Shadowing Practice: Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work - Learn English Speaking with Video

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There is one place that is probably more important in your life than any other place, and it's the place that you spend the most time.

The workplace.

Today, I've brought you somebody who knows the workplace like nobody else.

She's the most followed content creator, and specifically career and workplace strategies, and I want to talk to her today, Erin McGough.

Erin, thank you so much for coming.

Jefferson, thank you so much for having me it's so great to get to talk in person after exchanging so many DMs.

Yeah, I know.

We were like encouraging each other along the way as we were each growing.

I know you have like over 6 million followers across all your platforms, which is incredible.

And it's been really fun to cheer each other on along the way.

So congratulations with everything.

Oh my gosh, congratulations to you.

Your book is fantastic.

It's on my bookshelf.

and I have to say real quick, my mom is your biggest fan ever and she loves your content so much.

So shout out to mom.

Shout out to mom.

What's mom's name?

Claire.

She's the one from Texas from the Panhandle.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

Claire, love that you're from Texas.

Thanks for following me.

That's awesome.

This is one of my favorite kind of conversations

when I can talk to other creators who are similar in space

because it could be a very lonely space when you're getting into it.

And this is a question that I ask just about every one of my guests that I have, and this is the first question,

specifically with communication, Erin, how does Erin McGough talk to herself?

Like, I want you to share with people the, how do you encourage yourself?

What's the self-talk like before we start talking about how to engage with everybody else?

Oh, so important.

The way that you communicate with yourself is the most important person you will ever communicate with is yourself.

I always say like my key to confidence is just being your own best friend, you know, talking to yourself the way that you would talk to a best friend.

So, you know, if I look in the mirror and I hear that thought of, oh, I don't look very good today.

I imagine if my friend was saying that and what I would say to her and I'd be like, you're ridiculous.

Like, it's okay.

Just go take a shower.

You know, so I like to keep it real with myself, but also give myself so much empathy and compassion because we're oftentimes our worst critics.

So be your own best friend.

I'm my own best friend.

Be your own best friend.

Do you hear that everybody?

I love that.

I think that's wonderful.

And do you, you say that like in the mirror or

when you're driving to yourself or do you imagine a duplicate of yourself when you're thinking this?

Yeah, I probably sound a little bit crazy, but yeah, I mean, after a while it just became a habit.

Like you look in the mirror or, you know, you hear those critical thoughts of yourself where, oh, I sounded bad in that meeting.

Oh, those people didn't like me.

And then you just respond to yourself and you're like, those people probably liked you.

Like there's no indicator that they didn't like you.

And then after a while that just becomes one singular voice.

I know it sounds kind of split personality-ish, but I truly, I noticed it the other day.

I'm like, wow, I'm actually really kind to myself.

I keep it real.

You know, you can't just be worshiping yourself all the time you have to keep it real with yourself

but you like you would keep it real the best friend you know you don't just worship a best friend

and constantly you know boost them up and up and up

but you need to to be real with them sometimes

so that's why i like that kind of saying be your own best friend i like that

and i think it's a healthy balance too you can you

can hype them up at the same time you have to

be like hey listen i know you think you're great it

well i need to i need to give you the truth

so i think that's your butt to the gym yeah yeah exactly you You gotta get going, get out of bed, get going.

Yeah.

Erin is the most followed career advice content creator out there.

Before we talk about some strategies, I understand you're the youngest of six kids?

I am, yeah.

Yeah, so what's like the age difference between them all?

And I'm the oldest of four.

So hearing this perspective is really cool for me.

Oh, that's so funny.

Yeah, I'm the youngest of six.

We're all about two and a half years apart.

So there's like a 12 year gap between me and the oldest sibling.

That's incredible.

That's awesome.

And growing up, you know, what did you find?

How did you think that shaped your communication and your drive growing up now?

It's a great question.

I think I'm a typical youngest child.

You have to learn how to get a word in.

And that's why I think I speak so quickly and have a sense of humor.

A lot of youngest children have a sense of humor

because we're just trying to get our word in and trying to get attention.

So I definitely learned how to like think really quick on my feet, be pithy and concise because you're trying to, you know, just get a word in.

And to be fair, my parents were really good about giving everybody equal attention and time and being very fair about things.

But yeah, you definitely learn how to be very quick on your feet.

I can definitely see that.

And I think that's why your career advice content does so well is because you have,

as you know, we have a very short window of time to give a whole lot of information to people.

And like with my followers, we get a lot of value out of what you could say were scripts.

Like how I would, I tell people instead of this word, I want you to flip it and use this word or maybe the structure of a sentence.

I want them to reverse it or replace a certain phrase.

and so I could see how as the youngest getting

that word in being really quick on your feet is very strategic

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when it comes to communicating in the workplace yeah oh definitely

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and yeah being the youngest you're always talked down to as

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well especially of six you know it's the bottom of eight people

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and so everybody's always talking down to you

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so you really learn how to kind of like manage up from a young age

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and like talk up to people and I was definitely always treated older than I was, I think.

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So people always told me I was mature from my age.

