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Bob Bowman is a director of swimming and diving and head men's coach at the University of Texas here in Austin.

He also coached Michael Phelps to 23

Olympic gold medals

and is the first coach in Division I men's swimming history to win back -to -back national championships at two different programs.

Bob, you've written a master class in winning

and I'm really excited about the conversation

but I wanted to ground in your one simple rule that you've used for the years which is do your work.

Thanks Kevin for having me.

One of the things that I think is most important in any endeavor is showing up day in day out consistently.

That is what really gets you where you want to go.

If you wait on motivation or you rely on motivation it's not going to do it for you.

I was trying to get back in shape

or in a training camp in Colorado Springs and

so we had great weight room and my assistant coach was with me logan

and we had been working out every day in the morning one day i was kind of tired

and i was like you know i think maybe tomorrow i'm going to take off i don't feel too good

and he's like you know what i'm just going to do my work

so what do you do when you're feeling great

and the world is your oyster do your work what do you do

when you don't have any motivation you're lost you don't know anything about what to do do your work

It'd be great to have you tell a little bit about your story.

And I know you started with age group swimmers.

In 1997, I was in Baltimore and at the North Baltimore Aquatic Club, the best club in America at the time.

We changed around the groups, and there was an 11 -year -old kid that was assigned to my group,

which was largely 13, 14, 15 -year -olds.

And his name was Michael Phelps.

And they put him in there because he couldn't be challenged with his age.

He needed something far greater than that.

And that really started this very unique journey.

Michael, I became the head men's coach in Ann Arbor, learned quite a bit, had a tremendous training group there,

really helped Michael prepare for Beijing in 2008 where he had his peak performance.

An opportunity came up for me to go to Arizona State University.

I took it.

At the time, the team had not scored a point at NCAAs for 10 years, the national championships.

But I wanted a project, and I wanted something that would challenge me after Michael was done.

We had this amazing journey from really the true basement to winning an NCAA championship in 2024 at ASU.

And then about the time that we were about to win the championship, I got the call from Texas.

And, you know, you don't say no to Texas.

I mean, it's an absolutely incredible career if you think about what you've done with Michael Phelps.

What you've done at Arizona State, what you've done at Texas is really impressive.

But how did you start?

How did you define winning and take us through that journey?

When I think about winning, I was trying to come up with one word.

It's probably improvement, right?

That is my job, is to get everybody

that I have influence over every day to make incremental improvement as much as possible every day.

And if you're doing that over time,

you're going to get from 45th place at NCAAs to number one and it's really a process -driven system, right?

So what I do is focus on process and leave outcomes out there because they kind of depend on other people.

We focus on the things we control, the process of how we practice, the attitude we bring to our work.

If the people buy into that and live the right way, they're going to win.

The story that I love to tell, and I told my Texas team my first day on the

job those kids at asu who had just won a national championship they had lived like champions for three

or four years before they got the trophy

you won't ever really in around here hear us talking about winning a championship

but you'll hear a lot of talking about doing what it takes to become a champion being a champion

so at the end of the day if you become the right things

and you follow the right process the winning will occur how

do you bridge a gap from an individual sport to bringing

that team together

and getting the most out of right everyone on your team

they want to be part of something bigger than themselves at texas

they're part of an amazing legacy probably the greatest legacy in nc2a sports

if you look at the level you know we've won 17 national championships in the last 50 years

so how do you think about evolving your roster getting the right people to buy into what you're trying to accomplish

it's all about people at the end at the end of the day

it's about having the right people in the right positions

and you know if you have the wrong people there they got to go

so over a period of time you start defining what you need to carry out the mission

which in this case is compete at at the top level.

what events you want to cover, what are the qualities of the people that you want to bring in.

And then you decide if the people you have here can do that or not.

And if they can't, they need to find a new place to be.

And then you bring in the people that can do it.

And what about those times when you have the roster, but you're deciding who's going to swim in an individual meet?

Just making those tough decisions.

We have times in swimming, we have practice performances, and you kind of gauge all those and kind of factor those in.

So I saw this video clip of Dr. Ellen Langer.

She's a Harvard psychologist.

Very good.

What she encouraged people to do is instead of stressing so much about making the right decision,

go ahead and make it and then make your decision right.

And once I started living that way, things got a lot better.

Because you really don't know all the possibilities and you certainly can't control them.

So I use the information I have and then kind of go with my gut and just make the call.

Of course, coaching talent gives you a leg up.

What about some critics that might say you got lucky because you had Michael Phelps?

