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Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of the Engineering Career Coach podcast.

Today I have with me

Pam Hurley, PhD.

She's the founder and president of Hurley Write, Inc., a certified women -owned small business.

In this episode, we talk about how engineers can become more effective writers.

We discuss some of the challenges that engineers face when writing, share some tips and strategies for improving your writing skills,

and the importance of writing in a clear, concise, and engaging style.

I'm your host, Jeff Perry.

I'm a leadership and career expert, and I'm the author of the upcoming book, The Intentional Engineer.

You can find more information on me at jeff -perry .com.

And this is the Engineering Career Coach podcast brought to you by EMI,

the first podcast dedicated to helping engineers and technical professionals with both their personal and professional development.

Now it's time to jump to the main segment of our episode.

Today, I have the pleasure to have with me

Pam Hurley, PhD.

She's the founder of Hurley Wright Incorporated.

Pam, so grateful to have you on the show.

Well, thank you for inviting me.

So I'm so excited about this.

Now, Pam, you come from a different background than probably most of our guests and certainly most of our listeners.

I'm curious if you can share just a brief overview of where you come from.

What does the day -to -day look like for you?

Sure.

Yeah, I I come from a background in academia.

So one of the things that

that taught me in academia was what a poor job

we do in universities of training people to write in the real world.

And so after I finished my doctorate, I decided to start a business because I understood

that what I was teaching in academia was practical and could be applied for most professionals in the workplace.

Okay, very cool.

So I'm excited to dive in

and certainly provide some ideas for how we can help some of our listeners improve some of their writing skills.

So when you work with a lot of engineers on this and helping them improve their writing and their communication, right?

So what do you see as some of those challenges that engineers face when they're trying to write in written communication?

Well, one of the things we ask,

or at least I ask in my first thing I ask in my classes is how many of you like writing?

And believe it or not, most engineers say they don't like to write.

Weird.

Yeah, I know.

Very surprising.

And so one of the things I mean, it just makes sense.

If it's not something you you like to do, then you typically are going to procrastinate.

When you procrastinate, your skill set diminishes, right?

Tiger Woods doesn't go out and play golf once a year.

He practices every day.

And so one of the things we try to help them understand is that engineers are fantastic problem solvers.

I mean, that's what they do.

That's what they thrive on.

That's what they're wonderful at.

And so what we try to teach them is how do you take those great problem -solving skills

and apply them to writing?

And it's really not as difficult as it might appear.

Okay, interesting.

I mean, I'm just thinking about from my own experience, I know that it was early on in school that I had,

like a lot of engineers, some natural strengths in the math and science and all that stuff.

And so people were like, oh, yeah, engineering would be good for you.

But what I really liked about those things when I was in school and gravitated toward, there was always like a right answer, right?

Like I knew if I was right or wrong on that stuff, when it came to anything creative,

writing or art or things like this, it was subjective, right?

I was getting graded on someone's opinion of what I created instead of like, you know, what exactly was the correct way.

And so that immediately for me was part of my early mindset of like, writing is bad, it's hard, it's subjective.

I don't like that. And

so I actually act like maybe a lot of the people

you work with for a long time actively avoided times when I would do that.

And so that mindset plays a big role.

But I've certainly learned later and been practicing a lot more the last few years to do a lot more writing.

But trying to write in a way that's clear, concise, and engaging for an audience is something that's different.

It's certainly not taught in engineering school.

If we take any writing class, it's a technical writing class.

We're just trying to communicate like a technical idea.

But even that is hard, and it's just one class, and that's all that's required.

So how do you help engineers really improve their style of writing to help engage their audience in effective ways?

Well, that's exactly right.

And you nailed it to their audience.

And one of the things that academia does a poor job of is teaching writing as though it is subjective.

And so what happens is for a lot of people, they carry that into the workplace.

Reviewers do as well.

We have a whole class devoted to what reviewers are doing.

And so it's, you know, review, oh, I don't like that word.

Or, you know, they review for pet peeves and things like that.

Writing is not subjective.

There are ways, and these are some of the things that we teach, for instance,

how do you structure a sentence to emphasize the right thing for your particular readers to drive them to a conclusion?

And writing is simply problem solving.

What is the communication problem you're trying to solve?