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So yeah, I would say very, very much affected me in a positive way growing up in that big, big tribe.

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But yeah, I definitely don't want to have six kids.

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I don't know how anybody can manage that this day and age, but they do.

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All right.

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So as the most followed career advice content creator, where do you draw your experience from, Erin?

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So, so many different places.

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I mean, every morning I listen to, you know, business podcasts, I read studies and research, but I also just talk to people every single day in my DMs.

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I'm conversing with recruiters, business owners, and especially job seekers.

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And I just like to be like kind of a boots on the ground person listening.

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And then when it comes to all the advice that I share, it's truly just wisdom that I've stolen from So many people in my life, you know, I listen to TED talks

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But I also just will like give advice that I heard from my dad or from you know, my aunt or something like that So it's truly just a mosaic

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And I basically just look to some of the wisest minds

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in the world I listen to what I hear repeated over

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and over again

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And then the cherry on top is kind of what I've

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experienced in my own life I don't really give advice from personal experience

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I'd more like to research a variety of sources

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and then kind of boil it down and then put my personal experience Kind of as a cherry on top.

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So I run a lot of my content like through friends who work in different industries and stuff like that.

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So Yeah, it's really um, my contents a lot more researched I think than people realize Well, that's awesome.

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Very cool.

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So mine I'm like the opposite Mine is zero percent researched researched and all,

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you know, from my world and the communication and litigation courtroom world, whereas you are more of a encyclopedia,

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like library resource of all the tools that people can use

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and go to when it comes to the workplace and career, right?

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Yeah.

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I mean, at the end of the day, like we're both giving subjective advice, you know, so you might say one thing, another career expert might say another thing.

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So yeah, like as much as I like to pretend it's objective and research-based, like at the end of the day, really is just subjective.

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Oh yeah, it all is.

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I mean, that's why I end with, so try that.

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It's not, it's not, you must do this.

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It's just, you can try it.

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If you like it, if you don't like it, you don't have to.

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I want to get into a topic, Erin, that I know that anybody in the workplace has dealt with before and continues to deal with.

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And that's specific to interviews, where I know you're very, very versed in interviews.

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This is the question I want to ask, how do you handle the what's your greatest weakness interview question?

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Yeah, man, can you believe they're still asking that question?

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I can't believe it.

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I can't.

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Yeah, well, there's a there's a couple things.

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So the first thing is to understand the question behind the question is what I say.

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So when they're asking what is your greatest weakness, they're not actually asking like about what your greatest weakness is like mine is Ben and Jerry's half-baked ice cream.

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Like they're not really curious about that.

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What they're really asking is what are your red flags?

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Are you going to reveal something to me that I might need to know?

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Also, it's kind of a signal of how professional you are

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because if you're caught off guard by this question or if you answer it quote unquote wrong, it kind of signals to them that you don't like know

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that that was an interview question that people ask and you didn't know how to answer it.

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So it's kind of part of this hidden curriculum and secret language of work. So there's that.

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So they're really asking like, how well can you professionally articulate yourself?

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So the question is about articulation.

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And then the second half of it is how to answer.

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And I always teach something called the 1090 rule.

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So you should spend only 10% of your answer naming the weakness

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and then the remaining 90% talking about how you're working on it.

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So you're really talking about self-awareness.

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I'm aware of this weakness within myself.

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Here's why it's important.

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And here's what I'm doing to address it.

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And you know what, it's really working out so far.

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And you don't want to name something like, you know, a lot of people will say, oh, well, I'm a perfectionist and you'll get an immediate eye roll.

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You don't want to name something that's a character trait.

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Like you don't want to say like, I'm a perfectionist or this is just the way that I am.

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You know, you want to name something kind of tangible that you're working on.

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And something else that's really important is that it needs to be real, but don't have it be directly hindering, like it shouldn't hinder your ability to do the job, you know?

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So, you know, delegation is safe for a lot of people, not if you're a manager, don't say delegation, but something that I'm currently working to improve are my delegation skills.

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So each week, I try to delegate one task

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and I keep a sticky note next to my laptop and it's really helping me remember that.

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So I think that brings up such a good point.

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When anybody, a supervisor, somebody interviewing you is asking that greatest weakness question, what I hear you saying is you need to see the issue behind the issue.

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They don't really care about your weakness.

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They're wondering where can, where, where are the problems with you?

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Where are those?

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Can you talk about those red flags?

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And I love how it's, you need to talk about something that's concrete and preferably something you're working on.

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So it's not like the, my, my weakness is I'm, I'm just too honest or, you know, I'm too much of a hard worker sometimes.

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Like you try and use that as a compliment.

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I think that can definitely go wrong.

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I'm a perfectionist.

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Yeah, I just do everything perfectly.

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That's all you're saying.

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But if you can put it in terms of, like you said, I have a hard time delegating sometimes, or I occasionally try to work too fast,

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and that might cause me to miss a few things.

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I think that what I also take away from this, Aaron, is when you can have that moment of honesty to say,

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it's not necessarily my weakness, but this is a thing I'm working on.

