Shadowing Practice: Robert Downey Jr. & Mark Ruffalo | Actors on Actors - Learn English Speaking with Video
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on one of these Avengers movies you like take off your shirt
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or thing and you're you're you're in really good shape
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and the director was like we got it you're like can I please stop dieting
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and working out now exactly there is no one I've ever
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come across who is actually more anxious to not be vain
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past the point where it is necessary to achieve an end for their work is that a compliment It's a huge compliment.
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Robert Downey Jr. and I met in 1995.
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Yep.
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And I was dating an old friend of his.
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Yes.
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Sunrise Kuan Yeh.
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Correct.
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who was close with my previous administration, Deborah Falconer.
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And we were over at, I think, well, it was that beautiful kind of Spanish style on the hills.
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On Grace Avenue.
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That's right.
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Grace Avenue.
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And Sonny brought me over to meet Debbie.
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And you came by and I was like, holy shit, that's Robert Downey.
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And Sonny was like, hey, Robert.
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Yeah, don't flatter me too much we were already hearing about this Mark Ruffalo guy who was making a splash
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and was going to be on the come up.
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Yeah.
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You didn't buy that.
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Do you want me to try another take?
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No, no. I was just bartending at that time.
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And that's what I hear about me.
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But Sonny did see something in me.
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Yeah.
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Really, I would say we knew each other,
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ancillary reasons but we really met when Fincher cast us in Zodiac yeah
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and I remember Mark is doing a scene in a phone booth about take 218
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and I'm visiting San Francisco because I'm about to start right
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and I could just see the character that you had built
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and I was like oh my god I I better find one.
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That's great.
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You are amazing.
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The minute we, didn't we do a table read too?
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Yes.
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Yeah, we did that table read.
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And that was, that movie was, what a wild ride that was.
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Yeah.
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I called Fincher recently because in retrospect, everything changes.
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It's like 15 years later, you have such a different perspective on stuff, you know, and then for me even after working with nolan i developed a new respect for fincher
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but i remember
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that was maybe the first time we really had our feet
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put to the fire with an exacting director a real director who does things a certain way
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and i mean the result was you know people still say
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that scene with you and ruffalo in the parking lot
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or those scenes and blah blah blah
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and i kind of go like i just have a vague memory of it all yeah me too
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but that is on the top level of so many people's uh favorites
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and i have a story to tell okay okay we're shooting a scene in the mail room
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and we've done it about 60 times 60 yeah
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and you know mark's been working a bunch of days in a row i'm feeling a bit uh mischievous
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and he's like we got it right
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and i was like yeah this is ridiculous
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and then fincher says well do we got it he was
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down he come here i want the scene to start like
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because i wanted to work out you want it to work as a one-er no we don't have it
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and he And he goes, Downey says we don't have it.
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So Mark, you can go to lunch.
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We'll scrap all those takes and we'll start over again.
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Exactly.
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And he invented the delete button.
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There was no delete button ever in digital cinema.
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And he specifically had it invented so that he could say, we're gonna delete takes one through 45.
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And you're just like, no, no, no, no. But you know, why is it?
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38 was my baby.
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But isn't it because some part of this just wants to be off the hot seat and done.
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And we also know that there's always that thing of you, A, you wanna make mom or dad happy,
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B, you kind of just, it's not that you wanna be done, it's that you wanna feel that there's progress that's being made because you're helping.
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Yes, and you just want someone to say that was good enough, let's move on.
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Do you feel like after all this time that you still have that kind of, that sort of push and pull with it? Of course.
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Yeah, everything is,
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it's a constant battle between either seeking approval or seeking my own subjective kind of like
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being able to maintain interest over time, you know?
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And then we had this on this whole decade and a half Marvel run
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where we were just looking at each other like, God, we're really lucky.
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what are we doing?
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Who's a wizard?
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Who's coming from outer space?
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Which I think was another great challenge.
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Yeah.
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From where we came from.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I'll never forget, you know, you, we don't have to go down this road,
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but you, you, you, to see this great, um, character in the actor
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who was always doing this great character work so alive
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so um relatable so human to take that step into a studio world
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which was totally different back then than it is now
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and you and i know what
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that is it was such a different world they didn't really cast people like like us
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and And just to see you transform
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that whole concept of what a studio picture was and to elevate sort of this character work within that big tentpole system,
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which appealed so massively to so many different people and made the space for other people like us that, you know, I'll never forget.
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I was like, I don't know if I'm right for this.
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And you're like, come on, Ruffalo.
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We got this.
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Yeah, how's that new brownstone on the Upper West Side?
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Thank you.
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Yeah, please, dude.
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I mean, I don't know who thinks who.
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It's just kind of, it really is odd for those watching at home.
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It is a surreal experience to be sitting here with you, lo these years later.
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and now to both be here on behalf of projects
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that I think we're so proud of and are done by such gifted filmmakers
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and you know you kind of wonder right like didn't I
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already have my act too isn't this the slow decline
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if they foamed the runway
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so back to your first question is of course there's it's
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nowhere to live though right it's nowhere to live thinking your your best days or your best creative moments are behind you, A, it's not true, and B, it's just debilitating.
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Yeah, which is why I even brought this up.
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Because, you know, you've done it all.
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I mean, you have it all.
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You don't have to prove anything to anybody.
