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I got a lot of Democratic friends

and man they're passionate I got a lot of Republican friends man they're passionate they both are convinced

that the other side is an idiot right?

Okay so I gotta study the issues

and I gotta figure out what are the important issues and what's a biblical world view on handling these issues.

Right.

Okay?

Similarly with God.

No God, you're an accident.

I'm an accident.

No God, your birth is an accident, your death is an accident,

which means the only thing that lies between those two accidents is another accident, your life.

Chance.

Exactly, chance.

You can't live that way, I can't live that way.

What I mean is this.

He's just a chance collection of atoms.

Therefore, wow, he's got one nice backpack.

Goodbye.

I'm going to steal this sucker.

There's nothing wrong with stealing.

Oh, there are laws in the city of Philadelphia that I better not steal his backpack.

But if he's an accident and I'm an accident, morality is relative at best.

And for me to steal his backpack, there's nothing wrong, objectively wrong with it.

See what I mean?

socially wrong but not objective exactly thank you sir for listening

so well socially wrong according to our society

but not objectively wrong exactly right make sense okay

so now what i've got to do is i've got to ask myself is it more reasonable

now here's the issue remember you you got you got it real right i hate the word proof

because i can't do it and i get sick and tired of people saying, oh, I can prove this and prove that.

Buddy, you can't prove to me that your eyesight picks up reality.

As a student at Columbia put it to me, he said, Cliff, prove to me

that a very intelligent scientist this morning did not put you together and your brain together in a big vat.

And I thought he was playing games with me.

No. He just came out of humanities and philosophy class.

And he was struggling with epistemological nihilism.

How do you know anything?

How do you know?

Can you prove that your eyesight tells you the truth about reality?

You can't prove it.

Is there a bunch of evidence?

Yeah, you better believe it.

That's why my fist is going to stop right here.

Because the evidence is his handsome face starts there.

And I better not just swing through it.

Okay, so the evidence is God exists.

Moral absolutes, order and design not coming about by chance out of chaos.

reason, not coming from non -reason, but coming from reason, the anthropic principle,

which is basically, if the sun was a little closer to the earth, we'd all fry.

Exactly.

I mean, if the laws of nature were not the way they are, this man and I would never have been born.

life would fall apart if there was not an incredible precision to the laws of nature

so there's got to be some type of mind behind it all and then when it comes to jesus gosh

you look at his lifestyle

you look at his ethical teachings the sermon on the mount just guys just read don't take

it from me read for yourself matthew chapter 5 6 and 7 It's incredible.

Whoever put that together was a stinking ethical genius.

So that's evidence that he's reliable.

And then you watch the way he dies, forgiving his enemies.

You watch the way he rises from the dead.

Sir, if you die and rise from the dead, you know what I'm going to do.

I'm going to listen very carefully to everything you have to say.

I would hope so.

Yeah, exactly.

Because the evidence says you are in touch with reality.

You were dead, and you came back from the dead?

Whoa.

Well, that's why I believe in Jesus, because he was dead and he came back from the dead.

Whoa.

Putting your faith in him is very wise. Does that make sense?

I can rationalize with that.

Okay, tell me, what are some of the other obstacles that you find so challenging to overcome?

So, in terms of obstacles, there's the problem with convenience that I have with just living my life as it is.

Maybe absolute truths are not worth seeking if they are not tangible.

Maybe they are too metaphysical to actually come to conclusion with because people will debate for on forever.

Yeah.

And it's been that way for 2 ,000 years.

Right.

3 ,000 maybe.

And I understand that with my.. within my lifetime i don't believe

that this debate will actually end so right

when i project my life into believing values

and what could be true yeah what's what kind of evidence i can rely on

when i believe in my set values what i can build my foundation off of in my early 20s

i would like to know

if you have any advice for somebody like me

that's trying to learn how to be intellectually honest in learning about the truth and not be lazy and conventional.

Man, I like you.

If you are a typical Drexel student, this is a fine university.

They're teaching you to think.

All right, just give me the first point you were making.

To clear the thing at all, it is very conventional and easy for me to live the way I am without seeking out more options.

And very convenient for me as well.

I don't wanna be that way.

How do I build up my intellectual honesty and my build up in my early 20s?

All right.

You see, what I notice is, because of your sharp intellect, you like the word proof, and that's fine, okay?

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I don't mean to minimize that.

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Right.

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But now what you gotta figure out is, are there different forms of knowledge?

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Okay?

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Many people in our culture say, no, there's only one form of knowledge, science.

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You're right.

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Troy Van Voorhis, who's a chemistry professor at MIT, stood in front of a group of people there at MIT and said,

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if you ask me, Troy, why is your shirt blue?

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I could first of all say, if you extract the dye from this shirt, you will understand why it's blue.

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That's a scientific, materialistic answer.

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But I could also say, my shirt is blue because my wife likes me in blue.

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That is a relational answer.

