Shadowing Practice: Quick Thinks: How to Have Better Conversations About Aging - Learn English Speaking with Video
Creating lesson...
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Be direct, clear, and empathetic.
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Don't bubble wrap your communication.
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My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
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Welcome to this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
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In my recent conversation with gerontologist Carrie Burnwright, she discussed so many useful approaches and skills that we could not capture them all in one episode.
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So here we provide more of Carrie's especially when we communicate with older people.
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In your book, you have a quiz about your mindset towards aging.
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And I, like I feel many people, have a declining mindset as you define it.
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Can you describe techniques and ways that we can flip that switch?
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Because I would much rather have a positive outlook and reap the benefits from perhaps doing so.
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Yes.
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Well, so you can think of it, your listeners can think of it, there are two options.
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aptly damn.
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And that's the prevalent.
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That is the cultural norm.
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That's our default setting.
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Then there's the growth aging mindset.
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And if you put an E on, it could be game.
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I like it.
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But the growth aging mindset, in fact, is backed by science.
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And I think that's what helps.
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This is not a put your head in the sand thing.
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This is, in fact, knowing that I am going to be able to, for example, solve problems.
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And I want to give you an example of it, because if people know this, it's going to change the way that they think about their own problem solving.
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And problem solving is something that we need all lifelong.
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So I have a colleague who has passed, but he was at Harvard and his name is Gene Cohn.
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He had a PhD MD.
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And he, every week on Wednesdays, he would pick up his parents who were in their 90s from the train station.
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He would pick them up there.
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help them with their walkers into his car, drive them to his house where they would eat dinner, and then he would drive them home afterwards one day this
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brilliant son was late his parents come up to the platform
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dumping snow they're looking around didn't have a cell phone with
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them they look over they see a pizza place they carefully walk to the pizza place
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and they say you know we'd like to order a pizza
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and Thank you and we'd like to have it delivered to our son's house.
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And when you do, we'd like to ride along with that pizza in the car.
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Oh my goodness, what a great solution.
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He gets home, his parents are there with a hot dinner ready to go.
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But if we didn't understand that we can come up with solutions
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that are not necessarily tech and we need to listen long enough to so people who are ahead of us,
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that older people come up with.
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And so often they have great solutions that we wouldn't even come up with because we're not there yet.
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So look forward to and embrace the benefits that come with age.
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Yes.
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I love that example.
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I think, you know, person and food delivery simultaneously, what a great idea.
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Thank you for that.
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Yeah.
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You, in your book, provide several examples of how we can cultivate joy in our life.
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The one that stood out the most to me and that I've enjoyed doing the most is Give of the Day.
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Can you explain this activity and share how it works?
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Yes.
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So because we know that giving really impacts the quality of our long lives, not to mention benefits others,
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the same way that we do the physical strength kinds of things.
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So when people say like, at what age should I start working on my joy span?
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I say, well, at what age do you think you should start on your cardiovascular health as early as possible?
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And what makes your life better between the ages of 23 and 24 also are the same of 93 and 94.
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So it's never too early and it's never too late.
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You can think of it almost like the way that you lift a weight and you're just doing one, you know, a few day,
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having that ability to look at your day and look for opportunities to give of yourself and that they're small.
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And so in the purpose literature,
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Stephen Cole at UCLA did a study and he looked at the epigenetics of purpose or giving or contribution.
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And what he found is all variables depression,
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in inflammation, in antiviral load.
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And it was so robust that he went right before, I think at around the same time it was published, they did a piece in the New York Times about it.
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And he's like, Wow.
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So giving makes a difference.
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So give it a day is proactively take a moment, maybe when you're having coffee, maybe when you have a little bit of downtime to think,
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what is something I can find today?
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And I'm going to give you some examples.
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You might look in your backyard and you see that there are lemons back there.
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Pick them, put them in a bag, go next door to your next door neighbor.
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Tiny.
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That takes two seconds, whether they need lemons or not.
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And that helps with social connection.
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see a mother or father wrestling with all these children you could say I Could I help for a minute?
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It's little tiny things, mentoring, listening.
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I mean, sometimes just taking the time to think I'm going to be fully present in my listening is the greatest give
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that we can give.
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But it doesn't just happen and it's not just the big moments.
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It's the little moments too.
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And when we think about giving, there is another part of the equation because it does feel good to give and we know about the giver's high.
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Thank you.
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If everybody is just giving, we have a, we don't have the other part, which is the receiving.
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And so something that we need to also learn is how to receive.
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And so that when somebody offers like, oh, your wife is sick, could I bring over dinner?
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We want to say, oh, no, no, I got it.
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But instead to go, thank you, to let, and people say, I'll be happy in longevity as long as I'm independent.
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because I know what the path looks like.
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So I like to think the reality is that we are interdependent.
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We never really were entirely independent.
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And we certainly, if we're holding our independence out as the goal, that's a little bit rougher than saying,
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I'm going to give and also receive.
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I love the activity and I really appreciate you calling it out.
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I know that in my father's life, my father has passed, but his ability to accept help,
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there was a fundamental transition when he began to accept it versus fighting it.