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As I think that is shows a lot of self-awareness that that's what really employers are looking for.

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Yeah.

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They're really looking, because I'll post an example and people say, well, you shouldn't tell an employer that, you know, you're, you don't have a sense of humor that you're too blunt.

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And I'm like, well, that's kind of the point is

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that you tell them how you're working on it and how you're self-aware and how you understand.

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And also you're not telling them a deal breaker, you know, don't tell them you're working on your sense of humor.

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If you're applying to be a comedy writer, you know, read the room.

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Yeah.

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I think that's a great point.

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And see, I, so I have a law firm and we have about 15 people.

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And then I also, most people don't know this, but I also have a restaurant and a coffee shop.

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No, no way.

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And so, um, yeah, I've had it for, I think six years now.

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Oh my gosh.

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How do you do this?

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I don't know, Aaron.

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Don't ask me.

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And you just do it.

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And I got kids and a wife and a family and everybody.

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And so, yeah, I've hired a lot of people.

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That being said, and I've also had to let go of many people.

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And often what I find so valuable for people

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that are wanting to get hired is when they admit kind of the rougher edges of their personality.

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Because I'd much rather than be honest with me up front and then later on finding out, oh, they're not really who they said that they were.

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So if somebody can admit up front the thing that they're working on, so if it's working on slowing down my pace and working on paying more attention to detail,

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I'm paying attention to how sometimes maybe I'm a little bit too blunt, maybe I'm too direct.

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that I think those are all things that are natural

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and normal go okay very cool well now it also informs me how to interact with you

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and how you um you know some people like to be

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need to be kind of coddled in a way like to have

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that you need to kind of hold their hand

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and some people they need the they need the tough love totally yeah um that's something else

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that I teach is just whenever you go into a job interview, you want to think of the desired, the desired result.

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So you want to think of what you want the recruiter to think after you're done answering and you just named it.

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You want the recruiter to think, oh yeah, I struggle with that too.

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That's fine.

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Like that's what you want them to think.

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So you need to craft your answer in a way where like, it's just something that they can say, oh yeah, like that's, that's not a jailbreaker.

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That's fine.

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They're working on it.

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My only tip that I have that I like for interviews in my own arsenal is using confident.

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Instead of saying, I think that I'd be good or I believe I'd be good.

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It's I'm confident that I'd be good.

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Because then the interviewer is like, oh, well, then this person sounds confident.

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And then that's what they write right underneath your name on their notes.

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It's such a great tip.

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You know, instead of saying, well, I think I'd be good at this.

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I'm confident I'd be good at this.

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Just throwing the word confident in there.

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Beautiful tip.

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Perfect tip.

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Yeah, they're going to, it's funny how just using words naturally relates that value item to them.

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Here's another question that I'm very curious about specific with your expertise in the workplace.

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How do you handle a passive aggressive person at work?

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Oh, that's really tough.

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You know, I think there's kind of two categories when it comes to passive aggressive people.

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There's one category where it's affecting you and your work and your ability to complete your duties and responsibilities.

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And then there's another category where they don't affect your work at all.

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It's just annoying.

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And so my overarching advice when dealing with anybody difficult at work is just to not take it personally.

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like I think it's hard when you're at work

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and somebody's giving you a little attitude and you know to get all festered

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and flustered and you know get mad at them

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but you know don't get mad just get curious you know

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think about how like why are they this way why are they

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so miserable and you talk a lot about passive aggressiveness I want to hear your answer as well

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but when people are passive aggressive it's because they lack an ability to communicate like an adult and professionally.

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And I think there are some instances where actually passive aggressive behavior or passive behavior is okay.

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Sometimes people might be trying to hint to you something.

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So something that I like to ask if you're not sure if somebody's being passive aggressive is, oh, did you mean that genuinely?

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Or were you trying to hint at something?

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Because you actually never know.

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Somebody might mean something really genuinely, but you're insecure about what's going on

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so you're taking it in a passive aggressive way

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or they might be 100% just being a jerk and just being passive aggressive.

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So when you ask them, hey, did you mean that genuinely or were you trying to hint at something?

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Then they either have to confront, no, I meant that genuinely or they have to say, no, I was actually hinting at something.

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I think passive aggressiveness

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may be one of the most frustrating things in the workplace

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and we have a bad habit too of reading it in somebody's email

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or their slack message or team's message or whatever

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and what you just highlighted is exactly right that these people

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and by the way

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when I say these people it's me included it's everybody we

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we all have these moments yeah we all have these moments where I'll say something passively

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and I know it's passive-aggressive and in

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that moment you know what I don't really care I'm just feeling passive-aggressive

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and it is nice to have people

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that don't take it personally like as somebody who's been passive-aggressive which we all have

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I can see and I appreciate the people who do not take it personally instead

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when you're able to ask just like you said

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that do you mean this genuinely what I like to give is should I read into

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that so it's should I read into that should I read into that comment should I read into this or

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even asking them to say something around getting them to explain more of what they meant.

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Can you tell me more about that?

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They will find a way to kind of like get over the hump and hopefully be more direct with you.