How do I communicate a particular message to a certain audience for a desired outcome?

And so a lot of engineers and other writers don't think much about the outcome, where they're trying to get.

So they tend to be writing or they tend to write from a, it's a top down.

I start at the beginning and I end at the end.

Instead of thinking about reverse engineering the document, where do I want to wind up?

and then working backwards and for a lot of people

if they do that that works very very well

but there are a lot of pieces in that in the writing puzzle

and they're not difficult to solve it's just

that academia doesn't do a very very good job of teaching it

and it and we do tend to view it as very subjective

because you know people make comments like I have no idea what

that means why didn't they like that you know blah blah blah

and you know one of the things we hear a lot of a lot of is well I wrote it

100

and then the reviewer wanted it this way so I changed it

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and then I sent it back to the reviewer

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and they changed it back to the way I had it originally

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so there's a tremendous amount of confusion and

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so we do think about it as being subjective

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when it it really is not there's studies

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that have been done about readability

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and that's what we teach in our classes it's all about readability it's a science okay so you're actually helping

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them almost speaking their language creating the science and the structure of writing

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and and the system perhaps as engineers really like to work in systems

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and processes to absolutely to really optimize what they're doing

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now in the end what writing is one form of communication

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where there's a lot of different instances where engineers need to communicate ideas whether that's internally externally whatever

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that is in technical and non -technical situations so what are those ways

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that you find that engineers can then use writing as a tool to do the great work

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that they need to do instead of seeing as something

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that that's off to the side like how do they see

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their writing as a as an enabler of doing their great engineering work yeah that's a great question

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so one of the things that a lot of engineers, other professionals seem to not understand is that the document is the deliverable.

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And what I mean by that is, if you're doing, you can do great work, you can go to the field,

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you can be doing great work in the lab, you can do whatever, whatever, whatever.

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But if the document doesn't convey that great work, then it's all for naught.

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So we want to also think about documents as conveying an image, right?

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Aristotle called this ethos, and I don't want to get into all the theory, but ethos called this ethos,

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which is the image that the writer projects.

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And all of us, I think, have picked up documents and read them and thought, woo, not the sharpest tool in the shed.

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And so that's what we're talking about.

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So a document can be just a way to show a reader

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that you are competent and intelligent and are doing a good job.

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So documents are more than just words on a page.

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People really do, you know, read them and make judgments about you and about the organization and about the work you do,

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whether you like it or not, we all do it.

132

Okay, interesting.

133

So like you're putting your name on that thing, you better make sure that's a high quality.

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And when you're doing that deliverable, it better be to a certain standard.

135

You're trying to raise that standard for people.

136

So, you know, there's the writing, there's the words that go into a document,

137

but there's other supporting things that go into documents or resources that engineers are creating, you know, visuals, right?

138

So charts, diagrams, pictures, how can visuals enhance the writing and the communication that they're trying to get across?

139

Yeah.

140

So, I mean, one of the things we know based on readability studies is

141

that a lot of people look at visuals before they even look at text.

142

So visuals should augment text.

143

And what I mean by that is that they should add to not take the place of text.

144

A lot of people want them to take the place of text.

145

The other thing about visuals is they have to be clear and they have to pass what we call the grunt test.

146

And the grunt test is simply that in five seconds or less, you need to know exactly what that visual is showing you.

147

We were working with a team recently on their PowerPoints and And holy moly, the visuals,

148

the PowerPoints were so packed with information that it was very difficult to understand the idea that they were trying to convey.

149

And then when you talk to them about like, oh, I'm trying to be this and that and this and that and this and that.

150

Well, you know, your reader or your audience isn't going to sit down with you and go, oh, well, what did you mean by this? right?

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So we really have to think about, you know, visuals can be incredibly effective, but they also have to be done very well to be effective.

152

Yeah.

153

Sometimes I've heard you're talking about those PowerPoints that just have way too much.

154

Sometimes I've heard those called eye charts, like our eyes are just overwhelmed.

155

They don't know where to go.

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They don't know where to look.

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Like, what does this actually mean?

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I shouldn't have to feel like I'm working too hard to understand this.

159

Exactly.

160

And the same is true with written documents.

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If you have to read it more than once, bad.

162

Yeah.