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Dad, oh no, go ahead.
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Well, dad even, to some degree.
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You got that at the end, you know?
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Sure.
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In the most beautiful way, right?
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And then you come and you do this part in Oppenheimer.
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Dr. Oppenheimer.
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An honor.
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Mr. Strass.
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It's pronounced Strasser.
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It's just another level, you know, it's just, it's just, you, you break it all down.
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You put yourself out in a way that you didn't have to.
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We see a total character, a physical change, a vocal change,
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um a different kind of guy none of the mannerisms of anything
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that we'd ever seen before that you that you had perfected and had become so second nature to you
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and they had that kind of discipline and
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that kind of of reach for that next thing is really admirable
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and why I have always looked up to you and why I continue to look up to you.
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And that thing still, I mean, talk about that.
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Like, what was that?
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Why is that still alive?
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I mean, look, and then we'll move on to a far more interesting subject.
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which is you and poor things.
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All I know is I got a call.
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Chris Nolan had a new kind of what it was.
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I went over to his house.
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It was black type on red paper, you know, and they send it like that so you can't copy it.
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It was like Sudoku to get through 180 pages.
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And I left there just knowing I was going to do it.
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And everybody and, you know, Susan and everyone was like, you need a challenge like this.
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And I go, I don't like it when everyone else is telling me what I need.
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And the truth be told is it all wound up to I've tried everything else.
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How about trying to really focus on doing as little as possible just once?
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And correspondingly, I have, I've known you a long time.
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I know what you're like when you're feeling froggy and you're kind of having a good time and you're loose.
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And I know what you're like.
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I know what you're like when you're pensive.
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I know what you're like when you're concerned about the state of the world.
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I know what you're like when you're comfortable with homeostasis.
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But I did not know that this character existed inside of you.
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You were in my son.
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What?
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I remember how apprehensive you were about doing this too, just as I had all this approach to anxiety.
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Did you have that apprehension too?
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For Louis Strauss, of course.
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Yes.
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because you always wonder someone else believes in you you know
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that person is formidable you've seen their other work you go wow this is like an opportune moment
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and yet it's natural to have that
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doubt yeah and i'm interested to know for duncan how you got past that approach anxiety because
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you're just you're such a thoughtful guy and you're one of the people
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that i always say has such a strong and formidable moral psychology and you really don't make decisions lightly.
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So knowing what an absolute archetype,
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cad, misogynist, self-centered, shaming, blaming guide,
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but you redeemed it with this spark that was so delightful.
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I mean, I can't tell you what What a joy it was watching you in this and seeing the whole arc, the way you constructed it.
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But I wanna know what it was like before, during and after.
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It did scare the shit out of me.
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And I did say, well, you know, this isn't the kind of guy I play.
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You know, I had all that.
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I'm embarrassed to say.
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And Sunny and my wife, Sunrise, was like, have to do this
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and everyone was like you have to do it just like you you have to do it
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but you really have to get outside of your comfort zone
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and you also start to doubt yourself like you're saying you know you hit 55
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and you are kind of like maybe it's as good as
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i'll get maybe i am on the downward slide of this thing
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and i also at that time was like really kind of tired of
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my brand or you know whatever people you put on yourself.
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Yeah and isn't it funny when our wives will flat out say just don't worry everyone else is tired of it too.
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That's why you need to do this.
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But with Yorgos
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and McNamara I think you obviously had just two amazing partners in knowing how it would be executed
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and what was in the text.
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And I've gotten to speak at least to McNamara recently.
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So what was that process like for you just a little bit?
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And at what point in the shoot did you feel like, oh, okay, I'm cooking with gas.
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Now I get it.
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I don't even know what scene you shot first.
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I would love to just know that.
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Well, we had this amazing rehearsal period, which we've never had.
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And it was literally 10 days of just theater games.
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Dancing, singing, movement, playing with each other's faces and bodies and then playing together as a group.
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And then we probably spent maybe only 20% on the actual script.
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And when we did read the script, we were telling people you have to raise your voice.
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Anytime you lifted your hand, that person have to raise their voice when they were doing the line.
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You had to touch someone's face when you were doing the line in the middle of a line, say, this is the most beautiful part of you.
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And and it's so it just like it obliterated your ideas of what you think it should be.
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Right.
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And the script is still there living in you.
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So as you're playing the character
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and the story is still kind of like surfacing its way up through the subconscious a little bit
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and you just get really free and you could go broad
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or you could go small and no one's judging you know everyone's laughing
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or they're not and there's no you can't do anything wrong you can't do anything right really
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and then you have those great words like the script is
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really telling you a lot i mean who gets to say you know some stuff I say.
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The first day though, it was a screen test that turned into our first day.
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Yurgos had built it, Yurgos Lathimos had built it as a screen test.
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But we're in full costume, full set, full everybody, everyone's there.
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And it's a scene between me and Willem.
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Okay, yeah.
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It's the first time.
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It's the only scene we really have together.
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Yeah.
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And I'm sweating bullets.
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I am shitting my pants.
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I'm like, what in the hell am I doing here?
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I like that Willem is in full SFX makeup and you're sweating.
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And he's sitting there like this.
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Really?
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And your girl comes up to me, he's like, oh, what are you doing?
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And I said, I don't know.
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He said, you already did this in rehearsal.
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You know what you're doing.
