Shadowing Practice: Building the future of agentic infrastructure - Learn English Speaking with Video
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171 משפטים
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1
You can tell we’re API nerds, because we're saying agents should talk to each other through API.
2
It's been a crazy six months.
3
Because I think if we look back six months, most of what the Claude Platform was, was an API that got you access to inference and tokens.
4
And out of the model and sure, we had started to build some interesting tools around the model that could get you more intelligence, or could help you lower your costs or get more speed.
5
But I think of late we've started to launch some really rich features within the platform that help you get a ton more out of the model that help take infrastructure problems off your hands, and help take harness engineering problems off your hands so that you can really get that intelligence, at a much lower cost for your team.
6
Angela, what has been some of the most interesting feedback patterns you've seen from customers?
7
I think the most exciting ones have been around managed agents, which has been really awesome, and I know you, obviously product manage to manage agents.
8
But it's been great.
9
I think the feedback, has been really awesome, especially around concepts like memory and concepts like outcomes and dreaming.
10
But I think my favorite one actually is a bit old school, but, I did hear a developer who was using it say they just really love the abstraction levels.
11
And, that always warms my heart a little bit.
12
Even as these workflows are evolving, there's still this concept of agent identity.
13
And so how do we think about the idea of workflows combined with agent identity?
14
Yeah, I think agent Identity will actually probably need to be almost somewhat separate.
15
Like almost the agent needs to have its own identity.
16
I think today it's still a little bit early.
17
People are still discovering interesting use cases, and there's still a lot of trust that you need to give an agent.
18
But I think increasingly that agent identity is closer to something where the agent listens to an outcome that you want, and then it probably comes back to you and asks like, hey, in order to accomplish the outcome that you gave me, I need access to A, B, C, and D, and you may say, you know, A, B, and C are okay, but I don't want you to touch D, and then the agent is able to go and see if you can accomplish that.
19
And then when it does do that, it's able to kind of almost create a service account for itself.
20
And in that world then you can audit it.
21
You can make sure that, it's successfully doing the things that you want.
22
And I think that is probably closer to the operating model we’ll see with the identity layer kind of evolving.
23
So a lot of what's interesting about how agents can talk to each other is like, you can build an agent and you can expose an API, or you can expose just some mechanism by which, like another agent can talk to that agent the same way that a person might interact with that agent.
24
And we've seen people doing some really interesting stuff from this perspective, like, some folks have built on Claude managed agents within the platform, and then have built like a nice thin MCP server that they can go and expose, and then you can have another agent just know exactly how to call in to you talking to that agent.
25
And so, I think that is extremely helpful.
26
And, you know, just people have been able to do really creative stuff like that.
27
So, why are these kind of workflows legitimate now?
28
Like what had to change at the model or at the infrastructure layer for this to be possible?
29
Models have obviously just gotten better.
30
I think that's a huge part of it, because I think previously you would have had to maybe build a whole ton of scaffolding around the model and, standard operating procedure type stuff that make sure that you have, this stuff happens and then that stuff happens, right?
31
Like the nondeterminism of the model used to be a lot more problematic than it is today.
32
I think today the models are really great and can actually figure out within some reasonable guardrails, like what are the steps I need to take?
33
And what are the things that I need to do, I think they've also been able to run for longer.
34
Like we have the right infrastructure to let an agent be, ambient within a workspace, and it can get triggered by something, and then it can go off and run at some workflow for some period of time.
35
And, you know, come back when it's actually ready.
36
So I think some of this is evolution of the model.
37
I think some of this is evolution of the infrastructure in the way that people are able to actually stand up and build agents around it.
38
Angela, I would love to hear your thoughts on how this, like, nondeterminism that Katelyn is talking about has really evolved the harness layer.
39
Yeah, I think in the past, it just felt like a couple months ago, really, where people would actually create these, like, very complex boxes of business processes that they'd put together.
40
So first it needs to go through step A and then step A can only go to B if and only if all this kind of stuff.
41
And it's a very complex web of things.
42
And it ended up being like very fragile, I think.
43
in terms of an agent actually being able to exhibit the intelligence that you were hoping it to have, and you were obviously trying to automate something or make it a you know, a little bit more useful.
44
And we've kind of tried to box in a lot of the model.
45
As Katelyn mentioned, with the model getting smarter and I think more and more capable more agentic in its tool calling and also deeper in it's own reasoning.
46
It's actually able to get to a place where you can kind of start to delete some of those, you know, restrictive parts of the harness.
47
And so I see harnesses actually getting thinner and thinner over time.
