Shadowing Practice: People Really Hate New Dads With Depression - Learn English Speaking with Video
Creating lesson...
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What are the downsides of fatherhood for men?
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Well, we talked about already weight gain.
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We talked about testosterone changes.
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There are also increased vulnerability to mood disorders.
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So the prevalence of depression in new dads is about twice that of the general population.
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There's a lot of controversy about whether we call it postpartum depression in dads.
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I've observed this.
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In your opinion, do dads get postpartum depression?
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So in the book, I say I think perinatal depression is a better word.
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That just means around the birth of a baby.
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But to me, it's semantic.
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It doesn't matter that much whether we call it postpartum or perinatal.
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I think some people really are attached to the idea of postpartum really means having given birth.
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That's not really what the term means.
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It just means occurring after the birth of a baby.
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And the fact is that a lot of the risk factors for depression are shared by new moms and new dads.
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You've got stress, you've got disrupted sleep, you've got relationship conflict, you've got new responsibilities,
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identity crisis, hormone changes, brain changes.
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So even though you're not the person that's physically delivered an infant, you are still experiencing a lot of the same overlapping risks.
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What does postpartum mean?
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So it just means after the birth of a baby, the time period.
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Not after your birth of a baby.
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Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean that you- So it is a gender-neutral term.
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Yeah, it's a gender-neutral term.
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It doesn't necessarily mean that you birthed the baby.
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It just means the time period that falls after the birth of a baby. That said, I don't want to antagonize the moms who keep coming into
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my Instagram comments to get mad at me for talking about postpartum depression.
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Because I understand, you know, there is- What are they mad about?
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Are they mad about the fact that this is our term?
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like we want it to be it needs to be like paternal postpartum depression
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or so it needs some sort of a qualifier on it it sounds to me like
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and i saw a bunch of comments on instagram talking about
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the same thing uh it's not about this is a term
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that we care about it my best reading of it right
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and this is me trying to steel man it as best
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i can yeah the process of childbirth for a woman is so
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arduous and traumatic and scary that any man who appears to be flippant
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or dismissive or to kind of liken the challenge that he goes through to the one that the mum goes through,
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that is seen as being very callous and it doesn't fully appreciate or understand the sacrifice of a of a month.
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I think that's the best reading of it.
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Yeah.
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I think that's a good reading.
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I think another piece of that- That's me with my peaceful hat on.
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Yes.
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Where's your peaceful hat?
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You're missing that prop.
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You need a new prop.
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I would say that a lot of women legitimately feel like they've had to work very hard to get postpartum depression recognized.
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There's inadequate funding.
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There's inadequate attention paid to reproductive health and mood disorders in moms.
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And so if they're fighting to get access to treatment and to get education about their mental health,
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they feel Like, how can dads just sort of show up and make it all about them?
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That seems very unfair.
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And I'm totally sympathetic to that argument.
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I mean, I talked to a psychotherapist who works with new dads for my book, who's done a lot of advocacy for postpartum mental health in men.
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And she says a lot of the women's health advocates are just like, can't we have this one thing?
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Can't we have the postpartum period?
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This is ours.
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Right.
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I mean, my peaceful hat got taken off now.
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That is fucking stupid.
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but because what you're saying is, can we not not support men because we want women to have most of the attention?
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You go, well, hang on a second.
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Are you most concerned about owning this area of cognitive real estate?
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Like it's some sort of cultural appropriation by men, or do you care about the outcome of the kid and of the mom?
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Because if you don't treat the mental health of the father, how do you think the mom's going to feel?
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And how do you think the child's going to grow up?
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So what you're saying is you would rather be intellectually superior, but in the real world have negative side effects.
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Like that is the outcome.
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Whether that's what they know or what they mean doesn't matter.
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Like it's not my job to sugarcoat the fact
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that you trying to own some area of cognitive real estate is having a negative impact on men.
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That should be enough.
