쉐도잉 연습: Finding Peace Through Family Estrangement - 영상으로 영어 말하기 배우기

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it's such a thin line between like what's appropriate

and what's gone too far because as therapists we do see our clients suffering

and as lindsay mentioned i don't say like you need to leave this relationship

but i might think like i wonder how you will feel

if you did is this a new thing

because i mean for many many many years of doing shows

and talking to families from all over the country and the world.

When there's a crisis, people just sort of figured it out or came together at Thanksgiving and had a big fight.

But is this new?

Yeah, I mean, there's always been estrangements, right?

Forever there's been estrangements.

But it's new the way we think about family.

There's been a radical change in the way that we think about family.

The old days of honor thy mother and thy father, respect thy elders, families forever, has given way to this much more of an emphasis personal happiness,

personal growth, my identity, my political beliefs, my mental health.

So much so that today protecting my mental health is the single most common thing

that I see in every single letter from every estranged child.

And has this been exacerbated or has this increased because of social media?

Oh, there's no question.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Because you've got 2 billion hashtags toxic family.

And everybody's got to, you know, if you line up and you're an estranged parent, you're gonna get onto a Facebook site.

If you're a strange adult child, you're gonna probably get onto Reddit or something like that.

And you're gonna get support for your perspective.

But these aren't people who actually know your parents or know your adult child.

They're gonna kind of tell you what you wanna hear.

So there's this very inflammatory reaction that people have as a result of it.

And partly that happens because we've become so divided as a society.

People are kind of looking for their tribes because their tribes are, you know, they don't have them anymore.

We're lonely.

We have rising rates of mental ill use.

But your tribe used to be your family.

Your tribe used to be your family, exactly.

And it still could if we figure out how to talk to each other.

Well, it's so interesting because, you know, I've been talking to people for a number of years.

And I remember back in the day, meaning 80s, 90s, the aughts, the very idea of having a disagreement with your family

and the very idea of divorcing your parent or removing yourself from a toxic situation was a foreign concept to people.

But now it's like common understanding.

It's common understanding.

It's also positioned as a sort of virtuous act of protecting our mental health.

And you know what?

Sometimes it is.

There are truly abusive, difficult parents and family members.

But there's a lot of people getting estranged today who aren't abusive, who are loving, decent, hardworking, loving, caring parents, and they're being cut off.

And part of the problem with us as therapists is I hope we'll talk about because as therapists,

we become what the sociologists Alison Pugh calls detachment brokers where we help people not feel guilty

about feeling responsible for our parents.

That gets sort of pathologized as being codependent or parentified or that kind of thing.

And therapists are sort of greenlighting a lot of estrangements, particularly when you use language like, oh, your mom's a narcissist or your dad's a borderline

or they're a sociopath or they're gaslighting you or they're a boundary crosser.

And once you say that to somebody, once you tell somebody that their parent or their family member or their child is that way, you just greenlit them cutting them off.

Because now it's a virtuous act of protecting your mental health.

I think that's a problem.

Okay.

Dr. Linz Gibson is here, and she's a clinical psychologist and New York Times bestselling author of Adult Children of Emotionally Inmature Parents.

And I hear it is sold now over 2 million copies and many people credit your book as the catalyst,

actually, for this surge in adult children going no contact.

Now, her upcoming book is How to Raise an Emotionally Mature Child.

So, Dr. Gibson, what is it that you were seeing in your own practice?

Yeah, as a psychotherapist, what I was seeing was people coming in,

not identifying the problem as being with their parents or their family members.

Usually it was some other kind of stress.

It could be work stress or friend stress, that kind of thing.

And then about three or four sessions in, they would start talking about what was going on with the family.

Sort of like their daily life stress.

And from there, we would begin to get a picture of this old underlying tension

that had been going on for a long time with the

But very few people early in the day would come in and say, I have a problem with my mother or I have a problem with my son.

They would come in with some other life stress, and then we would get to the family issue.

What I found- Is the family issue at the root of most things?

Well, I don't know if it's at the root or whether it just resonates with what's going on now.

It's very hard to tell.

But what I found was that the coping mechanisms

that they had learned to use with their parents

when their parents were either trying to control them or get them to do what they wanted

were being transferred to their current relationships or their work relationships.

Could you give us some factors that you believe make it necessary to protect somebody's emotional health by going no contact?

I mean, when you say to someone, or do you say to them, perhaps you should go no contact.

Yeah, I don't say that.

You don't say that.

I don't say that.

Let them decide for themselves.

Well, my job as a therapist is to help people...

Come to their own conclusions.

Well, not only come to their own conclusions, but I want them to be able to turn within and test out their own inner guidance.

In other words, get back in touch with their own feelings and how things affect them.

And lots of times when you've had a dominant parent, that ability to know what you actually feel think has been messed with okay

because it becomes an issue of you love your parent by agreeing with what they see

so actually no i'm all about helping people to understand the dynamics of the relationship how it's affecting them

and then they make the decision about what they want to

do well how do you you talk to them about your emotionally immature parent, and how do you determine whether a parent is emotionally immature?

Yeah.

I really stay away from those terms in psychotherapy, because I'm not there.

But you wrote a whole book about it.

I did write the book.

When I'm coming in, I'm coming to the lady.

I'm coming to the lady who wrote the book about emotionally immature parents, OK?

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Absolutely whether you mention it or not in our session.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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But when I'm talking with them in the session, I'm describing behavior.

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They're describing behavior

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and we're talking about the effect of those behaviors on them

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down the road you know once they've read the book yeah then we might use

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that shorthand about emotional immaturity but at the time

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we're just trying to understand their subjective experience of that parent

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okay i want to bring in nedra goldberg to wab nedra is a licensed therapist

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and a relationship expert known as the Boundary Queen on social media.

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And she's the author of the New York Times bestseller, Drama Free, a guide to managing unhealthy family relationships.

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And her upcoming book is The Balancing Act, Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself.

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Welcome.

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I see you nodding here and you're nodding for both of them.

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So what does that mean?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think it's such a thin line between like what's appropriate and what's gone too far because as therapists,

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we do see our clients suffering.

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And as Lindsay mentioned, I don't say like you need to leave this relationship, but I might think like,

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I wonder how you will feel if you did because there's so much pain for so long.

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But you wrote, you wrote that no contact is not the first option as much as a last resort.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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And when is it a last resort, do you think?

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I think when you've assessed whether the relationship is safe, if you can handle the consequences of actually leaving that relationship,

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it's our work to help our clients determine, is the relationship just toxic or is it annoying?

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Are these some behaviors we can live with with people?

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Is it possible for us to have less contact instead of no contact?

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Have we set expectations?

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Are they even clear about a problem?

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Because sometimes we haven't talked to people about the problems we're talking about in therapy or with our friends.

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And they need to know in order for us to have a better relationship with them.

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Thank you.

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thin line between A and B - A와 B 사이의 미세한 선 (예: "적절함과 지나침 사이의 미세한 선")
give way to - ~로 대체되다 (예: "전통적인 가족 관념이 개인 행복에 대한 강조로 대체됨")
greenlight - 승인하다, 허가하다 (예: "치료사가 단절을 허가하다")
exacerbated by - ~에 의해 악화되다 (예: "소셜 미디어에 의해 악화된 문제")
foreign concept - 낯선 개념 (예: "80년대에는 가족과의 단절이 낯선 개념이었다")

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쉐도잉 연습: Finding Peace Through Family Estrangement - 영상으로 영어 말하기 배우기

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