48
The other thing I see is that with harnesses getting thinner, you almost have like, meta harnesses.
49
I don't know what to call those things.
50
Maybe they're like saddles or something in the future.
51
But, I do think they, they tend to combine strategies.
52
So, for example, we've seen people do really innovative stuff where it's multiple agents, and this is built into the harness in itself, but multiple agents actually compete to go try and solve a problem together.
53
And there's another instance in which, you spin up two of them, and one of them generates an idea, and then the other one's adversarial to it.
54
And there's so many other strategies you can build on top of it.
55
We recently did advisor strategy as an example, where if the model can't figure out what to do, it actually just goes, reaches out, and calls a friend, and that friend is hopefully smarter and helps it figure out.
56
So I think things like that is increasingly where harness innovation will go.
57
And we'll see a lot of, incredible ways where agents, through that expansive architecture, are able to solve more and more complex problems.
58
Yeah. I think this is, really getting to the heart of how we think about harness evolution, because, ultimately you have all these different composite strategies, and over time, we'll be evolving to having hybrids of these strategies like you could start with, the best of end, sort of like expansive approach.
59
And then once you decide on the right, framework, then you can iterate on that, single framework.
60
So you mentioned complex problems.
61
Tell me about a particularly complex problem that has inspired you recently.
62
There was this one really great hackathon winner that was super inspirational.
63
I believe it's called Urrea.
64
I might be mispronouncing that, but they, you know, had this problem where inside a bunch of different manufacturing facilities, there is this need for an expert who really understands the machinery.
65
And then you have to kind of listen to and monitor whether or not certain machines are going up or down.
66
And then you also have to then read the manuals for like that specific component inside the machine.
67
And traditionally there's one person in that factory who has figured that out over the course of maybe like 10, 15, 20 years working in that plant, and then they retire very reasonably.
68
And then you just, you don't have that expertise anymore.
69
This person was actually able to take all of these types of pieces and say, okay, if I upload the standard operating procedure, if I build in monitoring, I just attract signals from all the different types of parts of the plant.
70
Then I can actually have agents try to mimic that human judgment.
71
And it was really cool to see them actually be able to take a significant proportion of that and then build in what is basically redundancy in, you know, that person retiring and actually being able to return to that agentic system and say, okay, I can rely on this as a place to accumulate the really important, you know, factory knowledge that's necessary.
72
What about you, Katelyn?
73
What's an interesting problem you've seen solved recently?
74
Yeah. I think one of the cool things that's happening within engineering team specifically, or not even actually engineering teams just like development teams that are trying to get work done, is people are coming up with agents that are just more powerful than just, I can get some code written, like we have excellent like, Claude Code is an excellent product, a whole bunch of excellent products around, how can you actually write code?
75
And I'm seeing people now go further than that and say, okay, if I'm starting from the very beginning of a project, what are all the things that are going to have to happen in order for that work to get done?
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How do I need to think about running my development environment to actually test the code that I'm running?
77
Right? Like, How do I, you know, actually write the PR up front, like the requirements documents and then like later on verify all the QA testing sort of things that need to happen.
78
And so there's a few examples out there right now where people, in larger companies have actually put together full agenda systems and platforms.
79
That help them do pretty custom end to end development.
80
And I think a really good example is Shopify recently talked about doing this with, I think they called it River.
81
And, you know, there's been a few other examples like this.
82
And I think this is one of the evolutions that has been made possible by just the evolution of what agents are capable of.
83
So it's clear that some organizations are seeing a massive amount of ceiling raising on the problems that they're able to solve.
84
But not all organizations are feeling that.
85
So what do you think is the biggest barrier to that?
86
Actual boundaries, like the things that can get in the way for people.
87
Security and compliance guardrails that they need to have in place in order to feel comfortable, like having agents do the work that they're able to do.
88
Evals, I think is a big one, too.
89
In order to actually get the most out of the technology.
90
Security and compliance is definitely a big one here, because I think that a lot of teams are operating on, security assumptions that prevailed, you know, 20 years ago.
91
And now agents are fundamentally changing everything.
92
And along with that comes security.
93
So I think that we have a pretty fundamental idea of what makes a safe agent with strong guardrails.
94
I think pushing that concept uphill and revising the checklist, has been a bit of a, a bit of a journey.
95
Yes. Yeah. And Curious for how you think about ROI of agents and how enterprises can manage that?
96
Yeah, I think it's a very, top of mind question for a ton of different companies right now as they look at how everything is accelerating and how they can accelerate themselves.
