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What are the other skills that you think we need to equip ourselves with based on the way that the world is heading?

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What are the other skills that you think we need to equip ourselves with based on the way that the world is heading?

Because, you know, like the calculator came along and we no longer needed to be able to do complicated maths.

I've completely forgotten my timetables.

I can't spell anymore.

I said to my friends, the most I can do is nine times nine.

That's like the top end of my range.

But with spelling, it's the same.

I get like half the word correct now with AI.

But again, you know.

So what are those skills?

I think it's all human skills.

Human skills.

So I think where the world is going to go, and at least this is where I'm taking a bet, is that as the end product becomes easier to produce, it's the humanity that's going to suffer.

And unless we take personal accountability, both as individuals and organizations, to teach and learn human skills, they will disappear for all the reasons we're talking about.

So how do I listen?

How do I hold space?

How do I resolve conflict peacefully?

How do I give and how do I receive feedback?

Those are two different skills.

How do I have an effective confrontation?

You pissed me off.

Do I know how to approach you as a friend, as a colleague, without creating a massive fight or losing a friendship over it?

How to take accountability.

How to express empathy.

These skills, these very, very human skills, are the things that we're already starting to see, just with the internet and social media, are suffering.

And so I think AI will only exaggerate the loss of those skills, and those skills are more important than learning how to spell.

One of the concerning things was I heard Sam Altman, who's the founder of OpenAI and ChatGPT, launch this thing called WorldCoin a couple of years ago when ChatGPT really started taking off.

And it has been closely tied to the concept of universal basic income.

The idea, the overarching idea is that in a world where AI and automation eliminate many jobs, UBI may be necessary.

WorldCoin is one way to help implement it.

That was stated by the founder of Chachibiti, Sam Altman.

Yeah.

I just, again, I'll go back to my ironic statement before.

Isn't it ironic that they want to do a universal income, a standard universal income, now that the knowledge workers are losing their jobs, but when the factory workers were losing their jobs, those same people were massively against these kinds of things.

So, I mean, yes.

What happens to purpose?

It's ironic.

And meaning if we're being, because for anybody that doesn't know what universal basic income is, The idea is the government, the state, whatever, would pay you a certain amount of money every single month.

A minimum salary.

So $2,000, $3,000, whatever it might be.

Yeah.

Because they don't think many of us are going to have, there's not going to be enough jobs to go around.

And I wonder what happens to purpose and meaning and pursuit and challenge and all these things in a world where we're just being handed money.

So we're not being given wealth.

There's a difference.

We're being given survival money, right?

And so, you know, we have to be very careful that says, you know, everybody who's on welfare is lazy.

You know, that's not true, you know.

So we have to be very careful that just because we give somebody something doesn't mean that they cease to have ambition or purpose or drive.

It's like somebody who makes a commission salary, you know, works on commission, and they make just enough to pay their rent and buy food, and that's it.

Like, that's a lack of ambition, you know.

The cases, at least the people I've heard talk about it, they make a compelling case for it, especially in a world where there is plenty of wealth.

But, you know, I don't know enough about it to make an argument for or against it, if I'm honest.

But I do find it ironic that the Sam Altman's of the world are calling for it, given the fact that there's going to be so many job losses when it's jobs of their kind.

And, like, I also think that's funny.

Like, what's going to happen when Sam Altman's product gets good enough that he can lay off most of his staff?

Just curious what happens.

He has made a point of having, I think it's 100 people or less in his company.

He doesn't have like a big team.

And I think part of that is because when I heard his TED talk a couple of days ago, he's saying, yeah, I think AGI is sooner than we think, actually.

and I think we're going to have a fast takeoff, which means it's going to arrive very quickly and accelerate very quickly.

So I think he's actually preparing not to.

Yeah, but what happens to the 90 people he lays off when he doesn't need 100, he only needs 10?

This is the question.

I'm just curious, I don't know.

And this is why anybody who has an opinion about it, the answer is we don't know.

But I think people react very differently when it's their job on the line, when it's their income on the line, when it's their pride, when it's their ego.

You know, I keep hearing from companies.

I mean, we were talking about this before we turned on the cameras.

You know, you talk to, if you want a new website, I guarantee you, I don't care which company you talk to.

They will all talk about how they're AI this, AI that.

And you ask the question, are you using AI?

Yes, we're using AI.

We're doing it differently.

We're the future, blah, blah, blah.

And then you ask them for a proposal.

It's going to look like all the other proposals from 2015.

and this is how many hours it's going to take our people to program this and code this.

And I was like, what happened to all the AI?

Why is this slow and expensive when everything's supposed to be fast and inexpensive?

Because they're taking the margin.

Of course they're taking the margin.

And they've got a lot of people doing things the old-fashioned way because the business model, you know, people work very hard to pick.

The status quo exists because there are people who benefit from the status quo.