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Exactly.

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Thank you.

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Which is also true.

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Both statements are true.

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But they are in different areas of knowledge.

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Scientific knowledge, personal, relational knowledge. Can you scientifically prove

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that your roommate is not gonna stick a knife in your back as you're lying asleep on your bed?

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No, but relationally, hopefully you know, the evidence is Drexel does not accept murderers to be students here,

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and the evidence of my roommate is he's not gonna do that to me.

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You will go to sleep, not terrorize that he might stick a knife in your back

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but confident no this dude's reliable therefore i can go to sleep without checking his back pockets

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and his jacket hanging in the closet

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so remember you've got scientific truth you've got personal relational truth

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you also have historical truth can you scientifically prove to me that george washington was the first president of the united states

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Can you scientifically prove that?

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Correct.

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But what's scientific knowledge based on?

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Repeatability of an experiment.

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If you can do the experiment at Drexel, but you can't do it in London, England, it's not science.

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You've got to be able to repeat that son of a gun.

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Scientific knowledge is based on repeatability of an experiment that you can observe and verify.

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historical knowledge has nothing to do with repeatability

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you don't get George Washington back to the lab here at Drexel every fall and have him inaugurated for his president

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United States not going to work is historical knowledge legitimate yes

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but what's it based on records good eyewitness testimony somebody saw Washington inaugurated they wrote what they saw

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and we study it

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and they even charge money for you guys to study history at drexel what a bunch of twits

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no they're not twits they understand that historical knowledge is a legitimate form of knowledge

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so you see you've got different forms of knowledge scientific personal experiential historical mathematical knowledge

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now

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when you look at the whole thing

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i am convinced jesus christ is the most credible answer to who made it this way

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does love mean something to you yes sir same here to

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be honest with you e equals mc squared is nothing compared to the love

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that my wife my children my friends have for me

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And I think you're not too different from me.

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So remember, love is one of the strongest pieces of evidence that there's more to reality than just science.

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You're a person with the ability to love, to receive love, to celebrate, to be celebrated.

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And that's good.

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It's often called a party.

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We like parties.

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Make sense?

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Man, it's been an honor to talk with you, sir.

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It's been an honor, sir.

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Thank you so much.

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Good to see you.

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So I identify as an atheist.

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There was a time in my life where I might have been an agnostic.

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I was questioning, you know, why a lot, you know, what started the universe.

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I personally believe that my scientific understanding of the universe trumps my spiritual understanding of the universe and I feel as though,

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as I respect a lot of people who follow religion,

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I feel as though I don't feel the same drive within myself to believe over a scientific understanding.

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So I'll give an example.

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When I was 10 years old, I saw what some people would consider a religious miracle by your standards probably.

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I was in my bedroom going to sleep.

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It was the night before Christmas and I saw the nativity scene in my bedroom.

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It was a glowing sort of visualization

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that I saw in the corner of my bedroom and it looked so real to me.

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And then I went to sleep.

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And to me, I think, wow, that was a really weird psychological hallucination.

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That was a really weird way of my mind playing tricks on me.

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Something that I know psychologically can happen.

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Yep.

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You know, you were just talking about, you know, What is something that you can know?

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What can you know?

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And I don't want to claim that I know that God exists or God doesn't.

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It is just I prescribe myself to the belief that he doesn't

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because why should I trump my own judgment over that this was a psychological phenomenon rather than a religious phenomenon?

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Thank you.

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I like the way you think.

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I hope you realize that one of my pieces of evidence that God exists is not, I saw the Virgin Mary,

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I saw the creche, I saw the little

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Christ child in a dream I had.

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That could just be me having indigestion.

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For me to use that as evidence that God exists, I find to be embarrassing.

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That's why you will never hear me use that. Or Stuart.

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No. We don't know whether that dream was a result of low blood pressure, high blood pressure, indigestion, or whatever.

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So to believe that God exists because of that is ridiculous.

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Second point, you are a real evidentialist.

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You like science.

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Okay then, if you say there's not enough evidence that God exists, therefore I'm an atheist, or there's not enough evidence that Jesus is the truth,

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what is the object that you have put your faith in that is supported by enough evidence?

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What do you mean by object?

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I believe in scientific objectivity.

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You have faith.

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I have faith.

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You obviously are dressed a certain way.

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I'm dressed a certain way.

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You have a world view of what's good and evil, what's just versus unjust.

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You have motives in life, ambitions.

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You have goals.

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You're a pretty motivated guy.

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What are you living for?

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What's the object of your faith?

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In other words, what are you living for?

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And the person who says to me, oh, no, no, no, Cliff, I don't live for anything,

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and I don't really have an idol or a god.

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I like to point out to them, you're lying to yourself and to me.

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All you've got to do is ask yourself, what do I sacrifice the most effort, work, and money for?

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That's your idol.

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Now, obviously, you sacrifice a lot of work, effort, and money for something or someone.

