept.
145
And it just, I think what it does is there's no interruption, when the character appears.
146
Yeah. No, I'm really excited about the set because it's sort of, I've never done a set like this.
147
So it’s sort of quite, it's quite exciting this part.
148
And I wondered, do you choose music to create modernity around such a historic brand as Dior?
149
And does that choice guide people almost to be more daring in how they dress?
150
Music can be really crucial.
151
I always believe that music can either make you love a show or hate it, love the look or dislike the look.
152
Yeah. Sometimes I like music either that goes with it.
153
Sometimes I like music that can kind of contradict a look to kind of maybe take the historicalness out of it.
154
Or sometimes I like to be literal, where it's like evoking a kind of, you're forcing an emotion.
155
Yeah. It depends on the show, ultimately.
156
What’s the music of Water Lilies then in this?
157
I wanted it to feel this moment as if you were walking transiently through a garden and you are picking up sounds that became slightly techno.
158
You know, like you're kind of picking the sounds up and then they become softened.
159
So they’re fast sounds, but they’re like, they soften out.
160
When you see water lilies, what I think is always fascinating is that they're very poised.
161
They're quite, these things are like, they hover on the surface of water.
162
And when they flower, it's quite miraculous.
163
You can see why Monet was so obsessed.
164
They distort reflection within water because they create this idea of solidity in it.
165
So I was trying to get that feeling in the music.
166
Let's see. We're on the second edit of the music, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
167
It's always interesting because it's like, as a viewer, you see another aspect of the designer's personality and they're kind of almost like they're craving how to include this other part of life that lives… Which is soundscape.
168
And in a weird way, fashion and music have always gone together.
169
Like it's always had an affinity.
170
You know, the great composers had great style or they had, um, you know, an occasion, or occasion wear.
171
There was a sort of formality.
172
When you think of Bach or you think of what we know of what these people looked like in terms of paintings or in terms of etchings, you get this idea that music and the art of dressing have always been there.
173
I suppose it's such a big influence on aesthetic, isn't it?
174
Like anyone from Bach to Keith Richards or, you know, Cameron Winter.
175
And it's interesting because a friend of mine really got me into Sondheim, who obviously did “Sunday in the Park with George”, which is based on Seurat, the painter.
176
That's obviously this moment captured by Seurat.
177
And then it's then turned into music, and then, you know, then it becomes a...
178
And there is something about this idea of a melting pot of how music, fashion, culture, how it all kind of falls in and in a way then can be the painting as well.
179
It can come just from a painting.
180
I suppose, with that Seurat painting, all those tiny little moments, you know, all those dots and those shimmers, they almost look like notes.
181
I'd never heard “Sunday in the Park with George” and I became completely obsessed about it.
182
No, I've never heard it.
183
I’m going to listen to that.
184
It's a fantastic musical. Fantastic.
185
And how do you know when something's done?
186
Because I always remember my father used to invite the painter Frank Auerbach over to… When he thought he'd finished a painting, he'd invite Frank over and say, I think it's done.
187
What do you think?
188
And I wondered how you know that moment.
189
I work with Ben, so I have the equivalent of Frank somehow.
190
I trust Ben implicitly, and he's someone who works with me throughout the process.
191
And Ben is very decisive.
192
He will decide when there can be no more added.
193
And the great thing about fashion shows is that there is always a deadline.
194
Yeah. So you have no choice but to be done.
195
That's the thing that I love about fashion the most, is that there is always this moment of finish and rejection.
196
And you are forced to move on.
197
I know, it's a wonderful thing.
198
It's the thing that people imagine is the worst thing, but actually it's the best because the quicker you can make a decision, the quicker that can get wired into your system, and cut that kind of… The cycle of it.
199
The cycle, yeah.
200
And then it forces you to renew.
201
And I think that is what I am always on the search for, is that you kind of relish the process right up to the very end, and then you break the cycle again to start over.
202
You know, to really try to find another language.