Clearly, I did get lucky having Mike Phelps.

I don't think there's any question about that.

And they were like, Boatman can't coach.

The janitor could coach Michael Phelps to those medals.

And I was like, yeah, but could he coach his mother?

It wasn't just Michael.

I had to work on Debbie.

I had to work on a lot of people around there.

So there's a lot that goes into it.

Michael, there's nothing he wouldn't do to reach his goals within the rules in terms of effort or attitude,

and that's what separated him.

He went for six years without missing a day, 365 days, because we were convinced that if we did that,

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every year we'd pick up 52 days on all the people that took every Sunday off.

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There are a lot of things that we taught Michael

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that had nothing to do with how long his arms were, his wingspan.

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There must be days where he didn't want to swim.

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As a coach, how did you deal with it?

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What I observed from these great performers like Leon and Michael, Allison Schmitz, some people like one of gold medals,

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they're not amazing in practice every day, but they have a high average level most days.

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So on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is terrible and 10 is as good as you can be,

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they're like an 8 most days, 7 or 8 all the time.

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And every now and then there's a 3, but there's maybe 1.

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and every now and there there's a 10.

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15 % is better than zero.

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We equated it to money in the bank.

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Some days you put a big deposit in the bank.

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Some days it's a couple pennies but you're doing something every day

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and that's what they have to learn is that your effort

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and your attitude are the two things that you control all the time.

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So when you don't feel like doing something don't let that be a limiting factor.

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Just do it anyway.

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Do the best you can.

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There's a famous story about you breaking michael phelps's goggles in practice

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and that that translated into olympic we had gone to australia in 2003

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and he was swimming in some international meeting they just had their stuff on the floor

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and that was okay except for they had like their goggles

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and their caps just kind of strewn all over the deck in this area

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and i saw michael's goggles

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and i just stepped on him he swam a race in the preliminaries

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and um swam fairly well and he came back and he was like I don't know what happened, but my goggles filled up with water.

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I was like, well, you did a really good job.

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You counted your strokes.

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There was another meet where he went to swim a backstroke race in the finals,

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and he reaches up to pull his goggles down, and they aren't there.

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And he looks over at me like, no goggles.

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And I was just like, swim.

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He learned to deal with some adversity, right?

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And learned that he was capable of meeting the challenge so

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when he dove in and Beijing in the 200 fly final

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which is a very important race for him I noticed

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that he just didn't look right he actually broke the world record

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which is an amazing thing

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but right after the race you can see he kind of tears his goggles off his face

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and chucks them up on the deck but what he told me after was

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when his goggles filled up in the first 50 meters he just reverted to what we do in training

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and as counting your strokes my first thought is like, who in the world under this kind of pressure can even do that?

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But that's where the talent and the preparation come in.

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So maybe a little bit about overcoming adversity.

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What separates people that are able to do that versus those that are not?

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No one has a straight line to success.

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Everybody who has done anything meaningful will have failed many, many times.

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So I encourage people to embrace failure.

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If you're going to fail, fail big.

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That means you're trying, right? go for it if you have things that come in

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that you didn't plan for I know Michael before 2008 in the fall of 2007 he had been swimming

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amazingly the entire year where university of michigan where he had swum

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and brilliantly swam on i guess it was saturday afternoon

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and then i got a call on sunday afternoon

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that he had walked out to his car and slipped on the ice

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and broke his wrist this is like eight months before the olympics

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and you know i went over to his place

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and he was distraught he was like i just gave away three gold medals

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I was like I don't think he gave away anything

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but I was like let's number one figure out what we're going to do

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so we went to hand specials

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that day it's like what time you're scheduling tomorrow let's go

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and they scheduled surgery the next day he was able to come out of

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that obviously do fine have the greatest performance in history at the big meet

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but when you have something like that try to take the emotion out of it

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and focus on what you can do

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and control the controllables one of the things

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we talked about is an accountable plan how do you take a very big goal

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and break it down into the small steps you need to run

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or play out to get to the goal number one i want to have a very long -term goal

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that is not really very specific but it has an emotional component to it

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that kind of drives this whole process i call it a dream goal right

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and you know for swimmers it's easy

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it's like hey what's your dream in swimming they'll be like to swim in the olympics right

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it's out there we're going to start working back

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and we're going to say well

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when are we going to do the olympics you have dates okay 2028

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or whatever the it's going to be then we start working backwards to where we are and

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if you know you want to make the u .s olympic team

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i can say you're going to have to swim this time at the usa trials

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This is very objective.