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A second way to answer the question is, who determines, who writes your values, your philosophy of life?

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That's your idol.

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That's your God.

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Maybe you do it.

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Maybe the culture does it.

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Maybe the intellectual elite do it.

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I don't know.

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You've got to answer that one, and that's what I'm asking you.

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Who or what is the object or the source of your values,

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your philosophy of life, your priorities? Does that make sense?

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Yeah.

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So I would say that I believe my values

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and what I.. you know hold dear to my heart are the things

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that I've been taught you know I believe

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that I've been nurtured into who I am I believe

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that who I am is a product of my environment

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and the people who raised me and I think I am simply a product of

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that natural phenomenon we're raised by our parents

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they were raised by their parents it's a natural evolution of social norms

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and so I would say that I am a product of my environment.

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And I sort of want to ask you a question.

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What makes you choose your belief system over, say, a different religious belief system?

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Because I understand maybe having a devout feeling that there is an order to the universe and there is a God.

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But what makes you think that you're right?

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You know, obviously you're a very motivated guy, too, because you're out here doing this.

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What makes you so confident that you are right over, you know, millions of people?

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I am not standing out here saying, I am right.

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I am standing out here saying, Jesus Christ is right.

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I'm out here saying, if you put your faith in me, you are a fool.

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because the evidence is I can be very unreliable.

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The evidence is often I know the good that I should do, and I don't.

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I do the opposite, and I experience guilt.

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The evidence is I've got a little bit of knowledge, but gosh, there's so many unanswered questions in this head.

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It's incredible.

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So for me to put my faith in myself would be a really dumb move.

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But when I look at Jesus Christ, at his lifestyle, the way he treated people at his ethical teachings at his death

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and his resurrection whoa you talk about impressive you talk about integrity you talk about he teaches one thing

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and he lives up to it

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incredible so that's why i point people not to me

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but to christ now why am i convinced

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that he is superior why do i think you're making a humongous mistake

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when you say i put my faith in what my culture has taught me

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you have heard about abraham lincoln right yeah do you think the civil war was just ethnocentric do you think

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that was just lincoln saying my culture in the north is right

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and your culture in the south is wrong you think

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that's what motivated lincoln to fight the civil war i don't think

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so instead i think abraham lincoln had a conscience and a rational mind

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And in spite of the fact

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that half of the United States was saying slavery is very important and the other half was saying it's not important,

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Lincoln said, I will follow my conscience.

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I will follow what I am convinced are moral absolutes.

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And therefore, I will call men and women to put their lives on the line in order to abolish slavery.

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Pretty gutsy move.

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If that's just based on ethnocentrism, he's an arrogant twit.

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My culture's right.

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Your culture's wrong.

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Oh, give me a break.

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Who do you think you are?

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No. Lincoln understood.

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God has created all people in his image.

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Therefore, all human beings have equal value, worth, and dignity.

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But you see, if atheism is true, she is a good -looking hunk of meat on a hoof.

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She's a good -looking hunk of meat on a hoof.

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And I am a not -so -good -looking hunk of meat on a hoof.

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which means these two are valuable and i'm trash you know what it's like to go into a frat party

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as a woman and walk past the line of guys who are whispering to each other

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two four six oh eight whoa ten do you know how dehumanizing that is

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Do you know how cultural that is?

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If you don't understand that, take a quick trip up to Cornell University in Ithaca,

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New York, and find out what's happening at Cornell. But guess what?

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It's not just Cornell, guys.

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It's every campus in the United States.

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Let's be honest.

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Okay, what is the basis of human value?

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And if there is no God, your number came up in a Monte Carlo game, you're a cheap accident, and that's all I am.

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My number came up in a Monte Carlo game, I'm a cheap accident.

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But if there is a God who created this man in his image and created me in his image,

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then any racist attitude I have towards this man is objectively,

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not subjectively, not relatively, it's objectively evil.

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Because God made him, God made her, God made him, God made me, and that is why respecting each other,

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loving each other, forgiving each other makes sense.

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But if you're an atheist, there are no objective morals, there's no objective basis for human worth, it's all a crapshoot, whatever you want.

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And my point is, my atheist friends are intellectual hypocrites because they say, that's right, Cliff, no God, morality is relative.

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But then they act as if racism is really evil.

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Sorry, if there is no God, racism is culturally evil if you live in the North.

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But if you live in the South, so be it.

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If you live in apartheid

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South Africa, so be it.

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just live out what you believe does that make sense yeah i would say

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that the moral relativity is something that i prescribe to i think i think

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that i believe in a moral relativism and i think

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that in a lot of ways religion does have a lot of beneficial things in

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that aspect but i also disagree with a lot of religious teachings you know in a variety of religion

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So I would say that, yeah, there's a lot of guidance that can come from religion, but there can also be like a misinterpretation.

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Yes.

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Like the misuse of the word of God.