203
You're always in search of finding what the subtle combinations are that make something new.
204
And I really believe that fashion is a parallel language.
205
Sometimes you can show things better than you can speak them.
206
I always find, with the team, it's always at the very end when you have to do the press release.
207
I always struggle with this idea of how do you turn it into a press release.
208
This is the part that I really, I find really, really difficult because it's sort of you're ending up trying to force language onto something which is visual.
209
You can almost say anything.
210
It doesn't really have to be about what you did, but you can just somehow give it a kind of crazy title, like they do in red tops or something, that is just attractive and it's thrilling.
211
And then out comes all the consideration that you have created and applied, yeah.
212
And with Ben, how do you… You know, being the head of everything creative that comes from Dior, that is quite an unnerving thing with everybody saying yes.
213
Ben is my rock and my “no” guy.
214
He's the person who tells me no.
215
Yeah. And someone who I trust.
216
I think you have to find someone in life that you trust, who can say or challenge you in a way that makes you not become lazy, I think, in idea and in process.
217
But at the same time understands the way in which you are wired.
218
We do a tremendous amount of work, and the teams are doing tremendous amounts of work, but at the same time, you've got to kind of condense all this into a singular 65 looks or 85 looks.
219
And that is a kind of process of conflict and love for what you're doing.
220
Ben is very good at trying to put these things together.
221
It's wonderful to have such a trusted person in your work, and someone who reminds you of your own North Star, because, I mean, I've watched you, I met you when you were still at fashion college, and I remember you made me this lovely kind of scarf that was a… Yes, like a tube.
222
Yes, it was so beautiful.
223
And I've just watched how you have pursued your vision.
224
I know it's such a kind of overused phrase, but it was like you were burning with this, and now you're showing it on this world stage, and it's just such a beautiful thing to see.
225
But it's the same feeling.
226
As much as it's Dior or wherever I've worked or been at, it's a very small act in the end for me because in the end it's like, I have to take this entire amazing group of people, a singular vision of like what I'm thinking or what it's going to be, or what me and Ben are trying to put together.
227
And then you have to put it down a catwalk.
228
And in the end, no matter how big or small the brand is, it's either good or not good.
229
You're trying to find how to make it better for yourself and the dialogue with the consumer.
230
So it's this very kind of intimate process of editing.
231
I don't think the process has ever changed for me since the very beginning, because I think it's just, there's just more of it, you know.
232
But I have to apply that to every single detail that I do.
233
Yeah. Well, you're a master at it, Jonathan.
234
Thank you very much.
235
And thank you very much for being here.
236
And I can’t wait to see what you show us all.
237
Let’s hope the weather is good and not too windy.
238
But no, thank you very much for coming.
239
It's lovely to be here with you anyway.
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Woordenschat en spreektips bij deze les
Deze video bevat 239 zinnen en 3662 woorden om na te spreken. Het gesproken deel duurt 21:19. De spreker praat in een natuurlijk tempo van ongeveer 172 woorden per minuut, dicht bij een alledaags gesprek. 86% van de woorden hoort bij de 3.000 meest gebruikte Engelse woorden; de rest kun je beter vooraf bekijken.
