Shadowing Practice: Jonathan Bailey & David Corenswet | Actors on Actors - Learn English Speaking with Video
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Sexiest man alive.
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Jonathan Bailey, sexiest man alive.
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It was so lovely to chat.
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Some people are Popeye and some people olive oil. And I'm...
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I was olive oil?
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That minor fourth, the...
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And then the way it comes back and it's twice as long.
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Anyway.
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Should we start the conversation?
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Well, this is...
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I don't know what this is.
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Should we start the two...
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There's a lot of cameras.
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Oh, yeah, that's true. So, Superman. Who?
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Superman.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I loved the film.
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Appreciate it.
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And I thought you were really extraordinary in it.
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Crypto!
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What the hey, dude?
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I thought you destroyed the whole...
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Superman robots.
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I thought I told you to keep an eye on him.
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And I thought that there's so much integrity and specificity in who both
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Clark and Superman are.
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But the thing that I really loved is that there was a re...
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It felt to me like a very honest and true version of integrity and therefore values and therefore cool.
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Because it was so heroic and the hero was entirely fallible and passionate
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and I feel like sees the world in a completely different way.
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The thought processes were very, it felt to me very sort of scientific.
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Oh, love that you said that.
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That rings very true with me generally in life, the sort of scientific curiosity,
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exploration, rigor, which does take a certain willingness to not be so cool,
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to like care very much about details and be willing to kind of look a little bit foolish by trying really hard.
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James is, I think, that way in life and especially with his movies.
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He loves making movies.
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He loves comic books.
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Even more so than wanting to make them good, he wants to make them fun and special and different.
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And he's got a real sense of humor, hasn't he?
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Oh, well, yeah.
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Because that really struck me within all of it.
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It felt like there was, it just felt like there was so many vibrant ideas.
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Like you were invited in someone's dream state.
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Yeah.
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And that's what is so exciting because.
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That's why you want to go to the movies is to like see a dream on the screen.
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And yeah, it's cool to have a director who leads with that.
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Yeah.
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And has great respect and wants to deliver something to an audience, but wants to deliver something that is unique to them,
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to themselves as a visionary.
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Yeah, and how they interpret the world.
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Yeah, it was really cool working like that.
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Because he also casts people who think that way and are excited about their craft and their art in that way.
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As an actor, there is just a desire to be more involved.
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Because you are the last person to find anything out.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And there are a lot of situations, I feel, where there's a culture of protecting actors from too much information,
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which I think can hamstring them sometimes, hamstring us.
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I often get frustrated feeling like I want to contribute in this moment when we're shooting the scene,
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but I don't know why we're shooting it in this room.
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Well, there's an amazing footage of you and James having an extraordinary conversation.
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Is this not the moment where I go, I was wrong to feel that way?
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That's exactly where the issue is, right?
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Because what he didn't tell you was it was wrong to feel that way.
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I always think there should be...
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God, this is such a nerd thing to say, but I always think there should be tension, but not friction.
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Generally.
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Like everywhere.
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In a creative process.
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And I felt like that was such a good example of tension.
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As in where there were two people who...
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I thought it was a brilliant moment, and it was actually kind of vulnerable.
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It's a bit like when you're rehearsing a play, and the idea of a play rehearsal being broadcast live would be...
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Because you have to be able to make those mistakes.
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Fucking let's do it.
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I think there's...
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I love that tension without friction is good, because friction creates unnecessary heat, but tension is how you get...
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And it's not economic.
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You hemorrhage energy with friction, whereas tension holds the energy.
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There was something about the conversation you had, and then you just went, yeah.
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You have to be vulnerable, which means showing Lex that your feelings are hurt, in the point when you really shouldn't.
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Great, great, great, great, great.
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I feel so lucky that that is on film because you have moments like that that don't, that just aren't captured.
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And it was interesting hearing from people what they thought of it.
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A range of everything from like, well, that's what always happens, that's the process, that's just what happens.
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All the way to like, what a terrible working environment.
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Oh.
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And it's interesting thinking, like in a workplace, that kind of conversation might be kind of,
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it might not be appropriate to even raise your voice in that way.
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I see, yeah, yeah.
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But for me, I was like, that's the most exciting question you could do.
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And for me, it does happen all the time.
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I have not, I don't think I've, I don't know, I haven't worked with that many directors or that many people.
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It was amazing how indefatigable James was.
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He very rarely got fed up with me because I think he knew
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that the reason I'm having those conversations with him is At my boldest,
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it's because I think I might see something that he doesn't see and he might value.
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And if I let him see it, then he'll go, ah, yes, that's what I want.
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Yeah.
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I never want anybody, any director to say, fine, if you need that, go do it.
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Because it's not, I'm not doing it just for me.
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Sometimes you need that.
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But like, mostly it's like, I might see something here that you actually like once you see it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And then you'll feel like it's yours.
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Yeah.
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But on the other end of it is, I don't know how to do a good job otherwise.
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I got this criticism in theater school quite a lot of like, you need to know before you do.
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You need a reason to do what you're doing.
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You need to know how it's gonna work out before you do it.
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And that was a good lesson to learn.
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I think as an actor, you do need to let go.
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Do you mean make choices or do you?
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Well, it was described to me as leaping off a cliff, just acting before you're ready is another phrase.
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You're doing a scene.
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As a young actor, you're sort of waiting to feel ready to make the action, to start yelling, to cross.
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I see what you mean, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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In a way I heard, yes, I know exactly what you mean.
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There's a practice of just walk before you're ready to walk.
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Just say the line before you're ready to say the line.
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That's what we do as humans, isn't it?
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Well, sometimes, but I think we do it at our most interesting, and that's the most important thing,
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is as actors, you don't want to just be human, you want to be humans at their most interesting, dynamic, dramatic moments.
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Otherwise, you know, it's drama is life with all the boring bits cut out.
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Yeah.