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Yep.

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And so I would say that I understand that people are flawed.

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It's who we are.

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And so somebody might say, oh, yeah, like I'll say this, but I'm a hypocrite, so I'll say that.

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But I don't think that is unique to the fact that I don't believe in God.

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I think that's just something that is human.

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I guess, yeah, you can respond to that.

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All right, Stuart, come here and start dialoguing with this gentleman, will you please?

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You started with science.

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Okay, well, why in the world in the 16th and 17th centuries, so Galileo, Kepler, Newton, the father of modern science,

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he wrote more on Christianity than he did on science.

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Like most scientists don't know this or they try and cover it up.

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And C .S.

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Lewis, one of the great, greatest authors who's ever lived, talked about, yes, scientists were looking at a creative God.

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And so they wanted to be creative in knowing that there is a creator out there who designed this place.

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And so if modern science wasn't started by Christians, I don't know if it ever would have come about.

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Maybe.

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But they were looking for a moral law giver because they saw things like moral law,

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like Cliff has been talking about for the last 10 minutes, about this is really right, this is really wrong, objectively.

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So it was reinforcing what modern science and Christianity were in tandem perfectly,

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because something can't come from nothing, Galileo was saying.

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Scripture would back up why things like, obviously, human rights are correct.

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If you are raised red tooth

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and claw you should not be loving somebody else you should simply be living to survive

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and dominate the strong eat the weak so

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if i'm living according to just evolutionary theory my aunt who has the education of a fourth grader

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she has special needs i should say that she's a suck on society

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and i should just put her in a home

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and talk to her once a year i mean why does she have as much value as me

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that doesn't make any sense each individual is able to make their own decisions on

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that value system so if you love your aunt then you can put value in her

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but I don't love your aunt so I'm not gonna say

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that she's a suck on society but I'm not gonna have

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that same connection to her you know I'm not gonna say

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that she's any less of a human than anybody else I'm not gonna say

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that anybody is worthy or less worthy of anything but I'll say

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that I think as people we treat each other as we want to be treated

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so the the part of me that is the most spiritual is the idea

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that what we put into the world comes back to us

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and that the the substance that creates the fabric of this social dynamic

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that allows us to be good to one another is our desire to be treated as we treat each other

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so if i want to be treated in a certain way i will treat my fellow humans in

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that way because I see myself in them and so I want them to treat me in that same way.

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So I have a sort of theory of like you know everything is is done for personal gain and and everything

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that we do whether whether you know it seems like a empathetic decision we make you know maybe I'd choose to

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you know, support someone, whether financially, emotionally, that is because I want to feel good about myself.

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And so I think you as a human,

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you support your aunt because you think that that conforms to your idea of who you want to be as a person,

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not because God made you love her, you know?

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No, that's a free will choice.

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God gave me a free will.

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Jesus Christ died on the cross for me.

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So he says love is the most important thing in this universe.

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And he showed it not through lip service, but dying on a cross for somebody.

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That's why we live human rights out based off of the Christian worldview.

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Look, if you're an atheist, you shouldn't be compassionate.

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You shouldn't live by human rights.

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You could say that's your value system, but again, that's just relative.

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And that's not in line with the powerful dominating the weak.

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It's just Nietzsche, Friedrich Nietzsche, who was the most impactful atheist on our society, in history, just our society,

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would say you're calling yourself an atheist when really you're just living as a Christian.

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That's why Richard Dawkins himself recently called himself a cultural Christian.

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And it took him how many years to get there?

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So I'm simply saying, if Nietzsche was standing right here, he would call you out as an atheist.

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He's obviously an atheist.

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He impacted Hitler greatly.

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He would say, you need to live more in line with an atheistic worldview you?

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To me, being a Christian requires me to believe in Christ.

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And so, you know, I have many friends who are religious.

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They put themselves in the box.

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But when I talk to them more deeply about, you know, what do you get out of this religion?

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They kind of say, well, it's more of a community thing.

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It's more of a value system.

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And I'm like, that's great.

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I'm glad you have that in your life.

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That's a really valuable thing.

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But you don't need to put that in the box of Christianity, Islam, like anything.

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You can just call that, you know, your personal values.

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And we can all conform to our own value system.

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And, you know, if you want to break from your own value system and be like, wait, let me reconsider that.

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I don't need to be like, oh, I'm defying God's word.

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You know, I can just be like, well, I've reconsidered.

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You know, I don't understand why I need to put myself in a box of, oh, I am a cultural Christian.

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Because I don't believe in Christ.

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Well, you don't have to.

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That's the whole thing you don't need to live by a virtue system and say, hey, this is the virtue Christian system that's all MAGA.

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You know, a Christian is MAGA, obviously.

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A Christian is a white supremacist, obviously.

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No, these are all categories that people make up in their mind.

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Obviously, somebody who's a white supremacist, how does that fit with Jesus Christ?

