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It's almost like you're walking around with a blister.

You can walk.

It's hurting a little bit, but it's not that it's going to stop you.

And that's what I'd been for some time.

So it was so interesting to finally understand what it was that wasn't matching.

Life is too short to be in a job that you don't like, that is gently soul crushing.

What is this?

This isn't a dress rehearsal.

We only live one life.

And are you going to do that in a place where you're so or slightly unhappy?

No, like demand more from your life.

Anyone who needs to pitch their value, whether it be in a business setting, whether it be in a performance review,

this is so valuable to move away from I'm being cocky by doing this and stepping into your confidence.

A lot of people have a hard time telling the world what they do and who they are.

By the time she was done, I started sobbing.

It's just like I was just being myself and I felt like I could be heard.

So this is what it means when you meet your insecurities.

And mind you, no is a full sentence.

that's taken a long time for me to really understand and accept.

All right, Balancers, today's episode is going to be a treat.

I have a woman on who I've been excited to chat to.

I think we overlap in not only our interests, but I think her trajectory,

where she's come from, where she is now is something that I find quite inspiring, as well as what she's doing now,

I think has a lot to offer, not only for the niche that you work in now, but just for the everyday person listening,

how they can connect with their insecurities, find their confidence, find their voice in things they're doing.

So I'm excited to get into it, but let me just introduce her first.

She is known as a Chief Inspirational Officer, which is such a cool title, for businesses globally.

She's an international award -winning economist, Forbes contributor, and she's the founder and CEO of the Middle East Leading Speaking Bureau, MENA Speakers.

My guest today is Sana Azam.

Sana, a warm welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

No, I'm really excited to chat to you.

I really want to know about your transition from banking to running Mina Speakers.

And the reason I'm so interested to know about it is I've been meeting

so many people who have made this jump out of corporate into just something completely different.

I think where your creativity has a little bit more room to breathe.

So talk to me about that transition for you.

Nice.

Yes, I was a high -flying businesswoman doing really well in the banking and financial services sector, and it paid handsomely.

So just really excited about where my career was heading.

What was your actual role?

I was client -facing.

So I've gone from precious metals like gold, selling gold in essence.

Investments, right?

Yeah, exactly, to central banks where they refined their bullion just for their currencies and similar things into trading,

so different asset classes, equities, stocks, bonds, effects, etc. So I did that, and things were really fun.

I was learning a lot.

I enjoyed my colleagues.

But there was still in the back of my mind something that was just a little bit off.

I went, what is it?

What is it?

And so I went and took this course that I thought was a leadership course.

Turns out that it's an NLP course.

That's a neuro linguistics program.

Exactly.

Yep.

Can you explain what that is just for people who haven't heard about it before?

Basically, it's the tools to be able to coach people to enhance their lives.

It's a classic life coaching course.

But the way it was promoted was leadership.

So I didn't really read the fine print or the details.

I went, oh, amazing.

Let's go.

So I did that and somehow accidentally got my certification after the Sunday course.

And I was like, this is amazing, but I was doing it for me.

Yep.

But in this journey, you have to start looking within and going, what are your values?

What do you want from life?

What do you want to do?

And we're doing these zillion exercises.

And as I was doing that, one question was, what are your values?

List them quickly.

How close are you to living your values percentage -wise at the current workplace you're in?

Good question yep so i looked at it and i went

and started adding percentages and i went oh my gosh okay

so i knew it was off i just didn't know why

and i wasn't living my values at all the place was fine

and everything cosmatically looked great my career was heading somewhere beautiful

but then i knew something was off and it was almost like you're walking around with a blister you can walk

it's hurting a little bit but it's not

that it's going to stop you and that's what i'd been for sometimes it was

so interesting to finally understand what it was that wasn't matching

and what were those values that you found were really off

or not present i'm all a lot about like altruism doing good by doing well serving my community helping others

but at the same time being able to help myself in

that process um so that's such a core thing for who i am

and my identity and you're not exactly doing that in banking and financial sector yeah i get that

Yeah, it's a bit off.

And so when I learned that I couldn't unlearn it.

Yeah.

So I came back after this course and I went, something's off and I look over at my manager

and I'm like hey let's go and have a chat

because what is that I was like can't do this anymore gotta go

and he went well can I offer

you more money like what can we do to keep you we want to retain you

and I went you really can't it's all right

so I had to leave on the day because that's what happens in

that sector and then I went back to this list

and I went okay now

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that I know this how can I build a business based on this

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and I started brainstorming and just maybe that's weird that

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and this is where the idea for me now speakers came up like a speaker agency with educators

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that are there on the stage inspiring hundreds of people

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and that's really about serving my community um so that's how things unfolded

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and i haven't looked back since because i'm true to my values

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and true to who i am that's amazing and i guess just being

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so grounded in knowing what wasn't working for you and how important

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that is just by doing that exercise was enough for you to make that decision.

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There'll be a lot of people listening who know what you mean

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when you say you've been walking around with a blister, right?

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They know that feeling in their current role.

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But to make such a drastic leap like that, A, may not be feasible for where they're at, and B, scares them a lot too.

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So for people who maybe can't just pack it up on the spot, what advice do you have to them?

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Say they, for example, need to start thinking about what that next step is before they take the step.

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Maybe you can walk us through how you actually came to working out,

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Mina Speakers, or anything just practical you did at the time for people to feel more comfortable making that jump.

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Yeah.

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So if you're stuck in a role where you have to be there

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because you have a family to provide for or bills or whatever it may be, then find something on the side that nourishes your soul,

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whether that's a passion or a side business or similar,

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because that's going to energize you and it's going to be able to sustain you in the workplace where you're at.