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Wicked for Good is fucking fantastic.
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I got to see it early.
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We know who could.
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We both know who could and who has.
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And I have to find her because if someone else gets there first, she...
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Yeah, I'm worried for her too.
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You fly in this movie.
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We both kiss levitating!
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Yes.
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But let me tell you this because you have the bigger challenge.
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You are carried by Cynthia.
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She's levitating you.
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That's right, yeah.
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I have never, every man out there would think there's no way you can look masculine
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and powerful and in control when you're being levitated by a woman.
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And you, my greatest privilege, you somehow in that moment when she's lifting you by your arms, I think, or like your fucking massive arms,
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you somehow maintained your masculinity and your, your, I don't know, it was just, it was amazing that moment when she flies you in that song,
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which is one of my favorite songs in the musical.
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Yeah, me too, actually.
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That minor fourth, the...
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And then the way it comes back and it's twice as long.
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Anyway, I listened to it on repeat on the car ride yesterday.
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Well done, mate, because it's a lot easier when you get to carry the girl.
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And when you're being carried, not easier.
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Oh my god, yeah, I mean, it was like a total honor.
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And also, yeah, I mean, listen, I'll be carried by both Cynthia and Ari for the rest of my life if I could be.
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You know, what a treat to be able to, you know, just to come and do my bit, but also to share a moment like that
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and like even technically to be in a harness and opposite her
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while singing it's just you know it's incredible yeah
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and to see elphaba's you know powers
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you know used for as in her expression of rage in the first film
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and then having this blissful moment of love and what
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that does for the first time i did see superman
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i was like i feel wicked oh i saw your kiss at the end
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which by the way there's my favorite moment of chemistry above all of it is the chuckle.
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You know, I think, and James might correct me when we go to shoot the sequel, I was doing that chuckle,
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I was laughing in that moment at the end when she says, I love you too.
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And he came up to me and said, it's not working.
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It needs to be solemn, it needs to be...
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Tension, not friction.
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And I was like, no, no, the whole point is, I fucking know that you love me.
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I thought it was so brilliant.
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Because it was just so...
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Credit to James if I'm right.
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He was right on 90 % of everything, But on that one, he saw that that chuckle was a very truthful thing.
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I also think that there's a performed sense of, like, male romance, which is that it's held, and it's not.
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And actually, it's the giddiness and the playfulness that comes from a secure, you know, when you finally know that you're there,
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which just makes your heart sing.
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And when you're in this huge film like
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Superman, the fact that you grounded it in those moments, obviously working with Rachel and Nick Cole is brilliant.
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Yeah, the best.
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That is what makes a leading man smash it out of the park.
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So when you get the call for Superman, presumably no one's ever mentioned that to you before in your life, because that was a wild,
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you know, casting against type must have been crazy.
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Well, when I got the audition, I was standing on a ladder changing a light fixture.
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Saving the world.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Saving this light fixture.
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And my agent, there was a lot of people on the call, which is usually either really good news or really bad news.
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And my agent said, we think you know what this is about.
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Oh, gosh.
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And I said, I know, what is it?
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That gives me chills.
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Is it Top Gun 3?
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What am I waiting for?
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So I was not, I really was not expecting it, although I think other people thought that I should be expecting it.
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I feel like that's an exact memory of when I've been told off growing up.
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Really?
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I think you know what this is about.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You're sort of like, What have I done?
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If I don't know, I feel like I've done something wrong that I forgot about.
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Something so wrong, but it's so right, that you're now going to play Superman.
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Yeah, but it's all very impossible.
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I mean, just statistically speaking, not to mention experientially, it feels completely impossible.
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Do you have that feeling?
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Yes generally like in in the way I've been plugged into some sort of matrix yeah yes
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and and it persists I feel like I feel like I've been slowly working on the hardware over the years
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but the software has just been accidentally upgraded right you know tenfold in it you know
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and it's sort of crazy sort of exponential yeah yeah well in the software referring to like you're still
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you inside there and so like the the external things have changed but at at some point you're, or what do you mean?
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Well, in fact, maybe I mean that the hardware, the software's catching up, maybe.
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Although the hardware is something that you can, you physically can hone.
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What's the hardware in this analogy?
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Okay, well, my original thought was that the hardware is literally your body and your skill set.
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Right, which is developing no matter what job you're working on, no matter what, you're growing, you're building it, you're...
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Totally, give me a workshop reading in The Cut, which is in Southwark in London,
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the National Theatre, for a play that may or may not get put on.
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And, you know, I've applied the same process to that than I would do for, you know, prepping for this conversation.
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Yeah, of which we did a lot.
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We did, I know.
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Because we've got things in common, haven't we?
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Yeah, well, theater's one of them.
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And from a young age?
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Yes, yeah.
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How old were you when you started?
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I was nine when I did my first professional play in Philadelphia.
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That's incredible.
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Is it the Arden Theater?
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The Arden Theater, yes.
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So describe the theater to me.
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Has it got one?
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Oh, yeah.
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It's got two.
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Can you smell it?
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No, that's not one of the...
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Not that smell doesn't do that to me, but...
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It's famously a smelly thing.
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I don't generally remember smells.
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I feel like when I get hit with a scent, I can place it.
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As a memory sense.
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But what I remember is...
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I was nine, I played Bert in All My Sons, a great play by Arthur Miller.
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Yeah, of course.
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It's about nine characters all in the backyard of a house.
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Bert is the...
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Next -door neighbor, the kid next door.
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Yes, yep.
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Who gets to play policemen.
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What a great part.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I had two scenes in the first act where I just come on, I have some fun with the main actor,
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and then I fuck off before intermission to go home to bed so I can wake up for school the next morning.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But all my memories of the theater are from sitting in the audience watching rehearsals
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or watching the run after my scenes were done, and also very distinct memories of standing backstage in the dark at the end of the play.