97
I think, you know, there's a couple different ways to think about this, but I tried to kind of encourage a slightly more like simplified mental model.
98
I think oftentimes people want to jump to like, how do I agentify gigantic old school processes that I have, and maybe they have 120 of them and they want to go down the laundry list or they're like, great, this is my moment.
99
If consumer preferences are changing to fundamentally transform our entire product service.
100
And I think all those things are great, but it's obviously very hard to go through all of those.
101
And there's a very, very wide array of things there.
102
I do think that from an ROI point of view, it's easier to almost start from the individual, actually, and to be focused on how much faster that individual is getting.
103
And it sounds really almost like simple and kind of, you know, like not sophisticated enough.
104
But I actually think if you start there and you are able to accelerate that one individual, you can move from that to then a team.
105
And as you get to the team level, you start to think about the speed that you're generating there.
106
And then, and probably only then I would actually start then to encourage say, okay, if I can make this team faster, now what is my ability to take this team and think through a process across my company?
107
And realistically, a process typically requires many different teams and many different individuals who don't share standard operating procedures, who don't share maybe the exact same expertise.
108
And that's why we have all them together probably, you know, duct taping a bunch of things together.
109
But if you go through that kind of phase where you think about speed at the individual layer, team and their productivity, and then lastly followed by how you're able to string these workflows together.
110
I think you're able as a company, to basically almost light up every single bar that you eventually care about, so you can eventually make your way to that kind of list of 120 workflows that you wish you could be agentifying.
111
And I think if you think about it from that point of view, most of your ROI calculations should probably be on speed first and foremost, and productivity.
112
It tends to be much more leading and successful as the primary mechanism to take a look at as that starts to, I think, flower a little bit inside of a company, then it makes more sense to kind of transition a bit to be like, okay, well, you know, maybe there are financial metrics that I wanted to push.
113
Maybe there are, user metrics that will help drive the overall like outcome productivity that I care about.
114
And I think if leaders and companies are able to follow that kind of process.
115
They're actually able to drive more of that ROI.
116
And see, it's stage by stage.
117
Katelyn, you keep saying engineering teams and I want to double click on that and say what is an engineering team anymore?
118
So engineering team for us is a set of humans that actually doesn't look that different than an engineering team looked 6 months ago, 12 months ago.
119
You still kind of need that set of humans to understand the system that they are building, how to operate it, how to be on call when something's going wrong, all of these sorts of things.
120
But each of those humans is just insanely turbo charged by agents that can help them get their work done.
121
And so what we're kind of seeing is a bit of a shift from an engineering team that was maybe, like one technical lead who's got, you know, opinions on how we should design the system, right?
122
And then a whole bunch of engineers who are, you know, picking up tickets and getting work done to almost the whole team are people who have strong opinions on here's how we end to end build a product or build a system.
123
Here's what the technical design needs to look like.
124
And then they're kind of orchestrating their Claudes, for lack of a better term, to get the work done.
125
And so, for us, our engineering teams actually look pretty similar.
126
But they're able to just get so much more work done, than they were in the past.
127
I'm curious how you think about potential failure modes of reliance on agents in an organization?
128
I do think it does create a sense of like, hyper independence in a way that is maybe slightly false.
129
Like, you think that.
130
Of course, now everyone's a builder, so I can go and build and yes, I can like spin up like ten prototypes.
131
And for you, normally you'd be like, well, which of these options is the best option?
132
You do a little bit thinking you now have the ability to be like, well, this is cheap.
133
Like, why don't I just like launch all ten and then whichever one's the winner is the one that they will pick.
134
And so I do think it creates this like hyper independence on every single person.
135
But oftentimes, you know, I think the quality that comes together from something that's like more systematic, more holistic tends to then be a little bit harder to coordinate.
136
So I do think that's a little bit of the failure mode is like if by giving everyone hyper independence, but not necessarily organizing them together to a concrete direction, you might see like sprawl that looks a little bit like this.
137
And that can have pros and cons, but I think there's definitely failure modes that result from things like that.
138
So where do you think the puck is going?
139
What is the future of agentic development?
140
I think it's like deeply embedded inside the organization to a point where you probably don't really use tools in the way that's like so obviously instantiated.
141
And what I mean by that is you know, today we all are reaching for this agentic tool or that agentic tool.
142
And this one's good at this and that's good at that.
143
And I think in the future it'll be closer to like maybe there's some common substrate where we all kind of engage.
144
It's like familiar interfaces and everything like that.
145
But you kind of are just able to kind of tag an agent, spin it up and down as you see fit, and it just does a lot of like work by itself invisibly.