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until eventually down the line you can look for another job or transition into your own business, something like that.

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But that act alone can balance out.

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This is depleting me a little bit, but this is energizing me so I can keep going.

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Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up because firstly, I'm the perfect example of that.

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So I just shared with you a little bit how, you know, I don't hate my job as a corporate lawyer,

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but it doesn't light me up the way this does, doing podcasting, having businesses.

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And I only know that because I dabbled in it on the side.

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So I had a point of reference to be like, okay, I now have a clear comparison of how my energy is in doing both things.

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And you're right.

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Just because I talk about on the show I have before about why hobbies are so important.

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And they're important because

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if you put all this pressure on your job to be this one thing that fulfills you across the board,

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it's a very unrealistic standard because it's very unlikely you're going to have one job

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or one career that's going to tick every single box of yours, your creativity, your passion, your interests, all these things, right?

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Unless you're running in your own business and you're making your own role, it's very difficult.

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Absolutely.

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So having these hobbies to leverage off really re -energizes you to do your actual job,

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which kind of over the years has helped me stay afloat because I've needed to do my career for financial means.

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So it's given me

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that balance until I've been able to work out what it

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is i actually want to do i'm with you now i

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had a friend who was in a situation where he was gently unhappy with his workplace

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and it everything was fine it's all fine

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and i kept hearing the stories

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and at some point i went oh my gosh it's like you're almost in a narcissistic relationship

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and it's a soul -crushing experience it's so gently soul -crushing it's enough to be

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fine but why why would you put yourself through

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that i've changed my outlook on this yes you can balance

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that with hobbies and other stuff

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but life is too short to be in a job

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that you don't like

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that is gently soul crushing what is this this isn't a dress rehearsal we only live one life

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and are you gonna do that in a place where you're

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so or slightly unhappy no like demand more from your life

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and it's the same if you're in a relationship

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and you have a partner that's like slightly making you unhappy demand more from life

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so i would say find something else find yourself do something else

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but to sit through that that is so unhealthy

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and it's this gentle chipping away of the soul

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that i think is more dangerous than a place that is

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so obviously toxic and you're leaving but it's that

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that little that's breaking you down that i think is more dangerous than anything else 100%.

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I like that you've likened it to a relationship because when you think about it like that,

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you're like, well, I wouldn't tolerate that from somebody else.

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Then it makes you think, why the hell am I tolerating that from a job?

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And it's interesting to think if you're not so obviously unhappy, we tend to not question or make change because we don't have enough of a,

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let's just say, fire up our ass to make that change because it's okay.

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But it's okay to question things when they're okay because, like you said, it's your life.

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You live it once.

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Why not?

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do something that makes you happy.

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And I think you're slightly gaslighting yourself.

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Now I'm throwing all the terms from the book.

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This is a tough love somebody listening needs to hear.

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It is because you're going, oh, but the pay is good.

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But, you know, I'm miserable or I don't really feel good

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because I have a toxic manager or my colleagues are slightly bullying me or not treating me so nicely.

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No, this is not okay.

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This is not healthy for you. So don't do that.

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Don't do that to yourself.

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It's like you're manipulating yourself into accepting something that you technically don't really want for your life.

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100%.

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And if you, you know, you are there, like you said, like starting to have that thing on the side.

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So you can, at least there's like light at the end of the tunnel when you do that.

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It's not like you're just accepting the situation for as it is.

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You're making those small steps on the side if you're not in a position to make that drastic shift.

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So, yeah, I know there's someone listening that just needed to hear everything you just said.

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So tough love is something I find hard to give to myself.

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I'm a lot softer with things, but I honestly, you know, sometimes you just need to hear it how it is.

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It's not just you.

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So we might segue into public speaking at some point here, but, you know, one of the exercises that I do in my master classes

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and sessions is that I let people present and look at themselves in a video format.

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Nine out of ten people do not want to watch that video.

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And this is them just speaking.

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It's something that we do every day.

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And you don't want to watch yourself as you're doing that.

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I think it's so hard.

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It takes bravery and guts to take a hard look in the mirror or even a look.

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It doesn't even need to be hard.

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Just look at yourself.

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Quick glance.

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Yeah, like what's going on?

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Do I feel good in my own body?

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Am I safe?

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Does this feel right?

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And then go, no. What am I going to do about that?

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No. And this is where friends and accountability partners are amazing because they will tell you.

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They love you so much.

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They'll tell you as it is.

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So you do share how public speaking is a way to meet your insecurities.

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And I think that, you know, a lot of people look at public speaking and go, it's not for me.

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I never want to do it.

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I never want to be on stage.

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But from what you've just shared, and I know this from the first time I edited my own podcast and I was like,

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oh my God, I can't listen to my own voice.

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And so many people have that experience.

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Like when I have them on the show, if it's like friends or family and then we watch it together,

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they just like panic and shrivel up inside.

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So talk to me about how somebody listening who's got no interest in doing public speaking,

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I'm doing that in quote unquote marks for everyone not watching video.

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Because everyone does speak publicly.

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Right, okay, that's a whole other segue.

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But in terms of like how we traditionally look at public speaking, being on stage, talk to me about some more of the exercises you do

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and how that can actually help someone in daily life, not just to get up and practice for a TED Talk.

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Oh, there's so many things I want to say, and I'm excited about this question.

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All right.

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So at the end of the day, we can all improve by reading a book or watching a YouTube

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or taking an online course when it comes to this space.