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They're the exact opposite.

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And so labels saying this is just a value system, I think those

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Christians are dead wrong, dead wrong.

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My value system comes from the historical evidence of who Jesus was, how he lived, taught, died, and rose from the dead.

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Then, believing that he is the Son of God, now I assume, yes, obviously, if he's the Son of God, I better adopt his values.

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So it's not just a random, like, hey, here's

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Buddhism, here's Hinduism, hey, I was a brought -up Christian.

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These are all just value systems, and I'm just going to live by one.

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conforming to a religion and prescribing to the religious idea

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that there is a life after death

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and all of this stuff is founded in love and the love of God and you are created.

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It's very comforting.

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And that is, in many ways, the strongest reason for my doubt in religion.

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Oh, okay.

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Is because of the psychological comfort that is derived from it.

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It feels so innately human to be comforted by the idea that there is something after death, that there is something to give us meaning.

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And so to me, it just feels like, yeah, of course people want to believe this.

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Of course, there's so many different religions

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all coming to the same idea of there is something after death because it is just a human comfort, not a truth.

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Go ahead.

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That's a great point.

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All right, so

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Christians are afraid of the darkness.

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Atheists are afraid of the light.

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They're afraid of truth.

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Atheists are afraid and don't want God to hold them accountable.

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They want to be their own gods.

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Absolutely, 110%.

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I find comfort, like

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Martin Luther said, yes, in life beyond the grave.

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You find comfort, just like most of my atheist friends do,

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in, hey, hey, I can make up my own meaning and I'm not held accountable by anybody.

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So I can be like the USSR guard who said I can torture this poor innocent man to death

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because there's no ultimate accountability.

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I make up my own accountability.

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And if I despise him because he's part of the other, he's an enemy, then I'm going to do whatever I want to him.

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And why not?

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I'm just setting the rules.

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I set the rules.

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I do what I want.

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And that's why Dostoevsky said, if there is no God, all things are permissible.

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Do whatever you want.

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And Nietzsche said the same thing.

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He said, we killed God.

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I'm glad we did.

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But watch what happens.

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I don't think I find any comfort in believing that there is no God.

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I think that's honestly a very scary thing.

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Like death is so much scarier when you think it's final.

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And all you have is this life.

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And you've got to make the most of it.

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And you can't get a redo.

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You can't get life after death.

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Or there's no way to live on.

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That's scary.

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That's extremely scary.

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And I understand the point you're making about, like, you know, maybe I have like an egoist mentality that,

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like, you know, I like being in charge.

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I want to be controlling of my own life.

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And that definitely makes sense.

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I agree.

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But I think that, you know, the idea that death is final trumps that in every sense.

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And my friends who are atheists are hedonists.

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They live for pleasure.

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I know scientists who have honestly stated, I don't want to believe in God because I want to sleep around.

464

I had a Yale student recently just pummel me with all these questions about, there's no way Jesus is the son of God.

465

No way.

466

This, that, and the other.

467

Finally, we finished our discussion.

468

Yale, super bright guy.

469

And I go, are you sure this isn't an emotional issue with you, like a volitional issue?

470

And he said, fine, you're right.

471

I just want to sleep around.

472

And the guy's honesty was amazing.

473

He said, I realize there's good evidence for Christianity,

474

but I'm never going to believe because I don't want there to be any accountability for my life.

475

And a lot of atheists, if they're honest and they really look in the mirror every morning, that's exactly what they say.

476

And you just said it.

477

There's ego.

478

It's egoistic.

479

And so it's incredibly attractive, that worldview.

480

Incredibly attractive.

481

Now, I want to go back to your original point, and then we'll go on to somebody else.

482

Science.

483

why were all the modern scientists in the 16th and 17th centuries Christians?

484

And where are the atheists?

485

And how do you get this incredible miracle?

486

You started with a miracle.

487

It is a miracle that something comes from nothing.

488

It is a miracle that we are here.

489

The chances of us being on this earth is 1 to the 10th to the 164th, which nobody can even comprehend.

490

It's impossible.

491

Thirdly, moral objectivity.

492

How do you get ought to?

493

I ought to not treat that person who's across the political aisle as an enemy.

494

Instead, I'm actually to love that person.

495

How in the world do you get intangibles like love?

496

If I go home tonight and say to my wife, hey, wifey, I don't really love you.

497

It's just my oxytocin and endorphins and dopamine that are forcing me to love you at this time.

498

But if they say no, then I'm going to go cheat on you because I am completely determined by all my chemicals in here.

499

A Christian comes and says, no, yeah, you have those, and they influence you for sure.

500

But there's something beyond that.

501

We know love is an intangible beyond just the dopamine kick, if we're honest.

502

So you see, you as a scientist or a scientific -minded person, it stacks up.

503

There's way less miracles, according to you, in the Christian faith than the atheistic faith.

504

You have to live by a miracle every single day.