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So we kind of place everything on time.

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This is what Michael and I always did.

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We worked off of times.

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So if we're going to swim this time in 2028 in the summer,

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then in 2027, you're going to have to be within five tenths of that time.

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And in 2026, you want to be within a second and a half of that time.

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So that's how you kind of keep on track.

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And then as we work back, we get to the very most important goal, which I call the immediate goals.

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What am I going to do right now?

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The most important, any decision that any of us are going to make

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It's what are we going to do in the present moment that's going to carry us through these other goals.

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So writing on the whiteboard the next big meet and the countdown until then, why do you do that?

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Why do you make it so visible?

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We just get closer to it each day, and I just want them to know that time is moving.

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When I went to Michigan, I put up a timer that was a countdown clock to the 2008 Olympic Games.

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I did it four years before so

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when it started it said how many days hours seconds

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and it was running all the time and I was like

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and one of my assistants said why don't you put that up there I was like

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you're gonna think that

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that thing ran out in no time we're gonna look up there one day

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and it's gonna be 10 days how do you think about breaking down performance in a meet

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and in a race there are a couple things we're very fortunate now

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that we have what's called a race analysis so we can get all sorts of data on every race.

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We can get their times.

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We call them split times.

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We can get their times to 15 meters, to 25 meters.

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You know, we can see what their stroke rate was on each of these increments.

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We can see what their stroke length was on each of these increments.

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And is that in the, that's inside or they're wearing something?

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We can do that off of a video.

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Now we have AI that'll take the video and just spit it right out, which is crazy.

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So you can get their turn time

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so that's one piece of it the other piece is we

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use video to actually see what it visually looks like

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so i could say well you went into this turn you need one less stroke

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or you shouldn't breathe going into this wall the other part is what i do

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when i'm on deck is i'm trying to be hyper aware of what the swimmers are like before

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they go to the race how do they look in their

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routine are they in a routine do they look like they're

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in the right mindset how are they behind the blocks like i i love

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when we go to some of these big meets like the olympic trials

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i will actually for a majority of the races i won't go out into the venue

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and watch them i'll watch them in a huge screen in the warm -up pool

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because you can see everything but my favorite thing is to show them

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when they walk out of the ready room to go to the blocks to swim

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i can look in their face

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and figure out how they're going to swim that's one of my favorite games like he's ready see

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if it matches up or not customize systems rituals habits yes all the things

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that you do to sort of build a process to get good how do you build these programs

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that your swimmers actually want to do like you said no matter what day

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it is sometimes they just have to do it

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um we try to sell them on why i think

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that's the key element for anything i tell someone who comes into my program,

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you are welcome to ask me why we're going to do anything we do here, and I should have an answer.

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Now, I will tell you that one out of every 50 times,

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the answer is going to be I've been doing this for 40 years and I think it might work.

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We do experiment.

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But most of the time, I should have an answer to why we're doing this particular exercise at this time in this way.

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And I think once they understand that and they kind of buy into the why, then it's easy to get them to do it.

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Yeah.

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One of the things you said about mastery is that being coachable is like the most important attribute.

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Can you tell early on how coachable folks are?

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You can because it's how much they pay attention, how invested they are in what we're doing.

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And I've had some people at this level that I think aren't coachable enough.

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The best part about a college team is I get to go pick people who come.

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And that's one of the first ones we look like.

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Are you coachable?

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Do you make people around

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you better how do you create a world where your athletes want feedback okay

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you know they want real -time feedback they want consistent feedback

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because a lot of times you know in the professional world

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it's not something people are looking forward to in our sport

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or just any sport the people that do it at a high level

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and we're doing it at probably the highest level of our team they want the feedback

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because they know that's how they get better when i give them

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feedback they know I'm doing it to help them get better

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and I also try to present it in a way

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so it's not hypercritical I'm trying to say

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if you want to swim this time in the 200 breaststroke

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you're gonna have to split this you're gonna have to take this many strokes

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and you're taking ten right now and it's got to be eight

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so you decide you know but you need to know

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that you're not going to get where you want to go

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unless you make these changes how do you work with individuals within a different team different personalities

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and dynamics sort of bringing them all together as we know everyone is different everyone learns differently

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i try to find out number one um how people process

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information the best some people are i'm an auditory learner

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if i hear it i really remember it i tell coaches i have a toolbox

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of things that i use for coaching

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when i first started the only tool in my box was a hammer so everything look like a nail, right?

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You do this.

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You will do this, right?

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But now I have a lot of tools.