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It's quite a sad ending to the play.
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And one of the actresses, the adult actresses, with her hands on my shoulders, when the gunshot goes off at the end of the play,
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and she would squeeze my shoulders.
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And I always sort of thought, I'm not sad.
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I was a nine -year -old kid.
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I was so happy to be there.
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At some point, my dad explained to me, I think she's not trying to comfort you.
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I think she's trying to get comfort herself.
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And I remember running out for my curtain call.
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I was the first one to run out to take my bow after this terribly heartbreaking ending to the play.
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And I remember as the lights came up, seeing the faces of the audience members sort of light up with relief at seeing this,
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you know, nine -year -old boy running out, all happy, carefree after this sad ending.
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And that was when it struck me of the immediate effect
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that theater and - And the crackle of energy and how it can change.
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Exactly, and the in -person stuff, because I've got, you know, film stuff was all to come later.
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I loved films, but doing it all came later.
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But that in -person immediate impact was quite intoxicating for a nine -year -old kid.
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Yeah, and do you, I mean, because that's the extraordinary thing, for anyone to experience that, but at such a formative age.
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Yeah.
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Did you miss any school?
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Yeah, I got to miss, I did, I was homeschooled for three months while I did a production that had student matinees on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
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Right.
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So I got to stay at home.
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And my dad homeschooled me.
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And do you ever think about what that experience, how that sort of maybe shifted or enhanced or compounded your experience as an adult?
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I think it was...
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Even in life?
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Yeah, well, it was the juxtaposition between that and school, because I liked school and I like academics,
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but there was something that always didn't quite make sense about school.
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I didn't understand why, ultimately.
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It all felt like, well, because next year and because next year, and then you want to get into a good school.
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Yeah, you see a system that doesn't really make sense.
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Yeah, and it all sort of fades off in the distance.
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You don't see, well, I'm never going to be 20.
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That's not a real age.
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And with the theater, it was that immediate, no, no, you need to learn your lines, you need to go to rehearsals,
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because in three weeks there's gonna be a paying audience.
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Yes.
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And if you don't know your lines, you can imagine how that's gonna feel in three weeks.
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Yeah.
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Which is actually something that I try to get back to.
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um the sense that it it wasn't for some other reason it was just for
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that it wasn't to get the next part it wasn't to no it's to experience
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that process and to be there and live in it
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and to maximize i suppose the experience with the people around you is
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that what you mean yeah yeah yeah for its own sake to an extent
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which i think is a uh well i don't know you you tell me something
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that that you uh
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that you strive for again is it easy to get caught up in the like well maybe
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if i do a good job in this project i'll get another project that'll make me happy
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or that'll you know be bigger or better or more what I want to do?
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Or are you pretty good about just...
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Yeah, I mean, I think I've always been...
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I think it's really evolved.
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That's the software, when the software comes in.
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Good, back, all coming back, prepped.
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Because I think, yeah, I think the formative, because the three plays at the Royal Shakespeare Company, by the time I was 13...
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All Shakespeare?
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They weren't actually...
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Yes, the third one was Shakespeare, King John.
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I played Prince Arthur, a lesser known history play.
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Prince Arthur gets kidnapped, held hostage in a tower, and his adoring keeper is told to poke his eyes out with a hot poker.
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He manages to persuade him not to by begging and escapes,
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climbing out of a window through a wall and then falls off the wall and breaks his neck.
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Amazing.
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So I did that twice a day on a Thursday.
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Fantastic.
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Yeah, before puberty.
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Yeah, I mean, that's every 11 years.
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That's what you're pretending to do in your backyard or in your basement.
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Totally.
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And then you actually get to do it on stage.
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Totally.
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And I remember the rigorous, because it was Shakespeare, the academic process, the muscular response you had to have to a tutor who was like,
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you need to, you know, and I don't know if you remember the resonant voices of the actors.
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I just remember at a young age, there's an amazing actress called Helen McCrory.
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Sadly, she passed away in the UK.
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She's incredible.
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You would have seen her in amazing things.
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She's in Peaky Blinders, amongst many things.
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And her voice, like I just remember as an animal, you know, like the animal response.
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Well, you're a father, aren't you?
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know how when people say about when their baby cry, they can hear their baby out of 50.
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It was like that sort of, yeah, visceral response, knowing then that that was what was capable.
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And hearing someone telling a story every single day and honing, understanding that imperfection exists, but clarity and truth can still remain throughout it.
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Does that make sense?
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Yeah.
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Did you have an ear for the language?
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Like, you would listen to the play every night.
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Yeah, well this one in particular was an ill -fated production of Les Enfants du Paradis,
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directed by Simon Callow, who actually I recently heard on a podcast saying
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that he identified it as one of his biggest failures.
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When you say ill -fated, you mean like it didn't, it wasn't received well?
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On press night, it was the biggest production.
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You know Les Enfants du Paradis is a big, famous film actually as well.
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Well obviously not famous enough if I've never heard it.
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That's true, yeah exactly.
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It hasn't passed the corn sweat test.
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It can't be anything.
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And on press night, I said the Scottish play.
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I said Macbeth.
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We're not in the theater, so I can say it.
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I said Macbeth.
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So it was all your fault.
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And so I had this chaperone called Muriel.
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Did they take you outside?
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She told me it was me.
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Yeah.
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So at the age of eight, I thought I'd single -handedly brought down the Royal Shakespeare Company.
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That's amazing.
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And one of the wheels.
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And you've been trying to make up for it ever since.
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Ever since.
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Wow.
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I remember my.
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It was in All My Sons that I, they were teaching me about the Scottish play.
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And in doing that, I said Macbeth.
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And they sent you out the room.
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They sent me out of the theater.
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They sent me out the stage door into an alleyway.
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And you have to knock on the door.
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In Old Saladolphe.
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You've got to say a line, spin three times, spit, and then knock to get back in.