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And then he walked away.
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So wait, break that down.
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What did that mean and why did it help?
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You know, you get in front of the camera and then you're just, I gotta be.
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You gotta do something.
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I have to do something.
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God, man, we're literally on the same page.
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Right?
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It's crazy.
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I have to do something.
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And he was like, you don't have to do anything.
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You did it.
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You are it.
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Don't do anything.
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Don't do the look.
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You don't have to tell us what's going on here.
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Just trust what we did.
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And he scrapped that first day.
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I had to reshoot the first day.
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Great.
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It wasn't the first day.
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It was a screen test, Mark.
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It was a screen test.
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Wow.
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I wish every first day was a screen test.
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I know.
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I would, isn't it a genius?
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Yeah.
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I have to say, I also stole from you in this.
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Great.
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Some of Sherlock Holmes, Charlie Chaplin.
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I mean, you, more than any other actor, you have this kind of physical mischief.
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You know, you know the cad very well.
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It's the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it?
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It's beautiful.
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Well, thanks for that.
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I mean, we're all always drawing from myriad influences, conscious and otherwise, you know.
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But again, it's so funny how, because I remember seeing you on screen first.
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And I know right when I was starting off, I seemed to have this ability to say, be subtle, do less, let the emotion come to the forefront.
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Sometimes I watch stuff I did when I was younger and I just go, well, that's how you should do it.
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What the hell am I doing nowadays?
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And obviously we fall into ruts and patterns.
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But, you know, with Nolan, very much unlike Yorgos, but also effective,
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we were doing screen tests on IMAX, which is crazy.
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So, you know that you're being captured in like a David Lean sort of format.
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And some part of you is going, what's this going to be like? you're just trusting the director and hoiteman hoitema who obviously this is what they do
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and when they go this is good that's good you're kind of like all right
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so i'm off the hook and you would go back
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and sit in your set chair no you wouldn't
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because there were no set chairs so it was very spartan
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and very like a hundred people making a watch every day
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so and i've had experiences like you discussed and i love
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that feeling like i'm going back to basics in a sense of play and melding with the cast.
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And I think because of the nature and the scope of what Chris was doing,
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there honestly just wasn't time for that or money or energy or whatever.
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And the schedule actually became even more truncated for reasons as we approached shooting.
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So then it felt like every day we were just doing something that he knew what he was after.
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He had written it, He was directing it and it was very small amount of people on set.
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And I liked that too, because that reminds me of being a kid with my dad.
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And it's, it's him and his cameraman and the editor and some college dropouts, gaffers.
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And like, it's just kind of like, let's try something, you know.
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I had no idea there was that kind of intimacy.
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When I think of his films, I'm just seeing this like mass scale, but yeah that's
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that makes a lot of sense yeah
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because there are some really intimate performances in that film
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and i i was wondering how did he how did they
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how are they able to settle down with such a big production around them
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because it's all he cares about and he demands
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and requires this almost monastic energy so you know they're beyond no frills
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which as we know having been very well taken care of
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in certain situations you kind of feel like you're being stripped of your armor
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which he does intentionally but he also does it just
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so there's this it just creates a different vibe
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and then you're moving at such a clip that you realize
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if you're not getting and staying in the zone
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and not checking your phone
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and not hanging out a craft service oh there is no craft service
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that you're going to miss the pace of what he's doing
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but at the same time i've never ever in my career
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worked with a less judgmental director i've been in situations
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that were exacting and it seemed like
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if i would just do it correctly one time we wouldn't have to still be here whereas
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that was the exact opposite he said we do all these things to give you the time you need
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and see what kind of time you might need
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or i might want and all that stuff so i felt
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that there was both in in poor things and i facetimed uh emma
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and uh really want to reach out to everyone
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but it was this thing where y'all seem to have this very concise execution
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but you feel all the sense of play in it
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and you feel the you know it was a really a
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high wire rack was it fun it must have been fun
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oh it was the time of my life i mean once i got to play
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that guy with no sense of self-consciousness
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or you know no sense of morality really no sense no sense of any bounds whatsoever
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that hold us you know but you redeemed him because there's something
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so lonely and it's almost like he wants to wake up but there's something that's happening or happened and But also,
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I have never seen you play someone who is hopelessly hung up on something he can't control.
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And I think it was genius casting because it was this thing that I could, there's a version of you where if Sonny had rejected your advances,
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you may have pined after her for a decade.
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Totally lost.
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I'd still be living in the garage that she found me in.
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Oh, brother.
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It's beautiful.
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and um yes it was a blast it was it was such a gift
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and it was such a you know
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that moment where you're like i don't know what
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which way to go anymore i don't you know i don't even know how i feel about this anymore
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and then i know you dude even that that senior on the bench
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and you're yelling the c word
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and i'm just like this is not my brother here like
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it's just not in your wheelhouse to think to act
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or behave that way so were you ever feeling like
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if not self-conscious about it a little bit like i don't even know
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if this is something i'm going to do as an exercise
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because i would not want to ever normalize this yeah on screen or in my eye so i'm wondering well
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then we're also living in this just incredibly oppressive feeling time yeah
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and it just does not allowed a room to be a human being anymore it feels like
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and that goes from art to society to i mean it's just it just feels incredibly impressive
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and something about that movie is like just it's just like you know fighting out against it
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and and it's it's walking like a disaster there is a disastrous self-destructive quality about it you know that felt so
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antithetical to the this oppressive time that we're living in even though the character is
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so dark and so up and so selfish and
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so all the things that we're supposed not supposed to be
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But it's almost like you're behaviorally modeling the world that you're wondering about.