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I find that it's people that naturally their whole life, Aaron, have been pretty passive aggressive because they've seen that growing up.

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Most likely it's a family member, a mom, a dad, somebody who in their life has naturally shown them that to get what you want somehow,

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you need to be passive aggressive and hint at it

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and then resent people for not giving it to you because you feel like you deserve it in that moment.

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Passive aggressive comments certainly don't serve you and they find ways to conflict and constrict communication.

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When you need to get something done, when something's on a deadline, we've had these people say, come on, get it out.

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If you've got a problem, spit it out.

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I find that that makes it worse most of the time.

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Yeah, because they're defensive and they're insecure, and that's how they're communicating in a passive-aggressive manner.

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So if you fight fire with fire, yeah, typically it doesn't work out.

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yeah I think I think that's exactly right when anytime that somebody's been

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somebody's being passive-aggressive and you say something like hey

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if you got something to say spit it out it just

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makes them backpedal even further it's not gonna embrace them it's

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not going to get them to open up in any way

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but when you can say things like like Chris Voss who I've hat on and he's a great friend.

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He has this phrase that I love and it sounds like you have a reason for saying that.

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Sounds like you have a reason for saying that.

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Seems like there's a reason you'd say that.

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I'm a little scared right now thinking of Chris about saying that to me.

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Well, he's a scary guy.

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He's a scary guy.

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He is.

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Yeah, and he has this accent that's like almost mafia.

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Like, he's like, you sound like you've got a reason for saying that.

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Like, oh my gosh.

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That was good.

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Yeah, did you like that?

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Well, I spent five days in New York, so now I feel like I have a dual citizenship up in New York.

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But, you know, when you're getting, it's the using a question to find something out.

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I usually will ask, should I read into that?

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Should I read into that comment?

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And I think tone with that is really important because it could be a little, should I read into that?

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But you want to ask genuinely.

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Yeah, I think you're spot on.

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And even your suggestion of, did you mean that genuinely?

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Most people don't.

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They just will kind of start to explain more and more of what they meant.

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What do you find, Erin, in your work?

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You have over 6 million followers across your platform.

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What do you find most people come to you with when they say, Erin, I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z?

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Two things.

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100% of people who come to me, 99% come for two things.

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The first thing is interpersonal relationship dynamics.

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So they know what they feel and they know what they want to say.

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They just don't know how to say it hence why both of our accounts have been

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so popular is because people don't want to cause conflict

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and they don't want to say the wrong thing and they just want to be understood.

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And oftentimes, like you said, our childhood, the way we grew up, the way we saw communication styles, the way we learned how to communicate,

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it leads to an inability to be able to communicate properly as an adult.

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So learning the proper words can help us communicate better.

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So that's one thing is they just want to learn how do I tell my boss I'm quitting?

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I get a lot of people who are just really anxious.

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How do I tell my coworker that they're micromanaging me?

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How do I tell my boss that they're MIA and that's negatively affecting my work?

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Or how do I say that I'm burnt out?

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All of these things.

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And then the second thing that I see most common is validation.

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People know what they want to do.

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They think they know what they want to say and they just need a little kick in the butt.

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I just need to scoot them on.

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And I do a lot of that.

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I say, you know what?

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You sound like you know what you're doing.

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You sound like you know what you you want to do.

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And I think you should just go do it.

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So that those are pretty much the two things.

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Oh, those are awesome.

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One that caught my attention and one question I've answered

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in emails from people specifically is that how do I tell my boss that I'm leaving?

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How do I tell my boss that I'm leaving?

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So I'm going to ask I'll ask you that, Aaron.

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How do you tell your boss or supervisor that you're leaving your job?

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Yeah, how to quit your job.

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You know, something that's so interesting with quitting your job is that it's both extremely professional and kind of personal.

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We spend most of our waking hours at work.

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You know, I always say unless you're a trust fund baby or a sugar baby, or I guess a regular baby, you're going to spend most of your waking hours at work.

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And so work is very personal, despite, you know, us trying to separate them.

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It is your life.

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Life is linear.

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So I always remind people that when you're quitting a job, it's a transactional relationship They hired you to do a job You did a job

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and they paid you and now you're moving on to a new job And that's that's it

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Now if you like your boss a lot or if you like your boss just a normal amount, they were a normal boss Don't be afraid to tell them

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that like be appreciative have some gratitude But you know

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if maybe you didn't like your boss you didn't like the

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work environment I would still encourage you to leave the job with grace

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and professionalism It can feel good in the moment to you know Stick it to the man

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and tell them how you feel and get all angry and flustered But honestly, it's a waste of your energy

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and a year from now You're going to feel really regretful

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that you did that because the world is actually much smaller than people realize

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And you come across people you think that your boss just stayed at

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that job and you can curse them out and leave but

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You know unbeknownst to you they're your new client at your new company So like you just have no idea.

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You want to have good karma.

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You want to leave things in good standing.

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And that's to your benefit.

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A lot of the times when I tell people and I encourage them to leave with grace and professionalism, they're like, well, you know, they deserve blah, blah, blah.