505

You have to say, look at how I'm put together.

506

Why am I put together so nicely in this creative type of way?

507

If you just came up by chance and total entropy, you should be a complete mess.

508

You shouldn't have drive and objective purpose in this life.

509

But you live as if you do.

510

And so these scientists came along and said, it's time to wake up, atheists.

511

It's time to wake up.

512

There is a creator, there's a creative process in this world, and you cannot explain it from an atheistic point of view.

513

I have one question for you before I go.

514

So what do you think created, like I'm not extremely familiar with religion, but what created God?

515

Because you were asking, you were like, oh, you can go back forever.

516

What created God?

517

You asked what created the universe, what created God?

518

Anything that has a beginning, there has to be a beginner.

519

Okay, so if you walk in over here, the door's about to slam, there's going to be a big bang, right?

520

Well, no, it's held open, it's automatic.

521

If it came back and slammed, you'd be like, there's a big banger.

522

Okay?

523

This universe had a beginning, started with a big bang.

524

The Bible is the only comprehensive worldview that got that right in the beginning.

525

Every other worldview at that time said it's either cyclical or eternal.

526

Science today says, no, there was a beginning.

527

Anything that has a beginning must have a cause.

528

What is that cause?

529

Well, it's something that has to be infinite outside of space and time to create space and time.

530

It can't just be an infinite regress.

531

And this something has to be all powerful in order to create.

532

Omniscient, knowing how to create.

533

And personal, to say, I'm going to make this decision to create.

534

It can't just be, we talked earlier, it can't just be gravity up there.

535

It can't just be some light.

536

That's not personal.

537

It can't make the decision to create.

538

And so I would posit that that is God.

539

It's more than just a computer, right?

540

A computer can't decide to create. Does that make sense?

541

So nobody created God.

542

He's outside of space and time.

543

Because we are locked inside of space and time, you have to have something outside of space and time to create space and time.

544

Why do you think it manifests in God?

545

You can call it an intelligent being with a personal nature.

546

You don't have to call it the Judeo -Christian God.

547

But some type of intelligent being that made the decision to create.

548

That seems plausible to me.

549

But why Christ?

550

Why not Hinduism?

551

Why not anything else?

552

Did Cliff talk about this?

553

He didn't talk about it?

554

Not really.

555

Okay, why Christ?

556

It's very similar to Shakespeare.

557

Shakespeare punched a hole through space and time.

558

Hamlet comes in.

559

So basically he is Hamlet in many ways in order to connect with the world of Shakespeare, right?

560

And so this is what God does.

561

He punches a hole through space and time, writes himself into the play, which is humanity, in order to connect with us.

562

All right, fine, Stuart.

563

Interesting idea.

564

What's the evidence for that?

565

The evidence for it is Jesus Christ, obviously a historical figure.

566

Just about every single professor on this campus would say, yes, Jesus Christ was a historical figure.

567

The majority would say, yes, he claimed to be God.

568

The majority would say, yes, he lived a very impressive life.

569

The majority would say, yes, about 34%, 35 % of the world is Christian.

570

But where do they stop?

571

The supernatural.

572

They'll say, okay, very convincing this faith and very convincing that there's so many sources appealing to the supernatural resurrection that had occurred,

573

but it's a supernatural man.

574

David Hume, he had the impact on us more than so than we ever realized.

575

Atheists, he said no miracles.

576

It's impossible.

577

No supernatural.

578

Impossible.

579

So automatically we discount miracles.

580

You know what's so funny about that?

581

A recent poll was taken just in Asia alone.

582

Over 400 million people claim to have had a supernatural miraculous experience in their life.

583

So why are we here in America taking this elitist position of saying miracles don't happen

584

When have you talked to over 400 million of those in Asia alone who claimed, have you talked to any one of them?

585

Are they all hallucinating?

586

Are they all on drug trips?

587

Are they all just delusional and need to be in a psych facility?

588

I don't think so.

589

I think they're probably getting on to something.

590

And so Jesus Christ, endless amounts of sources behind who he was, what he did, and how he rose from the dead.

591

Jews would have been the very last people to ever believe that somebody would come back from the dead,

592

especially one person and not a general revelation like everybody coming back.

593

They would have had more hoops to jump through than you and I to believe in that.

594

Overnight, thousands were coming to believe that he was the Son of God.

595

Oh, Stuart, well, it was just a power play, some atheists will say.

596

A power play?

597

They gave up their land, their money, their families, and their very own lives because they said, eyewitness testimony, we have to believe in this.

598

The life change of his closest followers who kept denying that he was God.

599

His own parents said he was insane in the Gospel of Luke.

600

But then everybody's willing to die all of a sudden because they saw this resurrection?

601

And so within the Bible, you have endless amounts of sources claiming, hey, go check with Simon of Cyrene.

602

He's from Cyrene, father of Alexander and Rufus.