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And blowing it open.
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Yeah.
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You know, all the eyes are on us.
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Everyone's eyes are on us all the time.
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And we have to be a certain way.
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And we have to look a certain way.
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And we have to sound a certain way.
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And our cabinets have got to be stocked with a certain kind of product.
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And, you know?
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This sounds very mid-century to me.
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And it's just like, you know,
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we're getting squashed into these boxes that don't let us express ourselves the way that we're made to express ourselves.
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Your behavior is unconscionable.
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We behave.
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The food was cacking my throat.
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The baby annoying.
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that was my experience of getting to say the c word
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at the top of my lungs getting to be a cad
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because it's underneath all that is still a humanity all of
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that behavior there's still a humanity underneath that that was the thing is the fact that i'm feeling bad for
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you in those moments and again it's so masterfully constructed
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because of course it's a fable
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but it's it's really underselling it to call it a fable
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and the fact that with all of the indulgences
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that occur it doesn't feel exploitative of the artists of the medium it feels very much like a
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reverse empowerment story that you have to tell it in almost this kind of fantastic way
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to be able to get all the information that's being downloaded.
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So there's just so much wisdom in there.
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That's such a great way of expressing.
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But hats off to you, dude.
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Hats off to you, man.
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Seriously, Robert, it's a you're you're one of those fine artists who is constantly growing
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as they move through their career.
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That's rare.
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And you are that.
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And I love you for it.
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And you have everything, Robert.
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You don't need to do that.
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What a terrible place to be.
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What do you mean?
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To quote unquote, if it's true, to be said about any of us to have everything.
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Is that sense of completion?
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And also convincing myself, I should be perfectly happy as I have everything.
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And yet you go like, we know where the work is that's left to be done.
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I know those little corners that I sweep the dust into that.
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I spent a lot of time making sure nobody sees.
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I know if not the defects, I know the things that I haven't really looked at.
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And again, you know, the crazy thing for me is I've been obsessed for the last five to seven years before Chris called me, probably longer.
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with the culture of the Cold War, because I felt it was so back upon us.
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And so by the time Chris called, I actually knew a fair amount about Louis Strauss
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because I had done a lot of deep dives into all the characters around this time, because I think it informed and then led to the Vietnam era,
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which is the era that I slash we am older than you were born in
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and was everything I was seeing on TV that wasn't a Nabisco commercial or a Charlie Brown cartoon
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was this dark mistrust of our misplacing of our forefathers highest wishes and that kind of dark corruption and all that stuff.
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So that has to be born out of this cold war
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that is born out of looking for answers to the conflict of World War II.
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And you were already down that road when this came along?
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Yeah.
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And I have to credit my deceased grandfather, Captain Robert Elias, who I never met.
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I had this fascination with a grandfather that I had never met.
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And I looked at pictures of him and it reminded me of dad.
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And my dad told me about him.
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And he was deployed in Sicily in North africa he was yeah around
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and but then he became a glass manufacturer
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and his big claim to fame was
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that his family had done the glass for the chrysler building
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and um my family painted the chrysler building they're construction painters
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so you see the touch points that's how close we are to all this right yeah
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and so that's you know light blue collar stuff to do
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and please just punch about
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that I think his his marriage to my grandmother who wound up being kind of like a vogue model
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and a bit of an absentee parent to my dad no wonder he just kept going back overseas
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because he didn't want to deal with a marriage that wasn't working
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and so anyway always been into it but I've been doing this deep dive
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so then I felt like I had a um an idea of someone who might have been back in time
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and then louis strauss was the president of temple emmanuel
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which we've walked by in new york a bunch yeah
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and i just did my little louis strauss tour
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and he's he's a kind of salieri kind of you know
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that's what chris said well i'm here to tell you
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that i know j robert oppenheimer
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if he could do it all over he'd do it all the same what did you relate to in
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that i mean bro come on i mean I mean, whether you're here or in New York, we will never forget.
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And I think still are imbued with the sense of being on that outside looking in.
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And when will it ever happen for us?
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And so-and-so is doing it and so-and-so is doing it.
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And I'm going to be left behind.
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And why even bother to dream?
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But the truth be told is he's both because he's a self-made guy who was a lifelong civil servant.
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and but how refreshing it was to not be playing the genius the gifted one all
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that stuff all the characters in the audience in the script imbues you with this status
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that you not possess but you presume it
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and I know what it's like to wish someone else hadn't embarrassed me in the street
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wish that I'd gotten past that velvet rope to go into
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that club wish that I'd gotten a call back for that part, wished that I'd gotten the second date with that girl, wished, wished, wished, wished, wished.
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So unlike Strauss, I wasn't doing the right things while I was wondering why my life wasn't going the right way.
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This is someone who, you know, from working for President Wilson to getting the Jewish refugees the notice they needed to be given support
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when that wasn't even popular in the U S to this, to that, to this, every single step of his life, of course, was consciously looking toward a political payoff,
454
but he really just wanted to be acknowledged by the people that he admired.