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Did you have to say a swear word?
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I think, I forget.
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It was still calling it a swear word.
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Yes, it was a swear word.
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Yes, yes.
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Did you have to say a swear word?
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Yes.
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Did you have to say a naughty word?
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Can I also just say, though, that with that in mind and about theater,
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is that the, I think there was so much on the screen that I found.
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I think the performances in Superman are so brilliant.
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And I think it is all down to detail
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and a very specific interpretation that I think obviously James Gunn has got this incredible brain that he can communicate to people.
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Would you like a coffee?
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Where's the dog?
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Dog?
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The dog, loser!
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You took the dog!
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That's righty.
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You get all of this.
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It was the secret, the long scenes that he gave you and Rachel.
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How long is that scene in the kitchen?
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10 minutes.
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Oh my, it was a, what a thrill.
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Yeah.
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And that scene and also between you two when the aliens are, and I forgive my terminology, but there is such a beautiful mise -en -scene.
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Yeah.
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With your, you know, in the window and you're having this, again, you return to this intimacy, but they play out like, like theater scenes.
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And we rehearsed them like theater.
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That was the moment when I realized that I had not done a deal with the devil in taking this big role,
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but I was actually sort of returning home.
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Yeah because we rehearsed those scenes like a play.
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And you can see that you're both listening and just so locked in.
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And the chemistry, therefore, I mean, my question is, what do you think chemistry is?
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Because people talk about it.
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Because I think you and Rachel have got it in spades.
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Well, I think the reason that it's referred to as chemistry is
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because there's this element of not knowing quite what it is.
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It's all chemical.
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Ultimately, I think it's do you believe that these people are into each other, whether it's a romantic...
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scene or you know uh uh Redford
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and Newman had great chemistry on screen yeah
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it's a question of are these people really in the room with each other yeah
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and it's little things that I think you work on a lot in theater
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that maybe you don't work on
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so much on film although great actors obviously make it happen
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and great directors bring it out of great actors um
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which is if I move a little closer to you does
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that affect you um and it's very easy on film to to not allow that to happen because of the constraints,
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even just the physical constraints of where the camera is and where your marks are and where the light is.
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And it's one of the reasons having a director who appreciates actors and their processes,
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whether they elevate those beyond everything else or whether they just realize that it's an important part, it's both more satisfying to work on,
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but I also think does show up on screen.
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I agree.
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Let's talk about the movie that's coming out, or that has come out, Wicked for Good, Part 2.
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Because there's some interesting parallels here too.
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Just as far as the vision, the storytelling...
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But then also the precision of which you've just talked of, of that thing of...
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Someone once said, a poet once said, only within a cage do you find freedom.
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And I feel like John Chu managed to somehow communicate to a whole cast and crew across a three,
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four, five year process to allow all of them to unlock
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or to be aware of the parameters they're given
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and especially for say Fiero in the film having seen the musical in the theatre I was
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so aware of the leanness and the small moments that had to then become,
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you had to sort of mine and use the parameters
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and sort of flourish within it and he was someone who I think probably like James,
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could see it all in his head and then just would know how to invite the right people,
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I think, whether or not they had something to say.
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Yeah.
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Because I feel like that's...
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It's interesting.
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You would think that those are antithetical.
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A director who sees it all laid out in front of them, James storyboards every shot of the movie.
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I'm sure, I mean, with a musical like that, you've got to have the choreography, the blocking, it's so complicated.
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You've got to have a very clear vision but then to invite people in, not to fit your vision,
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but to contribute in a real way, that's much harder.
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And I think to John and James' credit, it's a better director who can do both those things.
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Have a very clear vision and make space for great collaborators.
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It's genial, I think.
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And I met John Chew before obviously being officially invited in and we had a sort of,
457
what was supposed to be a half an hour hello, and it went on for about three hours.
458
He, frame by frame, talked me through the opening of the first film and it was about,
459
I mean it was two and a half years before the film came out
460
and about eight months before we even started shooting, I think, yeah, and it was exactly as he sat in front of me and he's like,
461
Johnny, I think it's, okay, so the thing about that you know about Elphaba and I think it's about nature and I think she's got this,
462
and I was, I can totally see without, it was just such a generous act and he was like, I've drawn this and anyway,
463
It was just, I knew at that point, again, maybe similar to when you met James,
464
that you, I just knew it was going to be something extraordinary.
465
And it's the ability to invite the right people in and actually to go, okay, Chris Scott, the choreographer,
466
yes, I need it to be this sort of number, but you go off and you do that because you can't manage,
467
you can't micromanage these huge movies like this.
468
I think it's, with a big musical production like
469
Wicked, I think it's harder for people to take for granted just how much goes into it.
470
But even then, unless you've spent...
471
I mean, a lot of people have never spent a single day on a film set.
472
You spend a single day and you realize how many moving parts there are.
473
I know.
474
And then to think back that this day got planned eight months ago.
475
Yeah.
476
Before we knew XYZ, you know, all these things have come up since.
477
And then to know that you've planned 90 or 100 or 120 of those days.
478
and that's all just to get the footage to make them like to tell the story yeah exactly um
479
it's it's uh it's amazing
480
so you also shot two films back to back at the same time so
481
when you say at the same time were you block shooting were you shooting
482
there was no block shooting it was all
483
so yes you'd start on a monday and a tuesday
484
and you'd be shooting dr dilliman's classroom in the first film
485
and then on the wednesday
486
it would be the preamble to for good the duet at the end of the second film
487
and then it would and then jeff would be in and we'd be shooting uh the wizard at the second,
488
you know, and it's testament to the extraordinary women playing those two roles
489
because also they were so locked in with John and I knew quite quickly in the best possible way that whatever,
490
it was almost like I was trusted and there's nothing better than that.
491
It's great especially when you're coming in playing a supporting role where you sort of know that your job is to...