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I have empathy.

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I have logic.

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I have pats on the back.

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I have, I can still give them a little kick in the rear end if they need it.

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But I think that's the key to how you learn how

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to motivate a big group of diverse people is you get

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in the weeds on what each individual person needs to be motivated.

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There are a couple of people in my group that the only thing that gets them to change is the sledgehammer.

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Like, are you going to do this or not?

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So I think that's what you learn over time is how to approach them like that.

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And I think that at the competitions, it's the same thing too.

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We talk a lot about process and outcome.

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If you have outcome -based goals or you have outcome -based thoughts like winning a gold medal, what happens at the end of this race?

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What if i don't do this time that's an outcome -based goal right i want to win

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when you have those kind of thoughts your physiological activation is like you received a threat

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you start to get you know palms get clammy heart rate goes up your breathing rate increases

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if you have process -based thoughts i want to make sure

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i nail my first turn i want to have a 1 .1 tempo on the first 50

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your activation state goes down

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you you also talked about um team phelps like the broader system of coaches what were all those different roles

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and how does it all come together it's kind of amazing i told somebody one time

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that you know when this whole thing started with michael it was me his mother

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and michael there was three people by the time we ended it was like an agent doctors physical therapists,

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lawyers, all kind of things, right?

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We had a whole army of people.

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Well, if you're a biomechanist, they think that a swimmer is like a stick figure, right?

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With angles and this and that.

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If you go to a physiologist, they just think it's a pair of heart and lungs.

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Psychologists think it's only the brain.

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My job is to take the best from all of those and make sure that none of those is the whole pie.

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They're pieces of the pie.

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Is there something about getting the feedback as fast as you can?

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And how do you think about that?

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I think you want to have feedback as soon as you can because then it's fresh in their mind,

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the situation is, right, or the motivation to change.

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So I have to make sure, and my coaches, one of the things we work on is we distill the information to a soundbite

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and then try to distill it more.

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So I might just say, fingertips towards the bottom.

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I would say one thing.

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Or I would say right elbow up or take two more kicks off the wall.

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But that's all they get so they'll get enough

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that they're it's kind of real time they can understand it I can watch it

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and see if they do it and then the next time they come around

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and say hey that was a lot better or no needs work you keep working it

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For leaders who look at you and say, I want to do exactly what Bob did.

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I want to create a system.

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I want to have a feedback culture.

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I want to have a plan, a customized plan with all the systems.

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They wake up tomorrow and say they want to do it.

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Where do they start?

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You know where I would start?

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Well, I would find somebody in your field who is doing it and learn how they do it.

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Don't try to put your spin on it yet learn exactly how they are doing it studied music and

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when you talk to see people perform in music

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they always say studied with da da da da da da da

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so I wanted these coaches I was working with I wanted to go study with the masters

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and learn their way of doing it you just have to show up

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and give yourself a chance to be great I love it all right thank you so much thank you Thank you.

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Лексика и советы по произношению к этому уроку

Этот урок разговорной практики построен на видео «Bob Bowman on Winning: Lessons from Coaching Michael Phelps». В этом видео 334 предложений и 4095 слов для шедоуинга. Речь длится 21:04. Говорящий говорит быстро, около 194 слов в минуту, поэтому звуки часто сливаются и сокращаются. 87% слов входят в 3000 самых частых слов английского языка, поэтому лексика простая.

Ключевая лексика этого видео

15 слов из видео, которые стоит выучить, с произношением и значением:

Слово	Произношение	Значение
swim глагол	/swɪm/	пла́вать, плыть
feedback существительное	/ˈfiːdˌbæk/	о́тзыв, о́тклик
medal существительное	/ˈmɛdəl/	меда́ль
outcome существительное	/ˈaʊtkʌm/	исход
motivation существительное	/ˈmoʊ.tə.veɪ.ʃən/	мотива́ция
deck существительное	/ˈdɛk/	насти́л
meter существительное	/ˈmitəɹ/	счётчик, измери́тель
encourage глагол	/ɪnˈkʌɹ.ɪd͡ʒ/	ободря́ть, обо́дрить
legacy существительное	/ˈlɛɡəsi/	насле́дство
routine существительное	/ɹuˈtin/	рути́на, распоря́док
define глагол	/dɪˈfaɪn/	определя́ть, определи́ть
breathe глагол	/bɹiːð/	дыша́ть
nail существительное	/neɪl/	но́готь
roster существительное	/ˈɹɔ.stɚ/	спи́сок
activation существительное	/ˌæktəˈveɪʃən/	актива́ция, активиза́ция