163

Well, and to that point, the onus on the engineers who are doing the writing,

164

they probably do need to read it and write it more than once.

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And so this is maybe something that I know I sometimes have resistance with and maybe other engineers do as well.

166

Okay.

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You finally sat down, did the writing, you got the report to a complete state, but you still need to refine,

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edit, proofread, make sure it's ready for delivery.

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Sometimes I'm like, ah, like I'm done.

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Like it's fine.

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Like the first time I went through it, but, but okay.

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So please explain to us why editing and proofreading is so important to, to really make our documents great.

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Well, yeah, I mean, proofreading, I mean, honestly, you can use Grammarly or some other AI for that, but the editing pieces is really important.

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And one of the things we advocate in our classes is getting people to think about a checklist when they're editing and,

175

you know, what are the top things or, you know, five things or whatever it is that they need to edit for.

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So we think about editing more.

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We talk about more as reviewing and it's semantics.

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But when you think about review, you're looking at the document holistically.

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And what I mean by that is a A holistic review of the document means you're looking at,

180

is this written for my reader?

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Does it flow?

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Are the concepts clear?

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Those kinds of things, when you think about a holistic review, that's really what you need to be looking at,

184

not the minutiae, which is the proofreading part.

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And I'm not saying that proofreading is not important.

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It is.

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But proofreading, I mean, I've had writers who will be like, wow, they get stuck on a particular word and they cannot move on.

188

Put an X there and move on.

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You can go back to all that stuff.

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But one of the things when we think about writing is your brain is working on the writing problem.

191

And when you're constantly stopping and starting, we call it wordsmithing, then you're stopping that process.

192

Engineers are brilliant.

193

So they should be able to write and then do what we call incubation, put the document aside, come back later.

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But a lot of them don't because they don't like rice.

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They try to do it all in one fell swoop and have it done.

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But if you let it incubate, what's happening is, is your brain is working on it, even though you're not physically working on it.

197

Okay.

198

I like that.

199

So, I mean, looking at that holistic view, like we were talking about early, like who's the audience, who are we writing for?

200

Is what we've created really going to serve its intended purpose

201

and write to and help influence or help people understand what we're trying to communicate in the first place, right?

202

We need to be looking at that big picture instead of just like, oh, I outlined all the sections.

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I wrote something in all of them and like, cool, it's all done.

204

Like really looking, does this, what we've created serve its intended purpose, which is critical.

205

Because sometimes you get too deep into the details of the whole or certain parts of it.

206

You don't look at the big picture.

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So that's great.

208

Um, what do you find are other things

209

that are really important for engineers to keep in mind when they're writing these technical reports or proposals or other professional documents?

210

Take the time to plan.

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They don't want to plan.

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They just want to write because they don't like it.

213

But if you take the time to plan, it should really be the 80 -20 rule.

214

You should be spending 80 % of your time planning and only 20 % of your time writing.

215

and if a lot of people if more people did

216

that they would not have the problems they do with writing

217

but when you're trying to rush you're just getting it out there

218

and you're or even thinking about your audience

219

so what a lot of folks would do oh

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i'm writing for my boss joe i'm writing for you know they don't do

221

that deep dive

222

so one of the things

223

we do in our classes is ask people to do a

224

deep dive into their readers think about their reader attributes think about strategies

225

because if you're writing for instance let's just say a skeptical reader versus somebody who's on board.

226

Those are two totally different strategies.

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You should not be writing.

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I don't care if it's the same document.

229

You should not be writing those two documents in the same way because the attitudes of the readers are very, very different.

230

Right.

231

And I want to go back to the point we were just talking about before.

232

Before we started recording, we were talking about like, hey, sometimes engineers have a tendency to just provide way too much.

233

So the idea of editing to me certainly is changing restructuring,

234

but also editing to me is removal and finding those ways to remove the things that, yeah, it may be important as part of the process,

235

but only including the things that are most relevant to what needs to be communicated for this.

236

So can you talk to, maybe engineers have so much knowledge and so much detail that they can share.

237

How do they go through that sifting process to really edit

238

and decide this is what actually needs to be communicated instead of every single detail that I could include?

239

No, it's a good question.