492
Obviously you need to balance making your contribution and advocating for your role,
493
but mostly you don't want to fuck up the process that's already going on.
494
You just don't want to take, yeah, just bring energy and precision and do the work behind closed doors and then come up and surprise.
495
And I think, but that's also, you know, Cynthia and Ari and Jeff, Michelle and Marissa, and everyone applied themselves in such a way that,
496
and there's so much that happens before you even get on set.
497
You know, I was working with Eric Vitro on my singing voice and Chris Scott.
498
So you sing, you've sung before.
499
I have.
500
Forgive me if you've talked about this at length with the first movie, but I'm very curious.
501
So you sang, you were in Les Mis when you were high?
502
Yes, I was.
503
I played Gavroche.
504
Yes, and I was in the last five years and company.
505
So yeah, I've done musicals before.
506
So I've done eight shows a week.
507
So as an actor who I sang in my summer theater program and did my high school musicals.
508
What did you play?
509
uh i was in my senior musical i was seymour in little shop of horrors brilliant
510
so much fun yeah and then in the summer theater program
511
which was more there were
512
that was a very uh a more competitive situation um i uh i got to be in west side story
513
but i was a jet so i sang in the chorus
514
but you know if you get to sing um the over well the overture
515
and yeah yeah
516
so i was one of the first ones to come out in the overture
517
you whistle yeah i was one of the whistler i got to climb a That's the greatest show to make.
518
And then got to sing and dance in Cool and Officer Krupke and everything.
519
I can't wait until you do your musical again.
520
What are you going to do?
521
Well, see, this is the thing.
522
I don't know.
523
I don't know if...
524
I was never up with the real competitors.
525
I was always a tier below.
526
I am musical.
527
I appreciate music.
528
I can carry a tune quite well.
529
I never really trained my voice.
530
But how exciting that you're yet to have that.
531
But then again...
532
Well, so my question for you is,
533
for somebody who did sing as a young actor and took on big singing roles and had your singing roles,
534
you know, critically acclaimed, was this your first singing role in a film?
535
Yes.
536
So for this situation, what is your singing prep like?
537
Are you working with a singing teacher who you know?
538
Well, I feel like I've just been, you know, all of the things that are so lucky.
539
I mean, obviously, you know, you work as hard as you can and you get these amazing opportunities.
540
But the thing about being in a film like this is
541
that you get these extraordinary experts who just are there just to go, right, check in with me, and I can gift you technique and time.
542
We've actually trained with the same physical trainer, Paolo.
543
Oh, Paolo, I forgot we have Paolo in common.
544
Yes, we do, we do.
545
Love you, Paolo.
546
But that's an example, right?
547
So if you think about your...
548
Forgive me, I assume you didn't...
549
Your body wasn't...
550
Was it maybe you were born a superhero?
551
No, no, no. I was 190 pounds soaking wet before I...
552
Which sounds like a lot, but...
553
Soaking wet?
554
That just means if you're trying really hard.
555
Like if you wet your clothes, that's the most possible way.
556
That's gonna put on a lot of weight if you got wet clothes.
557
Yeah, so...
558
But I was what my high school...
559
One of my high school crushes very unaffectionately described as a string bean.
560
I was a string bean growing up.
561
Very tall and very skinny.
562
Some people are Popeye and some people olive oil.
563
Yeah, and I'm...
564
I was olive oil?
565
Well, you've graduated.
566
Yes.
567
Anyway, so I put on 40 pounds with Paolo.
568
Yeah, but that's incredible.
569
Oh, yeah.
570
But also, the process there, you know, if you apply that to vocal training, it's extraordinary.
571
For me, it's about confidence, I think, as well.
572
Yes.
573
And also with this, you know, your cast and, you know, with Cynthia and Ari.
574
Yeah, I mean, no joke.
575
And singing live on set while singing.
576
And, you know, it's those eight days of doing
577
Dancing Through Life were some of the most extraordinary and the toughest days I've had on a film set.
578
John Chu had a baby on the Monday.
579
We were doing, you know, the wheel.
580
And so we did one day without a director.
581
But, you know, these things, you have to train that hard so that there will be variables on the day.
582
You might not sleep.
583
Yeah.
584
You might have a cold.
585
The director might have a baby.
586
And so you train that hard.
587
It's so satisfying.
588
And it's so focusing, isn't it, as well?
589
Like, to be able to really commit for...
590
And to have such a good reason to put so much into it.
591
That was the thing with, I had always wanted to put on weight, and I would love to take singing lessons for six months,
592
but there's nothing, you can't say enough about having such a good reason to put that kind of work in.
593
Because when you're starting from, when you're not Cynthia Erivo or Ariana Grande, you feel like you might have a long way to go,
594
and the first couple months maybe you don't sound so good, or you're not putting on so much weight.
595
Trust the process.
596
Trusting the process and having those experts.
597
I was going to say something earlier as well, which is I think similar to Superman and Wicked is that don't rest on,
598
not you personally, but generally one shouldn't assume that just because, you know, you just said about Cynthia and Ari, both of them, like talent.
599
It's so easy with superhero films, I think, and the performances within them and the directors of those films
600
And also the performers of musicals to just go, God, they're just so talented.
601
It's a God -given gift.
602
Yeah, it's absolutely, yes, of course there's that, but there's years of honing craft
603
And of course anything that - And they still have to warm up in the morning and like - Totally.
604
Yeah.
605
And you know, Ari changed her whole tone and her voice and Cynthia was training so that she could deliver that every single take
606
And of course if it looks like it's something that you were born to do then you've done the work so well.
607
Well part of it is making it look easy.
608
Easy, yeah.
609
It's incredible when you spend how many years, it must have been two years that you stepped into Superman's costume.
610
And how long it took to make from being cast to it being released into the world.
611
Oh, two years, yeah.
612
Two years.
613
There was such a resonance to the film.