146
And so and it might even actually be proactive.
147
Maybe it's the one coming to you and saying, hey, you know, we noticed this thing went down.
148
And so I dug into the details and I figured it out and I fixed it.
149
And here's the PR maybe you want to review it.
150
And maybe you even told it, like next time in the future for things so small, don't bother me.
151
Just go ahead and, like, ship it.
152
And I think it'll look a little bit like that where it almost feels like, almost like an invisible like substrate that you engage with.
153
And in that world, I think that every person ends up being at a place where they almost kind of like, are able to build kind of team oriented agents, but maybe not in the sense of like it's like another team mate, but more that like the team orientation of some workflow that say, you and I have there's an agent for that, and it's able to actually map to the kind of preferences the two of us have been in.
154
The three of us have a team based agent and it like, understands a slightly different preference, and it starts to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps that are necessary.
155
And again, I think still have the common interfaces and things we have, but we might see it a bit more of as like an operating system or, or something like that instead of, specific tools that we actively reach out for.
156
And how do you think Claude Platform will help us get to that vision?
157
Yeah, I think one of the bigger things that we've been kind of trying to push the boundaries on recently are some concepts, like outcomes is a big one.
158
Like we shipped in Claude managed angents this idea of an outcome where you tell Claude, like, here's what good looks like.
159
Give it a rubric.
160
How many times can it iterate to go and try and get that outcome successfully before it stops, right?
161
And I think as we evolve that concept, we'll probably get closer and closer to a world where you're talking to Claude and you're saying, I want this outcome and here's a budget.
162
Go. You know, and you don't really have to think beyond that.
163
And I think the idea of what we're trying to get out with the platform is make that so easy.
164
And being in a world where you're spinning up an agent every day because you're like, today, I have to summarize some interview notes and put together a packet of feedback, right?
165
Or something like that.
166
You can say, okay, great agents, I want notes look good, looks like this.
167
And you can spend this amount.
168
Go. Right? And then you'll get back what you want and making it so that you don't have to work harder, think hard to actually create that, is the gap that we're trying to fill.
169
Making that super easy.
170
This has been so much fun talking about the future of agents.
171
Thanks so much, guys.
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אוצר מילים והערות הגייה לשיעור הזה
שיעור הדיבור הזה ברמה C1 מבוסס על הסרטון “Building the future of agentic infrastructure”. בסרטון הזה יש 171 משפטים ו-3718 מילים לתרגול Shadowing. הדיבור נמשך 16:26. הדובר מדבר מהר, כ-226 מילים בדקה, אז צפו לצלילים מחוברים ומקוצרים. 86% מהמילים נמצאות בין 3,000 המילים הנפוצות ביותר באנגלית; כדאי ללמוד את השאר לפני שמתחילים.
אוצר מילים מרכזי בסרטון הזה
15 המילים המתקדמות ביותר בסרטון, עם ההגייה והמשמעות שלהן:
| מילה | הגייה | משמעות |
|---|---|---|
| harness פועל | /ˈhɑɹ.nəs/ | רָתַם |
| accelerate פועל | /ɪkˈsɛl.əˌɹeɪt/ | האיץ |
| substrate שם עצם | /ˈsʌbˌstɹeɪt/ | מַצָּע |
| fundamentally תואר הפועל | עֶקְרוֹנִית | |
| metric שם תואר | /ˈmɛt.ɹɪk/ | מֶטְרִי |
| retire פועל | /ɹəˈtaɪɹ/ | פרש |
| accomplish פועל | /əˈkɑm.plɪʃ/ | בִּצֵּעַ |
| abstraction שם עצם | /æbˈstɹæk.ʃn̩/ | הפשטה |
| accumulate פועל | /əˈkjuːmjʊˌleɪt/ | צָבַר, אָגַר |
| instantiate פועל | /ɪnˈstænʃieɪt/ | יצר מופע |
| summarize פועל | /ˈsʌməˌɹaɪz/ | סיכם |
| duct שם עצם | /dʌkt/ | צִנּוֹר, תְּעָלָה |
| saddle שם עצם | /ˈsæd(ə)l/ | אֻכָּף \ אוכף |
| calculation שם עצם | /ˌkælkjuˈleɪʃn̩/ | חִשׁוּב \ חישוב |
| packet שם עצם | /ˈpæk.ɪt/ | חֲבִילָה |
Phrasal verbs שתשמעו
| מילה | משמעות |
|---|---|
| figure out פועל | הֵבִין, מצא תשובה |
| go down פועל | ירד |
| come back פועל | שָׁב |
| go up פועל | עָלָה |
| pick up פועל | הרים, אסף |
| stand up פועל | קָם |
משפטים שכדאי לחזור עליהם
משפטים קצרים ושלמים מהסרטון שאפשר להשתמש בהם בשיחה יומיומית:
- I think today it's still a little bit early.