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And they do love to include everything, whether it's relevant or or not because it's interesting to them

241

and I get that

242

so one of the things

243

we talk in our classes about is the outcome statement what are you trying to achieve

244

if I'm just trying to explain to you the 10 best ways to use this widget then

245

that that gives me some parameters

246

that gives me a guide a roadmap to understand the amount and kind of information that I should include.

247

But when you're just writing, and again, you're using that, you know, you write from the top down,

248

then that lends itself to including far too much information, which we call overriding.

249

But if you have a strategy in place, and then you understand where you're trying to go, that is going to help you.

250

Does this add value?

251

Does this help me take my reader to the desired conclusion?

252

If it doesn't, it goes.

253

Okay, that's interesting.

254

So still kind of, again, we're using that upfront planning that we've done, understanding the audience, I think you said objective statement,

255

using that as a filter as we continue throughout the process

256

when I'm writing and certainly at the end when we're doing more editing again,

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uses that filter to make sure does this fit the purpose in the end okay that's great now

258

if i'm an engineer

259

and i'm like okay pam you've convinced me i i need to like take writing seriously

260

and and get better about this like what are some of the resources

261

that engineers can use to improve their writing skills

262

we're talking about like okay just need to put in some reps

263

and practice and do it more

264

but besides just writing more what are some resources really help refine

265

and improve their their abilities well our classes obviously are the best resource out there, but, but, but honestly, according to research,

266

there's two, two things, very simple things that, that, that engineers should be doing.

267

Number one is writing every single day for 15 minutes.

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Very simple.

269

The second thing that engineers should be doing is reading every day for 15 minutes.

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And I'm not talking about reading engineering documents.

271

I'm talking about reading novels and newspaper articles and things like that, because you pick up nuances,

272

you pick up language, you pick up sentence structure and things like that.

273

So those are two really, honestly, two main, you can read all the technical writing textbooks in the world if you want to,

274

but they're not going to help you as much as that practice of writing and reading for 15 minutes a day, honestly.

275

Now I'm curious, Pam, on the research, I don't know if you're familiar with this,

276

but I'm curious because a lot of the books that I end up reading, probably the majority of them,

277

I listen to audiobooks rather than sit down and read a book.

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It's sometimes a little bit easier for me to get through a book that way.

279

Does that have any influence one way or another, or is one more beneficial or another as far as the reading to improve the writing

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from what you know in the research?

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I don't know much.

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I haven't seen much research about that.

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I would imagine that it's the same um

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because what you're just trying all

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you're trying to do is get new um new ways what this is not said well

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but all you're trying to do is to really think differently about i'm not saying

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this very well i haven't done any research on

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that to be quite honest with you i would imagine

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it's real i would imagine it's roughly the same to me it would be the same as whether you uh

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when you when you sit down to write are you writing longhand are you dictating?

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Are you using a keyboard?

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And I think a lot of it would just depend on the, you know, the preference of the individual.

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Yeah, that's great.

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So I'm just curious if you knew.

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Yeah, I don't know, but it's a really good question.

296

Yeah, that's great.

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And something I might go dig into.

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Absolutely.

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Well, Pam, this has been really helpful.

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And so I'm excited as we go to our next segment, the Take Action Today segment, we'll come back in just a moment.

301

And we'll get one final piece of actionable advice from Pam to help you improve your writing.

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We'll be right back.

303

now it's time for our take action today segment of the show now pam

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we've had a great discussion around a lot of the different aspects of how engineers can improve their writing skills

305

and why that's important now

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if i'm an engineer who has something i need to to write

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or create today

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or this week what's the there's a lot of things i could do to work on

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and i don't have time to take a class or anything,

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but what's the one thing that I can really focus on to improve this next thing that I'm writing right away?

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Yeah, planning is the most important thing that any writer can do.

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And it's the thing that most writers fail to do.

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Know who you're writing for.

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Find out as much as you possibly can about them, whether it is their role in the organization, even if they're busy.

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So if they're busy, there are strategies that you can then employ, right?

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Right.

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So do that.

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Number two, write that outcome statement.

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Where do you want them to go?

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Think of yourself as the Sherpa.

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You're the Sherpa taking them on the on the journey.

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Where do you want them to go?

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Right.

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And then the third thing is, is to think about writing as a process.

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It is not, as we've been taught in academia, outline first draft, second draft.

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We're good to go.

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It can be outline first draft back to outline.