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But the reason people come to me is because I'm noticing what is said and not said.

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And then I'm helping you also look at yourself and explore who you are.

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One of the things that I tend to do is we start off with an elevator pitch.

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you know a lot of people have a hard time telling the world what they do and who they are

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it's from a professional stance and quite often it sounds like my name is

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so and so this is my title

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and this is where i work at this is often my best case scenario

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and quite often it's not full name it's not saying the title fully

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and what i like to do is go well give me

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a bit more to work with here uh maybe brag a little bit

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so i know that you're an expert in your field

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that question oh it can take us hours to unpack and

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so once we've constructed that

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and it does justice to the person's expertise in front of me

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and now anybody that hears this elevator pitch knows who they are

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and what they can offer and do justice to their experience then i record them

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and i ask them to you know stand up present

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and now you're going to watch yourself oh so much happens in this moment where I don't feel comfortable bragging about myself.

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You're not bragging.

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You're just telling us what you do.

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You're helping me.

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So if I need your services or your expertise, I know who to reach out to.

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Oh, my God, I didn't know that I was all of this.

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Well, you know, you're pretty awesome.

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This is really great.

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Yeah.

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Why do we struggle with that?

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Like really like just accepting or being able to share with someone else the full extent of who we are.

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Like you said, it's not even bragging.

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It's just the reality of what we've achieved and who we are and what we can offer.

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Why do we struggle with that so much?

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So imposter syndrome comes up a lot.

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You should be playing small.

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You shouldn't think that you're better than others.

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In Australia, we call it tall poppy syndrome.

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So being the tallest poppy, you stand out in front of everyone else and no one wants to be that.

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That's interesting.

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So that type of mentality is definitely a Swedish thing as well.

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You're not really allowed to show up fully.

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You shouldn't think that you're better than others.

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So you have all this type of conditioning that comes up and then all of a sudden you're starting to play small.

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You're hiding who you are.

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and it's beautiful to watch people, professionals, and you go, whoa, really cool.

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That's who I am.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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I like it.

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Yeah, I like it too.

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And I know how you can help me.

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Fantastic.

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That's one example.

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Yeah, I think just thinking about this, right, not just, I mean, I know you teach it in the context of public speaking,

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but really anyone who needs to pitch their value, whether it be in a business setting, whether it be in a performance review,

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this is so valuable to move away from I'm being cocky by doing this

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and stepping into your confidence of like no I'm actually going to own who I am

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and and what I've achieved what's maybe one more

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that you find really effective that's an exercise you do with your speakers

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that helps them do

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that internal kind of check -in to express themselves to their full extent give you an example of something

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that happened yesterday I had a master class

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and one of the people in this session had this theatrical approach

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and it was almost a defense mechanism let me go up

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and pretend that I'm somebody else and I'm this super happy person

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and actually it worked it was fine it's enjoyable to listen to

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but I went whoa time out let's let's do this differently let's try something else right

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so this has worked her whole career this is why I'm saying it's fine

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but let's try something else and there's something else I won't forget

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that everybody else is here in the room just talk to me

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and take a breath nobody's watching just tell me what you do

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and she started answering ah okay and how can you help me

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and what is the expertise that you have where have you been before

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and we had that one -on -one conversation at the time she was done started sobbing i went

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what happened it's just like i was just being myself and i felt like i could be heard

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so this is what it means when you meet your insecurities

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and allow yourself and your own voice be heard your authentic self to be heard

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and there is a transition through it this is why we tend to be first a bit mechanical

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i do the mechanical stuff in the beginning this is how you present

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and these are the structures all right

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and then we move into well why don't you make it your own now play with it all right

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so you said i should sound like this but how about

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if i sound like this or that or whatever

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that might be yes we start experimenting until

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that person lands in whatever is their authentic you know body language

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or voice or vocal projection or linguistics words that they will use

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but that does go through that process so interesting what are your thoughts on,

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I know a lot of people talk about kind of not having an alter ego, but kind of like a character they step into,

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like when they go on stage.

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So now that I'm hearing what you're saying, right, which really is just about bringing it back to your authentic self

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and finding a style that reflects that in an authentic way.

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How does that kind of merge with the idea of playing a character or having a persona to show up?

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Okay.

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I love that.

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That's kind of like the Beyonce Sasha Fierce thing yeah right

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because like not an alter ego

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but kind of like a you need to step into this energy to be on the stage absolutely absolutely

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and over the years I've been stuck three times I've trained hundreds

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but I got stuck three times and this is

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when I went this person is so attached to the identity

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that they have been given their parents have given society has given them whatever

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that might be i'm not moving forward

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so i went all right give me an alter ego uh somebody

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that you think is cool who's your other person the person who you are on your free time

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when you're with your best friends and you're just like in your element all right

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that person is tony okay and how is tony cool swagger is funny is charming amazing All right.

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Do you think we can bring

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Tony to the stage?

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Yeah.

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Maybe we leave Anthony in the sea and Tony goes up and presents.

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Now we can do that.

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All right, Tony, the stage is yours.

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That shift alone is still the same person.

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It's just letting go of this fixed idea that, you know, we think we are, we think the world perceives us as,

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you know breaking through that allows for so much change

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but it doesn't happen often it's now three

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so far that's my case studies and it's been really amazing to see

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that transition you know I think it's interesting because I think

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depending on what content you consume and what information you've taken in, sometimes you feel you need to step into something to show up, right?

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And whether that be as simple as to psych yourself up to go on a date

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or networking event or to prepare to go on stage.