- I don't know what to call those things.
- What's an interesting problem you've seen solved recently?
דקדוק בסרטון הזה
המבנים שהדובר משתמש בהם הכי הרבה, עם המילים המדויקות מהסרטון:
| מבנה | בסרטון |
|---|---|
| הווה מושלם (Present perfect) have/has + past participle — פעולה שקרתה בעבר ועדיין יש לה חשיבות או השפעה עכשיו | It's been · we've started · has been |
| סביל (Passive voice) be + past participle — הדגש הוא על מה שקורה, לא על מי שעושה את הפעולה | is built · has been made |
| משפטי זיקה (Relative clauses) who / which + clause — מידע נוסף על אדם או דבר | agents, which has · people who have |
הגייה ששווה לשים לב אליה
הדובר משתמש ב-52 קיצורים וצורות מקוצרות, כמו don't, they're, you're. אמרו אותם בצורה הקצרה, כפי שאתם שומעים אותם.
- הצלילים של “sh” ו-“zh”: accomplish /əˈkɑm.plɪʃ/, abstraction /æbˈstɹæk.ʃn̩/, instantiate /ɪnˈstænʃieɪt/, inspirational /ˌɪnspəˈɹeɪʃənəl/, calculation /ˌkælkjuˈleɪʃn̩/
- מילים ארוכות — שימו לב להטעמה: accelerate /ɪkˈsɛl.əˌɹeɪt/, nondeterminism /nɑndəˈtɝmɪnɪzəm/, accumulate /əˈkjuːmjʊˌleɪt/, adversarial /ˌæd.vɚˈsɛɚ.i.əl/, invisibly /ɪnˈvɪzɪbli/
צלילים שדוברי עברית מתקשים בהם:
- /w/ — שפתיים מעוגלות, לא /v/: workflow /ˈwɝkfloʊ/, workspace /ˈwɝkˌspeɪs/, whichever /wɪt͡ʃˈɛvɚ/
- /æ/ — פתוח יותר מה-“אֶ” העברית, לא כמו “a” ב-“cup”: expansive /ɪkˈspænsɪv/, abstraction /æbˈstɹæk.ʃn̩/, adversarial /ˌæd.vɚˈsɛɚ.i.əl/, hackathon /ˈhæ.kə.θɑn/, instantiate /ɪnˈstænʃieɪt/
- /r/ — הלשון לא נוגעת בשום מקום, לא ה-“ר” הגרונית: harness /ˈhɑɹ.nəs/, guardrail /ˈɡɑɹdˌɹeɪl/, accelerate /ɪkˈsɛl.əˌɹeɪt/, iterate /ˈɪtəɹeɪt/, substrate /ˈsʌbˌstɹeɪt/
איך לתרגל עם הסרטון הזה
- הקשיבו לכל הסרטון פעם אחת בלי לדבר, ורשמו את המילים שאתם לא מכירים.
- התחילו במהירות 0.75×, תרגלו Shadowing משפט אחר משפט, וחזרו למהירות רגילה כשזה מרגיש קל.
- הקליטו את עצמכם והשוו למקור, תוך תשומת לב למילים כמו harness, accelerate, substrate.
מהי טכניקת השאדואינג?
שאדואינג היא טכניקת למידת שפה מבוססת מדע שפותחה במקור להכשרת מתורגמנים מקצועיים ופופולרית על ידי הפוליגלוט ד"ר אלכסנדר ארגואלס. השיטה פשוטה אך עוצמתית: אתה מקשיב לאודיו באנגלית ילידית וחוזר עליו בקול רם מיד — כמו צל העוקב אחרי הדובר עם עיכוב של 1–2 שניות בלבד. בניגוד להאזנה פסיבית או תרגילי דקדוק, שאדואינג מכריח את המוח והשרירים בפה לעבד ולשחזר דפוסי דיבור אמיתיים בו זמנית. מחקרים מראים שזה משפר משמעותית את דיוק ההגייה, האינטונציה, הקצב, הדיבור המחובר, הבנת השמיעה ושטף הדיבור — מה שהופך אותו לאחת השיטות היעילות ביותר להכנה לIELTS Speaking ולתקשורת באנגלית בעולם האמיתי.