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And I'm like, this isn't about them.

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This is actually just about you and your mental health.

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I highly encourage you if you are leaving an environment which stirs up a lot of anger in you or feelings, go get it out.

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Like write that glass door review, you know, do that exit interview, go to a kickboxing class, get, get out your feelings.

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Um, but that conversation when you're leaving should be done with grace.

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It should be quick.

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Um, you should arrange it on the calendar.

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Uh, you know, Friday afternoon is usually when most people do it.

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And remember, it's not personal.

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It's just professional.

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Your boss, you are not the first person to quit.

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Uh, you're not the last person that will, they'll have quit on them. but again

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if you had a good working relationship with your boss tell

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them you know I really appreciate you working with you the

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only thing I'll accept you know is an open door

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if I ever come crawling back to you and I hope

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that we cross paths again in the future you know you never know I think that's a great technique

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so let's I want to put this in a box for

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us for the listener right now anybody who've you were thinking right now

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that you need to leave your job you've been thinking about it, you want to go on to something else.

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Let's talk about how to do that.

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Number one, what I'm hearing from Erin is you make time for it.

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It's not a spur of the moment conversation.

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It's not something that you just want to do on a whim.

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You actually want to set aside specific time, meaning you're going to ask that supervisor or whoever, hey, I'd like to have some talk time with you.

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I'd like to visit with you for about five to 10 minutes or so on X date.

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I got that right Erin yep awesome so number two I'm hearing is

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when you need to speak with them you don't want to

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do it in terms of saying well I'm just gonna blow

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this place up I'm gonna flip tables I'm gonna you know I'm going to make sure they remember me even

430

if they're it's a horrible toxic environment what I pull from

431

you Erin is you never want to give them a reason to say this is why we let her go

432

because of this.

433

In other words, you want to leave with your head high rather than coming out of it.

434

And let's say you just ran them upside one side and down the other.

435

You want to do it from a position of always maintaining your integrity.

436

Are we good there?

437

And your dignity.

438

Yeah.

439

Yeah.

440

I think because at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's yours.

441

I love what you said.

442

It's not about them and what they've done.

443

It's about you and where you're going.

444

Exactly.

445

Three, what I'm pulling away is that whenever you speak to this person,

446

you want to make sure that instead of just focusing specifically on I am leaving this job,

447

this position, this very micro moment, you need to discuss it with them in terms of a

448

bigger macro element of this is where I'm going in my career.

449

So when you can use words like career or journey or my path or this is my trajectory,

450

then they feel less like this is one little moment, but they are now helping you along that path.

451

And then they'll be much more open to saying, hey, great job.

452

They're going to encourage you.

453

Hey, I know you're going to have a great career.

454

I have a lot more going on rather than you just focusing on, hey, I'm quitting this job.

455

Bye.

456

And then they're out.

457

I think that's going to be really helpful for a lot of people, Erin.

458

Absolutely.

459

Yeah, we think that it's just a door that we're shutting, but really it's not.

460

Your career is fluid.

461

You never know where you're going to go.

462

A lot of times people go back to their old job a few years later.

463

So yeah, just keep that door open.

464

And like you said, bring them on as an ally so

465

that they can encourage you to move on to the next part of your journey.

466

Yeah, I think that's exactly right.

467

I never feel like even when people have wronged me, if I can leave that relationship or leave that place,

468

even with just just waving at it and the rearview mirror, like that just it's it's it's gone on to the next thing.

469

See, it's going to be much better for you and your own mental health.

470

And that's exactly what Aaron's point point is here.

471

it's not about what all they've done

472

and you need to have your sense of justice

473

and you need to get revenge on them

474

and just let it all out you can let it out

475

but do it on your own terms it's not you releasing

476

it all to them is not going to do any good not going to do any good you're already leaving

477

so instead don't give them a reason for why they go

478

yeah you know what we don't really like karen she took i mean she's a jerk

479

because you just justified that and how exactly ended that with them.

480

Instead, it's about you and how you're going to leave that.

481

I think that's a wonderful piece of advice for anybody wanting to get out of where they're going

482

and where they want to be in the workplace.

483

Erin, thank you very much for that.

484

Yeah, of course.

485

When you feel like people are specifically supervisors,

486

like you're asking for a raise or you're asking for something that you want from a supervisor?

487

What's the best way to handle that?

488

Oh, I love this question.

489

Especially since a lot of my advice is for people being managed.

490

And I'd love to give more advice for managers.

491

But typically when I post those videos, you know, there's less managers than people being managed.

492

So anyway, the comments always get interesting.

493

But anytime you're going to a supervisor or manager, somebody senior to you, I want you to imagine that you're them.

494

Like, we see these people as oh well they're above us they

495

have it all figured out like they have more control than me this is a weird power dynamic

496

but at the end of the day they probably have a

497

boss too who has a boss too who has a boss too

498

and they have dirty laundry at home they have to call

499

their grandma like they're stressed out about paying off their student

500

loans like they're they're looking for a new job they're probably

501

also looking for a raise like they're just a person at the end of the day

502

so anytime that somebody comes to me

503

and they're like hey i want to go to my manager and talk to them about this, I always tell them, imagine that you were that manager and,

504

you know, somebody that you manage was coming to you and asking you that question.