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And I just wonder

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if that's a damaging approach versus taking a little bit more

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of an authentic aligned approach in terms of who you are and who you want to show up as.

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I'm with you.

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I'm with you.

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I guess the question is like, if you want to be more confident, If you want to show up with a little bit more energy,

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what's the fine line between...

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Performative, theatrical versus authentic.

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I'm with you.

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Let's go back to the Anthony.

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The difference between the two is that one is carrying shame and guilt

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and the other one has given themselves permission to let go of that shame and guilt.

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Let's unpack this a bit.

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Sorry?

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Let's unpack this a bit.

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Because I love how much of this, like it's not just a conversation about public speaking and techniques.

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It's actually the inner work that's reflected outwards.

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Because that's what public speaking is.

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It's a public projection of who you are.

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And whether you take that on a stage or in an interpersonal relationship perspective,

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doing that work has so much value in the way you show up in these settings.

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So, okay, well, you're coming from two different places.

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Talk to me about the two different, like, how do we work out where we sit with that?

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Like, how do I know if, I mean, maybe that's the wrong question, because I guess you know the feelings.

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Yeah, but you can asset test it yourself and you know

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and i think a nice way is you'd be surprised how much you can see from yourself

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when you're putting on a mask and you're being a bit extra or you're being a bit

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not really yourself so if you just record it

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and you're watching it and then you can also ask a best friend a partner

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or somebody that knows you really well be like what do you think about this um

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and we all have a built -in authenticity radar okay

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so audiences will know and this is

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so interesting in this you know i've been observing this for years in the master classes

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that i have

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so i do an exercise where i ask the audience to

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give feedback on a post -it stop start continue what you stop doing start doing continue doing

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and then everyone starts typing the feedback and these are individuals

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that haven't been that are not trainers in public speaking

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that are not coaching they haven't necessarily read anything about it

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but our instinct

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and our gut around who's being authentic who's lying who's making

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something up versus who is just being the real self we all have

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that built in innately so it's so interesting to just collect the post -its

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and start comparing the notes quite often we overlap on a lot of the the comments

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so so do you mean

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that like a lot of people in the room will have the same radar in terms of how

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that person is showing up which is interesting right like because

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if you think if you're listening to this

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and you're currently on the dating scene

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or you're even interviewing for a job like the importance of the way

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you show up in those settings is it's not just about what you're saying

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but it's the energy that sits behind it and absolutely it's how

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and this is the thing I can't necessarily pinpoint it anymore right now for me

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and this I've been doing this for years right

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so within a couple of minutes I know

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if the person in front of me is in their truth not they have a mask on not

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and then i can hear kind of footnotes to what is being said i try to stay at home a lot

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protect the castle a little bit a little bit

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so i can hear what's happening

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and this is why at this stage it's become a very intuitive experience

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but if you want to unpack

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that yeah you can see some body language like some gestures

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that tell you somebody is being inauthentic is lying is thinking that they're superior to you, if they're self -soothing, their heart is beating,

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you will see some of these gestures, whether that's contempt, this one is always to watch out for, and this is research from,

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you have both John Gottman and Paul Ekman

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that I think are fantastic resources to read about this space for both relationships and body language, but also instinctively, you know,

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if somebody's doing this all the time, something's off, they're trying to push down their heart rate, they're trying to self -soothe.

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So you start looking for clues.

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Yeah, if I have to engage intellectually, intellectually, I'll be doing that.

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At this stage, so intuitive.

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I have a really good sense of who's in front of me

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and what is going on and if they're feeling deeply uncomfortable or not.

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And so my job is to go, oh, what's happening?

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Do you want to try this again?

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Why don't we try this again this way?

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Okay.

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And then they see themselves and they go, oh, now I'm in my truth.

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This is something that's almost like a lifelong pursuit as well.

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Now, I have been classically trained around the world in various schools and houses in public speaking, but it went from quite a clinical,

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academic, robotic, this is what you should do, and then just anecdotally just observing other speakers, this works for them, maybe I should try that,

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observing myself, I'm constantly in this evaluation space of...

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am i in my truth and sometimes i have to take a breath

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and be like okay what's in my heart what is happening here this doesn't feel right

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or this does feel right let's do this we definitely discount the role of intuition

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i think even women especially i think we have a very strong intuitive

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uh kick that can come up at different moments in times

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that we might discount for logic

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or for being uh you know making the the logical decision which you know that's that's a whole nother separate conversation.

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But let's link this back to business.

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You know, we were talking about it yesterday, again, in this masterclass where the corporate world has this really funny tendency.

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You will see these corporate speakers within, maybe it's in -house meetings or town halls or similar,

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and they go, we are so delighted to launch this new product.

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We have now doubled our sales.

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Unfortunately, we have to close down this organization.

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And it's this associated style of speaking.

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Well, if you're a normal human being, which all of us are, then you go, oh my God,

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I'm so excited that we're going to be launching this new product and our sales have doubled.

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This is incredible.

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That's how we would be talking if we're talking to our friends

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or we're being human but it's been normalized to be disassociated when you're on this corporate, when you're in a corporate presentation.

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And I see this everywhere and I go, are you really excited?

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You know, really what's going on?

451

Yes, which is, it's always eyeopening when I come with this comment and then I go, yeah, actually that's weird.

452

It's super weird.

453

We don't talk that way anywhere else.

454

Why has this become so normalized in the corporate world?

455

Why should we be less human?

456

And it's just, I think it's just snuck in and become the way we do it.

457

Yeah.

458

And now the problem is like everyone perpetuates that that's just the way we do it.