You know, that's why there is a status quo.

And it's, like I said, everybody's into change, the future, you know, until it's them that's threatened or their income.

The billionaires that I know, the one consistent thing they whispered to me about AI is that people are going to have a lot of free time.

That's one of the things that's been really consistent.

You're so right when you say that.

When I asked you about the future of AI, you said, I don't know.

The reason why I know that's probably the correct answer generally is because when I sat with the most advanced people in AI, whether it's Mustafa,

who's head of Microsoft AI, now CEO of Microsoft AI, or people from Google, or the CEO of Google, or Reid Hoffman, who's the founder of LinkedIn, they all had different opinions.

Which made me to think actually the right answer is nobody knows.

The right answer is nobody.

That is correct.

And you always be aware of the messenger, right?

Like you won't have anybody who owns an AI company talking doomsday scenarios.

It's not in their economic interest, even if they secretly harbor that.

It's like people who used to run cigarette companies didn't smoke and they didn't let their family smoke.

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It's like I remember visiting Facebook in the earlier days and I went into the cafeteria and they had like picnic benches.

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And I was like, and they were telling me with pride how they have these communal eating areas to help people maintain relationship.

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And I was like, this is hilarious.

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You literally have a product that breaks relationships, and yet you understand enough to make people eat together at lunchtime so that they'll maintain relationship.

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I mean, the point being, if your economic interest, you know, show me how someone's paid and I'll show you how they behave.

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You know?

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One of the scariest conversations I was privy to was a friend of mine who's a billionaire in London.

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He knows the CEO of one of the biggest area companies in the world who I can't name.

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And he said, by the way, what he tells me in private is not what he's saying publicly.

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Yeah.

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He said to me, what this particular CEO thinks is going to happen with AI is pretty horrific.

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And the CEO of this big AI company is totally cool with it.

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And it's horrific what he thinks is about to happen.

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And then when I watch this guy do his online talks and give his opinion, he's so nuanced and everything will be fine.

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And he's an AI optimist.

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Then I heard this scenario at this kitchen table in East London from his friend about what he really thinks.

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And it was chilling.

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Yeah.

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Like, actually, the lack of empathy.

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Yeah.

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That makes sense to me.

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The obsession with power was shocking to me.

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The obsession with power and money and all the rest of it, yeah.

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But this is because the internet has done something really strange and challenged one of my theories head on.

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So I talk about in an infinite game, Jim Carse, his theory, in an infinite game there's no winners or losers.

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And so, like, nobody wins, you know, fast food.

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Nobody wins cars.

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Like, General Motors, Ford, Vauxhall, they can all exist at the same time, right?

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And they'll have degrees of success or not success, but they can all exist simultaneously.

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Nobody's going to win.

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The exception is in the internet.

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Like Amazon, it won.

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Like, you know, Google for search, yep, they won, right?

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And if you start going down like the big, big tech companies, there is only one.

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I mean, sure, there's competition, but not really, right?

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Walmart is making a run of it to threaten Amazon, but Amazon's still so damn big.

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All of these companies, there's only one.

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And that's not good.

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You can't have winners in a category.

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And so this is why I think the race for AI is so aggressive, for AI dominance is so aggressive, and which is why people are not being careful,

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and which is why they're not putting controls, is because the way that tech seems to work is there probably will be one dominant standard, and then that's it.

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And the question is which one?

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Because I don't think, it just seems to be the way it is, which is a very scary prospect to me.

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The fact that we can have winners is a bad thing, especially if we pride ourselves on being capitalists, then there cannot be a winner.

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And there cannot be one that is so dominant that nobody else can even compete except for scraps.

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What are your emotions when you think about AI and what's happening?

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Because I feel like the moment we're living in is a profound one and that we don't actually realize it.

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Because when these tools come out, OpenAI released yesterday, 3.0, it's the best model ever.

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The day after my life was the same.

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So we don't really notice it because we go back to work, our clients ask for the same thing, we have the same team members sat around us.

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It almost seems like the sound timer is rotated and we're on a clock.

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And it's a slow disruption of our everyday lives.

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Sam Altman the other day on his TED talk three or four days ago said, in the short term, everything will appear the same, But in the long time, he goes, life is going to be completely different.

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Yeah, I think that's right.

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I mean, and look at any technology like AI.

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It was kind of the same until it wasn't.

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And these are evolutions, not revolutions.

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Like, there's a revolutionary bit, you know?

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Like, I remember when the Internet showed up and, like, brick and Internet shopping showed up.

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And all the technologists were like, it's the end of stores.

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It's the end of bricks and mortar.

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Like, done.

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Like, we'll never go to a shop again.

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Well, that didn't happen.

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Now, shops struggle to compete against Internet, but that's a price thing.

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That's a business model thing.

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But we like going shopping because, again, all of these companies always forget, especially technologists, they all forget that the end user is a human being.