614
There's one thing about creating this extraordinary movie that gets people into the cinemas, because it was a really exciting time, wasn't it?
615
Because you were doing your press tour, and Jurassic Press Tour was happening, Yeah, you were doing Jurassic Tour.
616
Fantastic Four.
617
And it's incredible when there's this alignment, and there's something about the values of Superman,
618
and this version of Superman that felt so alive and connected to the audience.
619
Get out of here! Did you feel that?
620
There's so many different measures of that.
621
Yeah.
622
There's like, you get how do the cast and crew feel about the film, how does the director feel about the film,
623
the first people who start to, you know, the publicists who get to watch it,
624
the agents and managers who get to watch it ahead of the release,
625
the press people who start asking you questions a month before the film is released
626
and they start saying like I've seen the movie
627
and you're like oh my gosh yeah what did you think yeah
628
and then there's this slow build to a tidal wave
629
but even the tidal wave is you've got sort of the screenings
630
that you do for
631
that are often you know diehard fans people who really want to love it
632
or have extremely high expectations and are easy to disappoint
633
and then you have the critical reception and people who are writing about it
634
and who want to talk about the zeitgeist
635
and how it fits into the the especially with films
636
that have a legacy like jurassic park
637
or superman it's it's sort of easy to get pulled in one direction
638
and then you have the box office
639
which is at very least just a measure of how many people buy tickets
640
or how many people buy multiple tickets yeah yeah you'll see the movie
641
so it's sort of you can you can tell a bunch
642
of different stories depending on what you focus on it's a lot of noise isn't it yeah Yeah.
643
For you, as in, because there's only so much you have control over,
644
which we've talked about the process and the making of it and the enjoying the...
645
The thing that I learned for sure, for definite, is that I leave my feeling of, my sense of control at rap.
646
When I leave set, I have done my work.
647
That is the, I guess to a certain extent, promoting the film is part of your work as well.
648
But as far as the film itself goes and whether people like the film, people can love the press tour and not love the film.
649
People like the film.
650
My contribution happened a year ago when I was on set.
651
And so the only way I can really measure my success as an actor is by the people who I'm...
652
It's that thing of running out for my curtain call and seeing the audience's face light up.
653
That's the feedback that tells you whether you're on track or not.
654
So if my scene partner gets what they need from me on the day.
655
And if James says, or if my director says, yep, that was good, we've got it.
656
And then sometimes even more importantly than that, if the crew is happy to see me.
657
If I'm not called for a few days and I show up on my next day and they're like, oh, we missed you.
658
It's not quite the same when you're not here.
659
It'd be awful if you basically imagine you got to sit and everyone was like, oh.
660
Yeah, but it does happen, crazily.
661
But I like to put my energy there.
662
And I put a lot of energy there.
663
I work very hard to especially through on screen well good I mean I don't pretend to know how
664
that happens because there is so much that happens between your performance
665
and showing up on screen and like only one of them is the edit
666
which is literally cutting the timing or cutting lines
667
or even things like color correction
668
and sound design I mean one of the things I love about a musical
669
and I love about the about Wicked which is a musical
670
that I listened to first and then saw on stage
671
and a film adaptation is like the place where it can all go off the rails in my opinion
672
and to see such a beautiful elevated like a next step in the legacy of this great musical
673
you know starting from the book um is
674
so satisfying mainly for me because I think musicals are in some ways the ultimate film expression.
675
I've got another thing we've got in common.
676
So you're you used to create videos with your best mate.
677
Yeah.
678
And I am so lucky because I am just
679
that little bit older than you that we didn't have you I don't know because we've got so many videos.
680
I'm not that I'm saying that I think because our videos would have been.
681
No I'm very proud of those videos.
682
No no you should be.
683
I'm not ashamed about them.
684
You should be.
685
My videos that I made with my friend were wild.
686
And we spent hours and hours making films in the garden and editing, you know, and I'd absolutely hyper -focus and would go,
687
you know, should be doing 99 other things,
688
but I'd come out with a video aged 13 about a guy who's lost his wife and decided to go.
689
You're doing heavy stuff there.
690
I was doing light sketch comedy.
691
Yeah, I know, exactly.
692
But it's also what I found very clear to me is I think you've probably got really good long -standing friendships.
693
Oh, yeah, yeah.
694
And have been clearly, been creatively collaborating with people that you know and trust in a very small scale,
695
in a very, like, I feel like you will probably one day write and direct.
696
Yeah, probably, when I find the right thing to take up that much time, because it is a much bigger commitment to be an actor.
697
But yeah, do you have any interest in writing and directing?
698
I mean, any interest?
699
Do you have, like, do you feel that that is
700
in your future imminently or something
701
that might - I'm in reverence to every person on set and every moment of the process of making a film.
702
And I just think, you know, well, actors come on set for 15 % of the whole process.
703
Do I love being on set?
704
Yes, 100%.
705
And I love the working singularly on one project.
706
And so it would be a great honor to be working with something from the original concept idea all the way through.
707
Is this your humble way of saying yes?
708
I'm just saying.
709
I'm just saying.
710
Tell me about Jurassic.
711
Was Jurassic sort of a...
712
I feel like I might have seen or read something that you were very excited about that.
713
Was that something of like a dream to get to...
714
Well, that's probably where we have a real crossover with playing Superman.
715
I don't know actually.
716
Okay.
717
Because I'm on record as like, if I was a Jedi...
718
Yeah.
719
That would be the thing.
720
That's what I...
721
That was my growing up thing.
722
I was not a Superman guy growing up.
723
Okay.
724
Which is not to say I didn't have the greatest time ever making the movie
725
and getting to wear the cape and everything.
726
But Jurassic, you were like dinosaurs.
727
Yeah, I mean, of course.
728
It was just an absolute, yeah.
729
I mean, it's amazing, isn't it, to, when we were saying about, you know, when you're at school and you think,
730
I'm not going to turn 20.