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But also on mom, if the men thing wasn't enough, and if that's not enough on baby too. So like
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not recognizing and if you did this in reverse right
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and this is true for a very very very long time
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there was all research was done on men it was just
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the male body standard inside of the medical industry no one
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said well this is cancer that's men's thing you go no this is not a fucking gendered issue
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so i mean i've got i got a video to show you i got a video from the times
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that you've probably seen that i think is very interesting and the video is interesting in the comments are way more interesting.
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Yeah, so it's this one.
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It's this one on TikTok, Jared.
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I had postnatal depression.
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Yes, dads can get it too.
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In 2021, when my daughter Aurelia was about a month old, my wife turned to me in bed one morning and she asked, how much do you love her?
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I froze.
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I kind of gritted my teeth and said, yeah, I really love her.
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But inside, I knew it wasn't there yet.
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I struggled to bond with my baby, felt disconnected and had growing shame that I was of not being the natural father I thought I would be.
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About six months into fatherhood, I opened up to my wife.
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I wanted to be a rock to Chessie who had had a complicated pregnancy.
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Eventually, I got therapy, but postnatal depression was never raised.
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It wasn't until Aurelia was a year old
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that I came across an article about men's PND that everything started to make sense.
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About 10% of new dads will experience depressive symptoms during the perinatal period and first year of a child's life.
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For me and my wife it was a eureka moment.
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Men are not routinely screened for PND, so many cases go undiagnosed I think the system is not changing quickly enough to offer support
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and spot the signs of depression in dads my bond with Aurelia is now incredible
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and with new understanding and support I hope I won't suffer from P&D again
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but I think new dads should know they might not have
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that emotional bond straight away all right let me pause it
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there Jared just look at the car just press on the
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comments on the right hand side for me I don't think
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I want to see the comment uh matt please i already
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had a long day how do i make this about myself
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thank you for telling us that's tom scarvo oh matt it's not the same thing this isn't depression it's discomfort
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and uncertainty postpartum depression is linked to the dramatic hormonal changes
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that happen after childbirth such as sudden drops in estrogen progesterone
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not sure how this affects the father time of irritation 1
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41 p.m playing on my device yes however calling it postnatal
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depression isn't the right phase i think he ultimately just didn't like all the attention in the relationship shifting to the baby.
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Please, I'm already annoyed today.
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How can I make this about me too?
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I feel left out.
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Is there poo in my AirPods?
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, I've been fighting in the comment sections like these for a while now.
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And, you know, people really come out of the woodwork to be frustrated with this kind of material.
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And I think there's a gatekeeping around perinatal depression that is unfortunate because mental health is a family system.
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You need the best possible team around a baby.
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And the best predictor actually of mom's mental health is the support that she gets from her partner.
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So if dad is not well, dad is not showing up mom's mental health either.
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I think the idea that this is a fixed pie or that it's a zero sum game, like there's a finite amount of resources
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that are going to go to a parent's mental health and they need to be directed solely to mom, I think is really limited.
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We need to be thinking about how do moms work together with dads to make sure
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that the baby is getting well cared for and that everybody's mental health needs are getting met.
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Having a zero-sum view of empathy is one of the dumbest, especially with something like this.
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It's just a guy going, I went through this really hard thing.
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And people going, no, you didn't.
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No, you didn't.
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Or I went through something that was way worse than that.
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Yeah, why are we gaslighting dads?
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And why are we pitting dads against moms?
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And my response to that is, if we want to have a society where men are stepping up as parents and they're fully participating in caretaking,
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they're waking up with the baby, they're doing the hard parts of care, we need to recognize that that's going to have mental health consequences.
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It's going to be taxing.
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It's going to be isolating.
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It's going to be draining.
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And if we really want men to participate, we have to respect that their mental health matters too.
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We can't guard it as though it's the sole domain of new moms
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because we want dads to act more like primary caregivers, but we're not willing to accept that they're going to have vulnerability tied to that.
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Bingo.
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Yeah.