455
And so Chris constructed this story to what happens
456
when people don't listen to each other and don't make space for each other.
457
Or in this case of someone who can't even relate to people
458
because he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders, but that still doesn't mean they don't feel like, Hey, you know what, if I get a chance to stick it to you I will because you embarrassed me three times
459
three times at my birthday party that you attended when you blow off me introducing my daughter
460
when you uh you know give me crap in the senate
461
and when I don't understand this conversation you're having
462
so anyway mid-century insanity and we're still living with it yeah it's such a great performance man.
463
Why do people not just do this all the time?
464
If we want to talk about Courage Under Fire, the fact that 11 seconds into this performance you are buck naked
465
and going for it in a way that again wasn't gratuitous but it was very
466
um how was that and is
467
that really how you get down um i don't know robert that's the
468
that to me is the ultimate risk it's
469
so uh it was the one part of the thing i
470
was like do i have to what are we gonna do
471
with this you know all i could hear is like nobody wants to see your old ass anymore.
472
You know, maybe you shouldn't be doing movies like that anymore.
473
I mean, it's my least favorite part of it, but, you know, I also saw it as very comedic,
474
you know, and also like an extension of the physical comedy that we're already sort of finding.
475
So it was just another way to tell the story.
476
I just want to say this too
477
because knowing you forever on one of these Avengers movies you like take off your shirt
478
or thing and you were you were you were in really good shape
479
and the director was I don't know
480
if it was uh we did it might have been Joss it might have been the Russo's
481
but anyway it's like we got it you're like oh can I please stop dieting and working out now.
482
There is no one I've ever come across who is actually more anxious to not be vain
483
past the point where it is necessary to achieve an end for their work.
484
Is that a compliment?
485
It's a huge compliment but I gotta say, A, you look pretty bangable to me, in case you were wondering.
486
Thanks man.
487
Because the guy, I mean, I mean yeah, yeah it was pretty good.
488
He is who he is.
489
And by the way the costumes, I don't even want to, if we start going down the road of just like
490
all of the delights of the department heads
491
and it was shot in budapest in budapest right
492
so you get all those artisans and you're all there
493
and just you're getting so much value
494
but it's still this kind of fantastical backgrounds but then everything you're physically seeing is just so
495
fine down to the detail i mean dude i'm just looking
496
i'm literally looking at the back of some of your jackets
497
going god i've never been able to wear a jacket the cool cut like that I was like, do you know I had an ass pad in?
498
I had my legs were like four inches bigger.
499
My calf was four.
500
I mean, he really wanted the silhouette.
501
So I was wearing a corset with like shoulder pads.
502
So I was so squeezed in.
503
Beautiful.
504
And you know, that whole, that was the corset.
505
That was the high collar.
506
It was the whole thing.
507
Are you wearing a corset in one of the scenes?
508
Yes, I wear a corset when I take off.
509
And that's, Duncan wears a corset, you know?
510
It's like kinda, yeah, I mean, that stuff was, it was even more extreme.
511
He wanted me to look like a bird, so I had this whole built out chest piece that I was wearing.
512
It never made it, because it was just, it was too much.
513
But the big ass pads, the leg pads, the thigh pads, the calf pads, those were all playing.
514
So when you look at that and you're like, wow, he looks great.
515
Now you know I was just wearing what the Avengers wear, but underneath my clothes.
516
Honestly, I didn't expect that there was any augmentation going on.
517
So it was done really well.
518
Yeah, but the bird chest would have been too much but I think I know what he was going for, particularly with all the hybrids that are occurring in the movie and the nature of it, you know?
519
Is just to tweak it.
520
But I love it when a director has an instinct that they go, I have this instinct, I'm sticking to it, I'm sticking to it, I'm wrong and they dump it.
521
That's when I begin to really trust someone is they are changeable and they're not fixed.
522
They're not obsessive, they're actually exploring, you know?
523
And Yorgos, we explored all the time.
524
It was all an exploration.
525
I just want to say before we run out on this card, so many of your scenes are with Emma Stone.
526
And I am pretty obsessed with her now.
527
I've always thought she was great, but this is just a this is just such a defining moment as an actor for her watching her.
528
And you have the joy and also the, you know, the the ability.
529
It seems like you guys just had this.
530
You had great chemistry.
531
Thanks.
532
And what was all that that whole arc like? and supporting her in this?
533
Well, I mean, I think she's one of the greats and still like developing into how great she's going to be.
534
You know, I'm insecure and she gets that about me and at the same time is like so nurturing to me.
535
And we were kind of playing that part with each other because, you know, in a lot of ways, this could have been disastrous.
536
We're right on the razor's edge.
537
It could easily fall over, you know?
538
And so we both had a lot of fear and insecurity about it.
539
And so we just found ourselves really taking care of each other.
540
But then also all that play.
541
Like Emma laughs, her laugh like travels the world, you know.
542
When she laughs, it comes up to your feet and bubbles up to your body.
543
And the next thing you know, you're just lit up with that.
544
And to have that, you know, every time, every take, we're both sort of laughing and playing and seeing how far we could push it.
545
And turning into these, like, there's just a lot of space to just,
546
it was just very safe between us.
547
And so to turn into these two people, to come back, like, Mark and Emma, and then all of a sudden, you know, become Bella and Duncan.
548
It's great, man.