505

How would you want them to ask you that question when you have a million other things going on?

506

And yes, it's their job to supervise or manage you.

507

So, you know, don't get it twisted.

508

That's part of their job, but they have a lot going on, you know?

509

And so how can you present this in a way where it's not a battle?

510

It's not, you know, give me this vacation or I quit, but rather how can we work together, you know, to coordinate schedules.

511

Because at the end of the day, like managers, it is a stressful job, especially middle managers, when you have to report to your boss above you and then cater to people underneath you.

512

It's a very thankless job.

513

So I always encourage people just try to step in their shoes, think about everything they have going on and how you can make this an easy yes for them.

514

Get to yes.

515

You know, that desired outcome is them saying, yeah, you can take that extra vacation day.

516

That's no problem.

517

How can you get them to say that?

518

So think about it backwards.

519

That's so good.

520

I love that.

521

And you know, from my world, I preach that the person you see isn't the person you're talking to.

522

And that goes for your managers.

523

Most managers are just employees that have just been advanced.

524

I mean, and that's all really anybody is, unless they're the founder of the company in some way.

525

They're you.

526

And so you go, okay, how do I handle that?

527

It's so funny how all of a sudden when you become a manager, people's brains kind of get rewired, where it's now an us against them.

528

Like I remember coming up in my law firm, the first one I was at, big defense firm.

529

You're an associate as you start.

530

and then you become a partner.

531

And when you're an associate, you're like, oh, the partners never do this, the partners never do that.

532

And you just have like this collective, the partners don't understand me.

533

And then all of a sudden, when you become a partner, you're like, oh, these associates, can they just stop whining?

534

Like you just, like it happens like overnight.

535

You're all of a sudden like, oh, these associates, geez Louise.

536

And you start, it does this mindset shift that's so easy to do and the same thing happens wherever you're at.

537

I love this idea of remembering they're just people.

538

And a tip that I like to give people

539

that are dealing with ones that are above them is this idea of when you ask them questions, if you want a raise or whatever it is,

540

you become almost the student to them.

541

So if you can make them feel like a teacher by asking questions of, so how how did you get to your position

542

or what's the best way you think for me to

543

if i'm interested in a raise what would what would you do

544

if you were in my shoes so when you can try

545

and like put them in a position

546

and make them feel good of you know i see where you're you're at

547

and i'd love to be where you're at you know sooner

548

than later how did you get to where you are

549

and you kind of get them to tell their story of what they did

550

and how they did it and

551

when they did it they'll be much more receptive to having

552

you'll get more nuggets out of them instead of like just asking them hey

553

so I like a raise can you give me a raise yeah

554

when am I gonna give a raise

555

because all they're hearing is oh you're just you just want

556

stuff you just want stuff oh you're just oh you're threatening me in a sense of oh

557

if you don't get a raise you're gone

558

so I can see talk about the downside real quick of

559

when somebody comes out of the gate almost too strong

560

and they're saying if they just come right in

561

and say Aaron I want to raise like what does it go through the employers mind yeah

562

so you know what you're doing

563

when you come out of the gate strong like you said is you're putting a lot of work

564

and like load on them because your manager

565

if you work in a corporate structure is probably not the one that actually has to green light that raise, they have to go to their boss who has to go to finance, who has to go to HR.

566

And it's like a lot of people who have to say yes.

567

So that's why it's important.

568

Yeah, that's why it's important to not.

569

And it's always, you know, I always talk about how there's a difference

570

when you're negotiating with the person who has the power to say yes and the person you're talking to.

571

And they're oftentimes two different people.

572

So if you're talking to your manager, like you said, enroll them in the conversation and say, hey, look, I did my market research and,

573

you know, other social media coordinators out there are getting paid $10,000 more than me to do like less than me.

574

So I'm just, you know, being frank with you here.

575

I really like working here, but we need to do something to adjust my compensation because I'd really like to stay here, but this is not sustainable for me.

576

And so you enroll them because now they're thinking their manager brain clicks on and they're like, must retain good employee.

577

And so they can take that to their boss and they can say, look, Aaron's thinking about quitting if we don't give her a 10K bump.

578

And so I want to retain her because she's really productive and she's a great value add to the company.

579

And then they can go to finance and advocate for you.

580

So you have to give them a case to advocate on your behalf to somebody else.

581

And you can't just say, hey, give me a raise because they're thinking, I can't control that.

582

I got to go talk to Dave and he's got to talk to Karen and they got to talk to these people, you know, so just working with them and making it a collaboration.

583

Yeah, I think that's spot on.

584

So often they're not the one that can do it, but you want them on your side.

585

You want to turn them into an advocate for you.

586

One little tweak that I, because I'm weird, you know, I'm weird about communication here and she knows this.

587

Yeah.

588

So when you say something like, you know, I love working here, but I'm not going to be able to continue on at the salary that I'm at.