459

And that's not only in, you know, the setting you've kind of shared board meeting style, but even down to like interviews,

460

team meetings, things like that.

461

It's, I mean, take that with a grain of salt because obviously it comes down to who's in the team, who's the team leader.

462

People make a huge difference.

463

But in general speaking, from my experience in corporate too, it's very clinical.

464

May as well be a hospital sometimes.

465

Yeah.

466

Yeah.

467

Like, you know what I mean?

468

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

469

No, absolutely.

470

Quite stock standard.

471

Because I bounce around from organization to organization around the world, not just here.

472

But we cannot present that way because, you know, we're in the corporate world and we're professionals.

473

And I'm like, oh, really?

474

I don't come from that background at all.

475

And I haven't worked with corporates and all these people for years.

476

Yeah.

477

I know where you're coming from, but resist the urge to conform to bad practices.

478

Yeah.

479

So now you have to become that trailblazer that says, you know what, we're not going to have this graph with so many charts and numbers.

480

Anyway, the cognitive load is too high.

481

I can't take in that amount of information.

482

Like resist the urge to do things that are silly, inefficient, not productive, not helpful for the people in the room.

483

And I think speaking in a disconnected way is not a high impact way of communicating.

484

Yeah, 100%.

485

If we circle back, so we've obviously been talking about how public speaking can really like build your connection to self, your understanding of self.

486

It helps you do some inner work, right, that you may not have confronted otherwise.

487

Now that you, I guess like you've done this journey yourself, you coach other people to do it.

488

Now when you grow and change in your life, and I always talk about how,

489

you know, you can learn to deal with fear and self -doubt, but it doesn't mean it's never going to show up again

490

because the next time you push yourself outside of your comfort zone, you made it again because you're in a new dynamic,

491

you're in a new environment.

492

So in terms of like your voice or your confidence evolving with the different things you push yourself in,

493

how do you deal with or I guess navigate those turning points

494

when you're like pushing yourself again and you're feeling that discomfort and it almost, I ask this because it almost,

495

no matter how self -confident you are ensuring yourself, it does, it can shake you a little bit when you,

496

when you're pushing yourself and that doubt and, and you can, you can look at people you really admire and think they don't go through it,

497

but they do.

498

Everyone goes through it when they reach that new level.

499

So I'm curious with your training, what you teach, how do you practice that in your own evolutions?

500

Okay.

501

It's a sequence of events.

502

It's every time I say, no, thank you.

503

I want to stay in.

504

Every time I say, no, that wasn't so nice can you please speak more gently towards me

505

or get more respectful or no thank you i don't want to take on this task

506

or could i please have this is what i need it's this small small things

507

that you do in your daily life that builds that muscle of feeling comfortable and speaking up

508

and that's taken me some time to to connect with um

509

but i always go back to there are moments where I do feel ashamed or guilt or.

510

Yeah, those standard feelings of somebody said this to me, it didn't make me feel good.

511

I feel like I'm being manipulated or I feel like I'm being guilt tripped into doing something that I'm not comfortable with.

512

What do I do?

513

I might take a step back and go, whoa, wait, give me a minute.

514

I'll go back.

515

I'll unpack that communication and go, okay, this is what I want to respond that is true to me.

516

I want to resist the urge to go, yes, let's do it.

517

And that's definitely there like the people pleaser in me is definitely there

518

that wants to just get on and do everything yeah

519

so taking that time out go back and then drafting

520

and it's a cognitive exercise of thinking how do i convey the message of no thank you mind

521

you know is a full sentence great point yeah

522

and that's that's taken a long time for me to really understand

523

and accept but as i'm doing that in my daily life it becomes

524

so much easier for me to show up in a podcast on stage in a panel discussion

525

with my friends and speak my truth fully.

526

And my truth is my truth and nobody can negotiate or debate me on that because that's my lived experience.

527

I don't really have the right to go after me over something that I've lived through.

528

And that's becoming increasingly something that I am allowing for.

529

And sometimes I go, whoa, that was bold.

530

I said that?

531

Okay, that happened.

532

But that also allows for when I go up on stage and I am presenting, my point is not to be liked by everyone,

533

because if that's the case, I'll sell ice cream.

534

My point is to be thought provoking and to show you perhaps your shadows

535

or to show you something that maybe society is talking about something.

536

But what are we not talking about and what is not being addressed?

537

And then it's my job to highlight that.

538

And I see that as my role as a person on stage as a leader.

539

I think that's a great call out, like looking at every day,

540

how can you stick to those commitments you make to yourself or really what you shared is setting boundaries?

541

Because when you can ongoingly do that for yourself, then when you deal with those difficult moments in life, you have the strong foundation.

542

It's like, you know, if you're trying to, I don't know, like build a house on a rocky foundation

543

or if that house represents you going for that crazy job interview

544

or jumping on stage and you haven't proven to yourself

545

that you got your own back or that you're confident in who you are, which is every day saying no,

546

setting those boundaries, that makes that so much easier.

547

And so that's such an easy thing that everyone can do every day.

548

It's like commit to yourself.

549

Lean into what doesn't feel right.

550

Stop saying yes to things you want to say no to.

551

And I always say when you say yes to somebody else, you're saying no to yourself, which is the best reframe.

552

I was a huge people pleaser this was the one thing that hit home for me where I was like,

553

oh, if I'm saying yes to them, I'm saying no to me.

554

That's silly.

555

I would never expect someone else to say yes to me and no to themselves.

556

That flipped everything on its head for me.

557

I love that.

558

Well done you, by the way.