603

Go check with Malchus and all these different names as footnotes to, hey, don't blindly believe.

604

You better go check with these guys and see what the evidence is.

605

That's why the Gospel of Luke starts off with, I did not follow cleverly invented stories.

606

dear theophilus i've checked this out myself as a doctor

607

because i don't want to blindly believe this you have doubting thomas

608

he didn't just come blindly gullibly say oh yeah of course i believe

609

no he comes and he doubts but then he grabs christ

610

and then he gets the eyewitness testimony from his friends

611

because he wasn't there and then jesus says hey stop doubting

612

and believe you got the dna evidence

613

and the eyewitness testimony the top two forms of evidence that are in the court of law.

614

But it was a really good trick.

615

It could have been a party trick.

616

So he fooled that many people.

617

Maybe.

618

Do you think the evidence is strong enough for that case?

619

But it's what the entire evidence hinges on.

620

So again, you're saying all these people were just delusional.

621

Not delusional.

622

And were willing to go to their graves for what they knew to be a lie.

623

Nobody dies.

624

You know, you're, are you into psychology?

625

It sounds like you are a little bit.

626

Okay.

627

You know, nobody dies for what they know for what they know to be alive.

628

Some people will fly planes into buildings and be like, hey, we just believe in this principle and

629

that we're going to heaven immediately and that we're going to get virgins by doing so.

630

That's not dying for what they know to be alive.

631

They believe in that.

632

All of these people, when I was standing in the Roman Colosseum, 360 ,000 Christians died within a period of about 80 years, torn to pieces.

633

Even the atheist tour guides are like, yeah, we can't explain it.

634

It's crazy.

635

I don't really want to talk about it.

636

I don't know why this many people would die for what they knew to be alive.

637

And the majority of those tourist guides are Christians because they just, they see that.

638

So again, anything is possible, man.

639

Now the question is though, if you're an evidentialist, I hope you follow the evidence to the point of saying, hey, what's most likely to believe?

640

And don't do it, like you said, don't do it for comfort.

641

If it's just for comfort, say, hey, maybe I'll take a little bit here and there.

642

A little antidepressants here, because it's hope.

643

But no, don't come to it because it's just comfortable.

644

Come to it because it's the truth.

645

Thank you.

646

Thank you very much.

647

Thank you so much, brother.

648

Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode.

649

Like and hit that subscribe button in order to join the family.

650

Also want to invite you to our church where we pastor at in New Canaan, Connecticut.

651

It's called Grace Community Church.

652

We are currently meeting at a middle school, Saks Middle School, and we start at 9 .30 a .m.

653

Hope to meet you there.

654

See you soon.

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이 레슨의 어휘와 말하기 포인트

이 말하기 레슨은 영상 “Stuart & Cliffe Knechtle”을(를) 바탕으로 합니다. 이 영상에는 섀도잉할 문장 654개와 단어 6798개가 있습니다. 말하는 구간의 길이는 40:46입니다. 화자는 분당 약 167단어로, 일상 대화에 가까운 자연스러운 속도로 말합니다. 단어의 84%가 영어에서 가장 많이 쓰이는 3,000단어에 속합니다. 나머지는 연습 전에 미리 확인해 두세요.

이 영상의 핵심 어휘

영상에 나오는 익혀 둘 만한 단어 15개를 발음, 뜻과 함께 정리했습니다.

단어	발음	뜻
atheist 명사	/ˈeɪ.θi.ɪst/	무신론자
miracle 명사	/ˈmɪɹ.ə.kəl/	기적
convince 동사	/kənˈvɪns/	납득시키다, 확신시키다
supernatural 형용사	/ˌsu.pəɹˈnæ.tʃə.ɹəl/	초자연적인
steal 동사	/stiːl/	훔치다
objective 명사	/ɒbˈd͡ʒɛk.tɪv/	목적
testimony 명사	/ˈtɛstɪmoʊni/	증언
aunt 명사	/ɑːnt/	고모, 이모
relative 명사	/ˈɹɛl.ə.tɪv/	친척
bedroom 명사	/ˈbɛdˌɹum/	침실
belief 명사	/bɪˈliːf/	믿음
experiment 명사	/ɪkˈspɛɹ.ə.mənt/	실험
scary 형용사	/ˈskɛə.ɹi/	공포의, 무섭다
intelligent 형용사	/ɪnˈtɛlɪd͡ʒənt/	똑똑하다, 똑똑한
phenomenon 명사	/fəˈnɒm.ɪ.nən/	현상

영상에 나오는 구동사

단어	발음	뜻
come back 동사		돌아오다
put together 동사		조립하다
wake up 동사	/ˌweɪk ˈʌp/	눈뜨다, 일어나다
bring up 동사		꺼내다
come up 동사		올라오다
give up 동사		항복하다
go back 동사		돌아가다
pick up 동사		줍다

따라 말해 볼 만한 문장

영상에 나오는 짧고 완결된 문장으로, 일상 대화에서 그대로 쓸 수 있습니다:

How do you know anything?
Can you scientifically prove that?
What's the object of your faith?
You know what's so funny about that?
You know, you're, are you into psychology?