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You're saying the same thing in two different breaths, saying different things in the same breath, which is we want dads to be fully involved, but we don't believe that they can have the negative outcomes
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that other people who've been fully involved for all of history have.
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Right.
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What's the rate of postnatal depression in women?
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It's a little higher in new moms than it is in new dads.
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I think it ranges across studies, but like 19 to 21 percent.
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It's about double.
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It's about 10 percent.
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Which is nearly the same as the change in brain, 1% to 2, 2.5%.
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And I think important context is that women have about twice the rate of anxiety and depression in the general population.
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So it tracks with that overall base rate.
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Wow, that's a spicy realization.
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It could just be an increase in whatever your predisposition was, and that dads are actually getting it at the same rate as moms.
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and now that we've got more involved caregiving, which is the primary enforcement mechanism for the change,
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I'm going to guess postpartum depression in fathers is mediated by the amount of caregiving that they do.
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Right, and that's the other thing.
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So you're telling me like, that's brutal.
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That any dad that's listening to this now knows the more that I care for my baby, the higher my likelihood of getting postnatal depression is.
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Jared, you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem?
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I don't consider a lot, Chris.
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Well, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing Co last night.
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But they're non-alcoholic.
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And that's not a problem?
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Sorry, man.
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I just kept chugging away for the regret to creep in.
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Never happened.
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See, most people, like Jared, don't want to change what they drink.
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They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off.
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And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co.
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They make the best NA brews on the planet it.
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You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s best-selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you, or, best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped direct to your door.
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Right now, get 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below
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or heading to athleticbrewing.com slash modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
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That's athleticbrewing.com slash modernwisdom at modernwisdom at checkout.
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Near beer, terms and conditions apply.
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Athletic Brewing Company, fit for all times.
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Bottoms up.
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Congratulations!
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You made it to the end of a clip, and the full-length episode is available right here.
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Go on.
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Vocabulary and speaking notes for this lesson
This B2 speaking lesson is built on the video “People Really Hate New Dads With Depression”. The speaker keeps coming back to these words: dad, depression, baby, postpartum, mom. This video has 184 sentences and 2159 words to shadow. The speech runs for 11:34. The speaker talks fast, about 187 words per minute, so expect linked and reduced sounds. 83% of the words are among the 3,000 most common in English; the rest is worth studying before you start.
Key vocabulary in this video
The 15 most advanced words in the video, with pronunciation and meaning:
| Word | Pronunciation | Meaning |
|---|---|---|
| postpartum adjective | /ˌpəʊstˈpɑː(ɹ)təm/ | After giving birth (often defined as within 30 days after childbirth). |
| postnatal adjective | /poʊstˈneɪtəl/ | After being born, of or pertaining to the period immediately after birth (of a baby). |
| perinatal adjective | Of or pertaining to the time around birth. | |
| caregiving noun | /ˈkeəɡɪvɪŋ/ | The provision of care such as assistance with activities of daily living (e.g., feeding, bathing, dressing, transportation, household administration), usually… |
| childbirth noun | /ˈt͡ʃaɪldˌbɝθ/ | The fact or action of giving birth to a child, as the culmination of pregnancy; the process by which it happens. |
| fatherhood noun | /ˈfɑːðəːˌhʊd/ | The state of being a father (biological father, stepfather, adoptive father, foster father; sometimes the biological father specifically). |
| checkout noun | /ˈt͡ʃɛkˌaʊt/ | The process of checking out of a hotel, or the latest time to vacate a room in one. |
| vulnerability noun | /ˌvʌln(ə)ɹəˈbɪlɪti/ | The state of being vulnerable; susceptibility to attack or injury, either physical or emotional; the state or condition of being weak or poorly defended. |
| prop noun | /pɹɑp/ | An object placed against or under another, to support it; anything that supports. |
| inadequate adjective | /ɪnˈædəkwɪt/ | Not adequate; lacking in quality or quantity required; insufficient for a purpose. |
| cognitive adjective | /ˈkɑɡ.nɪ.tɪv/ | Relating to the part of mental functions that deals with logic, as opposed to affective which deals with emotions. |
| antagonize verb | /ænˈtæɡ.ɪ.naɪz/ | To work against; to oppose (especially to incite a reaction). |
| appropriation noun | /əˌpɹoʊpɹiˈeɪʃən/ | An act or instance of appropriating. |
| arduous adjective | /ˈɑɹ.d͡ʒu.əs/ | Needing or using up much energy; testing powers of endurance. |
| callous adjective | /ˈkæləs/ | Emotionally hardened; unfeeling and indifferent to the suffering/feelings of others. |
Phrasal verbs you will hear
| Word | Meaning |
|---|---|
| go through verb | To travel from one end of something to the other. |
| show up verb | To appear, arrive, or attend, especially suddenly or erratically. |
| come across verb | To change sides; to cross over to work for the opposition. |
| get off verb | To move from being on top of (something) to not being on top of it. |
| grow up verb | To mature and become an adult. |
| leave out verb | To omit, to not include, to neglect to mention. |
| step up verb | To increase, augment, or advance, especially by one or more steps. |
| take off verb | To remove. |
Sentences worth repeating
Short, complete lines from the video that you can reuse in everyday conversation:
- In your opinion, do dads get postpartum depression?
- It doesn't necessarily mean that you birthed the baby.
- Where's your peaceful hat?
- Can't we have the postpartum period?
- How can I make this about me too?
Grammar in this video
The structures the speaker uses most, with the exact words from the video:
| Structure | In the video |
|---|---|
| Passive voice be + past participle — the focus is on what happens, not who does it | are also increased · are attached · are shared |
| Present perfect have/has + past participle — a past action that still matters now | I've observed · you've probably seen · who've been |
| Relative clauses who / which + clause — extra information about a person or thing | man who appears · breath, which is · caregiving, which is |
Pronunciation to watch
The speaker uses 52 contractions and reduced forms, such as don't, they're, you're. Say them the short way, as you hear them.
- The “th” sounds: childbirth /ˈt͡ʃaɪldˌbɝθ/, fatherhood /ˈfɑːðəːˌhʊd/, empathy /ˈɛmpəθi/, sympathetic /ˌsɪm.pəˈθɛt.ɪk/
- The “sh” and “zh” sounds: appropriation /əˌpɹoʊpɹiˈeɪʃən/, irritation /ˌɪɹ.ɪˈteɪ.ʃən/, predisposition /ˌpridɪspəˈzɪʃən/, sugarcoat /ˈʃʊɡɚˌkoʊt/, realization /ˌɹɪə.laɪˈzeɪ.ʃən/
- Long words — get the stress right: vulnerability /ˌvʌln(ə)ɹəˈbɪlɪti/, inadequate /ɪnˈædəkwɪt/, antagonize /ænˈtæɡ.ɪ.naɪz/, appropriation /əˌpɹoʊpɹiˈeɪʃən/, irritation /ˌɪɹ.ɪˈteɪ.ʃən/
How to practise with this video
- Listen to the whole video once without speaking and note the words you do not know.
- Start at 0.75× speed, shadow it sentence by sentence, then go back to normal speed once it feels easy.
- Record yourself and compare with the original, paying attention to words like postpartum, postnatal, perinatal.
What is the Shadowing Technique?
Shadowing is a science-backed language learning technique originally developed for professional interpreter training and popularized by polyglot Dr. Alexander Arguelles. The method is simple but powerful: you listen to native English audio and immediately repeat it out loud — like a shadow following the speaker with just a 1–2 second delay. Unlike passive listening or grammar drills, shadowing forces your brain and mouth muscles to simultaneously process and reproduce real speech patterns. Research shows it significantly improves pronunciation accuracy, intonation, rhythm, connected speech, listening comprehension, and speaking fluency — making it one of the most effective methods for IELTS Speaking preparation and real-world English communication.