549
There's such amazing just physical choreography between the two of you the choreo
550
that it seemed like some of it was managed
551
but a lot of it was discovered but you can tell
552
when you have a good dance partner oh yeah it just
553
seemed like you guys really knew how to do the to share the stage
554
and that came a lot from our rehearsal
555
because we were doing all this movement stuff together you know right
556
and so we were moved as a as a troop we're moving as one
557
and then as individuals within
558
that troop we were sort of a lot of it was
559
was getting in the sync was was listening to somebody's body you know so you'd have an exercise where
560
every movement that i made you had to move your arm like that you know so it'd just be like
561
and then turn around and so you someone else is conducting you you know
562
and that that really like that kind of connection it plays you know you pick
563
that up and then you take it with you particularly on the boat in the dining hall
564
that whole sequence which to me in
565
and of itself is like a little one act play it's showing about how you want to be perceived
566
and how she's not playing along
567
and then by the time you're just smacked down on you
568
know all these guys i was like oh my god how much of
569
that really was the stunts or all that stuff was choreographed
570
because some of it felt just like safe chaos it was
571
safe chaos okay we would try to choreograph it with a stunt man
572
and your girls would be like no this this is no no no
573
and he's like what would you what would you you you come in you, what do you do?" And he would ask me and I'd be like, oh, I think this.
574
And he's like, okay, I like that.
575
And what if he gets on you here?
576
And we just sort of made it up.
577
And in the end, there's that kind of tug of war thing.
578
That was just background people, you know, he said, you come in and grab them and you help them and you fight them.
579
And whatever happens, we're going to shoot it.
580
That's why it was a wide shot, you know?
581
And it was, all we knew is that me and her
582
that Duncan and Bella would be doing this tug of war
583
and these guys would try to be pulling us apart
584
and I'd be fighting them off and then coming back
585
and it and it just it was chaos wow
586
but we learned how to be safe with each other
587
and we had the dance which was choreographed
588
but he didn't want it to feel choreographed so every director always says that and then they wind up choreographing it.
589
And he was just adamantly throwing that out.
590
We have our decades of Marvel, which is its own style, right?
591
You have Iron Man, Tony Stark, who is its own style.
592
And it's so different than Strauss.
593
Sure.
594
And how do you make that transition?
595
I mean, and yeah, how do you go about that?
596
Because it takes, I mean, when I see your work in that, I'm like, that is such a disciplined,
597
thoughtful, unique expression of what Robert does,
598
and so different than what he had done up until that point.
599
You know, I've always wondered why you didn't involve him in the Manhattan Project.
600
Greatest scientific mind of our time.
601
I'm going to build on something you've been saying of going back to that kind of like theater camp play, but also knowing the discipline of theaters.
602
You know, sometimes you're doing theater so long that by the time you're doing film,
603
you're too big sometimes you're doing film so long that by the time you're doing theater you're too small
604
um
605
and then sometimes you know what i mean it was always
606
kind of like trying to calibrate just to keep yourself interested
607
and i just remember going this is a lot of words
608
and they're really specific and they're really important
609
so i just went back to like the first time i had to do a one-act play
610
or when i was doing jiva theater in rochester and i was like just get off book
611
and I obsessively went into a mode where I was name rank
612
and serial number if you woke me up in the middle of the night I would know it
613
and the last time I really really did
614
that was for the Iron Man screen test
615
when there were these three scenes
616
that I could have been off book in two days
617
but I just went crazy on them for two
618
and a half months this time I needed the three to five months
619
so I again like theater I started with the words
620
and I knew that I wanted to do enough physically to be different I knew
621
that in black and white getting the right shape would be good
622
and losing the right amount of weight and moving a certain way
623
and again like I know this kind of person I know the political animal
624
and then it's just watching what else is going on like watching Killian like okay that's Mozart
625
so that's what he's doing and I have to be this other thing
626
so it was also great
627
because I got a lot of perspective on you know people
628
through the years coming into play oh the great Tony Stark
629
I mean it's all you know we're all kind of doing the same thing
630
and I I hate it when people poo-poo a genre
631
because they're all hard and they're all high art
632
when they're done well but I just remember
633
that it was the text it was really thinking about he
634
didn't want voices he didn't want accents he didn't want makeup
635
he didn't want anything yeah he wanted the very least amount of interaction with the department heads as possible
636
but even by the time you're going on set they're like
637
filling in my earring hole with uh with stuff just so
638
that you couldn't seeing an extreme close-up because he wouldn't have
639
when i was like god they're really paying attention to detail here
640
so why don't i and it was really framed
641
because you know me i i'm i'm very ectomorphic i don't like to be constrained i know
642
and it's all chris wanted so i thought well this is going to be hard
643
but easy but you back to that discipline it's transformative
644
i didn't see robert downey jr in there i didn't see it and you know i didn't see that
645
And it was so exciting.
646
And it's so interesting because it was that containment.
647
You have the comedy, the movement.
648
I remember every time we worked together, you have props set.
649
You have this.
650
You're moving from there to there to there.
651
It's pop, boom, boom, boom.
652
And it's electrifying.