559

Well, I mean, again, it was a process.

560

And like you said, I get the urge all the time, but like you creating that space and actually not responding straight away,

561

which was, I'm like always respond to my messages straight away actually just waiting and thinking, letting myself feel, do I want to do that?

562

Do I not?

563

Is that going to impact what I call my non -negotiables?

564

Taking that moment of pause is super important.

565

Yeah, you're right.

566

And the two things I want to add that are becoming these guiding principles for me in this space.

567

One is, what would I say to my daughter if she was put in that position?

568

And she's become this amazing teacher for all of these things.

569

Would I advise to move forward or to say no that's one

570

and the other one is i start to trust my body more

571

if i feel the slightest like my nervous is regulated even

572

if it's just like the slightest bit i'm feeling something

573

and i go oh so if it's not a full yes then i have to go

574

and assess what's going on here

575

and they say the hardest uh nodes are the ones closest to a yes yeah it's almost there

576

but it's not fully there.

577

It's like the blister in the full.

578

It's just something that's off.

579

And it's like one of those things where it's hard to say no

580

when nothing's like apparently wrong or to walk away from something that's not broken.

581

You know, when you make those decisions because it's actually like this is just more aligned for me, there's actually nothing wrong with this situation,

582

they're the hardest ones to make because there's nothing that's prompted you to up and go or to take action.

583

It's you just deciding that there is something more aligned for you.

584

So let me validate that.

585

I just really want to take a moment because I think this is so important.

586

That's enough.

587

Yeah.

588

That's enough for you.

589

It doesn't feel right.

590

It doesn't feel right.

591

I want to stay home.

592

Stay home.

593

I don't want to go out.

594

Don't go out.

595

I don't want to work there.

596

Don't.

597

Your feelings are valid.

598

My feelings are valid.

599

Everyone's feelings are valid.

600

And that's a reason enough to do what honors your truth.

601

Yeah.

602

And, and not feel like you said, no's a full sentence.

603

You don't need to justify.

604

I find myself, um, even though I've got good boundaries now, I find myself needing to justify sometimes like no,

605

because X, Y, Z and explaining myself when that's not necessary because no is a complete sentence.

606

Us talking about finding yourself, working on your insecurities, having those people around you can bounce ideas off, getting stronger and understanding who you are.

607

And we talk about how this, I mean, it helps in every aspect of life.

608

Let's not even undersell it.

609

Anything you do doing this kind of work is valuable,

610

but I want to talk about something that I used to find difficult and that is valuable for every single person.

611

I don't care what you do, entrepreneur, careerist, whatever you do, it's valuable.

612

And that's networking, which scares a lot of people.

613

A lot of people think they don't have to do it.

614

For example, lawyer, nine to five job.

615

You want to grow in that particular firm.

616

You may not think networking is important.

617

Right.

618

I see the value in it because building connections is the greatest thing you can do.

619

Life is all about connections.

620

You never know what relationships will bring, what relationships will be fruitful for any reason, personal or professional.

621

Yeah.

622

But let's talk about the networking scene.

623

Obviously, there's professional events you can go to.

624

You can ask someone out for a coffee, many different things.

625

How do you approach networking yourself

626

or what tips would you give people in terms of thinking about networking um without making

627

it too mechanical at the end of the day it's about you know just connecting with people

628

but i think sometimes having a little bit of an approach

629

or some things to think about questions to ask

630

or ways to approach people how to ask them yeah it's useful oh absolutely

631

so there's a lot of research around this and

632

so much to unpack in the question that's like where do i go um yeah

633

so we we have seen the research that shows

634

that you're gonna you know get a job quicker gonna earn slightly more

635

if you're coming from a referral um

636

and your network is your net worth i'm sure we've all heard this that's a given

637

but what is the best one of the best approaches

638

when you're out there

639

and you're networking um maybe skip the autopilot questions hi where

640

are you from where do you live what do you work with that's uh

641

if you're trying to build a relationship at the end of the we're trying to release a hormone called oxytocin

642

it's a relationship builder and you don't do

643

that by asking autopilot questions it's not an amazing approach

644

or more it's fine but they're more effective

645

and impactful ways of building relationships so skip that for a second

646

and you can go uh what do you love about your

647

job uh what are your passion projects um what languages do you speak?

648

I prefer that one over where are you from?

649

What languages do you speak?

650

And so many times I've been shocked by that answer.

651

You're seeing a person that you think is only speaking Arabic and he says, you know, I speak Russian, English and Arabic.

652

Russian?

653

Oh, interesting.

654

But what you're doing is you're opening up for a more interesting conversation, you're releasing oxytocin, you're bonding better.

655

And that's a great way to network

656

because now you're truly bonding as opposed to handing out your business cards like confetti to everyone

657

um it's fine but perhaps you want to build deeper relationships

658

that you start building these true alliances and champions

659

that will help you when you pick up the phone

660

and ask for a favor yeah

661

and it's not even about i mean obviously there's a there's a role there for having different kind of conversations

662

but you also stand out to that person like every time i get someone on the show

663

So I've had people on that have been on hundreds of podcasts.

664

And the one thing that I always go for is I like this is something I just

665

when they say it makes me so happy.

666

They're like, oh, no one's ever asked me that before.

667

Because I really want to try and think about ways I can connect with that person that's outside of,

668

you know, TV interviews they would have done.

669

That's just stock standard that they talk about all the time.

670

And so I think if you approach networking the same, like remove the aspect that it's even networking or professional.

671

It's just like what do you actually want to know about this person?

672

Like I think we complicate genuine connection.