Фразовые глаголы, которые вы услышите

Слово	Произношение	Значение
figure out глагол		разбира́ться, разобра́ться
show up глагол		объявля́ться, объяви́ться
break down глагол		ломаться, сломаться
carry out глагол	/ˈkæ.ɹi aʊt/	выноси́ть, вы́нести
come around глагол	/kʌ.məˈɹaʊnd/	переду́мать
come back глагол		возвраща́ться, возврати́ться
come up with глагол		придумывать, приходить в голову
find out глагол		узнава́ть, узна́ть

Фразы, которые стоит повторять

Короткие законченные фразы из видео, которые пригодятся в повседневном разговоре:

As a coach, how did you deal with it?
What am I going to do right now?
Why do you make it so visible?
Can you tell early on how coachable folks are?
You know where I would start?

Грамматика в этом видео

Конструкции, которые говорящий использует чаще всего, с точными словами из видео:

Конструкция	В видео
Придаточные определительные who / which + предложение — уточнение о человеке или предмете	years which is · kid that was · people that can
Present Perfect have/has + причастие прошедшего времени — прошлое действие, важное сейчас	you've written · you've used · you've done
Пассивный залог be + причастие прошедшего времени — важно, что происходит, а не кто это делает	was assigned · be challenged

Произношение, на которое стоит обратить внимание

Говорящий использует 92 сокращённых и редуцированных форм, например you're, don't, we're. Произносите их коротко, так, как слышите.

Звуки «th»: breathe /bɹiːð/, athlete /ˈæθ.liːt/, therapist /ˈθɛɹəpɪst/, tenth /tɛnθ/, empathy /ˈɛmpəθi/
Звуки «sh» и «zh»: motivation /ˈmoʊ.tə.veɪ.ʃən/, activation /ˌæktəˈveɪʃən/, preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/, emotion /ɪˈməʊ.ʃən/, accomplish /əˈkɑm.plɪʃ/
Длинные слова — следите за ударением: motivation /ˈmoʊ.tə.veɪ.ʃən/, activation /ˌæktəˈveɪʃən/, psychologist /ˌsaɪˈkɑl.ə.d͡ʒɪst/, experiment /ɪkˈspɛɹ.ə.mənt/, preparation /ˌpɹɛpəˈɹeɪʃ(ə)n/

Звуки, трудные для русскоязычных:

/w/ — губы округлены, это не /v/: swim /swɪm/, weed /wiːd/, backward /ˈbækwɚd/, equate /ɪˈkweɪt/, swimmer /ˈswɪm.ɚ/
/h/ — лёгкий выдох, а не русское «х»: habit /ˈhæb.ɪt/, hammer /ˈhæmɚ/, hyper /ˈhaɪ.pəɹ/, sledgehammer /ˈslɛd͡ʒhæmɚ/
Звонкие согласные в конце слова — не оглушайте их: encourage /ɪnˈkʌɹ.ɪd͡ʒ/, impressive /ɪmˈpɹɛsɪv/, objective /ɒbˈd͡ʒɛk.tɪv/, weed /wiːd/, depend /dɪˈpɛnd/

Как заниматься с этим видео

Прослушайте всё видео один раз молча и выпишите незнакомые слова.
Начните со скорости 0,75×, повторяйте предложение за предложением и вернитесь к обычной скорости, когда станет легко.
Запишите себя и сравните с оригиналом, обращая внимание на такие слова, как swim, feedback, medal.

Что такое техника Shadowing?

Shadowing — это научно обоснованная техника изучения языка, изначально разработанная для подготовки профессиональных переводчиков и популяризированная полиглотом доктором Александром Аргуэльесом. Метод прост, но эффективен: вы слушаете аудио на английском от носителей языка и немедленно повторяете вслух — как тень, следующая за говорящим с задержкой в 1–2 секунды. В отличие от пассивного прослушивания или грамматических упражнений, Shadowing заставляет мозг и мышцы рта одновременно обрабатывать и воспроизводить реальные речевые паттерны. Исследования показывают, что это значительно улучшает точность произношения, интонацию, ритм, связную речь, понимание на слух и беглость речи — что делает его одним из самых эффективных методов для подготовки к IELTS Speaking и реального общения на английском.

Техника шедоуинга: читать полное пошаговое руководство →

Практика Shadowing: Bob Bowman on Winning: Lessons from Coaching Michael Phelps - Изучайте разговорный английский по видео

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