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And thank you for highlighting both sides of that equation.
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I want to turn our attention to communication and part of it, I want to look at your communication,
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not yours, but ours, and I'd love to get your advice.
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Many of us find ourselves needing to have very difficult conversations around aging.
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you be it talking with people about stopping driving cars, moving into assisted living, other situations.
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What advice and guidance do you have to help those of us who need to initiate those conversations
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or perhaps those who are receiving that conversation?
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What can we do to help make that happen? better and less angst and conflict filled.
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I'm so glad you asked that because it is the question that comes up every day.
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Yeah.
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And I will start with what not to do, because this is how it goes when you're a gerontologist.
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I now will pretend that you are the 90 year old father and I am your adult daughter at age 60.
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I'm concerned about something.
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And so what I do is I go in hot.
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Right.
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And I use the only model that I know, which is parenting.
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So this parenting the parent or role reversal It's not a good model because as adults,
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you as the father, you know, You're not a child and you don't want to be parented.
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The reality of aging is on the one hand, there is safety. So.
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Younger people are all about safe.
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This isn't safe.
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Safety, safety, safety.
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But it's not that that's not the whole picture.
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If you look on the other end, it's autonomy.
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Autonomy is one of the development or drivers of growing older.
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And so by going in hot that I, the adult daughter, I'm going to fix your problem.
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I'm taking away your autonomy and you, of course, your natural reaction is, you're going to be a little bit back off.
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I got this.
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I don't need any help because I've threatened you.
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So please, adult children, don't go in hot.
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And I can say this because I've done the same thing.
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My mom was in the hospital for months.
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I thought I was being so terrific.
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I got a hospital bed downstairs so she didn't have to go up the stairs, but I didn't ask her.
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So she got home and she was sick to see this So I do it wrong a lot.
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And so that's why I can say, so how do you do it right?
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Okay, let's say the conversation, is around driving.
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Please throw out this thing as, when do I take away the keys?
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I mean, that right there is the biggest red flag.
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So everyone who's having that thought, please put it away.
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Step one, just like in all communication, as you well know, is to close your mouth and to listen.
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Because then the person is not going to feel like you're coming after their autonomy
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or their personhood or that you're thinking they're less than.
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So it would be.
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A series, not just one, not this big sit down, little conversations where you go, oh, you know, you're hearing,
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let's say, your father driving and he was somewhere.
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You know, you're just talking maybe about driving.
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Right.
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So you're not going after them in any way.
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And then maybe in my case with my mom, she was having more nicks on her car.
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right so i didn't go in
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and go mom yeah oh my gosh this isn't safe you know you could kill someone look at
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that i learned to shut my mouth and say yeah Tell me more about how driving is feeling.
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And then she's looking for you to see if you're coming after her.
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Maybe that's enough for the conversation one.
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Maybe the next conversation, are there parts to it that are getting hard or are you doing fine?
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And then sometimes we can say like, oh.
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I really like, Mom, how we can talk about these things, because I know some other families, it's such contention.
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But look at us, we're just talking, because I really value you and your decision making and your problem solving.
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How did you, for example, like with your mom, what was that like?
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Right.
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So you're putting the person as they should be.
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As the, it's their life and they're ahead of you.
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And yes, you have concerns because you love them and, and you don't want rough things to happen.
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Another one is like a house.
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This is a personal example.
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My mom's house has treacherous stairs and then the most hard marble or something at the bottom.
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And so my older sister said, oh.
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Mom's going to fall down the stairs and break her neck.
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You can't let her live here by yourself.
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I can't believe you're a gerontologist and you let her do that.
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So I did hold that a bit, but then I did this advice of communication of,
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in a calm way, having conversations with my mom of saying, how do you feel on the stairs next time?
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Like what would happen if he would fall?
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Do you ever think about that?
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And my mom, because she doesn't have cognitive impairment, we can especially have.
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Sure.
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She said, you know something, Carrie, it is critically important for me to live in my house.
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And I want to tell you something.
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I probably ultimately will fall someday.
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And I know for sure I am going to die someday.
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So I want you to know in advance, you didn't do anything wrong.
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If you find me bloody on the floor, you know, that you enabled me to do what I wanted.
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Wow.
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Your mom's.
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Not the case of everybody, but in that conversation.
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And I said, oh gosh, mom, you should talk to my sister too, and to my brother and to all.
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So we had all these conversations because aging is a time of greater heterogeneity than any other time.
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Everybody's path is different.
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Everybody's family is different.
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Everybody, but the one, the result that's the same doesn't mean that you did it wrong.
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And so some of these families that I work with where they're just bubble wrapping the person into misery, I think maybe you didn't have the conversations.
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What a powerful image there.
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So many things that you said there that I want to highlight.
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But first, these conversations aren't just with the person who might be older, it's also with the others who to help take care of them.
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And you have to coordinate that.
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And I think a lot of your advice that you gave also applies to those conversations as well.
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Start with inquiry.
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understand that the conversation might be about a bigger issue than you think.
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So it's not about the car keys, it's about autonomy.
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And, break the conversation down into pieces.
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It doesn't all have to happen at once.
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And engaged the other person in the conversation.