653
but just for you to just and be that still
654
and I love what you say about learning those lines like
655
that because that's man what a great plan well I mean also in the marvel days like everything might change
656
or we're talking to a tennis ball or I mean you
657
and I the science bros we would have these long passages about absolute gobbledygook
658
but still it's important to us
659
because you know it's part of the characters we didn't know what
660
that was it'd be a little hard to dig in i
661
mean we would just drive each other insane on set going like why can't i retain this
662
but again we know
663
when it's time to tighten things up a little bit um anyway i found great joy in it
664
and it was this 50-year
665
circle of going back to santa fe where i was with my dad
666
when he shot this film called greaser's palace yeah i stayed right 50 steps from the place
667
that i remember the the crew meeting up to you know
668
hang out when we weren't shooting and going
669
and seeing los alamos they didn't actually have any scenes there
670
but shooting in the baton memorial uh building
671
and just going in all these places you know it was all done very practically
672
and i've said this before but it was this moment where we're shooting something in pasadena
673
and and nolan just put this mag of a 70 millimeter
674
i didn't hear that yeah they were changing out mags
675
and he was like hold this and he just put it on my lap
676
and i was just like
677
because you know film yeah i love i will continue to love
678
and i'm happy to eventually in some way re-engage with sci-fi fantasy it's got its own upside but
679
anything that over time takes you further
680
and further away from the experience of just the hardware of what it is we do yeah
681
which is these machines these souls that sensitive metal which
682
which is why it was also beautiful just to be shooting on film, not digital.
683
I got used to digital after Zodiac, because I knew if Fincher's doing it, it's not going away.
684
And is it more efficient?
685
Yes, but you lose those natural rhythms of changing out the mag.
686
And it was just those little times and everyone kind of socialized.
687
And even the clapper loader knew like he was kind of like hitting the brake bell, or if not the brake bell,
688
like running a metronome on the rhythms of this mode of working
689
so it was all
690
that stuff you know you know we have this um we have we have the marvel universe we we have the
691
we we have all of this product that is either already part of something or a brand
692
And then you have Oppenheimer come out, which is completely original kind of source material.
693
And it explodes in a time where people are like really wondering, well, what is cinema now?
694
After Marvel, after franchises, you know, after IP, what is cinema now?
695
And what did you feel and think about that?
696
It's kind of exceptional all looking back now i think about robert pattinson being in tenet
697
which i thought wow it's another great chris nolan movie it
698
happened at the worst possible time there was the fracturing with the studio all this stuff
699
and pattinson gives them unwrap oppenheimer's letters these moments in life
700
where you realize the inception of something occurred in the most organic way and also
701
So Pattinson and Tenet was an incredible departure for him.
702
Yes.
703
So this incredible departure from one of our younger peers turns
704
into him making a personal gift to arguably one of the greatest directors of his generation,
705
turns into him deciding that it's sticking with him.
706
And then I always wonder if something about the organic nature of how something starts
707
and how pure it is
708
and the confidence of the people who bring it forward is uh isn't a great contributor
709
and then there's just that thing zeitgeist whatever you want to call it
710
and honestly i would be every bit as proud
711
if it hadn't broken even or just done pretty good
712
but i think the great thing is it speaks to our taste the audience's taste for novelty
713
and for craftsmanship
714
which is again why i'm telling you i mean poor things
715
is already making a splash as it's on the horizon of coming out
716
and whether this airs
717
but it'll be after people have already seen this i mean
718
you're next buddy that's all i gotta say we'll see well it's it's it's
719
so fantastic thank you yeah some people say i don't know
720
if it'd be forever when i go then Maybe you don't know everyone.
721
Thank you.
הורד אפליקציה
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שיעור הדיבור הזה ברמה B2 מבוסס על הסרטון “Robert Downey Jr. & Mark Ruffalo”. בסרטון הזה יש 721 משפטים ו-8034 מילים לתרגול Shadowing. הדיבור נמשך 50:06. הדובר מדבר בקצב טבעי של כ-160 מילים בדקה, קרוב לשיחה יומיומית. 85% מהמילים נמצאות בין 3,000 המילים הנפוצות ביותר באנגלית; כדאי ללמוד את השאר לפני שמתחילים.
אוצר מילים מרכזי בסרטון הזה
15 המילים המתקדמות ביותר בסרטון, עם ההגייה והמשמעות שלהן:
| מילה | הגייה | משמעות |
|---|---|---|
| corset שם עצם | /ˈkɔː(ɹ).sɪt/ | מחוך |
| compliment שם עצם | /ˈkɑmpləmənt/ | מחמאה |
| rehearsal שם עצם | /ɹɪˈhɝsl̩/ | חֲזָרָה, תִּרְגּוּל |
| construct פועל | /ˈkɑn.stɹʌkt/ | הרכיב |
| embarrassed שם תואר | /ɪmˈbæɹ.əst/ | נבוך |
| cinema שם עצם | /ˈsɪn.ə.mə/ | בֵּית קוֹלנוֹעַ, קוֹלְנוֹעַ |
| fable שם עצם | /ˈfeɪbəl/ | מָשָׁל |
| calf שם עצם | /kɑːf/ | עגל, עֵגֶל |
| vain שם תואר | /veɪn/ | גאוותן |
| instinct שם עצם | /ˈɪn.stɪŋkt/ | אִינְסְטִינְקְט, יֵצֶר |
| behave פועל | /bɪˈheɪv/ | הִתְנַהֵג |
| collar שם עצם | /ˈkɑlɚ/ | צווארון |
| rhythm שם עצם | /ˈɹɪð.əm/ | קֶצֶב |
| anxious שם תואר | /ˈæŋkʃəs/ | חָרֵד |
| sweat פועל | /swɛt/ | הִזִּיעַ |
Phrasal verbs שתשמעו
| מילה | הגייה | משמעות |
|---|---|---|
| take off פועל | הֵסִיר, הוֹרִיד | |
| come back פועל | שָׁב | |
| come out פועל | /ˌkʌm ˈaʊt/ | יָצָא |
| go down פועל | ירד |
משפטים שכדאי לחזור עליהם
משפטים קצרים ושלמים מהסרטון שאפשר להשתמש בהם בשיחה יומיומית:
- Do you want me to try another take?