Belangrijke woorden in deze video
15 woorden uit de video die het leren waard zijn, met uitspraak en betekenis:
| Woord | Uitspraak | Betekenis |
|---|---|---|
| singular bijvoeglijk naamwoord | /ˈsɪŋ.ɡjə.lɚ/ | enig, enige |
| coat zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈkoʊ̯t/ | mantel, jas |
| psychology zelfstandig naamwoord | /saɪˈkɑ.lə.d͡ʒi/ | psychologie, zielkunde |
| edit werkwoord | /ˈɛdɪt/ | bewerken, wijzigen |
| jewellery zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈd͡ʒʊ-/ | sieraad |
| rank zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈɹæŋk/ | gelid, rij |
| wire zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈwaɪɚ/ | draad |
| poetry zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈpoʊ.ə.tɹi/ | poëzie, dichtkunst |
| occasion zelfstandig naamwoord | /əˈkeɪ̯ʒən/ | gelegenheid |
| remind werkwoord | /ɹəˈmaɪnd/ | herinneren |
| landscape zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈlan(d)skeɪp/ | landschap |
| uniform zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈjunɪˌfɔɹm/ | uniform |
| invite werkwoord | /ɪnˈvaɪt/ | uitnodigen, nodigen |
| tension zelfstandig naamwoord | /ˈtɛnʃən/ | spanning |
| reflection zelfstandig naamwoord | /ɹɪˈflɛkʃən/ | reflectie, weerspiegeling |
Phrasal verbs die je zult horen
| Woord | Uitspraak | Betekenis |
|---|---|---|
| dress up werkwoord | verkleden | |
| end up werkwoord | belanden, terechtkomen | |
| grow up werkwoord | opgroeien | |
| pick up werkwoord | oppakken, optillen | |
| work out werkwoord | /ˌwɝk ˈaʊt/ | uitrekenen |
Grammatica in deze video
De structuren die de spreker het meest gebruikt, met de exacte woorden uit de video:
| Structuur | In de video |
|---|---|
| “Used to” used to + werkwoord — een vroegere gewoonte of toestand die niet meer klopt | used to dress · used to be · used to invite |
| Present perfect have/has + voltooid deelwoord — iets uit het verleden dat nu nog telt | It's been · have made · has always shown |
| Betrekkelijke bijzinnen who / which + zin — extra informatie over een persoon of ding | people who have · people who came · fountain, which is |
| Lijdende vorm be + voltooid deelwoord — het gaat om wat er gebeurt, niet om wie het doet | being constructed · be really dressed · been really obsessed |
Uitspraak om op te letten
De spreker gebruikt 66 samentrekkingen en verkorte vormen, zoals you're, I've, I'm. Spreek ze kort uit, zoals je ze hoort.
- De “th”-klanken: aesthetic /ɛsˈθɛ.tɪk/, thrill /θɹɪl/
- De klanken “sh” en “zh”: occasion /əˈkeɪ̯ʒən/, tension /ˈtɛnʃən/, reflection /ɹɪˈflɛkʃən/, capture /ˈkæp.(t)ʃɚ/, possession /pəˈzɛʃn̩/
- Lange woorden — let op de klemtoon: psychology /saɪˈkɑ.lə.d͡ʒi/, incredibly /ɪŋˈkɹɛdɪbli/, architecture /ˈɑː.kɪˌtɛk.t͡ʃə/, ordinary /ˈɔɹdɪnɛɹi/, consideration /kənˌsɪd.əˈɹeɪ.ʃən/
Zo oefen je met deze video
- Luister de hele video één keer zonder te spreken en noteer de woorden die je niet kent.
- Begin op 0,75× snelheid, spreek zin voor zin na en ga terug naar normale snelheid zodra het makkelijk gaat.
- Neem jezelf op en vergelijk met het origineel; let daarbij op woorden als singular, coat, psychology.
Wat is de Shadowing-techniek?
Shadowing is een wetenschappelijk onderbouwde taalleermethode die oorspronkelijk is ontwikkeld voor professionele tolkentraining en gepopulariseerd door polyglot Dr. Alexander Arguelles. De methode is eenvoudig maar krachtig: je luistert naar native Engelse audio en herhaalt het onmiddellijk hardop — als een schaduw die de spreker volgt met slechts 1–2 seconden vertraging. In tegenstelling tot passief luisteren of grammaticadrills, dwingt shadowing je hersenen en mondspieren om echte spraakpatronen tegelijkertijd te verwerken en te reproduceren. Onderzoek toont aan dat het de uitspraaknauwkeurigheid, intonatie, ritme, verbonden spraak, luisterbegrip en spreekvaardigheid aanzienlijk verbetert — waardoor het een van de meest effectieve methoden is voor IELTS Speaking-voorbereiding en echte Engelse communicatie.