589

What my brain automatically does is, so how I would tweak that is instead of the but would change it to and I also. And yeah.

590

Yeah.

591

Yeah, which anybody can use for any of these conversations.

592

And I think, and Aaron already knows this because you're brilliant with these tips.

593

So if it's, I love working here and I also know that the rate I'm at is not sustainable.

594

Like that right there is super confident.

595

It's softer, but it's also super confident.

596

I feel like when you're able to say, and I also know.

597

Yeah.

598

I have that knowledge within myself of knowing how this ain't gonna be it.

599

And I can also know as someone who is an employer and has been on every side of it, whenever you feel like somebody's giving you an ultimatum,

600

like you give a raise or they're leaving, nobody likes that decision.

601

Yeah, it's a bad taste in your mouth for sure.

602

Yeah.

603

Have you seen that backfire with anybody?

604

Yeah, so I'm like you where I have just played both sides of the coin so much being a business owner.

605

I worked as a director, so I had to hire people all the time, let go of people.

606

And then as a freelancer, I've had to get hired up and hired by over 25 companies.

607

And so I've truly just been on both sides of this equation so many times.

608

And yeah, ultimatums just typically don't work in general.

609

I think anybody listening to this might say, oh, there's an exception for my cousin who works in tech.

610

It's like, yeah, there's exceptions for everything me and Jefferson say.

611

Everything that comes out of her mouth, There's an exception for it.

612

You got to give disclaimers for every little thing.

613

But yeah, I think just typically like strong arming people is like a last resort.

614

And it should not be.

615

You should always go into things more softly

616

because you want to help people bring down their defenses whenever you're having a communication.

617

That's like literally what Jefferson's entire book is about.

618

It's how to get people to deescalate and to get softer.

619

And then you can have a real conversation.

620

The way when people try and push, which I support, and you do too, of stating your needs of what you want.

621

I want a raise.

622

That's wonderful.

623

I love that you're able to voice that.

624

When you push it on somebody of, I need a raise or I'm gone, they will do it.

625

They'll do either one of two things.

626

You're going to refuse it because of the way you asked right there because then they're going to start to automatically, they're going to put you as a we're us

627

and you're now over there you're not part of us anymore you don't want to be part of the team

628

or two they're going to do it and agree to it

629

and acquiesce because you put them in a position that's very difficult

630

and they're going to resent that they said yes

631

because it's funny how and I know you know I've spoken about this how

632

when you're the employee the employer never pays enough money you can never get enough

633

which is not necessarily true but you get the sentiment yeah versus on the other side

634

when they're you're the employer you feel like you're already paying too much

635

because now you're thinking of I have to afford the business

636

it's not just the employee I have all the taxes I have to pay for all the cost of goods sold

637

yeah oh my goodness yeah if you offer benefits

638

if you I mean if not to mention you're going to have all the different sales tax, you have your employer tax, like everything that goes into it.

639

And you're thinking, I have to think of this whole entire world.

640

And this person only is just wanting another dollar, but they don't understand.

641

They think that they're only asking for a dollar raise.

642

They don't understand the implications on blah, blah, blah.

643

They're thinking about a million things.

644

Yeah.

645

And there's nothing wrong with either side.

646

Nothing at all.

647

I absolutely, and I know you believe the same.

648

Everybody should be paid

649

a wage that is reasonable to them and an honest wage

650

that reflects the work that they do and the value they bring.

651

That's what good businesses do and that's what good leaders do.

652

But it's funny how we have such a way of flip-flopping depending on what side of the table we're sitting on, especially communicating that.

653

Yeah, and it's funny because I tell people like the second you become a manager, the second you own your own business, it will click.

654

You will understand why you asking for your raise

655

that way didn't work because now you're on the other side of the table

656

and you've got a million things going on

657

and you understand it's not just

658

that easy for you to okay I'll go in you know

659

and change your salary right now it's it's a whole sometimes it's a whole operation

660

and sometimes it's not you know sometimes I see a lot

661

of companies giving people a really hard time who are very much being underpaid

662

so I really really advocate for people to advocate for themselves I think that's wonderful

663

and that's what you do I mean that's that's why you have the following

664

that you have and that's why we're friends for anybody listening they she

665

and I kind of came up together at the same time you

666

and your workplace world by me and my communication world

667

and it's just been awesome Aaron to see what you do

668

and the people that you help so

669

if you haven't I want you to go follow Aaron McGough she's has incredible content for workplace

670

and career advice and it's just a pleasure to have you on Aaron thank you

671

so much for spending some time with me.

672

It has been amazing to see your growth and it's so well-deserved.

673

You deserve everything that you're getting, the book deal, the TV, podcast.

674

I'm just so happy for you because your advice is so amazing and I see it impact people who I know.

675

So you're doing great.

676

And I'm so glad that you picked up your phone in your car and made that first video.

677

Thanks, Erin.

678

I appreciate it.

679

Thanks for coming.

680

Thank you so much for having me.