- The minute we, didn't we do a table read too?
- Who's coming from outer space?
- Did you have that apprehension too?
- I would, isn't it a genius?
דקדוק בסרטון הזה
המבנים שהדובר משתמש בהם הכי הרבה, עם המילים המדויקות מהסרטון:
| מבנה | בסרטון |
|---|---|
| הווה מושלם ממושך (Present perfect continuous) have/has been + -ing — פעולה שהתחילה בעבר ועדיין נמשכת עכשיו | mark's been working · I've been doing · you've been saying |
| הווה מושלם (Present perfect) have/has + past participle — פעולה שקרתה בעבר ועדיין יש לה חשיבות או השפעה עכשיו | we've done · you've done · have always looked |
| סביל (Passive voice) be + past participle — הדגש הוא על מה שקורה, לא על מי שעושה את הפעולה | be done · are done · be told |
| משפטי זיקה (Relative clauses) who / which + clause — מידע נוסף על אדם או דבר | guy who was · Yeah, which is · IMAX, which is |
הגייה ששווה לשים לב אליה
הדובר משתמש ב-257 קיצורים וצורות מקוצרות, כמו you're, don't, I'm. אמרו אותם בצורה הקצרה, כפי שאתם שומעים אותם.
- הצלילים של “th”: underneath /ˌʌndɚˈniθ/, thoughtful /ˈθɔːtfəl/, rhythm /ˈɹɪð.əm/, booth /buθ/, grandmother /ˈɡɹæn(d)ˌmʌðɚ/
- הצלילים של “sh” ו-“zh”: splash /splæʃ/, anxious /ˈæŋkʃəs/, conscious /ˈkɑn.ʃəs/, selfish /ˈsɛlf.ɪʃ/, consciousness /ˈkɑnʃəsnəs/
- מילים ארוכות — שימו לב להטעמה: formidable /ˈfɔɹmɪdəbəl/, practically /ˈpɹæk.tɪ.k(ə.)li/, exploration /ˌɛkspləˈɹeɪʃən/
צלילים שדוברי עברית מתקשים בהם:
- /æ/ — פתוח יותר מה-“אֶ” העברית, לא כמו “a” ב-“cup”: pad /pæd/, choreograph /ˈkɔɹjəɡɹæf/, embarrassed /ɪmˈbæɹ.əst/, disastrous /dɪˈzæs.tɹəs/, splash /splæʃ/
- /r/ — הלשון לא נוגעת בשום מקום, לא ה-“ר” הגרונית: corset /ˈkɔː(ɹ).sɪt/, marvel /ˈmɑɹvəl/, choreograph /ˈkɔɹjəɡɹæf/, rehearsal /ɹɪˈhɝsl̩/, construct /ˈkɑn.stɹʌkt/
- עיצור קולי בסוף מילה — /b/, /d/, /g/, /z/, /v/ בלי להפוך אותם לאטומים: pad /pæd/, oppressive /əˈpɹɛs.ɪv/, behave /bɪˈheɪv/, perceive /pɚˈsiv/, nowadays /ˈnaʊ.ə.deɪz/
איך לתרגל עם הסרטון הזה
- הקשיבו לכל הסרטון פעם אחת בלי לדבר, ורשמו את המילים שאתם לא מכירים.
- התחילו במהירות 0.75×, תרגלו Shadowing משפט אחר משפט, וחזרו למהירות רגילה כשזה מרגיש קל.
- הקליטו את עצמכם והשוו למקור, תוך תשומת לב למילים כמו corset, compliment, rehearsal.
מהי טכניקת השאדואינג?
שאדואינג היא טכניקת למידת שפה מבוססת מדע שפותחה במקור להכשרת מתורגמנים מקצועיים ופופולרית על ידי הפוליגלוט ד"ר אלכסנדר ארגואלס. השיטה פשוטה אך עוצמתית: אתה מקשיב לאודיו באנגלית ילידית וחוזר עליו בקול רם מיד — כמו צל העוקב אחרי הדובר עם עיכוב של 1–2 שניות בלבד. בניגוד להאזנה פסיבית או תרגילי דקדוק, שאדואינג מכריח את המוח והשרירים בפה לעבד ולשחזר דפוסי דיבור אמיתיים בו זמנית. מחקרים מראים שזה משפר משמעותית את דיוק ההגייה, האינטונציה, הקצב, הדיבור המחובר, הבנת השמיעה ושטף הדיבור — מה שהופך אותו לאחת השיטות היעילות ביותר להכנה לIELTS Speaking ולתקשורת באנגלית בעולם האמיתי.