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It's messy.

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That's OK.

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You need to embrace that and not think about it as a linear process,

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which I know can be difficult for people who love processes and systems.

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And then the final thing about that is writing is a process.

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Figure out what your process looks like, right, which may take time.

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But once you do that, your writing is going to be so much, it's going to be such a much easier task for you.

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Okay, great.

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Some fabulous advice there.

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And I hope people take that to heart as they're planning their next thing that they have to write.

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So, Pam, I'm sure there are going to be some people who are interested to connect with you,

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find you, learn more about some of the classes that you teach if they want to dive deeper into that.

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Where would you point people to find out more information about that?

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So you can contact me directly, Pam, at HurleyWright .com.

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You can give us a call, 877 -249 -7483.

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Go to our website, HurleyWright .com.

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We have some great resources, blogs, white papers, you know, that kind of thing.

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We have some videos, things like that.

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And if you just want to chat, just, you know, email me or look me up on LinkedIn there as well, like everybody else's, I guess.

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Okay, perfect.

348

So such a great episode here.

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And I really hope people see and recognize the importance of writing

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and take it seriously so that they can deliver some of the great work

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that they have to deliver beyond just like doing the technical work, but we need to be able to communicate that effectively.

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So thanks so much for all you do to help support that and wish you nothing but continued success.

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Thanks so much for being here.

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Well, thank you.

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I appreciate you having me on.

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It was a lot of fun.

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I hope you enjoyed the episode today.

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We would love to hear your feedback, comments and questions.

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You can go to engineeringmanagementinstitute .org where you'll find a summary of the key points discussed in the episode,

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as well as links to any of the resources or websites that we mentioned in the episode.

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And don't forget to check out any upcoming live webinars for this month at the website as well.

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Additionally, for any engineers who feel like they need extra help taking the next career step or finding clarity in their careers,

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I've created some free training resources with an opportunity to join a more intensive program called the Engineering Career Accelerator.

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You can find more information at engineeringcareeraccelerator .com

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or you can go grab my career clarity checklist found at www .engineeringcareeraccelerator .com slash career -clarity.

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Until next time, I wish you the best in all of your engineering endeavors.

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Этот урок разговорной практики построен на видео «Tips for Effective Technical Writing in Engineering». Чаще всего повторяются слова: writing, engineer, document. В этом видео 366 предложений и 4402 слов для шедоуинга. Речь длится 23:59. Говорящий говорит быстро, около 184 слов в минуту, поэтому звуки часто сливаются и сокращаются. 87% слов входят в 3000 самых частых слов английского языка, поэтому лексика простая.

Ключевая лексика этого видео

15 слов из видео, которые стоит выучить, с произношением и значением:

Слово	Произношение	Значение
edit глагол	/ˈɛdɪt/	редакти́ровать, изменя́ть
reader существительное	/ˈɹi.dɚ/	чита́тель, чита́тельница
communicate глагол	/kəˈmjuːnɪkeɪt/	сообща́ть, сообщи́ть
subjective прилагательное	/səbˈd͡ʒɛktɪv/	субъекти́вный
curious прилагательное	/ˈkjʊɹ.i.əs/	любопы́тный, любозна́тельный
solve глагол	/sɒlv/	реша́ть, реши́ть
outcome существительное	/ˈaʊtkʌm/	исход
segment существительное	/ˈsɛɡmɛnt/	отре́зок, сегме́нт
dive глагол	/daɪv/	ныря́ть, нырну́ть
outline существительное	/ˈaʊtlaɪn/	ко́нтур, очерта́ние
podcast существительное	/ˈpɑdˌkæst/	подка́ст
clarity существительное	/ˈklæɹ.ɪ.ti/	я́сность
convey глагол	/kənˈveɪ/	переноси́ть, перенести́
chart существительное	/t͡ʃɑɹt/	морска́я ка́рта
founder существительное	/ˈfaʊ̯n.dəː/	основа́тель, основа́тельница

Фразовые глаголы, которые вы услышите

Слово	Значение
pick up глагол	подбира́ть, подобра́ть
find out глагол	узнава́ть, узна́ть
sit down глагол	сади́ться, сесть
check out глагол	проверя́ть, прове́рить
come back глагол	возвраща́ться, возврати́ться
end up глагол	зака́нчиваться, зако́нчиться
figure out глагол	разбира́ться, разобра́ться
go out глагол	выходи́ть, вы́йти

Фразы, которые стоит повторять

Короткие законченные фразы из видео, которые пригодятся в повседневном разговоре:

What does the day -to -day look like for you?
I mean, that's what they do.
What is the communication problem you're trying to solve?
Are you using a keyboard?
Where do you want them to go?