731
Like, that's just not going to happen.
732
And there's such a sort of like an immediacy, almost solipsism to like being young and being like, Like it's never, I'm probably never gonna,
733
in fact, I only realized about 10 years ago that my dad also shared with me,
734
I just sort of felt like I probably wasn't gonna grow, I was never gonna make, it wasn't sort of Peter Pan.
735
I just couldn't, I can't look ahead.
736
Like this sort of like, I'm gonna die young thing or just you can't?
737
Like maybe kind of.
738
Because my grandfather and my father had that too.
739
They were like, I probably won't live another 10 years.
740
It's a very sort of, as it, because you know, me and my dad sort of really connected over that, realizing that we both have,
741
you know, I don't know what I'm trying to say.
742
I think I never really thought, I always was just, I just felt like going from,
743
you know, it was a jobbing actor in my twenties and there was a lot of rejection.
744
You look back now, this is what I'm getting at.
745
This is what I'm getting at.
746
Is that I saw
747
Wicked For Good in London with my family and I saw
748
Jurassic Park, Jurassic World Rebirth and I was sat there watching it.
749
And in these moments, I now can look back and get incredibly emotional
750
because I never did look forward in that way
751
and I never really did see myself in those roles for
752
so many reasons as we all do and but
753
when you know the idea of being invited into Jurassic
754
and then you go and then you're like working with Gareth Edwards
755
and Mahershala and Rupert and obviously Scarlett who I've grown up watching her films
756
and everyone is united in this complete feverish moment of going to the cinema to see
757
that first movie and to see the whole franchise grow and it was like amazing to be sharing such a united
758
passion that was giddying and...
759
In some ways it's like doing a great Shakespeare play.
760
It's like a play that has been done before by great actors and it has this legacy.
761
Yes, that's true.
762
More so with Superman.
763
I did Richard II at the beginning of the year
764
and I remember there was one night where three previous Richard II's came.
765
Oh, amazing.
766
You had the Spider -Man.
767
Ray Fiennes.
768
Yeah, literally, yes.
769
And yeah, with Superman, have you been in contact with...
770
I got to write Tyler Hoechlin who played him on the TV show
771
that just ended and and I exchanged letters with Henry Cavill.
772
Who was yours?
773
Don't let me mess this up.
774
I don't think I've met any of them.
775
Tom Welling.
776
Tom Welling was mine.
777
I watched Smallville growing up.
778
Yeah, yeah, me too.
779
Yeah.
780
Oh, so one thing we have in common, which is funny, is we both got to, the thing that made me emotional,
781
because I love a film score, and getting to be in a film that has an orchestral score is kind of a rarity these days.
782
Yeah, yeah.
783
But we both.. got to have John Williams music at our back
784
and that for me that was the moment when I got emotional
785
because that's the music was so much when I was growing up watching
786
Star Wars and watching
787
Jurassic Park and Indiana Jones and everything realizing that all the music was this one guy
788
that was the sort of thing where I was like well
789
if I could ever be in a movie with some John Williams music
790
and that I definitely didn't think would happen and that's where I get that's where that is our sweet spot in watching
791
Superman when the trailer came out and that music was And also the theme we use so well in your film.
792
Yeah.
793
Towards the end it comes like every sort of 92 seconds.
794
In different keys and it's so gratifying.
795
Yeah.
796
But yeah, what a time to be alive.
797
Let me ask you this.
798
Sexiest man alive.
799
Jonathan Bailey, sexiest man alive.
800
It was so lovely to chat.
801
Where do you go from here?
802
Wait, wait.
803
Sexiest man alive, 2026.
804
How do you do it?
805
How dare you?
806
That is not software, not hardware.
807
OK.
808
Back tomorrow for part two?
809
Yeah!
810
Maybe we'll just sit down in another ten.
811
Should we just check up on each other every ten years?
812
That's a good idea.
813
That would be a real privilege.
814
You know, at some point, there's no alternative.
815
You can't actually be friends with all the lovely people there are in the industry and in the world.
816
You just have some people...
817
I'll be your friend.
818
Well, great.
819
Do you have time for me?
820
I feel like you've got...
821
Yeah, I do, actually.
822
Oh, really?
823
Yeah, yeah.
824
Well, I haven't got time for you.
825
I've got a two -year -old at home.
826
Blimey, yeah.
827
I'll talk to you in ten years.
828
Okay, great.
829
So how do you top Sexiest Man Alive?
830
No, no, I'm kidding.
831
The ugliest.
832
Good, should we kiss or something?
833
Just make out.
834
What a pleasure.
835
Oh, a real pleasure.
836
It really got going as well.
837
Yeah.
838
Talk about that exponential curve.
839
Yeah, yeah.
840
Thank you.
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אוצר מילים והערות הגייה לשיעור הזה
שיעור הדיבור הזה ברמה B2 מבוסס על הסרטון “Jonathan Bailey & David Corenswet”. בסרטון הזה יש 840 משפטים ו-8509 מילים לתרגול Shadowing. הדיבור נמשך 42:09. הדובר מדבר מהר, כ-202 מילים בדקה, אז צפו לצלילים מחוברים ומקוצרים. 86% מהמילים נמצאות בין 3,000 המילים הנפוצות ביותר באנגלית; כדאי ללמוד את השאר לפני שמתחילים.