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Wonderful advice.
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- And you will disagree.
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And that's the part to it too, is that, so then you're trying to really think through to what extent is it their life?
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And we let people do, what they want to do, even if we don't agree.
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Or then you put in the complicating, sometimes there's cognitive impairment.
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And that really complicates things because would they have chosen a different path if they didn't have some cognitive change?
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So I'm not saying it's easy.
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But I'm saying the more you dig in, the more transparent, the more multiple conversations with other family members, the better.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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I want to talk very briefly about your approach to explaining these things.
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You have a wonderful way of helping people understand very complex and in some cases, highly emotional issues.
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You use storytelling, you use exemplars, you use very vivid images.
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How do you think about making complex information more accessible to people?
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Because in a large part, that's what you do.
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How do you how do you think through that process?
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Because all of us in our lives have complex things we have to explain.
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I have.
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not a diagnosis of ADHD when I was younger and needed it.
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But I just fumbled through thinking, why can I not pace very close attention?
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And so I have a shorter attention span and I want to get to the point of quickly.
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And so my hope was that I would write a book that you could get to the point, like, what do I need to do here to make my life okay?
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Because I'm scared about growing older.
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So I just tried to write what I would want to read.
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And so in that regards, I think maybe the ADHD helped me.
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So in some ways, you know, and I feel the same way in the book, the books I write is, And I like how you use examples,
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you reinforce, you have catchy phrases, you use quotes, you give activities.
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All of those are ways to revisit the same point to really help.
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And I think all of us in the complexities that we have to describe and explain can benefit.
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Well, there you have it.
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So many useful tools and tips from Keri Burnwright.
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Please be sure to check out our full episode with Keri and give her book Joy Span a read.
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Thank you for tuning in to this Quick Thinks episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
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was produced by Katherine Reid, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
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Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
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Be sure to subscribe and rate us.
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Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram.
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And check out FasterSmarter .io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.
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please consider joining our Think Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community at fastersmarter .io /learning.
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You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, an AI coach, and book club opportunities.
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Again, that's fastersmarter .io /learning.
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Become part of our Think Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community.
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Context & Background
In the recent episode of "Quick Thinks," Matt Abrahams, a strategic communication expert from Stanford Graduate School of Business, engages in a thoughtful dialogue with gerontologist Carrie Burnwright. Their conversation provides valuable insights into effective communication, especially when discussing aging. Carrie emphasizes the importance of adopting a growth mindset regarding aging, encouraging listeners to shift away from the prevalent negative perceptions. This episode unveils techniques that can enhance our communication skills, not just with older individuals but in everyday conversations.
Top 5 Phrases for Daily Communication
- “Be direct, clear, and empathetic.” - A fundamental mantra for effective communication.
- “Flip that switch.” - A call to change negative thinking to a positive outlook.
- “Solve problems.” - Encourage a proactive approach to challenges, which is key at any age.
- “Listen long enough.” - Understanding the value of listening in conversations.
- “Embrace the benefits that come with age.” - A reminder to appreciate the wisdom and strengths gained over time.
Step-by-step Shadowing Guide
Improving your English speaking skills through the shadowing technique can significantly enhance your pronunciation and fluency. Follow these steps to practice effectively using the dialogue from this video:
- Listen Closely: Begin by listening to the conversation. Focus on the speakers' intonation, pacing, and clarity.
- Choose a Relevant Phrase: Pick one of the top phrases listed. For example, “Be direct, clear, and empathetic.”
- Repeat Aloud: Repeat the chosen phrase after the speaker. This will help you improve English pronunciation and develop rhythm in your speech.
- Record Yourself: Use your smartphone to record your voice as you replicate the phrases. Listen to your recordings and compare them to the original.
- Practice Daily: Incorporate this shadow speak exercise into your daily routine for IELTS speaking practice. Aim for at least 10-15 minutes of focused practice each day.
By consistently employing the shadowing technique, you will not only enhance your ability to communicate effectively but also gain confidence in your conversational skills. This method enables you to tackle challenging dialogues and adapt your speaking style to different contexts, ultimately making you a more competent and compassionate communicator.
Grammar in this video
The structures the speaker uses most, with the exact words from the video:
| Structure | In the video |
|---|---|
| Present perfect have/has + past participle — a past action that still matters now | has passed · I've enjoyed · I've threatened |
| Relative clauses who / which + clause — extra information about a person or thing | people who are · part, which is · those who are |
| Passive voice be + past participle — the focus is on what happens, not who does it | is backed · was published · be parented |
What is the Shadowing Technique?
Shadowing is a science-backed language learning technique originally developed for professional interpreter training and popularized by polyglot Dr. Alexander Arguelles. The method is simple but powerful: you listen to native English audio and immediately repeat it out loud — like a shadow following the speaker with just a 1–2 second delay. Unlike passive listening or grammar drills, shadowing forces your brain and mouth muscles to simultaneously process and reproduce real speech patterns. Research shows it significantly improves pronunciation accuracy, intonation, rhythm, connected speech, listening comprehension, and speaking fluency — making it one of the most effective methods for IELTS Speaking preparation and real-world English communication.