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Vocabulary and speaking notes for this lesson

This video has 680 sentences and 8289 words to shadow. The speech runs for 42:23. The speaker talks fast, about 196 words per minute, so expect linked and reduced sounds. 86% of the words are among the 3,000 most common in English; the rest is worth studying before you start.

Key vocabulary in this video

15 words from the video worth learning, with pronunciation and meaning:

Word	Pronunciation	Meaning
passive adjective	/ˈpæs.ɪv/	Being subjected to an action without producing a reaction.
aggressive adjective	/əˈɡɹɛs.ɪv/	Characterized by aggression; highly combative; prone to behave in a way that involves attacking (especially if unjustly) or arguing.
workplace noun	/ˈwɝkˌpleɪs/	The place where someone works.
communicate verb	/kəˈmjuːnɪkeɪt/	To impart or transmit (information or knowledge) to someone; to make known, to tell.
weakness noun	/ˈwik.nɪs/	The condition of being weak.
encourage verb	/ɪnˈkʌɹ.ɪd͡ʒ/	To mentally support; to motivate, give courage, hope or spirit.
employer noun	/ɪmˈplɔɪə/	A person, firm or other entity which pays for or hires the services of another person.
genuinely adverb	/ˈd͡ʒɛn.ju.ɪn.li/	In a genuine manner; truthfully, truly.
hire verb	/ˈhaɪɹ/	To obtain the services of in return for fixed payment.
youngest adjective	/ˈjʌŋ.ɡɪst/	Most recently begun or formed.
advocate noun	/ˈæd.və.kət/	Someone whose job is to speak for someone's case in a court of law; a counsel.
supervisor noun	/ˈsupɚˌvaɪzɚ/	A person with the official task of overseeing the work of a person or group, or of other operations and activities.
mirror noun	/ˈmiɹɚ/	A smooth surface, usually made of glass with reflective material painted on the underside, that reflects light so as to give an image of what is in front of it.
associate noun	/əˈsoʊʃi.ət/	A person united with another or others in an act, enterprise, or business; a partner or employee.
hint noun	/hɪnt/	A clue.

Phrasal verbs you will hear

Word	Pronunciation	Meaning
grow up verb		To mature and become an adult.
get out of verb		To leave, exit or escape from; to become free of.
talk down to verb		To speak to another person in a demeaning or patronizing way.
work out verb	/ˌwɝk ˈaʊt/	To calculate.
bring down verb		To make (a ruler or government) lose their position of power.
bring up verb		To mention.
come across verb		To change sides; to cross over to work for the opposition.
come up verb		To emerge or become known, especially unexpectedly.

Pronunciation to watch

The speaker uses 308 contractions and reduced forms, such as you're, I'm, they're. Say them the short way, as you hear them.

The “th” sounds: underneath /ˌʌndɚˈniθ/, athletic /æθˈlɛt.ɪk/, threaten /ˈθɹɛt.n̩/
The “sh” and “zh” sounds: associate /əˈsoʊʃi.ət/, delegation /dɛlɪˈɡeɪʃən/, gosh /ɡɑːʃ/, congratulations /kənˌɡɹæt͡ʃəˈleɪʃ(ə)nz/, vacation /veɪˈkeɪ.ʃən/
Long words — get the stress right: communicate /kəˈmjuːnɪkeɪt/, genuinely /ˈd͡ʒɛn.ju.ɪn.li/, supervisor /ˈsupɚˌvaɪzɚ/, associate /əˈsoʊʃi.ət/, naturally /ˈnæt͡ʃ.(ə.)ɹə.li/

How to practise with this video

Listen to the whole video once without speaking and note the words you do not know.
Start at 0.75× speed, shadow it sentence by sentence, then go back to normal speed once it feels easy.
Record yourself and compare with the original, paying attention to words like passive, aggressive, workplace.

Grammar in this video

The structures the speaker uses most, with the exact words from the video:

Structure	In the video
Present perfect have/has + past participle — a past action that still matters now	I've brought · it's been · I've stolen
Relative clauses who / which + clause — extra information about a person or thing	somebody who knows · platforms, which is · friends who work
Passive voice be + past participle — the focus is on what happens, not who does it	was definitely always treated · being said · is sponsored

What is the Shadowing Technique?

Shadowing is a science-backed language learning technique originally developed for professional interpreter training and popularized by polyglot Dr. Alexander Arguelles. The method is simple but powerful: you listen to native English audio and immediately repeat it out loud — like a shadow following the speaker with just a 1–2 second delay. Unlike passive listening or grammar drills, shadowing forces your brain and mouth muscles to simultaneously process and reproduce real speech patterns. Research shows it significantly improves pronunciation accuracy, intonation, rhythm, connected speech, listening comprehension, and speaking fluency — making it one of the most effective methods for IELTS Speaking preparation and real-world English communication.

Shadowing technique: read the full step-by-step guide →

Shadowing Practice: Erin McGoff: How to be Instantly More Confident at Work - Learn English Speaking with Video

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Vocabulary and speaking notes for this lesson

Key vocabulary in this video

Phrasal verbs you will hear

Pronunciation to watch

How to practise with this video

Grammar in this video

What is the Shadowing Technique?