673

You know, it's become, and maybe that comes from, I mean, my background is corporate, yours is too.

674

Maybe it comes from that clinical aspect of corporate that we're talking about that way that things are, that people are very just,

675

they bring that energy to interactions as well.

676

I've done interviewing for our other businesses.

677

And when I'm interviewing someone, it's honestly like they've made it to an interview because they have the experience on paper.

678

But what gets them through the next round is can I connect with you?

679

I'm going to work with you every single day.

680

Do we have some synergy?

681

Are you a good fit for the team, for the family, people you're going to be working with?

682

So I think people just discount that so much in these kinds of interactions, especially when it comes to work.

683

It's almost like when you put a camera in front of you, people will get a little bit uptight.

684

It's like professional puts that same lens.

685

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

686

And there's so much to be said about that.

687

You know, there are more hacks and things that you can do to keep building that relationship.

688

One of them is the rule of reciprocity.

689

When you give, there's a cognitive dissonance.

690

So people are going to be more inclined to invest in you.

691

If I'm giving you something, you want to reciprocate, let's go with that.

692

So there's this happening.

693

Yeah, we're built like that.

694

And like the Hare Krishna model was built on that.

695

They would give a rose at the airport and then people would donate as they're leaving.

696

That was one of the reasons for their success.

697

But we humans are built like that.

698

We want to reciprocate kindness.

699

And then with a cognitive dissonance, I want to, there's a story from Benjamin Franklin.

700

It's called The Franklin Effect.

701

Now, he was pursuing a political career, and he was against this huge opponent who was very wealthy, moneyed, powerful.

702

And he went, oh, Lord, what am I going to do?

703

How am I going to go up against this person?

704

He's obviously way mightier than I am.

705

But then he went and asked for a book.

706

He's like, I heard you had this book collection can you lend

707

it to me um this person reluctantly went okay fine you know did

708

that and then he went

709

and just kind of read it sent it back with a note with a thank you note thank you

710

so much for giving me this opportunity hope you're well see you later

711

and then afterwards they built this fantastic relationship

712

because there was an investment in the relationship then there is an inclination to invest more in

713

that relationship so what do we do with

714

that information i would say maybe don't be afraid to ask

715

for favors don't be afraid to ask for help hey what do you think what is your opinion on this

716

and then there's going to be this investment

717

that we want to continue investing in in that relationships and that's how you build deeper relationships amongst other things

718

yeah 100 and i always say you so we're

719

so scared of asking sometimes if you ask

720

and you get a no you're in no different position to where you are

721

so you really only got two options you're going to be better off

722

or in the same position you may as well ask the question yeah yeah

723

and the only disclaimer is be elegant be tactful don't go hey yeah

724

but like don't go hey can you introduce me to new clients right with somebody

725

that you just met it's tacky yeah so it's just like managing

726

that fine line of being elegant and appropriate

727

and having a situational awareness of i'm not going to be a user yeah a taker

728

but i'm gonna allow myself to speak up when i need perhaps some support or help.

729

Yeah.

730

It comes down to intention at the end of the day.

731

Like what's your intention in connecting with people?

732

And if you just want to use them to advance your position, that's never a good way to, that's never going to build meaningful connection.

733

And like you said, we all have an inbuilt authenticity radar.

734

People aren't stupid.

735

So I think just be genuine in your approach.

736

I always say like, you never know, like you might connect with someone, go out of your way, have a coffee with them.

737

And that person may not be the person that helps you do something,

738

but they might know someone who knows someone who gives you a life -changing opportunity.

739

So you have to be very open and genuine in every interaction.

740

And I think knowing yourself and like what we've spoken about today, knowing who you are, being aware of how you show up

741

and really leaning into your insecurities so you can fully embrace your authenticity is key to public speaking,

742

professional life, personal life, and just living yourself, you know?

743

Yeah.

744

Adam Grant's research absolutely supports what you just said.

745

He was researching whether the takers, the givers, or the matchers were better relationship builders.

746

I might want to ask you this one.

747

So do you think those that are taking and

748

when they're trying to build relationships or those that are matching or those that are giving, who do you think are the best relationship builders,

749

more successful in their careers and life, et cetera?

750

The givers?

751

Yeah, but there's a plot twist.

752

So that's exactly what it is.

753

You're like, You got it.

754

You got it.

755

It is the givers, but then you have the over givers that deplete themselves.

756

So it's like the appropriate givers.

757

They're amazing.

758

Not the people pleases.

759

That's what it is.

760

It's again, I think that's like a genuine giving, not giving because you want to tick a box

761

or look a certain way or because you feel you have to is coming from a guilt place.

762

But honestly, I think we could chat for hours if we have the time today.

763

I've learned a lot from chatting with you.

764

I'm sure this is not going to be the last time we have a conversation.

765

I'm very grateful for your time.

766

And if people listening want to connect with you, follow along your journey, check out Mina Speakers.

767

Where's the best place they can go?

768

And I'll pop some links in the show notes.

769

So socials, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook.

770

Beautiful.

771

At Dana Azam at Mina Speakers.

772

That's the best way.

773

I'm really responsive.

774

Okay, amazing.

775

Well, I'll put links to everything in the show notes.

776

Thank you so, so much for your time.

777

And I really appreciate your energy and your thoughts that you've shared today.

778

Thank you for having me.

779

Thank you.