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And most of us don't fully understand everything.

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Even our iPhones, most people use a small percentage of all the capabilities of our iPhones.

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Most of us don't even know how to change the damn settings to make it do something we want.

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And neither do your kids.

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It's not an adult thing.

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It's not an old person thing.

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Like, and there's a few people who get more out of it and good for them.

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Some people use it just as a phone, fine.

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And it's a bell curve.

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So I think there will be a few people and a few companies that will get more value out of these things than the rest of us.

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But I think he's right.

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I think there'll be a revolutionary bit and then it'll settle.

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I find this whole thing fascinating.

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When you ask me how do I feel, you know, depending on what subject I'm talking about, fear and absolute amazement.

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I have both and everything in between.

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When I think about how it affects democracy and the ability to make deep fakes and how it can manipulate people and their opinions to vote one way or another, I have real fear.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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When it comes to, like, productivity and the reshaping of business, you know, technologists and people who were part of the internet revolution, they love to say, you know, 20 years ago, 80% of the jobs we have now didn't exist.

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They love to say that, right?

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But when you ask them now, they seem to think that I think it's the same, which is all those people are going to lose those jobs in white color, you know, white color jobs and knowledge workers.

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They're not going to not work.

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There's going to be new jobs.

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The IRS digitized a whole bunch of years ago, right?

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They got rid of all the accountants and they put in all the computers, right?

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Do you know how much money the IRS saved when it completely changed the way it looked?

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The answer is zero.

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Yes, they got rid of all the accountants and the need to hire all the IT people.

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So the workforce looked different, but it didn't get smaller.

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And so I think the same thing.

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We already know the massive, incredible amounts of energy that it takes for AI to work.

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centers that use up massive amounts of electricity like we've never seen in our lives.

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Like nuclear has to be a thing.

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There isn't enough coal or oil or solar or wind to power these things.

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It just doesn't exist.

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So nuclear has to be a thing.

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So go be a nuclear engineer.

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You want to get an advanced degree?

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I don't need you to be a coder.

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Coding was a thing for, go be a nuke.

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Because by the way, you've got to be just as smart to be a nuke as you have to be a...

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So you're going to start to see that.

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You're going to see energy work.

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I just think the jobs will change.

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I don't think they're going to like, one thing I do disagree with, it's not like you're going to be a bunch of people walking around bored.

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I just think the jobs will change.

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If there was a 10-year-old kid stood here now and the 10-year-old said to us, said, guys, what do you think I should focus on?

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I would say two things.

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One is going back to human skills.

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Learn how to be a good friend to your friends.

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OK, how do I learn that?

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You're going to really need that.

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How does a 10-year-old learn that, or how do you and I learn that?

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Both.

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A 10-year-old learns it, that when they go and have a play date at a friend's house, a smart parent takes away all the phones.

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I would hate that the 10-year-old has a phone in the first place, but if they do, take away all the phones and make the kids go play.

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That when they have a fight, the parents make them say sorry, You know, go over to your friend's house and knock on the door and you're going to say sorry for the thing that you did.

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We're going to teach kids how to resolve conflict.

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We're going to teach kids how to pay compliments.

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We're going to teach kids how to take accountability.

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And these are all the skills of, you know, what did you do wrong versus what did you, you know.

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Like, it's not like, you know, it's not always the school or the teacher.

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Maybe your kid is disruptive, you know.

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And so accountability is a real thing.

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And so I think if we teach those things to 10-year-olds and to adults, I think it makes for a better society.

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And the other thing is go learn a real skill.

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And I don't mean like that, you know, prompting isn't a real skill.

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That's not what I mean.

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It's what I said before, which is it's the excruciating, like what makes great relationships great is not that you get along all the time.

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The best marriages, the best relationships, they're not absent of conflict.

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It's they know how to resolve conflict peacefully.

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By the way, I believe in world peace.

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I don't believe in a world without conflict.

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I believe a world in which we can resolve our conflict peacefully without the need to go to war to resolve conflict This is why I like democracies because democracies can solve conflict without bullets

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So I the human skills one but I say a real skill me like go do something difficult build something design something imagine something write something and And and and by the way, I'm totally fine.

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Even if you plug into chat GPT and say tell me what's wrong with this Your grammar's all screwed up, you know and like I said, I I am smarter because I did it.

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I'm the reason I'm more confident than when I was younger.

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And I think that's one of the things people talk about, you get wise with age, you know, and like, and, you know, you have more confidence as you get older.

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And yes, that's all true.

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And there's multiple reasons for it.

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But I think one of the reasons is, the things that are happening to me now, I've gone through those things before.

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They were scary and kept me up at night the first time.

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And now I know how to do it.

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I'm not afraid of it anymore.

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And so I think what happens as you gain experience is you lose fear.

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And if ChatGPT or whatever AI product we use does everything for us, I think you just end up scared.

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