אוצר מילים מרכזי בסרטון הזה
15 המילים המתקדמות ביותר בסרטון, עם ההגייה והמשמעות שלהן:
| מילה | הגייה | משמעות |
|---|---|---|
| wick שם עצם | /ˈwɪk/ | פְּתִילָה |
| olive שם עצם | /ˈɑ.lɪv/ | זַיִת |
| chuckle פועל | /ˈt͡ʃʌkəl/ | גִּחֵךְ |
| exponential שם תואר | /ˌɛk.spəˈnɛn.t͡ʃəl/ | מעריכי, אקספוננציאלי |
| hone פועל | /hoʊn/ | לַחֲרוֹץ |
| levitate פועל | /ˈlɛvɪteɪt/ | רִחֵף |
| rehearse פועל | /ɹɪˈhɝs/ | חזרה |
| soak פועל | /soʊk/ | הִשְׁרָה |
| rehearsal שם עצם | /ɹɪˈhɝsl̩/ | חֲזָרָה, תִּרְגּוּל |
| superhero שם עצם | /ˈs(j)upɚhɪɹoʊ/ | גִבּוֹר עָל |
| curtain שם עצם | /ˈkɜɹt(ə)n/ | וִילוֹן |
| bean שם עצם | /ˈbi(ː)n/ | שְׁעוּעִית |
| privilege שם עצם | /ˈpɹɪv.(ɪ.)lɪd͡ʒ/ | פְּרִיבִילֶגְיָה, זְכוּת יֶתֶר |
| frustrate פועל | /ˈfɹʌsˌtɹeɪt/ | תִּסְכֵּל |
| neighbour שם עצם | /ˈneɪbɚ/ | שָׁכֵן, שְׁכֵנָה |
Phrasal verbs שתשמעו
| מילה | הגייה | משמעות |
|---|---|---|
| grow up פועל | גָּדַל | |
| come out פועל | /ˌkʌm ˈaʊt/ | יָצָא |
| come back פועל | שָׁב |
משפטים שכדאי לחזור עליהם
משפטים קצרים ושלמים מהסרטון שאפשר להשתמש בהם בשיחה יומיומית:
- Should we start the conversation?
- Do you mean make choices or do you?
- That's what we do as humans, isn't it?
- What am I waiting for?
- Because we've got things in common, haven't we?
דקדוק בסרטון הזה
המבנים שהדובר משתמש בהם הכי הרבה, עם המילים המדויקות מהסרטון:
| מבנה | בסרטון |
|---|---|
| הווה מושלם (Present perfect) have/has + past participle — פעולה שקרתה בעבר ועדיין יש לה חשיבות או השפעה עכשיו | haven't worked · I've been told · have I done |
| סביל (Passive voice) be + past participle — הדגש הוא על מה שקורה, לא על מי שעושה את הפעולה | were invited · are hurt · aren't captured |
| משפטי זיקה (Relative clauses) who / which + clause — מידע נוסף על אדם או דבר | people who think · vulnerable, which means · romance, which is |
הגייה ששווה לשים לב אליה
הדובר משתמש ב-203 קיצורים וצורות מקוצרות, כמו you're, don't, I'm. אמרו אותם בצורה הקצרה, כפי שאתם שומעים אותם.
- הצלילים של “sh” ו-“zh”: friction /ˈfɹɪkʃən/, gosh /ɡɑːʃ/, precision /pɹɪˈsɪʒ.ən/, expectation /ˌɛk.spɛkˈteɪ.ʃən/, adaptation /ˌæd.æpˈteɪ.ʃən/
- מילים ארוכות — שימו לב להטעמה: exponential /ˌɛk.spəˈnɛn.t͡ʃəl/, parameter /pəˈɹæm.ə.tɚ/, superhero /ˈs(j)upɚhɪɹoʊ/, competitor /kəmˈpɛt.ɪ.tɚ/, curiosity /ˌkjʊɹ.iˈɑ.sə.ti/
צלילים שדוברי עברית מתקשים בהם:
- /w/ — שפתיים מעוגלות, לא /v/: wick /ˈwɪk/, sequel /ˈsiːkwəl/, workplace /ˈwɝkˌpleɪs/, sweat /swɛt/, workshop /ˈwɝk.ʃɑp/
- /æ/ — פתוח יותר מה-“אֶ” העברית, לא כמו “a” ב-“cup”: superman /ˈsupɚmæn/, satisfy /ˈsætɪsfaɪ/, hamstring /ˈhæmstɹɪŋ/, parameter /pəˈɹæm.ə.tɚ/, backyard /bækˈjɑːd/
- /r/ — הלשון לא נוגעת בשום מקום, לא ה-“ר” הגרונית: friction /ˈfɹɪkʃən/, constraint /kənˈstɹeɪnt/, hamstring /ˈhæmstɹɪŋ/, overture /ˈoʊvəɹt͡ʃəɹ/, rehearse /ɹɪˈhɝs/
איך לתרגל עם הסרטון הזה
- הקשיבו לכל הסרטון פעם אחת בלי לדבר, ורשמו את המילים שאתם לא מכירים.
- התחילו במהירות 0.75×, תרגלו Shadowing משפט אחר משפט, וחזרו למהירות רגילה כשזה מרגיש קל.
- הקליטו את עצמכם והשוו למקור, תוך תשומת לב למילים כמו wick, olive, chuckle.
מהי טכניקת השאדואינג?
שאדואינג היא טכניקת למידת שפה מבוססת מדע שפותחה במקור להכשרת מתורגמנים מקצועיים ופופולרית על ידי הפוליגלוט ד"ר אלכסנדר ארגואלס. השיטה פשוטה אך עוצמתית: אתה מקשיב לאודיו באנגלית ילידית וחוזר עליו בקול רם מיד — כמו צל העוקב אחרי הדובר עם עיכוב של 1–2 שניות בלבד. בניגוד להאזנה פסיבית או תרגילי דקדוק, שאדואינג מכריח את המוח והשרירים בפה לעבד ולשחזר דפוסי דיבור אמיתיים בו זמנית. מחקרים מראים שזה משפר משמעותית את דיוק ההגייה, האינטונציה, הקצב, הדיבור המחובר, הבנת השמיעה ושטף הדיבור — מה שהופך אותו לאחת השיטות היעילות ביותר להכנה לIELTS Speaking ולתקשורת באנגלית בעולם האמיתי.