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Vocabulário e dicas de fala para esta lição

Esta aula de conversação usa o vídeo “How to Build Self Confidence”. Este vídeo tem 778 frases e 8847 palavras para praticar shadowing. A fala dura 44:40. O falante fala rápido, cerca de 198 palavras por minuto, então espere sons ligados e reduzidos. 86% das palavras estão entre as 3.000 mais comuns do inglês; vale a pena estudar o restante antes de começar.

Vocabulário principal deste vídeo

15 palavras do vídeo que vale a pena aprender, com pronúncia e significado:

Palavra	Pronúncia	Significado
connect verbo	/kəˈnɛkt/	conectar
authentic adjetivo	/ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/	autêntico
insecurity substantivo		insegurança
transition substantivo	/tɹænˈzɪʃ.ən/	transição
guilt substantivo	/ɡɪlt/	culpa
gently advérbio	/ˈd͡ʒɛntli/	gentilmente
unhappy adjetivo	/ʌnˈhæpi/	infeliz, triste
pitch substantivo	/pɪt͡ʃ/	arremesso
genuine adjetivo	/ˈd͡ʒɛn.juˌɪn/	genuíno, autêntico
crush verbo	/kɹʌʃ/	amassar
cognitive adjetivo	/ˈkɑɡ.nɪ.tɪv/	cognitivo
urge verbo	/ɜːd͡ʒ/	impelir, urgir
whoa	/woʊ/	alto!, ou!
passion substantivo	/ˈpæʃən/	paixão
aspect substantivo	/ˈæspɛkt/	aspeto, aspecto

Phrasal verbs que você vai ouvir

Palavra	Pronúncia	Significado
go back verbo		voltar
go out verbo		sair
go up verbo		subir
move forward verbo		adiantar
work out verbo	/ˌwɝk ˈaʊt/	calcular
check out verbo		verificar, sacar só
come back verbo		voltar
get up verbo		subir

Frases que vale a pena repetir

Frases curtas e completas do vídeo que você pode usar na conversa do dia a dia:

What was your actual role?
I went, what is it?
What do you want from life?
Why don't we try this again this way?
You know, really what's going on?

Gramática neste vídeo

As estruturas que o falante mais usa, com as palavras exatas do vídeo:

Estrutura	No vídeo
Present perfect continuous have/has been + -ing — uma ação que começou antes e continua	I've been meeting · you've been walking · i've been observing
Frases condicionais if + oração, will/would + verbo — uma condição e seu resultado	if that's the case, I'll sell
Present perfect have/has + particípio passado — uma ação passada que ainda importa agora	I've been · have made · I've gone
Voz passiva be + particípio passado — o foco está no que acontece, não em quem faz	could be heard · is known · was promoted

Pronúncia para ficar de olho

O falante usa 264 contrações e formas reduzidas, como you're, I'm, don't. Diga-as na forma curta, do jeito que você ouve.

Os sons de “th”: authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/, authenticity /ɑθɛnˈtɪsɪti/, theatrical /θiˈætɹɪkəl/, breathe /bɹiːð/, wealthy /ˈwɛl.θi/
Os sons de “sh” e “zh”: transition /tɹænˈzɪʃ.ən/, crush /kɹʌʃ/, passion /ˈpæʃən/, interaction /ˌɪn.təˈɹæk.ʃən/, intention /ɪnˈtɛnʃn̩/
Palavras longas — acerte a sílaba tônica: mechanical /məˈkænəkəl/, interaction /ˌɪn.təˈɹæk.ʃən/, authenticity /ɑθɛnˈtɪsɪti/, intuitive /ɪnˈtjuːɪtɪv/, necessarily /ˌnɛs.əˈsɛɹ.ə.li/

Sons difíceis para falantes de português:

Consoante final — sem acrescentar um “i” depois: connect /kəˈnɛkt/, authentic /ɔˈθɛn.tɪk/, guilt /ɡɪlt/, aspect /ˈæspɛkt/, valid /ˈvælɪd/
/l/ final — a língua toca o céu da boca, não vira “u”: mechanical /məˈkænəkəl/, theatrical /θiˈætɹɪkəl/, practical /ˈpɹæk.tɪ.kəl/, castle /ˈkɑːsəl/, muscle /ˈmʌs.əl/
/h/ — um sopro suave, diferente do “r”: unhappy /ʌnˈhæpi/, hobby /ˈhɑ.bi/, rehearsal /ɹɪˈhɝsl̩/, helpful /ˈhɛlp.fl̩/, highlight /ˈhaɪˌlaɪt/

Como praticar com este vídeo

Ouça o vídeo inteiro uma vez sem falar e anote as palavras que você não conhece.
Comece na velocidade 0,75×, faça shadowing frase por frase e volte à velocidade normal quando ficar fácil.
Grave a sua voz e compare com o original, prestando atenção a palavras como connect, authentic, insecurity.

O que é a Técnica de Shadowing?

Shadowing é uma técnica de aprendizado de idiomas com base científica, originalmente desenvolvida para o treinamento de intérpretes profissionais. O método é simples, mas poderoso: você ouve áudio em inglês nativo e repete imediatamente em voz alta — como uma sombra seguindo o falante com 1-2 segundos de atraso. Pesquisas mostram melhora significativa na precisão da pronúncia, entonação, ritmo, sons conectados, compreensão auditiva e fluência na fala.

Técnica de shadowing: leia o guia completo passo a passo →

Prática de Shadowing: How to Build Self Confidence (the DOs & DON’Ts) - Aprenda a falar inglês com vídeo

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Vocabulário e dicas de fala para esta lição

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Phrasal verbs que você vai ouvir

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Pronúncia para ficar de olho

Como praticar com este vídeo

O que é a Técnica de Shadowing?