이 영상의 문법

화자가 가장 많이 쓰는 문형을 영상 속 실제 표현과 함께 정리했습니다.

문형	영상 속 표현
조건문 if + 절, will/would + 동사 — 조건과 그 결과	If it came back and slammed, you'd be
현재완료 have/has + 과거분사 — 과거의 일이 지금도 관련이 있을 때	it's been · have put · I've been taught
수동태 be + 과거분사 — 누가 하는지보다 무슨 일이 일어나는지에 초점	have been born · is based · be celebrated
관계절 who / which + 절 — 사람이나 사물에 대한 추가 정보	people who follow · person who says · people who raised

주의할 발음

화자는 don't, I'm, you're 같은 축약형과 약화된 형태를 166번 사용합니다. 들리는 대로 짧게 발음하세요.

“th” 소리: atheist /ˈeɪ.θi.ɪst/, ethical /ˈɛθɪkəl/, worthy /ˈwɝ.ði/, tooth /tuθ/
“sh”와 “zh” 소리: resurrection /ɹɛzəˈɹɛkʃən/, delusional /dɪˈluːʒənəl/, conventional /kənˈvɛnʃənl̩/, passionate /ˈpæʃənɪt/, conscience /ˈkɑn.ʃəns/
긴 단어 — 강세 위치에 주의: supernatural /ˌsu.pəɹˈnæ.tʃə.ɹəl/, testimony /ˈtɛstɪmoʊni/, experiment /ɪkˈspɛɹ.ə.mənt/, intellectual /ˌɪntəˈlɛkt͡ʃʊəl/, intelligent /ɪnˈtɛlɪd͡ʒənt/

한국어 화자가 어려워하는 소리:

/f/ — ㅍ(/p/)으로 바꾸지 말고 윗니를 아랫입술에 대기: comfort /ˈkʌm.fət/, belief /bɪˈliːf/, phenomenon /fəˈnɒm.ɪ.nən/, knife /ˈnaɪ̯f/, lifestyle /ˈlaɪfˌstaɪl/
/v/ — ㅂ(/b/)과 구별하기: convince /kənˈvɪns/, objective /ɒbˈd͡ʒɛk.tɪv/, relative /ˈɹɛl.ə.tɪv/, motivate /ˈmoʊ.tɪ.veɪt/, impressive /ɪmˈpɹɛsɪv/
/z/ — ㅈ이 아니라 성대를 울리는 /s/: resurrection /ɹɛzəˈɹɛkʃən/, racism /ˈɹeɪsɪzm̩/, lazy /ˈleɪ̯zi(ː)/, closet /ˈklɑzɪt/, observe /əbˈzɜːv/

이 영상으로 연습하는 방법

먼저 말하지 않고 영상을 끝까지 듣고 모르는 단어를 적어 둡니다.
0.75배속으로 한 문장씩 섀도잉을 시작하고, 익숙해지면 보통 속도로 돌아갑니다.
자신의 목소리를 녹음해 원본과 비교하고, atheist, miracle, convince 같은 단어에 특히 주의합니다.

쉐도잉이란? 영어 실력을 빠르게 키우는 과학적 방법

쉐도잉(Shadowing)은 원래 전문 통역사 훈련을 위해 개발된 언어 학습 기법으로, 다언어 학자인 Dr. Alexander Arguelles에 의해 대중화된 방법입니다. 핵심 원리는 간단하지만 매우 강력합니다: 원어민의 영어를 들으면서 1~2초의 짧은 지연으로 즉시 소리 내어 따라 말하는 것——마치 '그림자(shadow)'처럼 화자를 따라가는 것입니다. 문법 공부나 수동적인 청취와 달리, 쉐도잉은 뇌와 입 근육이 동시에 실시간으로 영어를 처리하고 재현하도록 훈련합니다. 연구에 따르면 이 방법은 발음 정확도, 억양, 리듬, 연음, 청취력, 말하기 유창성을 크게 향상시킵니다. IELTS 스피킹 준비와 자연스러운 영어 소통을 원하는 분들에게 특히 효과적입니다.

섀도잉 방법: 단계별 전체 가이드 읽기 →

쉐도잉 연습: Stuart & Cliffe Knechtle | Do Agnostics Just Want To Have Control? | Give Me an Answer - 영상으로 영어 말하기 배우기

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이 레슨의 어휘와 말하기 포인트

이 영상의 핵심 어휘

영상에 나오는 구동사

따라 말해 볼 만한 문장

이 영상의 문법

주의할 발음

이 영상으로 연습하는 방법

쉐도잉이란? 영어 실력을 빠르게 키우는 과학적 방법