Грамматика в этом видео

Конструкции, которые говорящий использует чаще всего, с точными словами из видео:

Конструкция	В видео
Present Perfect have/has + причастие прошедшего времени — прошлое действие, важное сейчас	I've certainly learned · have been done · have picked
Пассивный залог be + причастие прошедшего времени — важно, что происходит, а не кто это делает	could be applied · have been done · be done
Придаточные определительные who / which + предложение — уточнение о человеке или предмете	minutiae, which is · purpose, which is · people who love

Произношение, на которое стоит обратить внимание

Говорящий использует 115 сокращённых и редуцированных форм, например I'm, you're, don't. Произносите их коротко, так, как слышите.

Звуки «th»: math /mæθ/, thrive /θɹajv/, ethos /ˈiθɑs/, wordsmith /ˈwɝdˌsmɪθ/
Звуки «sh» и «zh»: conclusion /kənˈkluːʒən/, rush /ɹʌʃ/, sharp /ʃɑɹp/, confusion /kənˈfjuːʒən/, beneficial /ˌbɛn.ɪˈfɪʃ.əl/
Длинные слова — следите за ударением: communicate /kəˈmjuːnɪkeɪt/, academia /ˌæk.əˈdi.mi.ə/, incredibly /ɪŋˈkɹɛdɪbli/, intelligent /ɪnˈtɛlɪd͡ʒənt/, differently /ˈdɪf.ə.ɹənt.li/

Звуки, трудные для русскоязычных:

/w/ — губы округлены, это не /v/: workplace /ˈwɝkˌpleɪs/, backward /ˈbækwɚd/, overwhelm /ˌoʊ.vɚˈwɛlm/, swoop /ˈswuːp/, webinar /ˈwɛb.əˌnɑː/
/h/ — лёгкий выдох, а не русское «х»: helpful /ˈhɛlp.fl̩/, enhance /ɪnˈhæns/, holistic /hoʊˈlɪs.tɪk/, longhand /lɔŋˌhænd/
Звонкие согласные в конце слова — не оглушайте их: subjective /səbˈd͡ʒɛktɪv/, solve /sɒlv/, dive /daɪv/, engage /ɪnˈɡeɪd͡ʒ/, objective /ɒbˈd͡ʒɛk.tɪv/

Как заниматься с этим видео

Прослушайте всё видео один раз молча и выпишите незнакомые слова.
Начните со скорости 0,75×, повторяйте предложение за предложением и вернитесь к обычной скорости, когда станет легко.
Запишите себя и сравните с оригиналом, обращая внимание на такие слова, как edit, reader, communicate.

Что такое техника Shadowing?

Shadowing — это научно обоснованная техника изучения языка, изначально разработанная для подготовки профессиональных переводчиков и популяризированная полиглотом доктором Александром Аргуэльесом. Метод прост, но эффективен: вы слушаете аудио на английском от носителей языка и немедленно повторяете вслух — как тень, следующая за говорящим с задержкой в 1–2 секунды. В отличие от пассивного прослушивания или грамматических упражнений, Shadowing заставляет мозг и мышцы рта одновременно обрабатывать и воспроизводить реальные речевые паттерны. Исследования показывают, что это значительно улучшает точность произношения, интонацию, ритм, связную речь, понимание на слух и беглость речи — что делает его одним из самых эффективных методов для подготовки к IELTS Speaking и реального общения на английском.

Техника шедоуинга: читать полное пошаговое руководство →

Практика Shadowing: Tips for Effective Technical Writing in Engineering - Изучайте разговорный английский по видео

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Ключевая лексика этого видео

Фразовые глаголы, которые вы услышите

Фразы, которые стоит повторять

Грамматика в этом видео

Произношение, на которое стоит обратить внимание

Как заниматься с этим видео

Что такое техника Shadowing?